Homosexuality Pt. 2

[twilighthush]

Since there was an overwhelming response to the -OVERTLY DISCRIMINATING- thread in regards to homosexuality -- which, surprisingly, was not removed by moderators despite its blatant prejudice -- I felt like starting one that would not go unnoticed, lost amongst the waves of discrimination and ignorance.

Below is a slightly edited editorial that I wrote a few years ago in regards to homosexuality, as a piece for gay pride.

Throughout history, homosexuals have been shunned from mainstream society. Always associated with an abnormal form of debauchery in the worst Biblical sense, homosexuals have been discriminated against for centuries. With the exception of ancient Greece and Rome, it was always considered unethical and highly sacrilegious for a man or a woman to copulate or fall in love with a member of his or her gender.

Thousands of years later, civilization has evolved into a technologically advanced, fast-paced society that still holds on to certain traditions and beliefs as tightly as a newborn baby clings to its first blanket. Even now, homosexuals are still not fully accepted as part of mainstream society. Sexual preference should not be a basis of discrimination in the world, nor should it be a reason as to why homosexuals are considered as being different than heterosexuals.

Why shouldn’t gays be considered as “normal” human beings? Why are they always discriminated against and treated in such horrible ways? Are gays not human, too? Do they not experience emotion with the same intimacy as a heterosexual? Growing up in a fiercely homophobic society, teenage homosexuals often become targeted for discrimination and fall victim to depression. Due to discrimination, homosexual adolescents are far more prone to suicide than their heterosexual counterparts. Chris Hamilton states in his article, “Homosexuality is a Factor in Teen Suicide”:

In 1989, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services released a report stating that up to a third of all teen suicides were committed by gay youths. The validity of these findings has been at the heart of heated debate ever since. (Hamilton)

In a country that promotes equality to all mankind, it is quite discouraging to read about teen suicides that occur because of their sexual orientation. It is the extreme sense of isolation and not being accepted by society that causes homosexual teenagers to contemplate suicide. In Hamilton’s article, he writes:

Beth Zemsky, director of the University's Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Programs Office, said the study is consistent with previous research. She also said our culture's intolerance of homosexuality, which can often be violent, leads many to take their own life.

"Suicide attempts are often caused by the stress of a homophobic society," said Zemsky. "The study is in line with the American Psychiatric Association. People are not killing themselves because they are gay, but because they are dealing with a society that discriminates." (Hamilton)

As a bisexual teenager who grew up in a homophobic environment, I learned that homosexuality was “wrong” and “dirty”, and that people who committed such “sins” would surely perish in the flames of Hell. That's a pretty debilitating concept to swallow at such a difficult time during puberty, when you're still trying to figure out your own personal identity in a world you don't quite understand yet.

To say that true love does not exist in homosexual relationships is like telling a fiercely devout Christian that there is no God. For most of my entire life, I believed that there was something wrong with me; I believed that being bisexual meant being abnormal. As I grew older, it became increasingly aware to me that while I was slightly different from most people the fact remained that I was a human being. Homosexuals are not any different from the rest of mankind.

Essentially, when it comes down to the cold, hard facts, we are all the same—regardless of sexual orientation. The majority of us are born with a head, two arms, two feet, a body, and the ability to feel the desire to love; to live; to be yourself.

Why be ashamed of who you are? Why be ashamed of who you love? Why hide away what you can't control? Why cut down the strings of your heart for the sake of society? For the sake of what governments and religions dictate?

It's okay to be gay.

It's about time society sees that.

[jayx8318x]

Since there was an overwhelming response to the -OVERTLY DISCRIMINATING- thread in regards to homosexuality -- which, surprisingly, was not removed by moderators despite its blatant prejudice


This site has thousands of members and about a dozen moderators. We can't read and approve every post that goes through. Honestly I did not read anything in that thread, so I have no idea what kind of abhorrent discrimination was going on. Either way, that is what the "Report this post" button at the bottom of every post is for. If any member had felt a strong urge to say something about it, they would have reported it. Unfortunately I guess it wasn't, as I did not receive anything.

Anyways, when you look at the demographic makeup of this forum, it doesn't really scream high intellectuals. Mostly it's kids still in HS. So what do you expect?

I don't have anything to say about the issue. It's like arguing about religion or abortion, there's always going to be great dissent from one side to the other.

I just came here to defend my moderators, and to warn you not to set high hopes for sensible opinions when it comes to topics like these.

Thanks ^^

[twilighthush]

I just came here to defend my moderators, and to warn you not to set high hopes for sensible opinions when it comes to topics like these.

I don't have high hopes for anything -- only that the post is read. That much is all I expect.

Apologies for my comment on the moderation issue; I was under the impression that moderators combed through almost every thread -- especially ones within the debate forum. (Or so it seemed from the sticky post at the top of the forum.)

If you want, I can edit that out. ^^;;

[laruku]

Really, I was quite amused that a new thread was started for this same issue. I really believe your post will still be read even if it was posted in the same thread and not starting a new one.

I have been visiting the other thread on and off and I really find that its just other people's opinions. It is not necessary to have low intelligence to be homophobic, and vice versa. You can be have an IQ of 180 and still think that homosexuals are the scum of the earth.

In all, I still feel that this post should have been posted in the same thread.

[twilighthush]

Really, I was quite amused that a new thread was started for this same issue. I really believe your post will still be read even if it was posted in the same thread and not starting a new one.

I have been visiting the other thread on and off and I really find that its just other people's opinions. It is not necessary to have low intelligence to be homophobic, and vice versa. You can be have an IQ of 180 and still think that homosexuals are the scum of the earth.

In all, I still feel that this post should have been posted in the same thread.

It's common knowledge that most people tend to skip posts, especially if they're lost in the middle of pages and pages worth of debate. ^o^v

It actually has nothing to do with low intelligence. It does, however, have everything to do with high prejudice and high ignorance. Ignorance and intelligence are not one and the same. ^-^

[jayx8318x]

Again I come in defense ha!
When I mentioned low intelligence, I did not intend it to mean stupid people are homophobic to put it bluntly. Because again, I did not read that thread, and don't know what arguments were going on.

I brought up intelligence because whether you agree with me or not, there's high correlation that those with less of it find it harder to articulate themselves, which in the end causes them to say things they did not mean, other people take it wrongly, argument insues, yadda yadda.

That is what I meant =)

*leaves quietly*

[Vicluva]

It's common knowledge that most people tend to skip posts, especially if they're lost in the middle of pages and pages worth of debate. ^o^v
There is a reason why other people have not started a new thread everytime they want their opinion to get noticed. Everyone's opinion is of value, and if you want people to read your posts and not 'skip' through it, then you might as well show some respect and read everyone elses.
I am not putting you down here :wink2:, I'm just saying this is like how you shouldn't start a new thread to introduce yourself when you first join the forum.

[funkaeh]

homosexuality. i still think its pretty much a sensitive issue around the globe. especially in the asian countries.

we've all been brought up with the thinking that a guy MUST go with a girl and we kind of ostracise those who do not fit into our "ideal" society. i think its just a matter of accepting the people who are different from us. and sometimes i think this homosexuality thing has something to do with the hormones too. and no one would enjoy PURPOSELY being different and love being set apart and looked down upon by others. so i think its hard for them to truely open up.

anyway, did you know that in The Sims, you can actually create gay couples and make them have children? my friend tried. i think i've been conforming with society's ideas and it did not even occur to me! its pretty cool!

however, as i am a Christian and the bible states clearly that homosexuality is condoned, i follow and believe in it. yups. i hope no one is offended by what i've said (:

[kjd-108]

if you misplace the word "homosexuality" with "murder"...it still fits in well.

no offense, just wanna point out a flaw from a bird's-eye-view. ;)

on topic, there's a difference between passionate and affectionate love. ^^; think 'bout it... ;) no time to put up a long post 'bout it. LOL! ^^;

[twilighthush]

jayx8318x: My response in reference to the intelligence quotient wasn't actually in response to you, but rather in response to laruku's response. <33~~ Sorry if there was a misunderstanding about that. ^o^v

Vicluva: If you have something of value to say, at least say something about the debate instead of trying to castigate me on a public forum when you obviously didn't read a single word of what I was trying to put out here in response to the blatant discrimination splashed across some 7 or 8 pages.

"This isn't how you should start a new thread to introduce yourself to the forum" certainly does not read like "This is what I think about the subject." It reads more like "I don't like your attitude and the way you do things" and certainly not in a way that came across as diplomatic either.

First of all, I never said that I don't read other's posts. So I really don't know where you get off from making that assumption. And also, I'm not afraid to admit that I wanted as many people to read that opinion as possible. If someone's gonna write something discriminatory and start a thread like that, I'm gonna write something to contradict it and start a thread myself. It's called standing up for what you believe in and showing as much pride while doing it as possible.

funkaeh: Homosexuality is a very taboo subject across the world, particularly in Asia. (Though, not in Thailand, where it's a cultural norm.)

XD;;; I actually did know about the gay peoples in The Sims. I have both The Sims 1&2 and I Have a lot of fun with that.

As for the Bible. Actually, darling. Did you know that King David and Jonathan were gay lovers, and so were Ruth and Esther? Try reading the Old Testament. It's one of the best sources of gay literature outside of Homer's The Iliad and Virgil's The Aeneid. :D!!! ( Reference here (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm) )

The Bible also says that it's okay to send your daughters to be raped; to have multiple wives and applaud misogynists who abuse, oppress, and cast women as the seed of all evil; and far more things that I don't particularly agree with. I'm sure since you believe The Bible is right, then you must believe all that too, right?

kjd-108: That is about the most ignorant argument I have ever seen in my entire life.

I wasn't aware that homosexuals killed other people 8D!!!!!!!!!!!! In fact, I thought we were the ones being killed! 8D!!!!!!!!!!! How ironic. 8,DDDDD.

[Vicluva]

twilighthush: I did have something to say about the topic, but like most other people, I posted it in the original thread. I felt like starting one that would not go unnoticed Doesn't that mean that the rest of the posts there will go unnoticed? What exactly makes your opinion more special than everyone else's? I did not, and do not, want to start a fight with you. And yes, I do not like your attitude, I was just telling you politely that you shouldn't start a new thread to voice your opinion, it's only what's stated in the rules of this forum.
To be frank, I do not see why you're putting me down about not reading your post when you obviously have not read the other thread, filled with 7-8 pages of people arguing for the rights of homosexuals in response to the first post.

[twilighthush]

Vicluva: I said what I said about you not offering anything of value because you had something to say, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the post when you could've easily just PMed me. The way you responded honestly did not look polite, no matter what angle you look at it. Simply because there IS that option of PMs. If it were polite, I wouldn't be insulted, would I? No.

You keep making assumptions that I haven't read the posts when that's hardly the case.

The logic is simple.

The very first post -- the thing that everyone will see and read, was one filled with harsh discrimination and prejudice. All that support? It's buried. It might not be seen by other people, even if it is seen by me. What I see doesn't matter -- I am part of the community that was discriminated against.

It's what other people see that matters, because we fight every day for our voices to be heard and for our rights. We fight every day to try and make people understand that we are not dirty, we are not immoral, we are not murderers, and we are not horrible.

And we fight every day because we refuse to be silenced. We demand to be heard.

So why not start another thread, where the very first post is one that completely contradicts that? When you are part of the GBLT community, this is what you do to fight against discrimination. You do it in a way that is LOUD, so you will be noticed.

We grew up in silence. We grew up in fear. We hid from everyone, especially from people who would want to condemn us. So why not speak out, as loud as possible, and garner as much attention as possible? If it contradicted the rules of the forum, wouldn't the moderator have asked me to remove it? Considering the fact that she responded twice within this thread and is very aware of its existence, there obviously isn't a problem with the post nor with the thread.

As for my opinion and why it's important -- frankly my opinion doesn't matter.

But my opinion as part of the GBLT community, and quite possibly one of -- if not the ONLY member in this entire forum who can lay claim to being GBLT and seeing that kind of discrimination -- does. Because I'm not just speaking for myself. I'm speaking for every single gay, bisexual, lesbian, and transgendered man and woman who has ever been discriminated against.

I'm sure an eloquent writer like you who is capable of understanding abstract themes because you write them yourself -- can understand that basic logic, can't you?

[Vicluva]

twilighthush: Perhaps your version of politeness and mine differ, but I do apologize if I have offended you, as I do agree with what you wrote in your first post. I got the general gist of what you were saying (There's nothing wrong with being homosexual) when I first posted here and I guess I assumed you hadn't read the other thread because that opinion had already been outlined several times.

Telling you not to start a new thread when the old one hasn't been closed is not a matter of logic, I guess I take too much notice of the rules.

[twilighthush]

Telling you not to start a new thread when the old one hasn't been closed is not a matter of logic, I guess I take too much notice of the rules.

Once more, I will reiterate -- the moderators are very much aware of this thread, and if there was a problem with its existence, it wouldn't be here right now.

I appreciate the support that is offered on that other post -- obviously any bit of support matters in a world filled with discrimination. However, I hope you can try and understand where I'm coming from as to why I wouldn't *just* want to comment on that thread -- which, by the way, I did do. Several times. >_>

[scarletwillow]

Ooooh ho ho ho. Fun debate.
I've read every post in this thread so far, so I'm caught up I suppose. Anyways, if anything,

I've really got no problems with homosexuality. I treat them like I do any other people; with spite and with disdain. I've known a few gay people; and if anything, I treat them better. One guy absolutely loved stroking my back; I brushed him off a few times. I don't enjoy it; I don't enjoy girls touching me either, if I have no taste for them.

Now, common perception that homosexuality is evil comes from ancient thinking. It was in the Bible. I did some research on the Bible for other reasons (I myself am no longer Christian, partly due to this research... I am now Buddhist), and the way they treated homosexuals is appalling. To make a paraphrase, they said that all homosexuals are not welcome in the house of God.

Then again, the Bible also says that those without testicles or a penis are not welcome, as are bastards (those who cannot find their father) even to their 10th generation of descendants. Of course, you're also not allowed to eat seafood, except for fish, because lobster and shrimp are unclean. Twilighthush has already mentioned the commanding of rape and murder by God to the Israelites, so I won't go there.

The question is, if someone you know is gay, does that adversely affect YOU? Does it endanger YOUR lifestyle? Does it destroy YOUR morals?
Why is drug usage more accepted than homosexuality?
Why is underage sex more accepted than homosexuality?
Because it is more enjoyable to the masses?

Again, it doesn't affect me. I'm not gay. I think Aaron Kwok is the hottest man alive, yes, but so?

[twilighthush]

scarletwillow - XD; You amuse me too much with some of the way you word things.

With spite and disdain, huh? <3<3<3

The question is, if someone you know is gay, does that adversely affect YOU? Does it endanger YOUR lifestyle? Does it destroy YOUR morals?
Why is drug usage more accepted than homosexuality?
Why is underage sex more accepted than homosexuality?
Because it is more enjoyable to the masses

There was someone on here who actually had the audacity to suggest that homosexuality equated with murder. Pfffffffffffffft. 8,D;;;

[scarletwillow]

Well, I'll have to correct you on that one.
What he suggested wasn't that homosexuality is as bad as murder; rather, it's that you can justify ANYTHING by conjuring up images of morality and self-judgement. I've used that very same argument to justify ritual suicide and cannibalism, but that argument does NOT apply to this debate, because murder is an unrequited act, and homosexuality as a doctrine is a single-person idea that expands to REQUITED love between more than one person.

Likewise, one may be expected to argue that many things can be mutual, such as mutual suicide or murder (which has happened recently). Those are not accepted by society either, but then again, they ARE arguable on the same grounds.
Of course, again, homosexuality is not QUITE as severe.

[judes]

i agree with the point that yue was trying to make. in order to make your point known on these forums, everybody should wait their turn, to say what they believe within the thread that's already set up. although i do agree with you, twilighthush, that the opinions expressed were extremely prejudiced and sometimes just plain ridiculous. i found myself arguing against people who were the same religion as me, which was strange. but anyway, going on.

As for the Bible. Actually, darling. Did you know that King David and Jonathan were gay lovers, and so were Ruth and Esther? Try reading the Old Testament. It's one of the best sources of gay literature outside of Homer's The Iliad and Virgil's The Aeneid. !!! ( Reference here )

The Bible also says that it's okay to send your daughters to be raped; to have multiple wives and applaud misogynists who abuse, oppress, and cast women as the seed of all evil; and far more things that I don't particularly agree with. I'm sure since you believe The Bible is right, then you must believe all that too, right?

mm. before you reference, dear, maybe you should reread your sources.
the sources say - ruth and naomi, not ruth and esther. esther was a young girl who became queen. and "Although this same-sex friendship appears to have been very close, there is no proof that it was a sexually active relationship."

your source only presents the possibility of homosexual relationships present between the couples you mentioned. it even says, clearly: "There is, however, no unmistakable evidence that they were sexually active relationships."

therefore, please don't present that as actual fact, only the possibility of.

---

it also bothers me when people go "the bible also says..." and lists off a bunch of "bad things" that the bible says without putting the situations in their original context. and since i believe the Bible is right, i also believe in the ideas presented by Jesus in the New Testament. which means, Jesus came to fulfill the Law, and that we should follow what he states in the New Testament, and that the histories that are present in the Old Testament are only present for us to learn from.

so i don't appreciate the insinuation of "i'm sure since you believe the bible is right..." therefore i, as a christian, believe in all of those situations as acceptable and correct anytime anywhere. although i do believe in the bible as the word of God, i don't believe in using those instances to justify support for any abhorrent actions that contradict what Jesus states as the new commandments.

that's all.

[scarletwillow]

Judes, let's not make this too much of a religious debate.
Twilighthush mentioned the Bible examples as a reason to keep religion OUT of the homosexuality debate, not to bring it in.

I could present you with MANY examples of corrupt principles, failed prophecies, and idiocy resulting from Christian Churches, but I'll keep it out of this thread. If you want to make a new thread, I'll bring it on hon :)

Oh, and as for this thread being a repeat.
Perhaps she could just rename the title to something like "Unbiased Homosexuality Debate."
After all, most of the replies in the original were by people who didn't even read the forum description: "Do not enter if you are not mature enough to handle serious discussions."

And if you question me, "aren't all arguers biased towards their own ends?"
There is a difference between argumentative bias and personal bias.

[judes]

i don't intend for this to become a religious debate. that's why i didn't mention any of the "often repeated" verses from the bible saying homosexuality is a sin.

only that when she mentioned her sources, i feel like i have an obligation to speak up regarding christianity when it comes close to bible-bashing. that's all i wanted to touch on, the points of her argument that bothered me. not BLASPHEMY YOU ARE GOING TO HELL or pointing fingers. not the corruption of organized religion, not the negative influences of the church. but the idea of a new thread for that sounds appealing.

i don't care, personally, about this being part of the old thread or as a new thread, since it's already started. maybe a warning sign as a reminder for mature discussions though. heh.

and i agree. those two forms of bias are different when it comes to a discussion. some parts of the old thread were really too much.

[beyOnd aLL reasOn]

okay...i have nothing against homosexuals. i think their sexual orientation and preference is their choice and that there really shouldn't be any turmoil over it.

as level headed as i hope i can become. i think that most of the "really no opinion, not pro not con" people do have some inborn prejudices that have been knocked into them by society. take, for example, teh usage of "gay" as a deragatory term. when people say "man that is so gay" it is quite offensive. and i must admit that sometimes i do say that but i try hard not too...but sometimes it just slips out.

these small prejudices in each person [well in a LOT of people] mount up to the overwhelming discrimination over homosexuals.

[twilighthush]

i don't care, personally, about this being part of the old thread or as a new thread, since it's already started. maybe a warning sign as a reminder for mature discussions though. heh.

You have just proven that you did not read a single thing on this thread past the point comment I made about the Bible in consideration of the fact that you did not take a single word I said about why I made this particular thread into a factor of your own argument.

Hypocrisy is not a nice flavor on anyone's palate.

As this is a debate about homosexuality, bringing organized religion into it isn't pertinent to what we are trying to discuss, so I'm going to start a new debate about Christianity in a little bit, after I get my sources back together and formulate a clear opening argument so we can continue this discussion there.

take, for example, teh usage of "gay" as a deragatory term. when people say "man that is so gay" it is quite offensive. and i must admit that sometimes i do say that but i try hard not too...but sometimes it just slips out.

these small prejudices in each person [well in a LOT of people] mount up to the overwhelming discrimination over homosexuals.

I agree, completely and wholeheartedly.

I have completely snapped on people that have dared to use the term 'faggot' in my presence in the past. It usually scares them to the point of where they don't repeat the mistake. Kind of amusing, actually. ;D

I personally do not ever use "gay" as a derogatory term. However, I have said "He is so GAY" quite often mostly because I actually mean the literal term. As in, "There is no way in hell he does not like men". XD!

I think in order to wipe out things like prejudice, we need to begin at the base level with derogatory terms. People can't tolerate anyone calling anyone else "nigger", so why should they be okay with "faggot"?

(I'm not even going to get into the irony of how black cultures have now adopted that same exact derogatory term into their everyday vocabulary in a modified way. I.E. 'nigga'.)

[scarletwillow]

Unfortunately, I am quite guilty of misusing the word gay.
My mouth is very liberal -_-;...

Not as a term of direct insult though. More in a joking way; yes, I know, it's still wrong.

I say "nigga please" or "hold up my nigga" once in a while X'D As a joke, obviously. Yes, it's a bad habit as well.

Although the use of negative racial epithets by the target race is nothing more than simple "pride". It's not just the blacks that do it; Asians do it as well, and I'm sure Hispanics have a similar "problem". If I can call my Chinese friend a Chink, we both know that it's a term of full endearment and nothing negative. It's all in the tone and how you use it.

I myself am not completely in favor of wiping out prejudice on all levels, but my thoughts on that are fairly deep, and certainly controversial ^_~

[judes]

You have just proven that you did not read a single thing on this thread past the point comment I made about the Bible in consideration of the fact that you did not take a single word I said about why I made this particular thread into a factor of your own argument.

Hypocrisy is not a nice flavor on anyone's palate.


huh? i'm sorry, i don't follow your first sentence at all. from my limited understanding what what you were trying to say in that sentence, let me respond:
i did read the entire thread actually, i only wanted to focus on that point about the bible.
i was only stating my point of view, and how from your source, you named a wrong person, that's all. not trying to bash you, not trying to say that you are a terrible person for having a particular sexual orientation.
you don't have to believe in my opinion, but i do have the right to say what i wish to say.
if there is a flaw in a certain argument, then it will be pointed out. if there is a flaw in my argument, please feel free to point it out also.

i'm only saying that in my perspective, the bible is not the gay literature that you claim it is. that's all.

i don't understand how i'm being hypocritical here, dear. and i'm pulling religion out of this thread, as seen below.

As this is a debate about homosexuality, bringing organized religion into it isn't pertinent to what we are trying to discuss, so I'm going to start a new debate about Christianity in a little bit, after I get my sources back together and formulate a clear opening argument so we can continue this discussion there.

and THAT is why i started an entire new thread for discussion of organized religion, and if you want to debate christianity, be my guest.
scarletwillow pointed that out after i made my post.
although i don't believe that you can actually debate homosexuality without mentioning the predominance of christian thinking in everyday life, but i'll leave the theological discussion for the other thread.

is that ok?
or is that contrary to the idea of opening up this thread as a support group of some sorts and that anybody who supports christian teaching is out of here? because that's the vibe i'm getting from this.

[hisashiluv14]

Going a little bit off-topic here, but Willy, that thing you said about you and your friends calling each other chink: Most Singaporean teens aren't informed enough to know what it means, but for those that do, I still get pissed off when they use it. I know this guy who uses it; he's Chinese, but a banana. You know, one of those morons who can't speak Chinese for nuts (like myself)? So whenever he says 'chink', I'd be like, "Yeah, what a genius, playing directly into the hands of the damn ang mohs."

I guess it's different over here. The general trend is something like this: The English-speaking Chinese, like 99.999% of my friends, generally have some silly superiority complex over Chinese-speaking Chinese. And so, when the guy I mentioned in the above paragraph uses the word 'chink', I tend to take offence because he obviously means it in a derogatory fashion. Which is damn stupid, if you think about it, because the dumb bugger is Chinese, and besides, his English sucks like hell anyway. He spells 'psycho' as 'phyco', for crying out loud. What a genius.

Right, anyway, on the subject of dumb idiots using the word 'gay' as a substitute for 'stupid': Honestly, I think it's a phenomenon of the new millennium or something. I never came across it during the 1998-2000 period; it was only until recently that I started noticing its constant usage in blogs and forums and things along those lines.

Well, I guess it further goes to show how incredibly stupid the human race is, and how we should all commit mass suicide before a natural disaster that is inevitable wipes out everyone. But let's not delve into that right now. :-)

[indigo]

Hmmm, I'm neutral about homosexuality, I have friends who are gays and there's absolutely nothing wrong about it. It's just their preference, they prefer to admire people of the same gender as them, it's their choice. Everyone keeps emphasizing on freedom now, why can't these people be free as to choose who to be with? A man does not necessarily need to be with a woman, a woman-woman/man-man relationship isn't unhealthy or wrong.

My lecturer gave an interesting fact on homosexuality.
He said the reason why a person is gay might be due to the hormonal levels during the mother's pregnancy. There were scientists who conducted a research and they found that these homosexuals' mothers consumed something which caused the hormonal levels to be exceptionally low, and it turned out that their most of their kids were homosexuals.

I didn't buy into this, but I just wish to highlight that being gay is nobody's fault and I hope that society will just stop discriminating against them. :-)

Well, I guess it further goes to show how incredibly stupid the human race is, and how we should all commit mass suicide before a natural disaster that is inevitable wipes out everyone. But let's not delve into that right now.

*claps* Agree.
I think Man is the most evil of all things and deserves to be punished for what they did, spoiling and exploiting the Earth. Let's all be green. :-)

Just my opinion.

[scarletwillow]

Quick post because I have to go to class (I may come back and edit this into something longer later)...

Yelen, about your final paragraph...
You don't wanna know how I feel about that -_-
Hint: I wouldn't mind doing it myself if I had the chance <3

[twilighthush]

huh? i'm sorry, i don't follow your first sentence at all. from my limited understanding what what you were trying to say in that sentence, let me respond:
i did read the entire thread actually, i only wanted to focus on that point about the bible.

If you read the entire thread, then you should know exactly why this second thread was created. You told me that I should have paid more attention to my reference. You should've paid more attention the thread.

Therein lies hypocrisy. Nice, isn't it?

Maybe I'm just too cryptic. ;) Whatever.

Quite frankly, in my honest opinon, every single religious text is spotted with gay references. But that's just through the extensive studies that I've done for coursework at college, so what do I know, right?

although i don't believe that you can actually debate homosexuality without mentioning the predominance of christian thinking in everyday life, but i'll leave the theological discussion for the other thread.

You can't. But you can, however, leave out the excessive amounts of indirect preaching in a debate.

or is that contrary to the idea of opening up this thread as a support group of some sorts and that anybody who supports christian teaching is out of here? because that's the vibe i'm getting from this.

There's nothing wrong with people who support Christian teachings. I welcome them to comment. But anyone who's audacious enough to come on here and try to force those teachings without us asking about them -- can kindly leave this thread.

My father was a pastor. Born Again Christianity. I studied this religion for about fifteen years of my life. And I'm talking hardcore studying. I know more about the Bible than any other work of literature out there, barring The Iliad and The Aenied (two more religious texts from the past that I am quite well versed in).

To talk about Christianity is one thing. To talk about Christanity's beliefs are another. The point of mentioning Christianity and the Bible, quite frankly, was not about catalyzing a discussion about Christian beliefs, morals, values and teachings. It was about the contradictions within the Bible.

You ended up giving us a taste of why Christians must love Jesus and follow Jesus and how the things I mentioned in the Bible didn't apply because Jesus changed the world. I hate to break it to you, but the New Testament is filled with references as gay as the ones in the Old. Not to mention, Jesus contradicts himself at least fifty times.

By the way. You probably aren't aware that the first Holy Roman caesar, Constantine, destroyed hundreds of books that should have been included in the Bible because he didn't like it centuries ago. So books that should have been pertinent to the religion were eradicated simply because Caesar didn't agree with it.

You also probably have never read the Seven Dead Sea Scrolls or the other Books that WERE salvaged that should've been part of the Bible, but weren't included because of Constantine.

And don't worry. I'm hunting up those research papers that prove it right now since I know you're going to ask where my proof is. Just give a little bit of time and I'll have them. It's been a while since I've had to look at this material.

[judes]

First of all, I never said that I don't read other's posts. So I really don't know where you get off from making that assumption. And also, I'm not afraid to admit that I wanted as many people to read that opinion as possible. If someone's gonna write something discriminatory and start a thread like that, I'm gonna write something to contradict it and start a thread myself. It's called standing up for what you believe in and showing as much pride while doing it as possible.

When Yue brought up the point about you starting a new thread when there's already a thread in place, this is how you responded. I didn't respond in a discriminatory way, I didn't say anything of prejudice about homosexuality, I merely pointed out something that you stated in your reference.

I am standing up for what I believe in, and immediately, you call me a hypocrite.

Maybe you have a perfect idea in your head about why this thread was created, but this is a public forum, people can state their own opinions. There's no "concrete rule" about what you can or cannot say in a discussion, that would make it an one-sided lecture.

Maybe my perspective is different from yours, but I don't see why you should start name calling. I am proud of my beliefs, just as you are standing up for yourself, but there's a difference between standing up for yourself and getting the word out, than being offensive because someone doesn't agree with your opinions.

And I believe I did not mention anything from the bible against homosexuality, like the often quoted verses of Paul or within laws of the Old Testament. I only looked at your sources, and proceeded from there. You referenced them, I responded, it's what's good about the internet.

Maybe I didn't take as many courses in college as you regarding the bible, but there are always two sides to every issue. There are many ways to interpret history. You make up your own mind, I make up mine.

And I am actually quite aware of Constantine and his hand in making Christianity wide spread, but also changing the original teachings of Jesus into Catholicism. I am also aware of other books that were written that may have been in the bible, but there were also other reasons they were taken out instead of just throwing them away randomnly. The book The Case For Christ is a good introduction to the validity of the bible.

I can acknowledge your "proof", but no proof is certain without concrete solid evidence.
I for one, do not have proof that certain books are supposed to be in or out of the bible. And neither do you.

[funkaeh]

twilighthush:
the bible did not say it was ok but God permitted that Abraham, Isaac etc etc to have multiple wives- if not we would not be here today eh? im with Judes on this. the bible did not permit gays! i believe in the all the bible says. but i think we read too much into words sometimes. and english is a tricky language.

[scarletwillow]

The fact that it happened means that God permitted it... unless you are saying God does not have the power to control it.

[funkaeh]

you expect one woman to give birth to how many babies >__< guiness world record also not as many as 100. if 1 woman like current times 3 babies then very hard to have so many of us. ehh, no offence :\

[scarletwillow]

you expect one woman to give birth to how many babies >__< guiness world record also not as many as 100. if 1 woman like current times 3 babies then very hard to have so many of us. ehh, no offence :\

You have failed to answer to my challange. Instead, you attempted to circumvent it by justifying it otherwise. That is the greatest fault with you religious people.
Tell me, if Moses could part the Red Sea with God's grace, a woman could not have born a hundred children?

I ask you again.
Are you saying that God does not have the power to control it?

[twilighthush]

I thought we were going to be keeping religion out of this thread?

Jeez, I leave for a week and come back to this. x_x;

[funkaeh]

God only set the rule somewhere later in the old testament.
God HAS the power to control it.
and if you don't believe, please do not condemn other people who have the faith you do not.
and you say "greatest fault with you religious people".
are you in any way perfect?
you're reading too much and challenging a religion, at the same time offending people.
and you did not want to make this a religious discussion. :\

[scarletwillow]

This thread was idle until you posted.
You posted about religion, so you brought it back in.
I was perfectly ready to argue about homosexuality.

Hon, I don't respect anyone I don't believe has any logic.
I myself, like Twilight Hush, has had close contact with Christians (her father, me myself a few years ago).

Am I in any way perfect? The answer to that is no.
But do I believe in perfection? The answer to that is also no.

Why are you being offended?
If you truly believed in your religion you wouldn't be offended, because you'd have no shadow of a doubt that you're right and God is behind you.

Only those who can be rocked in their foundations quiver like this.

[twilighthush]

Why are you being offended?
If you truly believed in your religion you wouldn't be offended, because you'd have no shadow of a doubt that you're right and God is behind you.

Only those who can be rocked in their foundations quiver like this.

Couldn't have said it better myself. ;)
Great minds think alike. <3 <3 <3

[funkaeh]

Why are you being offended?
If you truly believed in your religion you wouldn't be offended, because you'd have no shadow of a doubt that you're right and God is behind you.

Only those who can be rocked in their foundations quiver like this.

because if you realise, the words you use are loaded. as in you disregard other peoples feelings and opinion. being offended isn't quivering.

offend: to make someone upset
quiver: to shake slightly

i believed in my religion and i am offended by what you say cause you have shrugged it off (fine by me) but you also questioned everything else. and i replied with no offence. i don't have to prove to you i have the faith (: so there. no offence.

[scarletwillow]

Don't prove it to me.
Prove it to yourself.

I know the words I use are loaded.
That's the point of them.
Who can carry a debate without loaded words? Who is affected by a debate without loaded words?

If I, by being so secular, am offending your religious self, do you not consider that by you being religious, you are offending my secular self?
If I wear a shirt that says "Jesus lied", would you be offended?
But all those shirts that say "Darwin lied", you do not think offends us?

In fact, it doesn't offend us. Because we know the truth, and we believe it, and we laugh at incompetence and sluggishness in seeing the truth.

[junnleenfaah]

i'm not exactly here to comment on the topic because i just rather not get into it, but you guys are getting off topic. try to stay on the original topic, otherwise the moderators might shut this thread down =/ just trying to give you guys a heads up

[funkaeh]

Don't prove it to me.
Prove it to yourself.

I know the words I use are loaded.
That's the point of them.
Who can carry a debate without loaded words? Who is affected by a debate without loaded words?

If I, by being so secular, am offending your religious self, do you not consider that by you being religious, you are offending my secular self?
If I wear a shirt that says "Jesus lied", would you be offended?
But all those shirts that say "Darwin lied", you do not think offends us?

In fact, it doesn't offend us. Because we know the truth, and we believe it, and we laugh at incompetence and sluggishness in seeing the truth.
im not proving things to you. maybe we should just private message each other and sprare other people from looking at this ^^ a debate doesn't have to make use of loaded words. and i didn't mean to spark a debate i just stated an opinion and you started all the question thing. i haven't used any loaded words to in anyway insult you. and i always put "no offence". the tone in my message and yours is very different too. if i saw that shirt, i'd laugh. seriously (: haha yes! so lets cool it? i guess we both made mistakes in the discussion. no offence.

haha ok back to the topic on homosexuality >__< since someone commented that we have long long ago digressed :\ if your friend opened up to you and confessed that he/she was a homosexual, would you still be a friend or would you unknowingly keep a distance? cause i was from a girl's school and i know some people who had boyfriends before than became a lesbian and then had a boyfriend again! O_O! is there such a phase thing or are they just doing it just to attract attention?

[panda_shine]

yes.. please stay back on topic :wink2: :wink2:

Hmm actually I personalyl don't have an opinion on sexuality. Well I do but I don't think I can take a side.. on whether I agree with it or not. All I do know is that I will respect one's sexuality regardless of whether they are straight or homosexual.


if your friend opened up to you and confessed that he/she was a homosexual, would you still be a friend or would you unknowingly keep a distance? cause i was from a girl's school and i know some people who had boyfriends before than became a lesbian and then had a boyfriend again! O_O! is there such a phase thing or are they just doing it just to attract attention?


Yup I would still be friends with that person. Actually something like this happened to me like twice.

[scarletwillow]

im not proving things to you. maybe we should just private message each other and sprare other people from looking at this ^^ a debate doesn't have to make use of loaded words. and i didn't mean to spark a debate i just stated an opinion and you started all the question thing. i haven't used any loaded words to in anyway insult you. and i always put "no offence". the tone in my message and yours is very different too. if i saw that shirt, i'd laugh. seriously (: haha yes! so lets cool it? i guess we both made mistakes in the discussion. no offence.

haha ok back to the topic on homosexuality >__< since someone commented that we have long long ago digressed :\ if your friend opened up to you and confessed that he/she was a homosexual, would you still be a friend or would you unknowingly keep a distance? cause i was from a girl's school and i know some people who had boyfriends before than became a lesbian and then had a boyfriend again! O_O! is there such a phase thing or are they just doing it just to attract attention?

Thanks for getting back on topic... I appreciate it ^_^

Well, quite honestly...
I have known at least one gay person in my life.
None of my close friends have been gay.
I KNOW that if one of my friends revealed to me that he was gay, I would not view him any differently than before. If he has always been gay, and I'd always accepted him, why change things? Sexual orientation is NOT a reason to lose a friendship, or anything to criticize someone over!!!

Last year, there was a certain gay person at my school. I did NOT like him. Not because he was gay, but because he absolutely adored me to a point that I couldn't tolerate him. He touched me allll the time. As I mentioned before, I treat everyone with scorn equally. I did not feel comfortable about him touching me--I feel just as uncomfortable about boys touching me as I feel uncomfortable about girls touching me.

I am not gender biased in that respect.

[funkaeh]

Sexual orientation is NOT a reason to lose a friendship, or anything to criticize someone over!!!
scarletwillow, welcome! :D i couldn't agree more with you. somehow i think sometimes its the genetics and i think some people seriously cannot help it if they have the hots for people of the same sex. :\ i've known some pretty close friends who are homosexuals but we're still as close as before. although i got a shock when they just told me. :x
maybe that guy was interested in you. i think that would be scary. as in if some homosexual is interested in you. :\ its fine to be friends but when that happens i think i might just freak out.

[linny]

a debate doesn't have to make use of loaded words. and i didn't mean to spark a debate i just stated an opinion and you started all the question thing.There is no point to a debate if it isn't filled with loaded words. It is possible to have a debate without loaded words, but what would be the point?

Anyway, homosexuality. I think people should respect the sexual orientation of people. Agree or diagree with homosexuality personally, there is a basic respect that everyone should have for each other. If a man decides he wants to spend his life with another man, that is his right and people should respect that.

And if one of my friends told me he or she was gay, I would not treat him or her differently. The person hasn't changed; why should I treat him/her differently? As far as if that person ended up liking me... well, then it's just like how I'd treat any crush liking me... with lots and lots of distance and weariness. Oo

[mysadworld]

i am very much against homosexual..i think most people are homosexual because they are deprived of the real actual love...there's a need for these people's parents to change their children's mindset..i feel so sorry for these people actually...=(

[laruku]

i think most people are homosexual because they are deprived of the real actual love
What is love? How do you define "real actual love"? How do you know that what homosexuals have is NOT real love and what heterosexuals have are REAL love?

Is beating up your wife real love?
Is having extramarital affairs real love?
Is leaving your family behind real love?

All these are what we see everyday in the HETEROSEXUAL world. Is that real love then?

If homosexual couples treat each other with respect and adoration, is that real love?
If they think about the other person's feelings before acting, is that real love?
If they remain monogamous, is that real love?

Dictionary.com states that love is

# A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.

# A feeling of intense desire and attraction toward a person with whom one is disposed to make a pair; the emotion of sex and romance.
1. Sexual passion.
2. Sexual intercourse.
3. A love affair.

# An intense emotional attachment, as for a pet or treasured object.

# A person who is the object of deep or intense affection or attraction; beloved. Often used as a term of endearment.
Nothing in the explanation says that love can only exist between couples of differnt sexes. If the couple happens to be of the same sex, why is that considered NOT real love?

I think you have a distorted view of the world. You need to grow up and see it as it really is. I feel sorry for you really, if you really think that parents have the ability to change mindsets. Have YOU ever changed YOUR mindset because YOUR PARENTS told you to? If so, I wonder if you can actually think for yourself.

[kasic_fantasy]

i agree with laruku.

see even human and animals can develope their bond between them...not to mention humans.

a boy and a girl has love in between them and their have feelings too. and that happens to a guy and a guy or a woman and a woman.

there are certain things that we cant depend on our parents. they are from the previous generations and wheares we are in the new one. there are certain things we really must have our own set of thinkings. character, mindset etc...

plus...parents may be the one who brought you life and onto this world but sad to say most things in your life is control by you yourself not them.

i'm not trying to turn the kids here into rebellious people...dont misunderstood me :wink2:

[twilighthush]

laruku -- You could not have possibly been more articulate in your response and I thank you, wholeheartedly, for this.

You did leave out one thing though.

RAPE. A common occurance that happens in heterosexual relationships. One that does not happen nearly as much in homosexual relationships -- though, I won't deny that it DOES still happen. It simply doesn't happen on such a broad scale.

mysadworld -- Considering the fact that you are sixteen years old and quite possibly have never experienced the phenomenon known as true love, I'll cut you some slack on that end. Because sweetheart, you don't have any idea what the hell you're talking about. 8,D

The most passionate, consuming love I have ever experienced in my entire life was with another woman. NOT WITH A MAN. And yes. I'm a woman. Considering the fact that it's been two years since we've broken up and I -STILL- have feelings for her, I'd say that she's quite possibly the one person that I loved the most in my entire life, which is considerably longer than yours.

And just to let you know. It's not a mindset. It's a part of who we are. It'd be like cutting off an arm, or in this case, ripping out the valves and chambers of the right ventricle of your heart.

Would you do that? Tear your way into your chest, crack open your ribcage, and carve half your heart out, just because you parents told you to? Would you?

Yeah.
Didn't think so.

[freebird_brown]

i don't have anything against homosexuals. i don't think that people should treat them differently or judge them. i know a guy who's homosexual and he's pretty cool. i can't say that i approve of their lifestyle or anything. but they don't deserve the treatment that a lot of them get.
twilighthush, your passion for your argument is inspiring... but i don't think ur attitude is helping you sell ur opinions. rip me on this, watever.

[judes]

if your friend opened up to you and confessed that he/she was a homosexual, would you still be a friend or would you unknowingly keep a distance?

i am sad that this question even needs to be asked.
a person's sexual orientation doesn't have anything to do with being friends with them.

i had two close friends tell me they were gay, and one extremely close friend tell me that he was bi, this is all in this year. i know a total of seven homosexual or bisexual people, four of them close friends.

nothing changed. it's just fun to talk about cute boys with another boy.
my personal opinions about homosexuality have nothing to do with my friendship with them. trying to "convert" them or "change" them isn't what friendship is about.

cause i was from a girl's school and i know some people who had boyfriends before than became a lesbian and then had a boyfriend again! O_O! is there such a phase thing or are they just doing it just to attract attention?

this is what i don't understand.
i've known girls who say they are lesbians just to attract boys. and make out with girls so boys think it's "hot".

so here's my question, can a person actually be bisexual?
do you think it's only about who you love and not what gender they are?

[caiyun]

i think it's really okay if you're gay or lesbian. but.. (yea, unfortunately there's a but) when i see 2 guyz holding hands, i feel - and i don't know why - uncomfortable. while seeing girls holding hands is already "normal" for me.

i actually don't really understand why lesbian couples are more accepted than gay couples anyway.

well, i don't have any friends who have confessed that they are homosexual or bi, which means i don't know anyone who is. but if, i definitely would "support" him/her. but to be honest, i can't really imagine it.

i don't know.. in general i think it's really okay to be gay or something, i really think it is. everyone should be allowed to love a person, whether it's a he or a she. but my inner self can't really cope with the thought of 2 guyz making out with eachother. i really don't know why. does it mean, that in real, i can't accept homosexuals?? can someone tell me?! o_O i do sound stupid now, don't i?!

[Ch3l3nk]

i have gay friends (literally gay) and they are FINE! they are nice.. nicer than most 'normal' guys should i say.. i have no problem with being their friends... any person from any sexuality, race and whatever can be my friends as long as they have the right attitude.. sexuality does not effect the way i treat people and it shouldn't effect they way YOU treat people too!.. and i know that there are a lot of others who might not like gay people so much... but it's personal opinions.. no matter how much you argue there will always be two sides to this problem... so it's really the matter of how u view life and how you were brought up by your parents & your environment.. and no, i dont think one's intelligence guarantees that they will accept others' 'abnormal' sexuality

Everyone is equal.. if they dont bother me.. i have NO right to bother them.. it's mean to pick on people who never really pick on us.. :rasp:

[hisashiluv14]

it's just fun to talk about cute boys with another boy.

Oh I so know what you mean. I worked for nine days at some fashion boutique and one of the salesgirls there is a gay guy (we all refer to her as a 'she' anyway). I never got close enough to her to talk about cute guys with her, but she would whine to me about the ugly uniform we all have to wear and how it destroys her outfits and everything. And on my first day, she was the nicest and the warmest towards me. Oh, and during Chinese New Year's Eve, she gave everyone a $20 hongbao even though she's Malay.

Hmm, I think I've kinda digressed. Right.

Caiyun: I think maybe you can't accept homosexuals, but you can tolerate them. There is a difference between accepting and tolerating; the latter just means that you wouldn't stone them to death just because they're homosexuals. In my book, not accepting is okay. I don't accept Christianity, but I have Christians friends and all is dandy. But intolerance is just...well, simply put, wrong. So, I think you're okay. :-)

[Yue Anne]

so here's my question, can a person actually be bisexual?
do you think it's only about who you love and not what gender they are?

yes..a person can be bisexual..n oh yeah I'm from a girl school too..so i have seen loads of lesbians here in my school making out too...hmmmm :dry:

anyway my friend...she is really hot!... there was once i asked her ' are u a lesbian?'..n she answered 'no..i'm not...i'm bisexual',,,, i was actually laughing whn she answered tht! personally...whnever u are in love...gender is not that important...whn the 2 parties feel the same way..everyting works...n thts whn the relationship starts...some people really just can't accept them...i can understand why... but i wil treat them as my friends but of course i will not be involved... oh the other reason it might be the girls arent growing up yet...like what my school principal said...'desperate for love'....is bit harsh for her to say tht anyway..ehhehe :shifty:

n i have another fren who became lesbian because of her past..i think is because of her boyfriends betrayed her or something..i m not sure...is just a schoolmate of mine....

[funkaeh]

i am sad that this question even needs to be asked.
a person's sexual orientation doesn't have anything to do with being friends with them.

so here's my question, can a person actually be bisexual?
do you think it's only about who you love and not what gender they are?

i ask that question for everyone's opinion (: not everyone is so open. some may be homo-phobic for all you know. and i think people can be bisexual- they are attracted to people from both sexes. and i believe that you cannot discriminate them for this like the way we cannot discriminate gays. i think its about who you love. cause i think everyone has loved someone/something at some point in time. but the thing is most people when they talk about love for someone of the same gender, its platonic and not romantic love. this is what i think (: yups.

[twilighthush]

but the thing is most people when they talk about love for someone of the same gender, its platonic and not romantic love. this is what i think (: yups.

Sorry, what you're thinking is wrong. Completely. I'm not even disagreeing with you here. Because disagreeing with someone's opinion is one thing. Telling them they're wrong is another. And I'm telling you that you're wrong.

Because when I talk about how I loved my ex-lover, or in this case, my ex-girlfriend, there is not a single shred or nuance of platonic in that kind of love. It's all romance, all heart, all truth, all soul. I imbibed and assimilated every fragment of her being, of her heart, and of her mind, and of her love. And there was nothing platonic about it at all.

None. Whatsoever.

It was romance. Pure, unbridled, romance.

Passion at its finest.

And to this day, two and a half years after the fact, I can still say that.

[freebird_brown]

ya... notice funkaeh said... MOST PEOPLE... we all get the point that you and ur ex gf were madly in love. funkaeh's point is that people have a hard time grasping the concept of loving osmeone of the same gender becuase MOST PEOPLE think of lovin someone of the same sex as platonic love

[twilighthush]

ya... notice funkaeh said... MOST PEOPLE... we all get the point that you and ur ex gf were madly in love. funkaeh's point is that people have a hard time grasping the concept of loving osmeone of the same gender becuase MOST PEOPLE think of lovin someone of the same sex as platonic love

Duly noted. I posted that at like, 5AM on no sleep. T_T;\

Apologies.

[trishee]

This isnt exactly a problem, but Id like to bring it up. Ive had this guy friend since the 4th grade and he's been labeled 'gay' since the 1st grade or something. He doesnt go all out and drools for every other guy that passes by but does dress to impress. Ive always tried to be supportive of him because high school can be really tough. Everyone who knows him knows about this.

Now I have this other friend. He is a guy too and I just became close to him just recently. I never knew he had a thing for guys. Now we talk about cute boys all the time. (we have different types you see, he raves about innocent looking boys, and I rave about Jay :D ) The problem is that the fact that he likes boys is emerging to the rest of the world and I am worried. People hear things and they can be really mean. His guy friends try to change him, but I tell him its his choice, not theirs.

Now the thing that confuses me is that...the two guys im closest to both happen to like the same gender. Is it a coincidence? Or is the problem with me? I cant make normal guy friends or what? I have guy friends but they havent been as close to me as these two. I guess its just a game of chance. Whats your take?

[twilighthush]

trishee -- Well, you know what they say. Gay guys make the best "girl"friends. ^_~ Or something like that. Ever watch Will & Grace? XD;;

[Yue Anne]

i have a question here...ops not really a question actually...need help here...well my friend is currently involved with this relationship, however her good friend doesnt approve such relationship.
Earlier my friend had actually promised her tht she will not involved but she did anyway..n thus her good friend is very furious with her and they are not in the talking term...my friend is pretty upset and didn't know what to do...

hmm any ideas?

[twilighthush]

i have a question here...ops not really a question actually...need help here...well my friend is currently involved with this relationship, however her good friend doesnt approve such relationship.
Earlier my friend had actually promised her tht she will not involved but she did anyway..n thus her good friend is very furious with her and they are not in the talking term...my friend is pretty upset and didn't know what to do...

hmm any ideas?

If a friend is so willing to interfere with your heart, then they are not a friend. It's that simple.

[judes]

Now the thing that confuses me is that...the two guys im closest to both happen to like the same gender. Is it a coincidence? Or is the problem with me? I cant make normal guy friends or what? I have guy friends but they havent been as close to me as these two. I guess its just a game of chance. Whats your take?

I don't think your friends have any influences on your sexuality.
Maybe being friends with gay people will influence your own questioning of your sexuality, and most of the time, I think similar people attract and become friends with similar people, but I doubt it means that you are straight out homosexual just because you're friends with gay guys.

I think it's actually a good thing that your friends feel comfortable coming out to you.
I know I like boys and I can't imagine myself ever loving a girl in a romantic way, but I have many friends who told me that they were gay. And all I can say is, I'm happy that they're comfortable enough with me to tell me about their feelings and that important aspect of themselves.

Most of the time, I'm just sad that their chances of finding true love are significantly lessened because of their sexual orientation. But it doesn't mean I'll stop supporting them and cheering them on.

[seaweedpatchkid]

I love Will and Grace. It's a great show. When I'm bored I always go to my cousin and say "I want a Will."

Anyways, that's not the point of this thread.

HOMOSEXUALITY.

Wow, that word stirs up more controversy than a lot of things. I've been wanting to post here for a long time, but I knew that it was a controversial topic so I avoided. It is, however, one of my favorite topics to discuss because I become enlightened whenever someone gives me some good views.

I'm always up for that!






So, gay and lesbian. Are we talking about just homosexual relationships or the whole deal with marriage and all? I'll discuss both.

I find homosexuality okay. I mean, I'm not homosexual and I like the way I am, but I certainly do not go and berate others for being homosexual. I have two bisexual friends and a gay friend. I have no problems with them. They feel that they have to hide their sexual orientation from others, but I'm perfectly cool with it. What's the point of judging a person by their sexual orientation? You liked them before you knew they liked a person of the same sex, right? Now what? Does it make them a horrible person? I certainly don't think so. I admit that I'm a bit uncomfortable with seeing two men or two women kissing in front of me IRL, but I learn to deal with it. I don't mind learning to adapt. It makes me less vulnerable to the big scary world out there. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Dui bu dui?

I was part of a program called "Close-up Washington D.C." for a week. It involved debates, opinions, and just plain D.C. It brought me new views and this is why my opinions are the way they are.

I do understand religious controvery...but hey, you won't see me walking down the street telling you to believe in whatever. So, why are people preaching to gay people that what they're doing is wrong? Do they go and tell you not to believe there is a God? It's not acceptable to society as whole, but that's it. Society condemns them because it is not tradition. It's not normal. But we didn't get to being the great America for being normal. We rebelled and we were condemned. We fought a war for a revolution. This is their revolution. Change can be good.

Health risks...blahblahblahblah...Yes, I KNOW. AIDS SPREADS FASTER IN GAY COUPLES. Did you know that if someone is already infected they can still infect a girl? The chances are not as high, but it's still a load of bull crap to me.

Gay marriage! OKAY! This one is a big one. I support gay marriage. I support homosexual marriage. So bite me. I don't care if people think I'm queer just because I believe that homosexuals should be allowed to be legally married. I think they should. They're looking for acceptance in society and they want to be given the same privileges are married people do.

It's like a black man marrying an Asian woman. In tradition, she'd be condemned.

Love is love and marriage is marriage. If two people are in love, they should be allowed to be married.




As I read through it..................Not my most convincing argument. o_o

[lee hom x3]

I completely agree with seaweedpatchkid. I'm not lesbian either but i do have some bisexual and gay friends. i have not heard one legitimate argument about why gay marriage should be banned except for religion. The worst argument is when people go, "oh.. it's just.. wrong." Wrong? How is it wrong? I don't think being gay is something someone chooses, it's nature not nurture.

Honestly, people discriminating against homosexual people is the same as people discriminating against African Americans. People always so to learn from your past [mistakes] so why can't people accept the fact that people are unique and just because the gay community is a minority that it doesn't mean they're "abnormal" or morally corrupt.

[hYsteRicA]

i don like homosexual people. i think they have an identity crisis. maybe they need to get to know more people of the oppsite sex. maybe they are homosexual because they were hurt in the past.

but i read throu the thread and maybe you all are right. its probably their choice and they are born like that. i will try to change. but its not easy.

[aina]

i don like homosexual people. i think they have an identity crisis

Identity crisis? Maybe yes and maybe not.
I have a gay friend. He is the "bottom" (guy but act like a girl), he shared his story and feeling to me and my friends. He said that he doesn't want to be like that actually, who wants to be like that? But he can't do anything, it's the way he is ! He feels like a girl who is trapped in a guy body. He tried to change, but then he felt uncomfortable, he felt like he's lying to himself and that's even worse for him.

It's sad to hear his story, he's very cheerful outside but i'm sure deep down inside it must be very depressing. All i can do is just respect him..Be a good friend for him.. :)

[crystal tears]

I think your friend is a 'good' homosexual :D. I think those 'bad' homosexuals, those that dress like a girl openly and have fake boobs are downright disgusting! I mean, they like guys though they are guys and that's fine, but they shouldn't make me puke by dressing like that~ it just looks scary! if they are already homosexuals, no need to tell right? if tell, no need to scare people right? haha

[no_pride]

I have a friend who is a man physically, but a girl mentally. I know he likes a guy. Many of my classmates always teased and made fun of him by calling him "ah gua", "gay", "girl" etc. But he didn't care so much (he's happy-go-lucky). Recently, I ask him if he really likes being a girl, and he said yes. !!! So I jokingly suggested that he better go change his gender. And to my surprise, he said he have thought of it before, but said it is very troublesome. OMG...he is the very first person whom I know is a gay. =O

[twilighthush]

i don like homosexual people. i think they have an identity crisis. maybe they need to get to know more people of the oppsite sex. maybe they are homosexual because they were hurt in the past.

but i read throu the thread and maybe you all are right. its probably their choice and they are born like that. i will try to change. but its not easy.

Not liking homosexuals is like not liking black people. You can't change the disposition of your sexuality like you can't change the color of your skin. So, by that definition, you might as well be racist. Because you certainly are prejudiced.

I think your friend is a 'good' homosexual . I think those 'bad' homosexuals, those that dress like a girl openly and have fake boobs are downright disgusting! I mean, they like guys though they are guys and that's fine, but they shouldn't make me puke by dressing like that~ it just looks scary! if they are already homosexuals, no need to tell right? if tell, no need to scare people right? haha

This is ridiculous. There is no such thing as a "good" or a "bad" homosexual. What you're talking about is transexual or transgenderism. But you would never understand that. Take the case of Gwen Araujo (http://www.jaimesite.homestead.com/gwenaraujo.html) for instance. She was born biologically male, but mentally, she was a female.

But you would never know what that's like, waking up in the wrong body. Knowing that you should've been a woman but you weren't. Something like that. It's horrible. But you would never know how bad it's like. Movies like Boys Don't Cry that talk about Brandon Teena's murder -- for the sake of what? Because this individual couldn't help the fact that they are actually a man in a woman's body or a woman in a man's body? And you have the audacity to say they're "bad"?

You know what's bad? Murder is bad. Rape is bad. Drugs are bad. Adultery is bad. Divorces are bad.

And why shouldn't we say we're homosexual, huh? Is there something wrong about being gay? Should we, the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered community be ASHAMED of who we are? Fuck that.

Are YOU ashamed of who you are? Are you afraid of who you are?

Saying you're homosexual is like a black person showing his or her skin. Your argument falls flat.

Don't ever try and imply something that ridiculous.

I have a friend who is a man physically, but a girl mentally. I know he likes a guy. Many of my classmates always teased and made fun of him by calling him "ah gua", "gay", "girl" etc. But he didn't care so much (he's happy-go-lucky). Recently, I ask him if he really likes being a girl, and he said yes. !!! So I jokingly suggested that he better go change his gender. And to my surprise, he said he have thought of it before, but said it is very troublesome. OMG...he is the very first person whom I know is a gay. =O

Transgendered. This is something that's very typical in the circuits that I run in. Personally, I wouldn't call this individual a "he", if mentally, they are a girl. I would call this person a "she", because that's what they identify with.

[hisashiluv14]

I think your friend is a 'good' homosexual :D. I think those 'bad' homosexuals, those that dress like a girl openly and have fake boobs are downright disgusting! I mean, they like guys though they are guys and that's fine, but they shouldn't make me puke by dressing like that~ it just looks scary! if they are already homosexuals, no need to tell right? if tell, no need to scare people right? haha

1. Nobody cares about 'making [you] puke'; it's your own business if you're shallow and narrow-minded like that. Why should they go against their own inclinations just to placate people like you who're, frankly, a major waste of the world's already limited resources?

2. I've seen such people and I'm not scared the slightest bit.

3. 'No need to tell'? And this is coming from someone who basically shouted to whoever read his post that he's a straight (and bloody retarded) heterosexual.

I respect gays who can come out of the closet and be comfortable in their own skins. It's obviously something that's difficult to do, considering the fact that the world is still extremely and asininely narrow-minded, and your post only further exacerbates the situation. You know what I think? Guys who make fun of gays or are afraid of them are simply insecure about their own sexuality. You don't have to make macho jokes or act macho or whatever to be male; all you have to do is to be a respectful human being - something which you are obviously not.

I don't mean to be mean or to be rude, but from the bottom of my heart, you should get out more and stop being so freaking stupid.

[stargirl]

ke ke ke ke ya know gays are cool wit me! i don care! but they say that those who are homophobic usually are the ones that are hiding something if ya know what i mean! Juz leave em all alone, more of them means more women for me!

[twilighthush]

hisashiluv14 -- AHAHAHAHHA XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Dude you KICK ASS. Major brownie points. Much love. <3

[SimpleBlackHumor89]

o wait now there's GOOD AND BAD HOMESEXUAL.. someone please exlplain to me. bottom line is that every human should have respect for their own kind. i mean it's not rules, it's just what is. there shouldnt be debates about this, i mean people shouldnt be convincn others that homosexuality is not bad

[trishee]

What actually makes them GOOD or BAD? I mean some guy dressing like a girl automatically makes them BAD? They might have good hearts and actually are productive human beings.

Now I know it has been a long time...

trishee -- Well, you know what they say. Gay guys make the best "girl"friends. ^_~ Or something like that. Ever watch Will & Grace? XD;;
This is proven true *personal experience* And you arent the first to make my life sound like Will and Grace. My other friend said I'm like Grace. HAHA

I don't think your friends have any influences on your sexuality.
Maybe being friends with gay people will influence your own questioning of your sexuality, and most of the time, I think similar people attract and become friends with similar people, but I doubt it means that you are straight out homosexual just because you're friends with gay guys.
Honestly I have no worries whatsoever if Im homosexual or not. I am straight. Being friends with gay guys doesnt make me question my sexuality at all, its just that I am questioning my personality. What Im asking is do I have a problem being friends with guys or what? But this isnt bothering me anymore. I'm back to the whole Will and Grace concept. Thanks for your input :D