Is Jay's unchanging style a good or bad thing? [Archive]

linny

08-12-2004, 04:36 AM

In light of the new album, this question has been flashing little tiny blinker lights all over my little head. I've discussed it a bit with some of my other friends, and now I put the question to everyone here.

Would you consider Jay's lack of "breakthroughs" in his music a good or bad thing?

Of course, if I'm asking this, there's also the question of whether or not you think Jay's style has changed. If no, then why do you think he hasn't changed? I know Jay's said that he doesn't want to change because he doesn't see the need to, but is that really the only reason?

I just have a minor curiousity about what people think.

(Minor note, I'm really not sure if this belongs in General or Music/Concert Discussion, but since it deals more with his music style, I figured I'd stick it in here. ^^; )

amdawn

08-12-2004, 04:54 AM

if he feels uncomfortable about changing his style, i'll say let him be. to force a new style because of the wave of pressure for him to do so will be detrimental to his creativity. if he's not happy with his own music, he will not be able to please others as well. it may be said ' i create music that i myself would enjoy listening to'. the only problem that would arise from "standing still" is that the music becomes predictable. by now, we know jay enjoys starting some compositions with outside noises. or he weaves piano tinkering with rap. or that he starts the intro with orchestral movements and shifts to rap. it may wear thin over time. change is not bad but he's not required everytime he releases an album. it would be too much to change one's outlook every year! he's not a chameleon.

vicks

08-12-2004, 05:15 AM

i agree.. no need to change drastically from album to album. if ppl like his music, why drastically change it? it's his style, so he should stick with it. however, if he doesn't change over the course of say, 10 years, then i'd be a little disappointed that he's not challenging himself.

Dong Feng Puo

08-12-2004, 06:29 AM

I think not changing and not growing are very different things. Jay's music can still grow even if he maintains the same style, so I think his decision to keep his style is a perfectly fine decision. I mean, R&B is a style, so is Marvin Gaye's music suddenly bad 'cause it's all R&B? Of course not! I think people are just more critical of Jay's style because he has such a distinct style. I don't see anyone complaining about other Chinese singers who have been singing the same 3 notes for years. :wink:

linny

08-12-2004, 07:10 AM

I think not changing and not growing are very different things. Jay's music can still grow even if he maintains the same style, so I think his decision to keep his style is a perfectly fine decision.

I can see what you're saying, but perhaps style isn't the write word for it. It's more like the sound of the songs? What I worry about is one song will sound like another if the years progress and he maintains the same sound for every album. Jay has a definite style to him that lets you know that their his songs, but shouldn't there be a large song variety? Some of his songs are starting to sound extremely familiar to each other.

Do you think in the next coming years, his sound will change from what it is currently? Would you want the change?

kahel

08-12-2004, 07:17 AM

Well, the music did grow. I could sense a whole step of maturity from YHM to this album which is remarkable, I might say. You could actually feel in this album's music that Jay has stepped into adulthood. When I heard this album, I feel like a mom half afraid but proud of my boy maturing. :)

It doesn't have a lot of breakthroughs but Jielun is learning to improve what he currently has. Notice the layers of sounds in this album.

I could also say that Jielun changed in some ways in this album. we could see that Jielun experimented on using the guitar more as the main instrument and fiddled with the beats.

imkwtrz0r

08-12-2004, 09:41 AM

i feel like the new songs are more addicting than the old ones, but they are all good

his style is still about the same (since i still have to read lyrics to understand what he is saying)

lol

ker_ai_teresa

08-12-2004, 02:10 PM

i'm not sure about the "maturing" part, but i know what youre trying to say, Linny.
i was just thinking about this last night while listening to the 5th album.

okay, my views. I think that personally, purely for my own enjoyment, i'd like to see some changes in the sound of his music. this doesn't necessarily mean a change in his style or the genres of music he produces, but just the sound of the songs. like Linny has mentioned, i'd honestly get bored with his music if the songs start to sound the same. for example, if he produces a song that sounds and feels similiar to Black Humour, i'd ask myself, why write that song when you've already written it once before?

the challenge with writing your own songs is the danger of repeating yourself. coz i mean, Jay is Jay. anything that he writes himself will ultimately have the stamp of Jay on it....it's pretty hard to escape from your own style of writing.

so basically, i'd like to see some variations, some risk taking on his part, but only if that's what he feels is necessary. afterall, he can't and won't try to please ppl by forcing himself to change if he doesn't want to. on the other hand, i'm sure he is aware that ppl will get bored if he keeps producing replicas, and he'd be bored too. so hopefully we won't have to worry about hearing the same sounds.

I don't see anyone complaining about other Chinese singers who have been singing the same 3 notes for years. :wink:

nobody bothers to complain about them because we all know they're not serious musicians like Jay. he actually seeks to improve his music and to be challenged, whereas other "artists" seek to earn popularity, wealth and film deals. generalisation of course. :wink2:

kasic_fantasy

08-12-2004, 02:47 PM

life is forever changing...and people are always looking for a change...so does you and i and jay!!!its a good thing that he change,so we get to see how different he can be.and also his giving himself a challenge and goals to achieve.its a good thing to change.music is forever changing...from classical to classical rock n pop,then slow jazz...then hip hop...r and b...then modern rock and pop and many many more...his only trying to make himself fresh and new and to let his fans experience more of him and his music...so changing is good.
i guess many of us here might missed his old style,but we can always listen to his past albums...and plus...qi li xiang is like a continue of his old style...to me,i guess the biggest change is in ye hui mei,when he goes into many different kinds of music...
but anyway,we still love and admire him...right?

yeukang

08-12-2004, 03:33 PM

pop

08-12-2004, 04:24 PM

change style means something that could make fans go 'wow, i didn't know jay chou can do this kinda song and sing this way!,"
lemme ask u a question, did u listen through the album tellin yourself just that?
we don't have to deny that this album is a compilation of all the styles he have learned from the past...even jay said it
in fact he is promoting a message in this album that he doesn't wanna change his style for this album

he's got 4 albums showing his ability to create different styles and melodies using different instruments...album after album we have breakthroughs and suprises
maybe he thought it is time for him to settle down for an album that recognizes all these styles that he have created...like a tribute to what he had in the past
if he continues to create breakthroughs, ppl especially fans will go 'i wanna hear that style created for gui ji for another time!'

breakthroughs are aimed at new fans
his previous albums are aimed to impress a wider audience who haven't known about his ability to create songs that they liked
different ppl have different tastes...so he tried to gain more fans by creating more styles

up to this level, when he had gained so many fans, he is finally confident enough that he had a lot of fans to listen to the style of music he had built throughout the years...that is the music of jay!
that is why he could release this for his beloved fans who loved his music for what it is

'qi li xiang' is an album for the fans
that's y it is less critical and fresh as compared to the previous albums
and that's why there are so many critcs this time
because they are not aimed at them!

...enough said...

i figured that my comments in the news section very appropiate in this discussion so i quoted the whole thing...sorry...lazy to type all over again
but u can get wat i mean :happy:

RoYaL

08-12-2004, 04:31 PM

hmMmx.. Jay's style has keep growing in e past few albums he had cut.. If his style was being unchanged.. let him be.. Its a good thing tt he can change..Now we living in e 21st century..~ y not gif himself a chance to change his own style n oso challenge himself...

Mike

08-12-2004, 04:42 PM

Great musicians stick to their style. There are phases where an artist tries new things, but i think a great artist doesn't change. Each real artist's style is unique to each of them. Like, name some singer or musician who's style is constantly changing but has had his name passed down through history. None.

SimpleBlackHumor89

08-12-2004, 06:02 PM

i think it's definetly a good thing, cos he has confidence in his own style. but if he's always changing, that's probably an indication that he's uneasy about style. jay's style stays the same, but i think its' that he always adds different types to it, but in the end, you kno it's his work

linny

08-12-2004, 11:15 PM

Gah. It seems my wording isn't clear enough still. So I shall quote what I mean.

okay, my views. I think that personally, purely for my own enjoyment, i'd like to see some changes in the sound of his music. this doesn't necessarily mean a change in his style or the genres of music he produces, but just the sound of the songs.

THAT is what I mean. I'm all for Jay finding a style that he's comfortable with and developing it, but don't you think as an artist, he'd want to explore more and see what else he's capable of? It's not so much the style I worry about, but the sounds of the songs. In 7LX, I'm starting to see these similarities between the new songs and his older songs. Everything is just more polished and mature.

While that is a good thing NOW, wouldn't you get tired of it as the times progress? Wouldn't JAY get tired of the way his songs are sounding?

I can't understand this high expectation set on Jay for seemingly no reason. IMO, his music have had a steady development towards a style that Jay now feels secure with and can define his own. It's plain stupid to force a musician to change his own style just for the sake of changing, especially when there's no need to.

It's true, it's stupid to ask someone to change for the sake of changing, but I'm not thinking about now. I'm thinking about five years down the line. A few years from now, when Jay's polished the sounds he's been developing all these years, what happens then? He said he didn't have a new concept to go on for this album, and that's perfectly understandable. The man is human. But what will happen in a few years from now? Will his songs retain the same sound? Won't you get bored with him if every album sounded like the last?

laruku

08-13-2004, 05:02 AM

linny, that's what i have been trying to get at in a number of posts i made.. too lazy to search for them to do a quote...

everyone has their own style, yes definitely. what we are getting at is how the music should be distinct... it will be, and already is for me, ridiculous that i can start humming a jay song and halfway through, realise that i actually went on humming the tune of another song...

and i agree with linny... five or ten years down the road, will we get bored of the same old fare everytime? right now, we might think that we will listen to his stuff forever.. but forever is a long time.. he is an artist, no matter what you may think, and he needs fans to feed himself and continue making music. in the FUTURE, people might get bored with his albums... FUTURE...

stevey

08-13-2004, 05:06 AM

Actually, I always wonder when this topic comes up...What exactly to you expect to change? New music style? :glug: Those who are saying this seem to me like a bunch of smart-asses pretending to know something about music. You don't ask a jazz-artist to do pop-music, or a hardrocker to change to RnB....Those artists who do such things probably haven't found a style that they feel comfortable with. Those do change, they MUST change!I can't understand this high expectation set on Jay for seemingly no reason. IMO, his music have had a steady development towards a style that Jay now feels secure with and can define his own. It's plain stupid to force a musician to change his own style just for the sake of changing, especially when there's no need to. Honestly, how many other artists in China or Taiwan seriously drives the music industry forward like Jay do?

haha, very true, i 100% agree with u,
i feel there is unnessesary pressure on the guy, if ppl's expectations are too high he will probably start to question himself weither he is good enough for this,
and it could possibly lead him to an early exit.

now back to the question, good or bad?
wat attracted u ppl to jay? his 'current' style right?
if he was to change style, it could may well be a style we dont like, then it wouldnt be the jay we once like, right?

laruku

08-13-2004, 05:15 AM

have you actually read the other posts?? linny said many times that she didn't really mean style.. but more like the sound of the music...

e.g:
I'm all for Jay finding a style that he's comfortable with and developing it, but don't you think as an artist, he'd want to explore more and see what else he's capable of? It's not so much the style I worry about, but the sounds of the songs. In 7LX, I'm starting to see these similarities between the new songs and his older songs. Everything is just more polished and mature.

While that is a good thing NOW, wouldn't you get tired of it as the times progress? Wouldn't JAY get tired of the way his songs are sounding?

naru

08-13-2004, 05:24 AM

I don't want he to change anything. I love his style but I still feel that his music is growing up more and more. This album don't disappoint me at all. This album prove that even his style not change but his songs are better. If Jay has to change his song because other people,I think that's not real Jay. I love Jay because he is Jay so if he is not the same Jay, I will be very upset :cry:

Hyde

08-13-2004, 05:35 AM

I think we were all just so stunned by his YHM album. I mean, really: Yi Fu Zhi Ming was a complete surprise. He branched out into raprock in Nuo Fu and PopRock In Ta De Jie Mao. And Qing Tian was like, the stroke of genius that mades it, seriously, one of the best chinese love songs ever made.

And with all the albums before that. He was still such a new thing that any song by him would get us excited. It's just that, If 7Lx was released as a 2nd or 3rd album. People would rave about it. Well, I mean, way more than people are now.

But the thing is, we expect Jay to be some sort of miracle maker. Really though, how many other genres can he incorporate?

Instead, I feel like the idea behind this album is that he's set his style. In the albums before, he was still experimenting. In his JAY album, he did crazy things like "Niang Zi" and "Yin Di An Lao Ban Jiu" and slowly as the albums progressed, he created a more set style. He sometimes branches out but always sticks to what's become his style. Songs on 7Lx like "Luan Wu Chun Qiu" and "Jiang Jun" and "Zhi Zhan Zhi Shang" have become his trademark, as well as the ballads that appeared.

There's actually nothing credible in the above paragraph. It's just my feelings.
But I guess i hope that this isn't the case and that he goes on to surprise us loads with his new music.

Everyone loves surprises.

qingqing

08-13-2004, 06:50 AM

Hi,

well, it takes long time to read all of your comments :-)

Personally, i agree with Hyde that he was experimenting in his first 4 albums and for QLX, he now could settle with the kind/type/style (or whatever you guys use) he thinks it suits him. anyway, i has to accept that that i need more changes in his "sound" coz as many said when listening to his new songs, we could trace back to the old songs which are similar to.

However, i still like this album; maybe coz i haven't expected too much from it since Jay himself said earlier that he didn't change his style. It's good that when the song is played and everyone could tell that wow it's Jay Chou definitely! I like that feeling.

anyway, i believe in Jay and respect his decision.

ker_ai_teresa

08-13-2004, 11:56 AM

What exactly to you expect to change? New music style? :glug: Those who are saying this seem to me like a bunch of smart-asses pretending to know something about music. You don't ask a jazz-artist to do pop-music, or a hardrocker to change to RnB....

no one is asking Jay to change his style of music. and yes, it is ludicrous to ask a rocker to start doing R'n'B, some of us are just referring to the sound of his albums and songs, not his style.

having said that, Jay has in fact endevoured into doing different music styles, aside from his core R'n'B trademark. he has tried tried rock in YHM and pop in 7LX, so i guess, for Jay it's not impossible for him to do other styles. it does give something fresh for fans to look forward to but at the same time we can still expect that Jay will keep to R'n'B.

It's the sound that i'm concerned about. i still stick to my original view that if his R'n'B songs start to sound the same, then i'd get bored. take track 10 of 7LX, zhi zhan zhi shang. it's still R'n'B but it sounds nothing like what he has done before. same style but different sound.

yeukang

08-13-2004, 12:39 PM

Those of you who desperately want Jay to change, and come up with lame excuses like "Wouldn't Jay himself want to find out what he can do?" should listen to something else, because you obviously want him to change just for the sake of changing. I reckon Jay knows very well what he wants to do, and what he's capable of. You're not _encouraging_ any changes now, but taking away an artist's creative freedom. That would make him the same as any other commercialized artist who follows trends. And the current trend seems to be "Change! Change! Change!"

For every innovation, there must be evolution and maturing. I find the YHM-album to be quite fresh and it would be a pity if the next album had abandoned everthing that Jay had come up with before. It's like how 8D was an evolution of Fantasy. To demand an artist to change and innovate every time is like saying "I don't like what you offer, bring me something else next time!". That's why I say: Listen to something else.

You think Jay can't change? Think again. Changing is easy, staying true to oneself is hard. People who always change have no confidence in their potential. When Jay is content and done with everything he wants to try, he will move forward by himself. Just don't expect him to radically change his voice, his identity, his taste of music, etc, because unless he smokes crack he will still be the same person.

I consider Jay's rapping in "Jian Jun" to be quite different from his other works, and "Kun Shou Zhi Dou" to be different from his usual style. Nothing totally new, in terms of music (there are other artists in the worlds who do it better), but to say that there's no change is unfair. If you don't think _that_ is a change, then what is? It sometimes occur to me that you perhaps don't want to listen to Jay's music at all, but something else that you've never heard of. And why the heck would you want him to do something that _you've never heard of_? Is it good? Is it bad? You've got no f'ing idea what you really want, because you haven't heard of it yet. You're the one who needs to change. Listen to more different music that can satisfy your hunger for diversity.

It's the sound that i'm concerned about. i still stick to my original view that if his R'n'B songs start to sound the same, then i'd get bored. take track 10 of 7LX, zhi zhan zhi shang. it's still R'n'B but it sounds nothing like what he has done before. same style but different sound.
Seems to me like you've answered your own concerns? But there are still doubts. You mention rock, and I'd say track 8 of 7lx sport a really different sound from this other songs, albeit not perfect. It can't be perfect when he changes so radically. It takes years to develop an authentic style, not just a month. So, my point is, changing takes time, it NEEDS time to grow, otherwise it will just be something superficial. Nobody likes superficiality, no matter how much different it is.

Concerning sound, I think the sound of his ballads have definitely changed over the time. Listen to his "Hei se you mo" and "An Jing", which in terms of sound are rather artificial and plain. Compare to "Jie kou", which has a much more confident and warm sound. Being a musician myself, going by western standards, I'm happy that the sound of Jay Chou's music is getting better all the time.

ker_ai_teresa

08-13-2004, 12:42 PM

Those of you who desperately want Jay to change, and come up with lame excuses like "Wouldn't Jay himself want to find out what he can do?" should listen to something else, because you obviously want him to change just for the sake of changing. You're not _encouraging_ any changes now, but taking away an artist's creative freedom.

who's desperately wanting Jay to change? :glug: no one is demanding him to change as a person. some of us are just discussing the possible diversity in his music that he could explore as a musician, which he is doing perfectly fine in at the moment.
nobody is trying to take away his creative freedom! we're just voicing our most humble opinion about the very little we know about music.

and anyway, who's to say change is bad? how can one just stick to one style of music and stubbornly refuse to try something different? prehaps that person is afraid of change?

It sometimes occur to me that you perhaps don't want to listen to Jay's music at all, but something else that you've never heard of. And why the heck would you want him to do something that _you've never heard of_? Is it good? Is it bad? You've got no f'ing idea what you really want, because you haven't heard of it yet. You're the one who needs to change.

if you never try, you'll never know.
and don't make great generalisations and assumptions based on the opinions voiced here.
i'm sure all of us still want to keep listening to Jay's music, regardless of our views. and we're entitled to put our views forward and discuss how we feel about his musical direction without being called ignorant.

EDIT: i agree with you. the changes in the sounds of those songs you mentioned have definitely been noted. but on the other hand, what about the comparisons b/w Qi Li Xiang and Qing Tian? now i'm no expert in music, but as a listener, when i first heard QLX it reminded me of QT. another example is his use of the oriental instruments in that track, track 1 and a couple of others. excuse me, but something as diifferent as incorporating those instruments into contemporary music is bound to stand out, as we saw in Dong Feng Puo. i just feel that the uniqueness of that was overused in this album. and so when i continued to hear those oriental sounds in so many of the tracks in the album, i started to question whether or not that was a wise choice. no, i'm not criticising jay's choice, just wondering whether he's used it to death.

yeukang

08-13-2004, 01:21 PM

ker_ai_teresa: I'm directing my post to those who have this kind of opinion, people who posted earlier in the thread. I'm keeping my opinions general and not pointing at anyone. Those who find my opinions to concern them will probably answer me.

Sometimes, changing is good, sometimes not. My point is that you shouldn't change before you've maxed out the potential of your current style, because that doesn't make you grow at all. People who can't accept their favourite artist to grow are immature and egoistical IMO.

There is possiblity of one being afraid to change. Are you absolutely sure you'd like to hear Jay doing something else? How can Jay himself be absolutely sure that you would like to hear it? Obviously you don't accept small changes, so making a radical change is a rather risky step isn't it? Innovating is all about risks, so letting Jay do something safe between each innovation is not asking for too much right?

"and we're entitled to put our views forward and discuss how we feel about his musical direction without being called ignorant."

Of course, and I expect this reasoning to apply to me as well. I never specifically thought about you when writing my post, so I'm obviously not pointing at you, but to all of those who potentially wants Jay to change no matter what, desperately, etc, and fits into my description.

EDIT:

i agree with you. the changes in the sounds of those songs you mentioned have definitely been noted. but on the other hand, what about the comparisons b/w Qi Li Xiang and Qing Tian? now i'm no expert in music, but as a listener, when i first heard QLX it reminded me of QT. another example is his use of the oriental instruments in that track, track 1 and a couple of others. excuse me, but something as diifferent as incorporating those instruments into contemporary music is bound to stand out, as we saw in Dong Feng Puo. i just feel that the uniqueness of that was overused in this album. and so when i continued to hear those oriental sounds in so many of the tracks in the album, i started to question whether or not that was a wise choice. no, i'm not criticising jay's choice, just wondering whether he's used it to death.

I don't understand the comparison between QLX and QT actually. The minds of non-musicians are rather mysterious to me. Diffent songs, the only thing in common is one guitar riff. QT is more "half rap" feeling, while QLX is soothing and with lot of harmony and flow. Diffent chords, different melodies and structure. Hehe you don't want me to say honestly what I think about those who compare these two songs.... BUT, if you were to say these song are the same....notice that the _sound_ is much more solid and developed in QLX.
Concerning using the same instruments "to death". Listen to a metal-album. :) There are limited instruments in the world, so unless you use lot of electronic sounds, there will be repetitions. Probably you're so horny for change of sound that you fail to enjoy the music (just a generalisation). Even as a musician, I try to listen to the music itself first of all. I think it's more healthy to think in this way instead: "Is these style appropriate to the song?" If it is, it doesn't matter if the instrument has been used thousands of times, because it fits. And chinese instruments have been used over and over in chinese music, so I guess it's been overused already.

The oriental instruments used in this album:
1. Wo de di pian: I like it. Like the beijing-feeling
2. Qi Li Xiang: The intro sounds more japanese to me, in general more japanese feeling.
4. Wai Po: japanese/chinese?
7. Luan Wu Chun Qiu: Chinese mixed with heavy guitars and videogame sounds (Street Fighter II). Jay has done this many times already, but it's begun to grow on me. Really like this song.

And there's two songs which sound western and russian

ker_ai_teresa

08-13-2004, 02:37 PM

Probably you're so horny for change of sound that you fail to enjoy the music[

gee....i hope not... :shifty:

anyway, i know what you're saying. so i gather you're musically trained?

well i'm obviously not, so my comments (and some others here) can only be viewed as personal opinons from a layperson's view. so with regards to QLX and QT, from my musically untrained ears, they just sound familiar. i can't point out anything specific, just that when i listen to it, i'm reminded of QT.

Concerning using the same instruments "to death". Listen to a metal-album. There are limited instruments in the world, so unless you use lot of electronic sounds, there will be repetitions

yes, but that is what you would expect from a metal album. the use of the pi pa, er hu and other oriental instruments isn't a typical and common thing, in comparison to an instrument like the piano or guitar. i guess what i'm trying to say is, overusing them just makes them stand out and very noticable, because you don't generally hear them being used. and suddenly to be bombarded with it.....

How can Jay himself be absolutely sure that you would like to hear it?
that's true, but if he were "afraid" of that, then isn't he limiting himself? i'm not sure jay is the type of person who makes decisions about his musical direction based on whether or not people will accept it. but you're right, innovation can't be expected to be made in leaps and bounds.

a lot of the time, accepting change is hard, and therefore, criticisms may follow. but that is up to the individual. like you said those who can't accept their artist to grow are immature..... some of the time. :sweat:

yeukang

08-13-2004, 03:11 PM

(1) ...from my musically untrained ears, they just sound familiar. i can't point out anything specific, just that when i listen to it, i'm reminded of QT.

(2) yes, but that is what you would expect from a metal album. the use of the pi pa, er hu and other oriental instruments isn't a typical and common thing, in comparison to an instrument like the piano or guitar. i guess what i'm trying to say is, overusing them just makes them stand out and very noticable, because you don't generally hear them being used. and suddenly to be bombarded with it.....

(3) that's true, but if he were "afraid" of that, then isn't he limiting himself?

(1) Well, they're not the same. You're reminded of QT, in the same way that you're reminded of "Hei Se You Mo" when you listen to "An Jing", and "Dong Feng Po" when you listen to any contemporary song by Jay that uses chinese instrument, am I wrong? It's the same artist, so of course the songs will have a similarity. The important fact here, is that the sound, both instruments and singing, is different and much more developed in Qi Li Xiang, don't you agree? So your wishes for change of sound is fulfilled. Even an amateur should be able to hear that change if he/she makes an effort. There are no fast-singing or half-rap parts in QLX like in Qing Tian, and there are few long and soothing notes in QT like in QLX. You notice?

(2) Would you agree that overusing an instrument, which originally is rather unique, eventually makes it normal an plain? Looking back at all Jay's album, it seems to me that he intentionally wants to make this sound one of his own, and it progresses gradually. You should expect the same type of music in his next album, just like you expect the same instruments always used in a metal-album. Since we're listening to chinese music, I find it rather sensible that the music also have a flavour of China, not only using western instruments. Who knows, when everybody has finally accepted chinese instruments to be part of Jay's music, they will feel a sudden change to all-western style to be a too big change...?

(3) You got me wrong again. What I tried to acknowledge was that the issue isn't one-dimensional, but can very well head in many directions. There are those who are afraid that he doesn't change, or perhaps doesn't change into something better. He himself perhaps are afraid of changing without being done with his current music, or afraid of changing just because of the demand of the fans, etc. And you're definitely thinking one-sided now. Don't you think that people's incomprehensible expectation of him needing to change, is limiting his him from maxing out his current potential? Freedom isn't something you force upon someone. You don't set a bird free by forcing it to fly away when it just want to eat the crumbs on the ground in peace.

xiaoli

08-14-2004, 08:57 AM

It seriously baffles me when people criticise Jay for the "lack of breakthroughs" in his music. He's one of the most creative and innovative musicians the Chinese music industry has to offer! I know some people who have complained that they miss his old style from his earlier albums (songs such as Ke Ai Nu Ren, Tornado) and then there are plenty who complain that he sounds the same. Come on, he can't please everyone. Like Hyde said, we all expect Jay to be some sort of miracle maker. He's not a bottomless pit of new sounds, there's only so many innovations he can add within each album, and he's done a mighty fine job. I mean, gawd dang, compare Ye Hui Mei to 8D (the biggest step of change he took). Compare QLX to his 1st album. I don't know what's wrong with you if you can't tell how much his music has grown.

As for Qing Tian sounding like Qi Li Xiang, I was going to bring up Silence and Black Humour as well. Sure, they might remind you of each other because they're both heart-wrenching piano ballads, but they are NOT the same. You might as well throw in Shi Jie Mo Ri. Oh, and why not Fen Lie as well? What's most important is the difference in melody, and you don't need to be musically trained to distinguish that. There are plenty of songs by other popular artists that remind me of each other and bear the artist's signature sound - is that such a big deal? I don't think there's anything wrong with Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful" reminding me of "The Voice Within" or Linkin Park's "Somewhere I Belong" reminding of me "In The End".

I agree with yeukang about Jay's use of oriental sounds. So, the use of the pi pa, er hu and other oriental instruments isn't a typical and common thing. Does that mean it should stay that way? Why shouldn't Jay use the pi pa as often as he wants to use the piano? Just because no one else uses those instruments often? What's interesting about Jay's music is that he often likes to fuse Chinese and Western sounds together and it has become sort of his 'trademark'.

And yes, 5 or 10 years down the road, I can definitely see myself still listening to Jay Chou and loving his music. It's been over 10 years since I first fell in love with "End of the Road" by Boyz II Men (imo, one of the greatest R&B groups of all time) and I've been a fan ever since, even though they have always retained the same, typical R&B style. I don't see anyone complaining that they haven't changed. But people have such high expectations of Jay because when he debuted he set the bar high for himself.

ker_ai_teresa

08-14-2004, 01:44 PM

i'm pissed. i just typed out my long response and it's gone. *haiz*

yeukang--> 1) when i listen to music i don't analyse the songs as you do, or even necessary listen for the same things as you do. therefore, when i listen to QLX it does remind me of QT. i can't deny my feelings about these 2 songs just because of the disimilarities you pointed out above. as you have stated earlier "The minds of non-musicians are rather mysterious to me." this is probably very true.

2) I find it rather sensible that the music also have a flavour of China, not only using western instruments
of course it is sensible. but on the other hand, i don't know what direction jay is going to take with the chinese instruments. is he indeed trying to make it common? if so, i will accept it. or is this just a temporary phase in his music? i guess we will have to wait for his 6th album.

3) well fans really are an artists' most harsh critic.
we don't have the right to force him to change, but as fans we do have the right to have expectations of him. whether these be high, low, reasonable or unreasonable, depends on the individual.
i don't believe we have to necessarily accept or like everything that is presented to us without thinking. even if some ppl's opinions may be 'wrong' they are only wrong unto themselves.

xiaoli--> yes, jay cannot please everyone, but i don't think that's what ppl mean or want, at least that's not what i mean. of course he can't please everyone because we're all critics ourselves and individuals. as individuals we will have different preferences, but that doesn't necessarily make us wrong or right. and by being his fans already means that we are supporting him because we're still buying his albums and listening to his music. however, you have to accept that ppl naturally do have their opinions about his music. you don't have to accept or agree with their opinions, but you don't have to view it as being so negative either.

i don't know who's criticising jay and his "lack of breakthroughs", but i know that i'm not trying to do that. voicing that i'd like to see some future change to the sound of his music doesn't seem like a criticism to me.

yeukang

08-14-2004, 05:56 PM

ker_ai_teresa: That happened to me the other day as well, when I typed a long message, and pressed my that f'ing back-button on my mouse by mistake, which cleared everything on the page. I was so pissed that I was about to throw that mouse on the ground. Unfortunately, it's not my mouse, but my brothers :/

Have you considered the similarities of Hei Se You Mo and An Jing yet? Was your initial thought when hearing An Jing: "My god, it's a copy of Hei Se You Mo! GRRRR :( " Well, let's assume that QLX and QT do sound the same (which would imply that I'm tone deaf... :/). So, in your opinion, which song does Qing Tian copy from Jay's earlier songs? I remember that QT was a rather different Jay-song when I heard it for the first time. It was one of the big changes from the YHM-album. Considering that QLX obviously has caught your attention for being a QT copy, it seems to me that you find it unreasonable to use the same style even twice in two albums? O_o Honestly, can you hum the two melodies of QT and QLX? If you can, they're probably different enough, even for you. If you can't, well, that would be a problem. Seriously, if you just get this feeling of these two songs to be too much similar, you're probably right to think so, and no music theory can change that fact. But it's also your own individual problem, and I see no further point in arguing personal preferences.

"of course it is sensible. but on the other hand, i don't know what direction jay is going to take with the chinese instruments. is he indeed trying to make it common? if so, i will accept it. or is this just a temporary phase in his music? i guess we will have to wait for his 6th album."

You don't know? He's been doing this from day one. Altough Wife didn't have any chinese instruments, you can clearly follow his direction from his albums. Fantasy-album had Shuang Jie Gun with Er hu. Next was Long Quan which incorporated chinese instruments even better. In Yu Hui Mei there were two, Dong Feng Po and Shuang Dao. Latest album has Wo De Di Pian, Qi Li Xiang (which I think is more japanese actually), Wai Po and Luan Wu Chun Qiu. You still can't see his direction? And of course I haven't mentioned the other songs which have sounds of Japan, Spain, Italy, Arabia, Russia, etc, but the main direction is Chinese. I did expect more songs in Russian-style in QLX though I admit. You probably won't need to wait for the 6th album to judge his direction, but who knows? Perhaps all this "needing to change" talk will force him abandon all the things he worked on and start from scratch. Not very likely though considering his personality.

Jay Chou always has the same type of songs in his albums, like piano ballad, rap songs, chinese-flavoured song, and lately guitar songs with more rock influence. I don't think Jay wants to make his songs "common" like I put it before, but to create a unique style of his own. When people hear this contemporary music with chinese instruments, jay-style rapping, etc, they will immediately know that it's Jay's music. Jay doesn't need to change in my opinion, unless every other artist begin to copy his style. Then his style would be just common and nothing special. That's why I say that people with such intolerance and eager to have him change his sound, should try listening to different artists instead, because Jay Chou is only one person who represents his own style.

the one

08-14-2004, 09:47 PM

jay's voice has never changed. except that his adam's apple has deepened over the years.
his music is the only factor that changes and i find it advantageous. it's good jay likes to experiment different types of music from time to time. so he can make new discoveries, new explorations. and his fans will appreciate more music genres, not only ballads that got him famous..

08-15-2004, 09:29 AM

i think up to now its still alright...theres no very similar kinda songs....tho yuanyouhui gives me a summary of fantasy allbum style sort of....zhizhanzhishang gives me a feeling of yifuzhiming but they sounded different and theres a diff kind of emotions attached....i dun think he'll use the same sound/similar melodies for future songs coz the world changes....the music around him changes....the things pple (including himself) like changes with time....so in the future...i'm sure there will be a change in the sounds as he gets exposed to diff types of music....its like for now we compare it with his first album, there is some significant change in the sounds and effects of the songs.....besides creating music needs inspirations...it is not possible for one to change drastically in a short period of time.....as long as the music he creates are loved by us and himself i think tts good enough....

jAdesPiriT

08-15-2004, 09:46 AM

i dun think there is a need for jay to change his music style. since this is the music style that got him famous, i think he shd keep it this way. but no matter what kind of styles jay wants to change to, i will still support him. ^^

Dita511

08-16-2004, 03:21 AM

I believe that Jay does not have to change his style, it is cliche - but why change what works so well?

Jay's musical style began so different and unique from those around him, so why not keep up that excellent, dynamic style throughout his series of albums? That;s not to say that he might change his style in the future - but it should be a natural progression; forced progression can be so disastrous when it becomes obvious that the 'new style' is incredibly pre-planned and orchestrated.

Jay should stick to who he is right now, and if that means his musical style remains the same, then so be it. :happy:

starofflame

08-16-2004, 03:48 AM

Hi all,

I think Jay still want to remain his old style although many people beside him want he to change the style...
I'm quite excited of the lyric of 'Wai po'....
It's clearly show what Jay feel about his own music...his own style..

Yeah his style is owesome and I think he need to keep it and adding some new element to his own style... evolution not revolution that I hope.

"Sleep Dragon Lurking"
Flame

yeukang

08-16-2004, 10:54 AM

He's already slowly changing to adopt to a more rockier sound. It's not yet perfect, so there's no reason to run away and change into something else.

pop

08-17-2004, 01:35 PM

after readin each and every reply u guys made :wacko:
i found many interesting comments and opinions especially the counter replies between yeukang and ke ai teresa :wave:

anywayz actually while readin the posts i personally don't think qi li xiang resembles qing tian...if it is comparable, i think gui ji will be the best contender for being the most similiar to qi li xiang :oops:

about qing tian being a new style from jay chou, i had to agree!!
about it being the one of the best chinese song ever made, i had no doubts too!
about qi li xiang being the best jay song...well i had doubts
why? because it lacked the feeling of sadness in gui ji
the instruments drowned all the emotion and even his voice!
qi li xiang would sound so much better if it is developed as simple and less instrument as qing tian...or perhaps the wrong use of the instrument for a great song?
too much violin and strings incoporated in qi li xiang has caused quite a mess...
don't get me wrong i still like the song just feel frustrated that it COULD sound much better than it sounded

erm about styles changes yeap jay has developed many trademarks in order from the first album to the 5th album

since fantasy the birth of his 'martial arts and weapons song' such as nunchucks, long quan, shuang dao is not continued in this 5th album

his complicated multiple instruments fast song since his first album
wan mei zhu yi, ren zhe, milan ironsmith, tong yi zhong diao diao, luan wu chun qiu

his piano ballads
hei se you mo, an jing, fen lie, ai qing xuan ya, ge qian

his feel good songs
xing qing, jian dan ai, an hao, ta de jie mao, qi li xiang

these are all his trademarks...i can't think of more
feel free to add :)

his smooth R&B ballad
tornado, cannot speak, ban dao tie he, ni ting de dao, and yuan you hui

mainland chinese influence
counter clockwise, dad i'm back, train stops, dong feng po, wo de pi pan

so with all these styles he had put into his new album...we can rule out which is his new style which doesn't have a comparing partner that is....
jie kou, wai po, duel of trapped beasts and....that's all...
and these are only sounds that doesn't sound the same but the style is still there

so with so few new sounds, fans dismissed it as an album with minimal changes..it's obvious! i was a bit disappointed but i'm sure this album doesn't affect at all my admiration for his talents in making music

DragonPrince

03-01-2006, 04:22 AM

Jay style is so unqiue, so attractive. It would be a waste if he changes. Who dare say that he will become more successful if he changes? We like the adorable him now. If he change to someone else, he will be known as a wannabe. He is change to another him. It will take time for people to accept.

I don't want him to change. Its better he remains who he is now.

happifruit

03-01-2006, 06:47 AM

I think his style has definitely changed from the Album Jay days...I think the big turnaround was 8th Dimension...but in the last few years I do admit that his music has been pretty similar...

I don't see too big of a problem with that...he has had 6 albums to play around with and he's found his signature style...any one of the songs on the November's Chopin album just says "JAY" to me...true it's getting kinda boring because Yeh Hui Mei, Qi Li Xiang and November's Chopin share the same style, but we still love it right?

and who knows? maybe he'll come up with something crazy next year

princessKitty

03-01-2006, 11:25 AM

Well, I think it is a good thing and bad thing. The good thing is that people can recognise his songs and acknowledge that this is Jay's song and his way of doing music.

However, if it is to be like this for the next 10 years without changing his style of music, people may get a bit bored and may look to another artists who can give something different.

I certainly feel like that with some artists. a lot of them over the past few years have been releasing many albums but some of the songs in the album are still the same kind of music. In the end, I get bored of their music and stop buying/listening to their music. :wacko:

However, because Jay is so popular in the music industry, I don't think people would get fed up of him. Even if Jay sang a song that falled in the top worst 100 songs, people would still listen to his songs because it is JAY who is singing it. They all crave and want the latest songs or album. So no matter what happens whether Jay changes his music style or not, I still feel that people would support him.

Galzs_revolution

03-01-2006, 01:13 PM

However, because Jay is so popular in the music industry, I don't think people would get fed up of him. Even if Jay sang a song that falled in the top worst 100 songs, people would still listen to his songs because it is JAY who is singing it. They all crave and want the latest songs or album. So no matter what happens whether Jay changes his music style or not, I still feel that people would support him.

i won;t agree with u.. because i think even though who ever is so famous still there is the down fall, whether the style of the future will change or something else... i mean even though i really really like jay.. but the reason that i like him is because i'm not bored with his music.. but if i'm bored.. i would automatically find something new.. so if his song falled in the top worst 100 songs.. he would still get support from me perhaps simply because i want to know why it has fallen like that...

as for the changes, well he has been through the changes in the albums that he produced.. if people say that he does not change, then it's simply because they didn't know jay's music... i think jay's music mainly developed to a more mature state.. for example YHM album the most obvious one.. but there are more songs taht are different although probably he has not changed rapidly.. still there are changes

personally i hope that jay's style could alter in different directions so we could know the different side of him, i mean it's not wrong to experiment in different style of music as long as he still keeps his origin style and i think it will be better if the different style of jay could be accepted in the fans eyes, eg. jay has adopted the new style become his own style.. hehe..

although awards might judge how good a singer is but it's still pleasing if jay achieve awards (referring to Golden melody award = album of the year) like YHM's album of the year..