[SG Talk] The Great Singapore Debate - "The Chinese Language Issue" [Archive]

charmian

08-01-2004, 06:28 AM

My answer would be a yes. why? i'll speak into greater detail

everyone start out in kindergarden..whuch nurture some basics

next, primary sch..which they stream into two streams..BUT english isnt the main point..higher mother tougue is given to those who can do well in their second language. However, Our senior PM Lee says that one cannot master both languages well..Thus, lead to the singlish speaking country we are in.

NEXT, our secondary sch is VERY classified..those who do good goes into top sch..Those who didnt go gd in PSLE..goes to some neighbourhood sch..which makes it worse when people speak singlish everywhere in sch..you tend to think its ok. however, in top schs..the students are taught proper english and well, they are the elite and they know the advantage of speaking proper english..and most of them come form english speaking family..thus english standards rise and people again would rise their standards too

NEXT, after O level, JC and poly becomes hot choices for students..however, look at ITE. they are taught hands-on stuff..NOT english, maths, sciences. Mostly engineering, techincal and relavent issues..THUS? it lead to more singligh speaking people in the society. whereas, JC and poly are still having lessons on subjects that are relavent to studies..thus, they could have a more detail understanding the languages and knowaledge.

well..thats my understanding of singapore's educational system..whats for the rest of you? =)

sera

08-01-2004, 06:49 AM

I believe the education system in Singapore definitely doesn't breed Singlish-speaking people, rather it's some of us Singaporeans who choose to do it. PM Goh has especially highlighted to us citizens about speaking in proper English during the national day's rally, so even PCK also has to speak in proper English as much as possible. :tongue: And the teachers themselves don't teach in Singlish to the class too.

I think that it's more because we are a multi-racial nation, and we've alot of different dialects, that's why when communicating with each other, dialects will tend to get mixed with english and so produced this so-called national language - Singlish. When we speak Singlish to our own friends, it may come out hilarious and entertaining (to some extent), but when you come to international forums like this, watching Singlish being displayed in posts is very annoying and irritating. It may be 'cute' to some people, but in actual fact, it's just like 'baby-ish talk' or being 'manja' - the person doing it is oblivious to how much it irks; it's the surrounding people who are truly put off.

EDIT: laruku, maybe you'll like to express your own views on this as well? :)

charmian

08-01-2004, 06:59 AM

however, in most schs..multi racials could be observe..but how is that when tops schs could have higher english speaking standards? Plus, nowadays, not many youngsters know their own native dialects..its more of they learn in it from their peers in sch..whcih we come again to the sch...students who is mature enough wouldnt go arund speaking those you-know-wad dialects. YEP, thus, the sch have a major impact on students lifes..not to mention..with the classification of sch..they tend to mix good with good, bad with bad.they learn from good and they learn from bad ONLY. haha..My reply!

fukakyon

08-01-2004, 12:31 PM

I dun think so. I dun remember any of my lecturers speak in singlish when we are having classes. Jus wondering how singlish come abt to spore. In any case, I dun think it is a flaw in the education system. Like I mention b4, singlish did become part of our lives but we have to use wisely in different occassions. Perhaps to chat among with ur frds in singlish is okay, but with ur clients in work, definitely a big no-no. We must play our part as well to master good english and differentiate singlish from the proper english language.

dazzlette

08-01-2004, 04:35 PM

No, the education system in Singapore does not breed Singlish speakers. In order to breed something, the environment must be condusive and the conditions suitable. I don't really think that in a classroom situation a Singlish environment is created. Textbooks are written in standard english and the teachers as much as they can speak in standard English too. Teachers might lapse into Singlish once in a while, but the majority of the time, they speak English.

Sorry charmian I disagree with you on several areas...

next, primary sch..which they stream into two streams..BUT english isnt the main point..higher mother tougue is given to those who can do well in their second language. However, Our senior PM Lee says that one cannot master both languages well..Thus, lead to the singlish speaking country we are in.

Are you sure SM Lee said that? I know people who are effectively billingual. I think it is possible to be master 2 (or even more) languages. While not everyone can do it, it is still possible. Besides, you don't have to be very good in English to speak and write it in a way everyone can understand.

NEXT, our secondary sch is VERY classified..those who do good goes into top sch..Those who didnt go gd in PSLE..goes to some neighbourhood sch..which makes it worse when people speak singlish everywhere in sch..you tend to think its ok. however, in top schs..the students are taught proper english and well, they are the elite and they know the advantage of speaking proper english..and most of them come form english speaking family..thus english standards rise and people again would rise their standards too

From what you say, people in neighbourhood schools are not taught proper English? :? I'm sure you would agree with me that that can't be true. I believe that in every school , proper English is used and taught and not Singlish. I'm sure that the importance of proper English in the right context is stressed in schools over all over Singapore. I bet any English teacher would cringe if he/she sees words like 'sum' instead of 'some' or 'juz' instead of 'just' in written essays. Besides there is a misconception that you have. People in top schools speak Singlish too. It's just that they know how to switch between the two. They speak standard English during oral exams, interviews etc and Singlish with friends and the canteen auntie.

I don't disapprove of Singlish. I speak it with my family and friends all the time. I believe that the context is important. You should know when to speak English and when to speak Singlish. As FuKaKyOn has said, the widespread use of Singlish in the wrong situations is not the flaw of the education system. It is our fault more than anything else.

rachelle03

08-01-2004, 04:38 PM

My answer is N.O.

It's a matter of whether whom you are talking to rather. Education, yes, might be part of it, but not totally. When you are facing a person talking to you in english, you will still respond in english. Same goes for singlish. It only how you're going to react with different kind of people. And I think there's no diff between a Poly, JC, ITE, neighbourhood school or top school student. There's bound to be one singlish word that you will use.

There's no discrimination of singlish here, but rather on how and where you going to use it. I used singlish a lot, but when facing an india-national colleague, I changed into english. It's a way of communication.

A bit off-topic here.
charmian, Poly, JC and Uni does involves a lot of hands-on stuffs too. :wink2: It's only a matter of what course you are in. Engineering...? Yes! a major part of Poly courses as well. In TP, almost 1/3 of the students comprises from our engineering buddies.Science? it's a LOT of practical work here. And how bout Design? and ITE does have business course as well. They are improving and no longer the technical vocational institutes like before. Sorry but i kinda disagree on the topic you've brought up.

laruku

08-01-2004, 06:44 PM

sera, i wanted to make my 'initiating' post clean and easier to read so i didnt put my comments in too, plus i am not allowed to double post. had to wait for responses, plus i had my share of debating in the speak no singlish thread. :tongue:

anyway. i would say no as well.

basically i agree with what the others have brought up but i would like to refute some points that charmain has made.

1) not all top students come from english speaking families. many many of my friends who are in top schools come from chinese speaking families. some of their parents do not even speak chinese, but only dialect. how are they able to speak and write proper english then? was it a gift then? no. it was more a constant effort to work a little harder, put in constant effort to correct themselves.

2) since when did SM Lee say that we cannot master 2 languages well. he himself can speak both english, chinese and malay pretty well. even our past presidents, mr Wee and Mr ong can speak and write proper english and chinese. PM Goh can speak both languages fluently.

3) i don't agree with your stand on how neighbourhood school students are not taught proper english. how can that be possible? does it even seem logical that teachers will teach students non-proper english? what are the textbooks for in that case?? surely they are not using a singlish textbook? and i don't believe that teachers will teach their students to write lYk dIs? such writing will get a very low grade and may even be asked to rewrite the whole essay in proper english like this.

4) i am really sorry that you have such a misconception about ITE. I have many ITE friends who are perfectly capable of speaking english. their english may be simple and very straightforward with small vocabulary, but they do not write lYk dIz.. or pepper their writings with lorz, nd, wud, and so on

ene

08-02-2004, 04:14 AM

laruku Thanks for starting this thread. I just want to state here whatever I'm going to say is my own personal opinion. You don't have to agree with it and please also remember that I have nothing against anyone personally. It's a debate so er, here I go :) :

Can I clarify that "singlish-speaking people" refers to both (1) people who speak in singlish (the lah, lor, leh, etc) and (2) people who type in their "cool and unique" manner (ie, lolx, lyk dis, etc) ?

If so, my answer is a resounding no. It is your own choice whether you make the effort to speak or write in English that everyone can understand. Like I said before, you don't need to know the Queen's English or huge words with 20,000 syllabus. If you've been schooled in Singapore, I'm pretty sure you'll have, at the very least, a basic command of English for you to write/speak in a legible and coherent manner.

Besides, you do need to pass English at every level before you proceed to the next level of education, right ?

charmian Your last paragraph suggests that because ITE teaches hands-on subjects, it inevitably leads to people who speak more Singlish. I don't see the link at all. I came from a polytechnic (TP) and yes, we didn't have English classes but that does mean that I no longer write in normal English ? You will still need basic English (or a bit more) to write your presentations and reports !

Lastly, I want to add that of course I do use Singlish. All the time, in fact. However, I only speak Singlish. I don't type nor send sms in Singlish. Why put in the extra "liao" and "lors" when the whole point of shortening SMS is to save keystroke ? That's another deep dark mystery to me.

FYI, for all those big words, you might like to bookmark this site : www.dictionary.com I use it all the time to search the meanings of words that I don't understand.

charmian

08-02-2004, 09:30 AM

WAH!! so so so many replies..well well well..time for my piece..firstly, why not name me some of the reasons why singlish is THAT dominant in singapore? well well well..none of you said anything on that issue itself. Plus, when i say that the educational system got something to do with our singlish problem is because the classification of our schs. None can deny that a neighbourhood sch have high english standards right? i mean then why are they even in that sch? i'm not here to offend those who are in neighbourhood sch..however, sadly, out government chose to do things with system. whcih thus led to students having different surroundings to study in.

1) i never say that there are no chinese speaking families in top schs. BUT, high percentage of them are from english speaking families. Plus, I DO agree that hard work pays off to people who study well for their english. however, could you study english? you can only improve by using more english and well, speaking it and using it often. However, those who are in neighbourhood schs, they problem why they are in sch with lower standards is because they have a problem in their studies. Plus, singapore's textbooks are all in english. Dun understand english? then well, say bye bye to your future during your schooling days.

2) ITE and poly. They dun have english lessons in which hinders their improvement in english. I mean, you no longer need to fit in perfect english into compositions or such.No doubt they need it during presentations or such BUT the main point here is that they sure dont use it as frequent as us. Why? simple. they prefer their mother tougue.

3) PM lee did say something like that. Plus, my dear fellow singaporean? can his chinese to be compared to a china student? obviously you cant. Plus, i guess he's more comfortable to english? i cant agree more on that. Malay? its simply just like you learning malay and speaking it. You cant be as good as the malays. its just logic

4) i haven been saying that teachers teaches singlish. thats crap!! who ever teaches singlish is crap. however, what i'm trying to point out is that. Their understanding of english wouldnt be as much as one in RI or RGS rite? Thus, their surrounding nurture some singlish around.

PEOPLE!! can i get someone who share the same view as me? haha..i'm going BONKERS!! =X

One more. words such as 'WAH' is singlish? wad about 'sheesh'? one more last point, how come we dont see people have debates in american accent? they mean they're understoodable for you? well, not for me.

rachelle03

08-02-2004, 10:16 AM

Well, to answer that. The answer is still no. The reason why singlish is because of the different races we have. Singlish goes all the way back when you and my grandparents are still young.

Let's take a look. There's Malays, Indians, Chinese and Eurasians living in a village or kampong. An example. A Malay lady tries to speak to a Chinese lady in simple english, when the malay lady tries hard to explain a word which at the end could'nt find the exact english word. In the end, she uses a malay word, let's say makan. And the chinese lady somehow got the idea from the malay lady gesture. So the next time when they meet, knowing that the malay lady uses makan as the word, asked her, "so have you makan?" The malay lady will be pleased to know that they have something in common. Then it will need to take lots of communication to spread the different kinds of words and languages around the village.
What does the little story says? It explains the reason behind this icon of Singapore.

If talking about education, do you think our chinese in school is 'pure' then? a typical example, 巴杀 (Ba Sha) = market. We are taught that, but it's a malay word, Pasar!

2) ITE and poly. They dun have english lessons in which hinders their improvement in english. I mean, you no longer need to fit in perfect english into compositions or such.No doubt they need it during presentations or such BUT the main point here is that they sure dont use it as frequent as us. Why? simple. they prefer their mother tougue.
Sorry, but preference of mandarin doesnt mean their english is bad. And yes, when presentation or a report done, english is used.
Eg,
english: "The conclusion to the experiment done....."
singlish: "The conclusion hor, is like that lah..."
I'm sure you wont see that in reports.
Another one, Poly DO have communication skills subjects. They might not improve their english but doesnt mean they changed totally to singlish.
I'm speaking up for Poly students because yes, I'm one!

and my dear singaporean girl, it's Senior Minister Lee. :wink2:

Again, there's no discrimination of Singlish, it's the topic of the thread that makes us respond.

charmian

08-02-2004, 10:36 AM

AHH..thats his son isnt it? i got it all mixed up. haha..thanks for pointing that out. Well, as you can see..the word market in chinese, is only used in singapore. Cai shi chang = market is then really the word to use. As i've said it again, reports, presentation. they have time to prepare for it. they did not really need to present it straight to their teachers. wells, my reply..NEXT!! haha..i'm the bad guy huh? i'll do the debate until its has changed topic..i just cant see why i am seeing it in some way you guys are not seeing..=X i guess i'm VERY stubborn in some ways..Pardon me!! =)

dazzlette

08-02-2004, 10:37 AM

*lapses into Singlish*
Aiyoh!! What a long post charmian!! Before I begin my reply, I must say that it is nice of you to express your opinion here. But really, I think you haven't seen our point of view yet.

firstly, why not name me some of the reasons why singlish is THAT dominant in singapore? well well well..none of you said anything on that issue itself. Plus, when i say that the educational system got something to do with our singlish problem is because the classification of our schs. None can deny that a neighbourhood sch have high english standards right? i mean then why are they even in that sch? i'm not here to offend those who are in neighbourhood sch..however, sadly, out government chose to do things with system. whcih thus led to students having different surroundings to study in.

Why is Singlish dominant in Singapore? Well, it is because it's Singapore, that's why! Singlish wouldn't exist if not for Singapore. You must realise that we 'created' this 'language'. It came about because of of multi-cultural society. As the people interacted with each other, it was inevitable that various words from different languages got introduced. The classification of schools does bring about problems, I don't deny that. But I don't think one of the problems is Singlish.

I agree that generally in better schools the English standards among the students are better. But we cannot blame the schools for breeding Singlish, because it's not the fault of the teachers or the education ministry. I'm sure that the use of proper English is emphasised in all schools in Singapore. So whether or not you want to speak or write in standard english is more often than not a personal choice.

1) i never say that there are no chinese speaking families in top schs. BUT, high percentage of them are from english speaking families. Plus, I DO agree that hard work pays off to people who study well for their english. however, could you study english? you can only improve by using more english and well, speaking it and using it often. However, those who are in neighbourhood schs, they problem why they are in sch with lower standards is because they have a problem in their studies. Plus, singapore's textbooks are all in english. Dun understand english? then well, say bye bye to your future during your schooling days.

You can't study English in the conventional way you would study a subject like math or science but you certainly can improve it. In Singapore, there are plenty of opportunities and resources for you to improve your English. I don't think those in neighbourhood schools are deprived of a chance to improve their English if they really want to. You make it sound as if these students are caught in a dead end. I doubt that the standard of English in textbooks of other subjects are so difficult for students to understand. Even if you aren't that good in English, I believe you can still make it through school, although it might still a bit more difficult.

2) ITE and poly. They dun have english lessons in which hinders their improvement in english. I mean, you no longer need to fit in perfect english into compositions or such.No doubt they need it during presentations or such BUT the main point here is that they sure dont use it as frequent as us. Why? simple. they prefer their mother tougue.
I don't really see your arguement here. It's true that people in ITE and Poly don't have English lessons anymore. But neither do the people in JC. No one teaches grammar and vocab anymore at tertiary levels. And I prefer to use Singlish when I speak to friends. So what? That doesn't mean I don't know how to speak proper English. Again, we're not expecting a very high level of English, just simple phrases to be understood

3) PM lee did say something like that. Plus, my dear fellow singaporean? can his chinese to be compared to a china student? obviously you cant. Plus, i guess he's more comfortable to english? i cant agree more on that. Malay? its simply just like you learning malay and speaking it. You cant be as good as the malays. its just logic
I really disagree with you on this. I don't think SM Lee (or do you mean PM Goh) said anything like that. The general population might not be able to achieve fluency in Chinese like that of a mainlander, but it is certainly possible to be effectively billingual. I have friends whom I dare say are good in both Chinese and English. Of course, you might be more comfortable in one language compared to another, but that doesn't mean you can't speak both well. By the way, it is possible to learn Malay and be as good as the Malays. All it takes is the time, patience and the right attitude.

4) i haven been saying that teachers teaches singlish. thats crap!! who ever teaches singlish is crap. however, what i'm trying to point out is that. Their understanding of english wouldnt be as much as one in RI or RGS rite? Thus, their surrounding nurture some singlish around.

I think that regardless of school, the quality of our English teachers are about same. In fact, you might be surprised that in good schools, the teachers aren't exactly very good either. The students do well cos they're smart themselves and it's not the effort of the teachers/

One more. words such as 'WAH' is singlish? wad about 'sheesh'? one more last point, how come we dont see people have debates in american accent? they mean they're understoodable for you? well, not for me.

Well, something like 'sheesh' I understand. And if there was something I didn't understand, I would ask. I'm ok if you have one or 2 words in Singlish, I feel it does add flavour in what you're trying to say. But I don't approve of a whole post littered with words like 'wah biang', 'wah kao', 'paiseh' 'kiasu' etc etc

I'm not exactly very good at argueing but I hope you see my point of view... :happy:

charmian

08-02-2004, 10:52 AM

Yep, i do see your point of view..BUT..i'm that old self again..i just dun agree~! not that i'm inflicting any personal hatred to anyone since we are, well, in the protection of our computer screen. What you say may or may not make an impact of me. its just how i think it, coz i dun really have to care. however, this makes a difference to my propective of singlish..then of course..i must make my point seen and heard.

1) ARE you guys sure that you're both good in chinese and english? its not just the communication languages, but really, what you write and talk. its the content that we're talking about. If its that way, my chinese would be good..however, i'm still scoring 50% for HMT. haha..i'm a total nuts in chinese. BUT, i speaking very good mandrian..i know what the textbooks says and what my teachers are talking about!! but when it comes to writting..SPARE ME! haha..thats why i say, its not just the communicating part.

2) i stated something about wad our PM or SM is talking about cause i wan to point out that even he knows that singapore's kids are not doing well managing two language. ONe has got to be weaker then the other. why? as i've said it, its about your sage of words and using of words which is often used tend to be better then the other language not used as much. get my point?

3) ITE and polys. GOD!! i'm talking about them not achieving as high standards as JC english..well..i stated my reason there. PLUS, yes yes..not queen languages, but when people do use their las, lehs, wahs. you guys tend to be VERY harsh on them. =X well..dun alrite? it comes to them naturally. you want them to change? HEY..its singapore you're talking about, not a singaporean living in america. its a singaporean living in singapore, and if he cant change it..WHY FORCE HIM? coz its his surrounding that makes it make for him to change. thats why i say, schs play a major role.

MY reply~~~ NEXT!! haha..and aniwea people..i just wanna point out..shortforms are NOT singlish. thanks!! =)

dazzlette

08-02-2004, 11:00 AM

I'm not good at both English and Chinese I admit. I mean, I might have done decently in both Chinese and English in school, but I certainly don't proclaim myself effectively billingual. But really, you cannot deny that there are people out there who can speak and write both languages well. I know of people personally like that. There's this reporter in SPH ( I can't remember her name but her surname's Mak) who wrote articles both in the English and Chinese newspapers. And to me, whether or not the content of a piece of written work is good would be independent of the language right? :?

charmian

08-02-2004, 11:03 AM

Yep, i dont know if we're speaking about the same girl. i only know of a reporter working under mediacorp who could speak both mandarin and english well..BUT thats minority..am i right to say about that?

HaNaBi

08-02-2004, 11:05 AM

My personal opinion is NO.

Charmian, your concept is abit extreme and is actually the "old" concept of the education system in Singapore. I don't think that it is very difficult in mastering 2 languages. During my days in Primary and Secondary, most of my friends, chinese, tamils and muslim/malays, most of them did very well in English and also their mother tongue and they speak wel in English, their own tongue and also picked up a few phrases in other races tongue.

The reason why, Secondary is so "classified" it's not because they will 100% speak poor english in those "lousy" schools, it's just because they did not do well in their overall results in PSLE. And "Good" school not equal to Good english or "Lousy" schools equal to having broken or singlish speaking students. I always walk along the streets of Orchard Road and always hear many students so called "Elite Students" from the so called "Elite ot Top" schools, speaking Singlish. But, they don't speak in Broken English Tongue. They spoke Singlish very beautifully, in my opinion. I have friends who has very good command in english but are studying in neighbourhood schools. Students are classified not because of their poor command in english but their overall results. And that is also due to the concept that has been around in Singapore. "Having a good certification is almost everything."

The SM and DPM of Singapore are actually multi-lingual people. They can speak many local tongues of Singapore like Tamil, Chinese, English, Malay very well. And we have seen them demonstrating it over the past few years over national Day Rally. I don't remember SM or DPM saying that it is impossible to master both tongues. If they did say something like that, then why do they still insist on all the different races of Singapore to master their own tongue as well as english? Wouldn't they be slapping themselves in their faces by saying such contradicting things? And also, they have very good command in Chinese, English as well as Malay. Don't look down on them, just because they are always seem speaking in english. They don't speak often doesn't mean they are not fluent in them. That's judging a book by its cover.

A reply to your question about why Singlish is so "dominant" in Singapore. Let's look at it this way:
America, British, Australia and New Zealand. All these countries have their own tongue in English. Now, why can't Singapore have our own tongue? Is there any wrong in having an english tongue that belong only to the heart of Singaporean? If there IS wrong, then why can America, British, allowed to have their own tongue? Wouldn't that be violating the freedom of human rights?
Everyone wish to have something that everyone can refer to as "OURS", and also as you said. Singapore is a mulit-racial country. It is a hub for different races, and naturally, each race will have their own tongue in English, thus it will cause alot of confusions in terms of communication, as each of us will be saying the same word in different way. So, our "ancestors" have thought of this. "Why not we come up with an english tongue of our own and called it something like [Singlish], where everyone of us can understand clearly among all races?" now that's just something I made up, to make it sound humorous :p
But, actually english in Singapore evolved naturally into Singlish, due to the fact thtat Singapore has many races and many more dialects. And after many years, people find that this "Singlish" is very suitable and most of the races can understand easily and immediately. Thus, Singlish is born. But having singlish doesn't mean we allow "Broken English". Singlish is just a tongue that we Singaporean can identify as our own tongue in English and feel close to heart whenever we use it. Go and flip through the latest edition of Oxford or Cambridge dictionary and you will be able to find "Singlish" in them. Now, that is something that we singaporean should feel proud about. A tongue we created and getting recognised internationally.

Words like "Leh", "Lor", "wor", "Wah lau." they are words of expressions. These are the words that make Singlish stand out among other tongues that just play around with the prononuciation of words.

In the past, people used to be confused about "Broken English" is "Singlish". Now that's wrong. Broken english is broken english. Singlish is just english with Singaporean flavour to it. DPM and SM are not discouraging people from speaking Singlish, but discouraging from speaking in broken english.

In ITE and Polytechnic, we have alot of hands-on work and that's true, BUT that doesn't mean that we speak poor english or broken english. In school, we still speak english and good perfect Singlish as a matter of fact. Sometimes we will switch to speak our own tongue with our own race. Like mi, i'll speak chinese with some of my chinese frenz. I have lecturers in Poly that actually speaks Singlish to us during tutorials but she also speaks good english, so adding collabrating Singlish isn't so difficult for her at all.

I have english teachers in my school and my neighbourhood schools that speak good english and also speak good singlish as well and have great command in english.

Not saying that I'm insulting your intelligence or whatever. But there are actually, englishmen who fail their english badly but does extremely well in other languages, and I have met quite a few of them. Now, that's something fresh for you to think through why they are like this.

Just a little side track: In debates, there's no need to "call" for people who share the same views as you do. If you do so, that means you're not strong enough at your stand of your own view of the topic.

Side Track 2: People please Go back to the topic on "Whether Education system in Singapore Is "encouraging" Singlish"

dazzlette

08-02-2004, 11:18 AM

Well, I think the majority of people will not be able to master both very well, but I still think that the majority can master both languages decently enough. You don't need to have very high level of English or Chinese to be understood decently in either language do you?

Anyway charmian, don't you find all this tiring? this debate is really going nowhere. I see your point but I certainly don't agree with it.. that's all.

charmian

08-02-2004, 11:32 AM

:glug: *Clear Throat*
Well well well..another 'NO' reply. as far as i'm concern, i'm strong in my point of view and thank you for pointing That out. Plus, thats a great post to start with. =) nice english.

WELL, i would like to start with the fact that people aorund this debate might just have been mistaken about singlish and broken english. singlish is simply just about adding words to your sentances while broken english means to say that you speak in incomplete sentances. However, come take a look at this phrase.

i dunno Y sum ppl r born liddat which means i dont know why some people are born like that[B] Thats singlish? OR shortforms?

Plus, (i'm getting tried of typing long long posts. =X pardon me for my sloppiness) reason why schs are classified is due to their ability. which come to means that the students have great ability to understand certain things, such as, was we are talking about here, english. You do knwo abt peer pressure right? with peers speaking english, you tend to speak it too. With peers, speaking not good english, you tend not to speaking good english too. In such cases, 'good' sch students know WHAT is really english and singlish and wouldnt have the idea of putting them down into cpmpositions. SO..i would like to pull you back into the question..is education system buliding up singlish of our singaporeans.

1) FRIENDS. you only got them around in sch to mixed with, well, with the most of your 24 hours. esp when they're multi racial and well, mandrian, tamil and malay gets into english. YOu think kids will not learn them. Of course they will!!

i'll continue next time, my hands are hurting!! HAHA

dazzlette

08-02-2004, 11:47 AM

I would say i dunno Y sum ppl r born liddat is a mixture of Singlish and shortforms. But of course, I don't know why some people are born like that is easier to understand than i dunno Y sum ppl r born liddat

Yes let's get back to the main point. Are Singapore schools breeding Singlish speakers? I would say no. It's not the fault of schools. The reason we speak Singlish is because of our multi-cultural heritage. There's nothing wrong with Singlish. It's just that we must use it in the right context.

charmian

08-02-2004, 11:49 AM

Would anyone explain here whats shortforms and singlish? As i think tat it makes a great deal of difference. =) thanks a lots for the reply..but i'm still standing straight on my propective. =)

http://jay-chou.net/forums/showthread.php?p=245790#post245790

just a poll for people to put in their view about whether singlish should be allowed in jc.net

MY hands are shaking off ist joints. haha

Squall

08-02-2004, 03:55 PM

i personally think that Singlish are those with la,leh,lor and those sound..
short forms are you-->u
:wink2:

Suede

08-02-2004, 04:12 PM

well.. thinks its alright for people to speak singlish as long s people konws when to use it really.. singlish isn't anything that degrading or anything adverse.. if fact it is something unique tt we have and this was the view i got fm some foreigners..

and of course alot boils down to the family background rather than the schools education system i think.. and yes not all top students come fm english speaking family.. chinese speaking family normally places more emphasis on chinese values and the importance of mandarin and written chinese which is correct..

laruku

08-02-2004, 07:47 PM

*SINGLISH TOPIC CLOSED*

please DO NOT post anything regarding singlish in this thread.

new topic:

Singapore is an Democratic Country. Discuss.

ene

08-03-2004, 03:51 AM

Defining democracy according to www.dictionary.com

1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

Personally, I've never really felt that Singapore is a true 100% democratic society. I have loads of examples in my head but it's 9.45am and I haven't had coffee so here are just my rambles. How many times have you read of opposition leaders being thrown into jail or exiled from the country because they spoke up against the government ? I can think of Mr Chee Soon Juan, the very outspoken leader of the opp. team. The other guy, Mr Jeyaratnam (I think ?) is now standing outside City Hall MRT station hawking his book against the government. I see him everyday when I take the train home and am surprised he's not been arrested yet.

Does democracy mean that a country's people are given the right to speak out and not be shot down ? Are they given the right to speak what's on their mind, even at the risk of offending the governemnt ? How many times have you seen or heard friends clam up and whisper "oh, better not say. Scully gahmen come and arrest me" (sorry for the singlish but am just trying to bring my point across). I've encountered that many times and honestly, my foreign friends are usually quite amused by the behaviour.

Do you read the Straits Times ? Does anyone realise that the paper has very strong inclinations towards government policies ? Take the recent takeover of our new Prime Minister. Did anyone notice the HUGE coverage the ST gave to a write-up on Mr Lee Hsien Loong's "family side" ? The good thing is, the government tends to give the public every reason to believe why a new policy is good for everyone. It's not a case of "I tell you, you go and do it". It's more like "This is good for you so do listen to me".

That's enough rambling from me. Time for coffee.

laruku

08-03-2004, 04:17 AM

for more articles on this topic, check out these sites:

singapore window (http://www.singapore-window.org/sw03/030623sd.htm)

i have another article written by X'Ho(or Chris Ho) but its an email and its way too long to cut & paste here... will find another way to do it later tonight.

HaNaBi

08-03-2004, 04:48 AM

Can Singapore ever become a 100% "freedom of speech" country? I guess not. Even USA, considered to be the "Most Speech Freedom" Country on this planet, isn't 100% democratic. There are still alot of propogranda going on. So, it's the same thing over at Singapore. The government still wish to have control over things.

Why don't we see people getting thrown into jail or getting punished servely like Indonesia or Philippines over here at Singapore? Well we do have some examples which have been stated by [ene]. But that is like just 1/10000 of the Singapore population, that dare to stand up for their views and voice out their dislikes about what the government has been doing.

I remembered i did a project when I was in Poly year 1 regarding this topic. My group came up with some questions and ask for their opinions in a survey and surveyed nearly 300 people on the streets of Singapore from all walks of life. And we had a result that 200 out of 300 people either dare not voice out their opinions, keep quiet or just talk about it in private spaces like Coffee shops or at home. Why is this so? What are Singaporean so afraid that prevented them from speaking up for things they find wrong?

But on our project we did have a common answer, and that is how we have been brought up. Since young we have been brought up in an environment that is "Listen, do it and don't say anything about it." How many times have our parents said: "Shhhhh... Ah Boy ah. "Diam" [keep quiet] ah. Don't anyhow say these kind of things. If you dun't know anything just shut up. If not later you will get arrested" [Pardon for the singlish as well] I was thinking "What's wrong with speaking up for my own views? It's like Singapore is beginning to be an Open-Minded Country, so why can't we say what we don't like? It's not like Singapore is a communist Country?"

And why do the older generations always like to use "Mada" or "police" to "threathen" us from speaking out our views? I've seen news articles and Chinese Debate TV shows on this issues and alot of them have the same answers. There were a few reporters that went to places like COffee shops to discuss certain Political issues, and behind the camera, they can say out alot of things like how they feel, how the government could have done better. But when asked to go on Camera, they immediately rejected and kept quiet, some even walked away. Nevertheless, the citizens of Singapore, still, have certain unspoken fear for the Government of Singapore.

But with that, then it will violate No3 meaning of "Democratic". where the common people has the largest influence on how the country should governed & who they want to govern their country.

Yes [ene] I do agree with you that ST has a very very extensive coverage of the new DPM, or may I say too extensive. Even my dad stayed tune to the 10pm news each night to watch the news on the Hand-over and kept praising the new DPM. Cause myself think "Hand over, just hand over lah. Why Must Make such a big Ho ha, about these things? If you're a good ruler, you're a good ruler, no need these type of "advertising"...." I have alternate views on him, but I reframed myself from talking about them with my dad, cause he will give the same answers as my mum...

Still I summarize my first post that Singapore is only partially Democratic, because the government still have a big big control over how the things should be done. Still minority rules. Common people only have "power" during elections. And there's a creditable social equality and respect in Singapore. Still, Singapore still has a long long way to go before becoming what we call a real Democratic Country.

smilepiggy

08-04-2004, 04:20 PM

hmm, wat can i say. i think sg is generally ... democratic... of course, i dont think you would have a country which is like 100 per cent democratic anyway. agree? nvm. :)

the listen shut up thing? i do agree that we were told to do that when we were young, but i alos see the government trying to open up sgreans' thinking and creativity a bit huh? i think the effort is there, it just takes time for things to flow and for the next generation to be um... more innovative and stuff.

Democratic? in as many ways, i think the govt had tried to give some leeway to be truly democratic? but not all i suppose:D

macdawn

08-04-2004, 04:48 PM

I guess I am so used to the system, that I am more likely to say we are pretty demoncratic.... I am not sure about this freedom of speech and freedom of rights, because I do see the pros and cons of such a system.

Everytime I see Taiwanese/Hong Konger doing one of those many demonstrations they have, and seeing them going for the throats of the people who oppose them. And seeing them fight in the parliament... I am pretty happy I am not in there....

Sometimes I do feel that, the kind of society that we are living in, in necessary so that we could achieve what we had within so short a time. It would not have been possible had we stopped to listen to every voice along the way. I know it sounds a bit unfair, but sometimes personal rights need to be sacrificed for the good of many.

Just like during the SARS period, we had to do something really drastic to stop the situation from happening..... and the terrorists threats, initially, the Americans were like protesting against such invansion of privacy, but after Sep 11, they all understood that in such times, they have to forgo their personal rights for the public welfare

As for the matter on Chee Soon Chuan, I admit, I am very disappointed in him. During the election, he was still okay, I understood what he was saying. I even went for one of his rally parties. But after that encounter with PM Goh, his anxiousness to show, kinda become arguing for the sake of arguing...

And as he go along, I really find lesser and lesser reason to side with him, like the time when he tried to start a demonstration outside the Istana and making a junk lot of noise. He was like talking on top of his voice but I don't hear what he's saying. And I have seen him in Yishun, selling his Opposition Party newsletter, but when saw it was him, I got turned off... I really like Chiam See Tong, and I admire him for a lot of things he said...

-MacDawn

scarletwillow

08-05-2004, 04:22 AM

OK foreigner here, better watch out :P
(original discussion migrated from F54)

Ene:
By socially oppressed, I mean about the gum thing... all that sort of stuff.
There's a lot of can-dos and can't-dos.

In modernized countries with powerhouse economies, prosperity is usually traded for morality. It's true--you can't progress without sacrifice... most of the time. Just look at any other recently-developed countries--Japan has maintained its culture, but we don't even need to mention how far its morality has dropped. Same with South Korea--those children are losing a bit of their culture with every percentage point that their currency grows. And Taiwan is going on the same path as South Korea, but much slower, thankfully (mainly due in part to the fact that the USA doesn't have a military base there)

SG makes a very unique trade-off in that the freedoms it shaves off don't quite affect the quality of life--in fact, they probably increase it. Democracy itself works and increases when more freedoms are given, and democracy is usually proportional to prosperity, which is inversely proportional to morality.

So by socially repressed, that's all I mean. I'd gladly not chew gum for a few years if it'll help out my country... without dumbing up the population!

HaNaBi

08-06-2004, 07:30 AM

It's a good point that you have pointed out Scarletwillow about how some countries, who have given much democracy to their citizens too quickly early on but their later generations had to face the consequences.

I remembered last semester there was a National Forum Talk, and the topic was on this as well, and now I still remember it, as there was a foreign student, whose speech stood out among all.
And as usual most of them would proclaim how unsatifisied they were with what the government has been doing. But this student stood up and slapped every "displeased" Singaporeans in their face.
He pointed out how other countries were given too much democracy too fast, and people began abusing it. examples, Taiwan, Japan, HongKong.
But it was his closing speech that shocked everyone
Quote: "Take 2 cars travelling at 50km/h and 100km/h. Which one will receive a bigger damage when slammed into a wall? Of cuz it's the one at 100km/h. It will also be harder to repair or almost impossible to repair. That's almsot similar to some of the countries which has open up their country to democracy too fast. Singapore's government is actually trying to avoid moving at 100km/h, because if the government were to move forward at such a fast speed, the current generations will not suffer from the effects but it is the later generations that will suffer. So it is better to slowly increase the speed, correct wrong doings along the way, rather than move too fast and later on repair all the wrongs all at once, by then it might be too late as the damage done is already too deep"

And on the chewing Gum issue, it was actually part of the Government's "Clean & Green" campaign. Sometimes I would wish to have chewing gums in Singapore, but thinking back that people might anyhow dispose chewing gums, I am glad that the Government ban Chewin gum.

laruku

09-12-2004, 08:45 AM

Thought i revive this. This topic was thought of as an aftermath of the recently concluded Yes933 Singapore Hit Awards. I was unable to watch the telecast but I heard the ceremony on radio. To be honest, I thought it was boring. What do the rest think?

New topic:

Singaporean Radio DJs. Good or Bad?

smilepiggy

09-12-2004, 11:35 AM

hmm, i was quite shocked by the topic, as in Singaporean DJs, my first though was those radio DJS.

Actually do you mean those radio DJs or those pub DJs? :?

petricia

09-12-2004, 01:15 PM

:hmm: i will take it as radio dj..
I feel that the previous djs were better. I used to listen to 93.3/ 100.3 (ufm) everyday and night... but after Zheng Rong and Jun Wei left the radio stations.
Somehow, the current Dj just don't have the appeal to me... :?

laruku

09-12-2004, 01:47 PM

Sorry for the confusion. I meant the radio DJs. Though I thought it was rather clear when I mentioned about the Singapore Hit Awards.

HaNaBi

09-13-2004, 05:03 AM

It's alright, maybe you can just make your topic clearer like "Singapore Radio DJs. Good or bad?"

I attended the award. During the Red Carpet session, I was rather bored by the DJs/Hosts, partly was due to the fact that they kept repeating a few things and partly was because of the bad traffic jam in the Central Business District, causing the Red Carpet Ceremony to delay for about 20mins.

The only DJ in YES933, which I feel is the most outstanding will be Zhou Cong Qin. Firstly, he's one of the most senior DJs there, thus he should be the one with the most experiences, and also I personally feel that he has very quick wit and fast mouth and very good command of chinese. The other DJs...Nah..I personally feel that they have a very long way to go, in terms of their stage presences, the way they handle each program and listeners, their quick wit and fast mouth...

I too feel that after zheng Rong and Jun Wei left the station, I really don't listen to YES933 much. In the past I used to tune in to the Late Night program hosted by both of them, but after they left, I kind of give it a miss...
And I think that most teenage girls listened to YES933 was because of Zheng Rong and Jun Wei... Right SG girls?

smilepiggy

09-13-2004, 10:49 AM

hmm, i'm sorry for asking! :shy:

Radio DJs, hmm, i always thought that 933's DJs are better than UFM. cos once i listened to UFM and its like i am falling asleep mood and the DJ was just talking away. (anyhow, i prefer 933's choice of songs)

If its radio DJs in general, i think probably , laruku, your boring experience was because they are more comfortable over air than hosting. The diff is the number of people you see. :sweat: , so probably that's the reason they couldnt quite interst us :? but i myself is quite erm... excited during the awards cos i'm a self-high person, i get super excited over no reason sometimes :shy:

In 933, i thought Mary Bukom is also not bad :? She and Dennis Zhou together make a hilarious pair! :D hahas. and Lin Lin Zi, i like the programs that she host on air, its always soothing and heart warming.

blu3crush

09-13-2004, 12:01 PM

Nowadays, radio DJ doesn't have the appealing factor for me to tune onto the radio. I will switch the channels whenever the DJ is coming in. The DJ, basically are boring that they doesn't have new topics to talk on at all. I was like, they had been talking repeatedly... why are you reporting again. --;; Overall, they are not good enough to have the factor to let me stay on the radio and listened to their talking.

In quality, they are not up the mark yet.

That's my view.

petricia

09-19-2004, 01:26 PM

Well... at least the two of them (Jun Wei and Zheng Rong) are really good at talking... at least i think so... maybe because of their experience, when they are talking, they seems to make much more sense.

Zhou Cong Qing is not bad... just that he is not my type of DJ....

lattae

09-19-2004, 05:51 PM

I guess I am not really fussy when it comes to DJs, since I think the SG dJs are pretty much the same in terms of standard anyway. None of them being seriously outstanding.I don't have a "those were the good o' times" feel, in the sense that I don't really miss any DJs, and I never thought anyone really impressed me terribly.

DJs that will make it to my "good" list would probably be Feng Hui Shi (cos of her ever bubbly tone which never fails to cheer me up), to a certain extent Chong qing and Mary (when they are together)... flying dutchman... and to some extent Glenn (for being able to go there... and not going too far... when it comes to touchy topics). Of the list, I think the "weakest" will be chong qing... I never quite liked him when he's alone... he sounds lunatic when he laughs at his own jokes which ware often not that funny... But when he's paired up with a female DJ, somehow, sparks fly... I think he brings out the best of his partner when it comes to co-hosting. Oh... nearly forgot someone... WEn Hong... he's not bad... just... tends to wander off into his own world as he talks.

DJs I don't like is DANIEL ONG... FAKE and always copying Glenn :rasp: gets on my butt big time. and erm... that guy from Dream FM... what's his name again?!? erm... but the latter is not his fault, I just don't happen to like voices that deep :shy:

dazzlette

09-19-2004, 09:41 PM

Well, I don't really find our local DJs very outstanding either. Most of them have nice voices to listen to ( That's a basic requirement for being a DJ I feel. ) But in terms of like quick wit etc, most of them don't really make it, especially the Chinese DJs. I can't stand it when DJs make stupid cutesey or cheesy comments. It totaly puts me off.

I kinda like Zhou Cong Qing (what's his English name?) but not when he's alone. He laughs too loud abd often, it's at his own jokes. But I think his pairing with Mary is pretty good now. At least theys chemistry between the 2 and their time slot is perfect for goofing around.

Ling Zhi is pretty not bad too. Her voice is perfect for Yin Yue Ri Ji (Music Diary) cos it's soothing and it's nice to listen on a quiet night.

I've always liked Jean Danker. I think she has one of those perfect radio voices. And she's not crude or rude ever.

Speaking of Dasmond Koh, I find it such a pity that he left radio to venture into TV. I really liked him. He should go back.

laruku

09-20-2004, 02:50 AM

I think my favourite will be BaoBao. I particularly liked how she had made her radio plays and came up with all sorts of nonsense to make her slot really much more interesting than any other DJs. I'll bet most people tuned in to her Ou Tu Ju Chang.. And took notice of her Jin Zhu Jiang..

For the rest, I still think that they are not doing their homework especially when they interview artistes. They always ask silly questions that everybody has heard of so many times, like rumours... :rolleyes: Nothing exciting ever comes out of listening to the radio anymore.

lepencil

09-20-2004, 03:14 AM

I kinda like Zhou Cong Qing (what's his English name?) but not when he's alone.
I believe that would be Dennis. That's if my memory serves me right, after having "stayed away" from radio for a few years now.

I've not really been listening to radio that regularly for the past few years now, and frankly, I don't think I've really missed that much. Most of the faces/voices are still the same ones, and the newer ones, I frankly do not know much about them to be able to talk about them.

Perhaps that has got to do with the reason I would tune in. I want to listen to the newer songs being played on-air; not listen to "faceless" voices over and over again. But on the few occasions I've chanced upon the on-air interviews, I must agree with laruku that the DJs don't appear to have done their homework. Perhaps they should hang out in MacDonalds and "study" more often. :tongue:

laruku

11-28-2004, 04:47 AM

Heya people! New topic!

The Chinese Language Issue - Will Bilingualism work? Is our Chinese standard deteriorating?

With the lightening of the Chinese textbooks and the reducing of things to learn for Chinese, together with the increasing use of English as the main language system, the government is trying to make learning Chinese less stressful for the students now. But will learning about root words and Han Yu Pin Yin really help Singaporean students appreciate and learn Chinese? Or will it be good for passing exams only? Will bilingualism work in Singapore? Or will we simply be a Jack of the 2 languages but a master of none? Will learning two languages concurrently hinder the progress of each language system individually? Will it be better to learn just one language?

Okie people!! Bring it on!!!!! Here we go again!

edit:
Some articles to ponder over
Bilingualism - Keeping To It & Making It Work (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/singapore/story/0,5562,287383,00.html?)
Reforms not 'Sugar Coating' (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/singapore/story/0,5562,287220,00.html?)
Textbook Load to be lighter from next year (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/singapore/story/0,5562,287225,00.html?)
Language Learning Reforms Approved (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/topstories/story/0,5562,287395,00.html?)
Focus on Quality, Not Quantity (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/singapore/story/0,5562,287035,00.html?)

LuVeRjAy

11-28-2004, 05:00 AM

I feel that it'll be better to learn two languages or more.. I'm coping fine with Chinese,English and higher chinese despite coming from a non-chinese family...
My English is normally the better one over Chinese but the latter is normally just trailing several marks behind.. I've yet to have a taste of what Secondary school or JC is like but getting A* for both my Chinese and English is the norm for me

When i was in lower primary, i detested learning Chinese only in 2003 an 2004 did i pick up Chinese apparently through Chinese Pop and better Chinese teachers..

My opinion is that when you learn chinese, you don't just learn it for the sake of passing exams. it'll be a waste when you already start learning it but you don't put it to good use :wink2:

fukakyon

11-28-2004, 05:14 AM

It's actually a hard decision. At this point, we are used to the education system. We can't say to abolish mandarin out completely just like that. I sincerely believe that, as a chinese, we should at least know how to communicate in mandarin. Apart of recongising English as our local primary language, it's equally important to master English too.

I think that it's actually quite hard to master both languages, if you are good in mandarin, you'll fared poorly in english (that's me) and vice versa, but it can be done.

My point: I choose the option of conducting both english and mandarin concurrently. What happens if we lost mandarin, hence Jay. *lol*

hisashiluv14

11-28-2004, 01:25 PM

To be perfectly honest, the grades that you get for Chinese is not always a true reflection of your real ability in the language. I got an A2 for my AO Level Chinese and a merit (I think) in oral, even though my Chinese is horrendously atrocious, a fact that can be attested to by my dad who's a Taiwanese with amazingly brilliant Chinese. And when I was in secondary school, people who spoke Mandarin worse than me got an A1 for their O Level Chinese while I got an A2. It really made no sense.

In my humble opinion, the Chinese standard here is virtually non-existent. People simply cannot pronounce. Even fundamentals are being painfully slighted. Everyone knows that you have to pronounce "umbrella" as yu2 san3 and not yu3 san3 even though "yu", as in rain, is pronounced di san sheng. Right? We all know that right? But everywhere I go I hear people going, "Ay wo3 hen3 leng3 leh! you3 mei2 you3 yu3 san3 ah?"

God it makes me very irritated. My Chinese isn't good but at least I know what is good Chinese. I really don't know why people speak the way they do, because I don't, but my mom does. Haha. I don't know. It's weird.

Personally, I really believe that Singapore killed my Chinese. I grew up in Taiwan and when I came here to learn English, I kicked everyone's butts at Chinese. As the years passed though, my English became a lot better than my Chinese and now my Chinese has to pay the price for Singapore's myopic education system.

I'm fiercely defensive of my heritage and I love Chinese, but I don't think it's necessarily a good thing that the govt is paying more attention to Chinese now. You really have to question their intentions, and in my opinion, they're only doing it to exploit business opportunities in China. I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that my language is only worthy when there are economic benefits to be reaped. It's hideous and I find it really insulting. It's such a grotesque trivialisation of a great and rich language!

And since I'm cynical and bitter, I believe that bilingualism will never take root in a general sense. Those who are effectively so will always be confined to the top 5% or so of the population. And I also believe that youths will continue not to care about Chinese because they're swallow and stupid, and the hilarious thing is, simultaneously, their English continues to make me laugh. So what are we breeding then, eventually? People without a sense of their own culture, or deracinated hobos who are constantly drifting and rootless, and the ironic icing on the cake? They don't realise it at all.

Yes, that's what I believe, because I think I'm one myself. I would give up my command in English if it means that I'd be able to master my own language, because it means that much to me that I do. The only reason that would keep me here in a local uni and not overseas in an American one is just so I wouldn't stray even further from my cultural roots.

So what should we do? I don't know either. But we aren't doing things right, that's for sure. I guess it ultimately boils down to the individual. It has to come from the inside and nowhere else. Policy makers can only do so much.

rainbowballoon

12-04-2004, 03:46 PM

Will Bilingualism work? Is our Chinese standard deteriorating?

My answer to the 1st question is a: maybe. Like FuKaKyOn said, it's not easy to master two languages. Although we study both chinese and english, but bilingualism is pretty hard to achieve because more priority is placed in the english language than in the chinese one as it is our first language. But I suppose all of us are considered bilingual, but our english is not really that perfect (cos it's peppered with singlish) and our chinese is not that good either, on the whole. Why do I feel that I'm contradicting? :shy: I guess, to be truly bilingual, you have to break out and study hard by yourself, like Diana Ser. She is really a terrific bilingual speaker! :D

I am not sure about our chinese standard deteriorating. I feel that the learning of chinese has become more relaxed, what with Chinese B and lightening of chinese texts. To consider the subject as deteriorating, maybe we should compare past texts with current texts?

but I don't think it's necessarily a good thing that the govt is paying more attention to Chinese now. You really have to question their intentions, and in my opinion, they're only doing it to exploit business opportunities in China.

Yeah, the government seems to be placing more emphasis on the above, than on learning about the culture of our chinese roots. =\

I still believe that chineses need to know chinese and be able to speak mandarin, however basic.

smilepiggy

12-04-2004, 04:10 PM

Hmm, i also think that as chinese, we need to at least know how to communicate in chinese. Its not too necesary to um... speak perfect chinese with all the perfect diction like the people in china, but at least like daily communication... we should at least know it.

i take higher chinese, but i was actually quite bad in it for the past few years cos the teachers who taught it made it boring. i mean, i'm comfortable in both chinese and english, but definetly not with memorising words and stuff liek in exams.

The ultimate aim of studying any subject is for its practical application in daily life, isnt it? yep, at least to me, it is. so, we dun necessary have to um, write a lot of words... the least shld be to be able to use it and talk! :D hahas
am i out of point? :?

oNEgumDRop

12-06-2004, 11:56 AM

i think being chinese. i wld say we shld at least be able to communicate in chinese..
when i was young, i had a tuition teacher who made learning chinese fun.. thatz the reason i cld learn chinese so well.. and i was good in it too.. but when i stopped tuition.. and the teacher in school was so crappified and i was forced to cram chinese characters and meanings into my head.. my chinese deteriorated and now i suck at chinese..

i really wish i cld speak chinese well coz it really is a beautiful language.. i guess the gov shld find a way to make learning chinese fun and then will we embrace it and enjoy the language. another is our mindset. we alwayz think chinese is difficult and that we hate it and sorts.. if only we cld see the beauty in the language and see the extent to which we cld actually express ourselves in chinese.. chinese holds so much more depth than any language i know of..

if our parents can master the languages as well as they have, im sure we can do it too with the proper approach and mindset..

macdawn

12-06-2004, 12:57 PM

Will Bilingualism work? Is our Chinese standard deteriorating?
I think bilingualism will work, but only if the people educated under the system believe in the system. It would mean that the people who pick up both english and chinese (or their mother tongue) did it because they are interested in the languages.

Like for me, I came from a pure chinese speaking family. My parents didn't know a word of english, and my grandpraents only spoke Teochew. I didn't know any english before I went to primary school, and my first english writing composition test at primary 3, I handed in a blank piece of paper because I did not understand what the paper wanted me to write. :oops:

However, when I picked up reading after primary 3, my english improved, and I think I am effectively bilingual. I can speak english, and my non-chinese friends can understand me, and I can still read and write chinese pretty well.

However, I do disagree with hisashiluv14 when she said bilingualism is for the top 5% of the population. Heck, when I was in secondary school, the school made me drop Higher Chinese because my grades overall was deemed not good enough for the system. And I have so many friends who despite getting A1 for their Higher Chinese, and distinction for their oral, after they left secondary school, they can't even read a chinese newspaper or speak a proper sentence of chinese without sounding like an ang-moh. And me? I got A2 for my Chinese, and Merit for my Oral, I can go to Taiwan and speak like one of them.

I think the interest in the languages cannot be just 'taught'. It has to be something you believe in, and love before you will learn it and use it. Otherwise, people would just be going through the motion, memorising all the text and phrases, just so that they can do well in exams. But after they leave school, everything's got thrown away and forgotten. At least, that's what I think.

-MacDawn

oNEgumDRop

12-06-2004, 03:14 PM