[SG Talk] What would you tell a foreigner about SG?

[scarletwillow]

As someone who's seriously looking into maybe moving there whenever I have the money and independence...
What would you consider to be Singapore's high points? Low points?

[hisashiluv14]

Willy. You are kidding. You cannot be seriously considering moving here. Oh my god. Just wondering, WHY?

Okay, Singapore is not ALL that bad.

Good points:

1. Safe
2. Secure
3. Developed country
4. A nice variety of food
5. We get movies earlier than Britain and Australia
6. The government seems to value foreign talent more than local talent so a genius like you will find yourself right at home
7. Hmm, will continue this when I think of more.

Bad points:

1. Rigid censorship rules
2. Perpetual boredom
3. Conservative anal-retentive freaks who like imposing their morals on others
4. Crazy education system
5. Lack of creativity
6. A non-existent arts scene
7. A non-existent political scene
8. It becomes too small as you grow older

Hmm, I don't think I helped much. Perhaps my fellow Singaporeans would like to fill in my blanks? :)

[lattae]

yeah, you may argue that singapore is boring... but hey, i am not getting bored out as yet. I find new things to do every other day (I guess it depends on personality)

As for politics... Okay, there is like one party over here, all the better men/women are inducted into it... so when election comes along, they get walkovers and such... okay, there'll be small fries from the opposition who comes along, makes a fool of themselves and make you laugh. The very foolish or rash ones end up in jail. Level headed ones go right into parliment term after term.

You can say that there is no democracy... but end of the day, the government works (and pretty efficiently too)! so democracy or without things get done. So I am happy. you have america (and at this point TW) to provide you with all the politic "action"... and you get to stand back, laugh at them, and not having to live the effects of their rule... aint that cool?

although I lapse into the "I need someone to hear my views" mode from time to time... I still appreciate the gov for what it is in general...

oh... tho' I still grumble about public transport from time to time... but seriously, the public transport system is one of the best I've seen/heard... you can get to anywhere you want on this island, and pretty quick too... you travel the entire island on buses/train in less than 1.5 hrs for most journeys... (average journey is like half an hour for me though...) Which is why I nearly fainted the last time I was in america... the system at LA was crap compared to SG...

And ya, great food... in fact... call it fantastic food. you should really come here and try... :wink2:

Perhaps the down sides are that singaporeans are usually a lil' uptight (compared to westerners in general... I think it's an asian thing)... and erm the weather... it's hot... very hot... Aircon is like my life... Even my ex-prime minister (current senior minister) Mr. Lee Kuan Yew hails the air con as the most important invention of mankind... so you get the idea. (good thing is you need only one set/type of clothes to go all year round... no winter wear required :laughing:)

[dazzlette]

Woah.. As much as I love Singapore, I don't see why anyone would want to move here. Singapore is a beautiful place and the honestly the only reasons why I would continue to stay here is because my family and friends are here and it is my land of birth.

If you are looking for employment opportunities here, I'd say that Singapore isn't really the place to be. I would say China is place to go (especially if you're good at Chinese) But hey, hisashiluv14 has mentioned, there is a bias here in favour of foreign talent so maybe if won't be so bad for you. Also, the cost of living ain't exactly very low either (ok let's not compare with countries like Japan!)


Hmm.. I can't really think of anything else right now cos most of it has already been said. My American uncle likes it here cos it's safe, he can communicate with almost everyone here (unlike in HK where he previously worked) , he thinks the education here is good and he likes the Asian value system that is still quite prevalent here.

[scarletwillow]

Hmm, the high points you guys mentioned are exactly the reasons why I'm thinking about it.

Mainly safety and values. And I'm really impressed with the way the justice system works, believe it or not. I tend to lean towards right-wing fascism in political theory, so nyah :P
Another thing I see is that everyone there seems to be multilingual. I know English is an official language... which form of Chinese is also official? I'm guessing mandarin? What language do you guys speak in, most of the time? To each other... on TV... formally... etc.
My mandarin is *really* bad.
I dunno, I see Singapore as one of the more sane countries in Asia. It's very uniform, and the people there tend to be conformists I think, from all the people I've spoken to in the past.

And it seems cool O_o There are a lot of Singaporean people on the net... I mean like, how big is the city? I used to go to two other SG forums, and like... they would have meets all the time, and I'd be like... hey now... I wanna go too...

[lattae]

Jialiu, well, the education system is an english one (meaning all subjects are taught in english except other languages)... and it's mandatory that we all learn a mother tongue, depending on your race... Chinese learn mandarin... on the streets, you are likely to hear singlish, local variety of the english language which mixes in words for every language used on this lil' island.... confusing at first, but it gets pretty cool (sad thing is that some of us can't break free)... dialects are still used, especially with older folks... What language we use depends really on who are are hanging out with... some prefer chinese, some singlish... some english... let's just say that you'd be understood in all 3 :wink2:

and our country... well, doesn't technically have any city... it's way too small... it's like 20+ by 40+ km ... 600++ kilometres square... (sorry I am not too good with figures)... someone once told me that LA in itself is 20 odd times bigger than singapore... let's just say if you take a car, travelling at reasonable speed on the highway across the island... you'd take at most 45min end to end...

and, Call me the ultimate self contradicting fool... but it's like I love democracy... but I feel that sometimes democracy doesn't deliver as efficiently... and in some places it degrades to hypocracy...

So as long as my government doesn't get too oppressive, I am well and fine... Hey, they are efficient... you can call me a "Neo-Nazi"... as long as it works... I don't see what's wrong... I think political 'leanings' in practice has to suit the culture/location/economy and lots of factors...

In SG context, yah, we get little say/debate on new policies... but hey, it gives us and edge over other places in the region. We are capable of adapting fast, so that we can remain relevant... Change comes quick... things are effective... the SARs thing is a good example... I am not saying the SARs incident was superbly handled by SG gov, but I'd say they did try their best... and it was pretty good... compare us to other places where there's full outbreak...

[dazzlette]

Mainly safety and values. And I'm really impressed with the way the justice system works, believe it or not. I tend to lean towards right-wing fascism in political theory, so nyah :P
Another thing I see is that everyone there seems to be multilingual. I know English is an official language... which form of Chinese is also official? I'm guessing mandarin? What language do you guys speak in, most of the time? To each other... on TV... formally... etc.
My mandarin is *really* bad.
I dunno, I see Singapore as one of the more sane countries in Asia. It's very uniform, and the people there tend to be conformists I think, from all the people I've spoken to in the past.

And it seems cool O_o There are a lot of Singaporean people on the net... I mean like, how big is the city? I used to go to two other SG forums, and like... they would have meets all the time, and I'd be like... hey now... I wanna go too...

Hahaha well have you heard of Singlish? It's a mix of English, Chinese (Mandarin and other dialects, mostly Hokkien though) and Malay. Don't worry, it's not difficult. Many ang-mohs (caucasians) have managed to pick it up). Don't worry, as long as you can speak English, communication should be the last of your worries.

I agree with you that Singapore is more sane than other Asian countries. It's so uniform cos the government runs it well. But then again, it's so small that it's probably easier to run it than most other places. As for people being conformists, I would say it's more like the average person would rather conform than to trouble themselves unnecessarily. Why try to oppose the government when I still have a job and food on my table?

Our city is very small area wise. (Can't quote the statistic right now.. argh!) but as a joke, we are known as a tiny red dot on the world map. Our population is about 4 million a large proportion made up of foreigners. (Don't quote me on this but I think there are more than half a million of them!) Well, I suppose there are 2 reasons why you always see Singaporeans on the Net.
1)Almost every household in Singapore has a computer and internet connection. (Again don't quote me but I think it's about 80%)
2)You probably mostly visit English websites and most Singaporeans are fluent enough in English and educated to participate in these forums

[moonsilk]

I agree with hisashiluv14...
Singapore can be boring but its one of the safest place to be in in the world!!
There are no natural disasters here...so u and ur house will be safe...
But one thing i can assure is the food here...
There are lots of varieties and u can enjoy eating everyday...haha...
Singapore is more Americanised due to globalisation...
But i believed that the Asian values here are not lost...
So if u want,come here!!

[scarletwillow]

There are a lot of foreigners there?
Hmm...

Well, without getting TOO far into political theory...
Lattae, I have to agree with you. Democracy is good, but truly, fascism is the only way to protect your people completely. Don't call yourself a Neo-Nazi though! Nazis are fascists that are anti-Semitic. Basically, fascism with racism as a basis.

Hehe... small country huh? I actually didn't know it was an island. I thought it was just like, an independent country-city that was on the outskirts of a bordering nation. Are there beaches there? ^.^

The government does indeed seem really interesting there. So the public view of the government isn't too good? I didn't know they executed so many people, either. I'm glad crime rates are really low, though... safety will always be a first concern if I'm gonna have a family ^.^

And yeah, I'm still wondering where I want to live. I don't want to live in the United States due to the racism here, as well as economic predictions (US loses world power status within 50 years, wars, etc)...

Here's something that I wanna know though, pertaining to nationalistic tendences.

Do most Singaporean-Chinese, consider themselves Chinese or Singaporean first?

[dazzlette]

Yeah, there are a lot of foreigners here. The immigration laws here aren't very strict and if you're educated and skilled, you can obtain PR status in no time.

Well, most of our beaches aren't natural beaches. They are mostly man-made. The longest stretch of beach here would probably be our East Coast beach, which is actually reclaimed land. It ain't exactly very nice and I personally find it rather dirty. Another famous beach would be the one on an off-shore island of ours called Sentosa. The beaches there are cleaner (cos there are people who regularly maintain it) and it caters to mainly to tourists.

I don't think Singaporeans in general dislike the government that much. Even though they complain a lot about them, they still get elected in time and time again. I guess it's also cos the opposition here is rather weak, and there isn't really any credible opposition candidates to vote for(mainly cos the ruling party PAP grabs the good people first).

They regard themselves as Singaporeans first. I believe the same would go for the ABCs in America?

[scarletwillow]

Hmm, so the government is sorta one-sided? Well, I'd expect that for most non-American/Euro nations, I guess.

As for ABC's, it sorta depends. It really does depend on where they live. I find that the ones who live in predominantly white communites consider themselves Americans (and go as far as throw away their Chinese heritage, even calling themselves white). The ones in predominantly large Chinese communities tend to consider themselves Chinese, but also tend to be generally more racist and hateful.
People like me, who live in cities where there is a substantial, but scattered Chinese population, tend to be the most nationalistic (in an intelligent way), I think. Well, I was born in Beijing, so that might be why.

I dunno, but cultural and ethnic identity are incredibly important to me. Despite that nationalism most certainly breeds a type of racism, I think it's healthy for the country and its people.

And another reason I like Singapore is because it doesn't appear to be a puppet nation run by any other country, unlike most Asian nations (unfortunately).

[ho_yt]

Most of you have said the things I want to say about Singapore but everyone have some points that all of you never mention, that is sg is also a garden city, its clean and green as you can see alot of trees went you leave the airport so this is also one of the reason you foreigners like to come here. The next point is that sg is also a shopping pardise, it have a lot of shopping centers too, exspecially in Orcard Road.

[moonsilk]

Yeah...Singaporeans identify themselves as Singaporeans first...thats for sure..no racism...we r a multi racial country...hahaha...
Although ppl may complain bout the govt,they will still support them...cos in our hearts,we noe that the govt has done a lot for the ppl...

[hisashiluv14]

Personally, I identify myself first as a Chinese, then a Singaporean, because I believe that ethnicity is inherent while nationality is more transient. I mean, my being a Singaporean wasn't a conscious choice on my part; my parents somehow gave birth to me while they were here. But I could've been a Taiwanese if my mom hadn't decided that I'd need to learn English in order to survive in the future.

My race, however, is something that I can never change. It's something I've come to realise recently, after a few years of teenagehood wasted on trying to be Western... :dry:

Still, I'd have to say that it's amazing how integrated the different races here are. Compared to other nations (India, Sri Lanka, Northern Ireland, even Taiwan) we're like, bloody racially harmonious, man! It can get rather disturbing sometimes... like I don't know, I'm still wondering why the Malays and the Indians aren't protesting at the lack of subtitles in their respective mother tongues in cinemas because subtitles are always in Chinese. I mean, obviously Chinese is the majority race (70% or so) and so yadayadayada but in other countries, there would've been SOME protests at the very least.

I don't dislike the government. In fact, I am quite proud of its non-corruptness and its efficiency. But of course there are certain policies that I don't agree with. It's only inevitable. Then again, when one looks at the alternatives, one would tend to be quite glad that one is stuck, so to speak, with the PAP. :)

But seriously, cost of living here is quite high. I don't really understand all of it but my dad is always complaining about medical bills and things related to healthcare. Then again, he's a PR so maybe that's the cause. I don't know.

Oh, and the government strongly discourages the use of dialect here. i think the reason for it was that it divides the Chinese population (correct me if I'm wrong). Rather absurd, because Hong Kong movies are always horribly dubbed in mandarin when they come here and that really annoys me but what to do, right?

What dialect do you speak, by the way Jlo? since you said your mandarin isn't very good.

And we're definitely not a puppet country. At all. Very much independent, thank you very much. :)

[Melvin]

Hmm... Well most of the things have already been said... But I'll state some things and my opinions about singapore...

Well... firstly... People here are sort of friendly... and then there peace and safety here... There aren't any street demonstrations, gang fights or whatsoever, overall a relatively safe and secure place...

About Politics.. well... there just one main political party here.. and thats the PAP... occasionally there would be just some small opposition who comes along and thinks they can win the election.. But of course the PAP always wins and so there's no much action at the political scene level, which to me, is a good thing, because I think the PAP does a good job.

I would have to agree with what most people said that Singapore is SMALL... But I wouldn't really say that you'll suffer from boredom... I mean like there are so many shopping centres and food centres and many other things... But yes after awhile you can get bored after you've experienced everything...

Okay and then on to the weather... it's usually 25-32 degree celcius... which is a relatively hot temperature... Luckily most of the buses and trains are air conditioned so it isn't really so bad..

And then... as some people have already said... Singapore is a relatively garden city... There are lots of trees and parks and most places are clean...

About our transport system, you can get almost anywhere on this island.. And its very organised not confusing.. Singapore is more developed.. And we have good racial harmony... No racial discrimination etc..

Living conditions aside, if you're here to work and earn money... all I can say is you would probably need good qualifications to find a decent job here... It may be hard to find a job here..

And then to the cost of living, things are more expensive, houses, and especially cars, are more costly than other countries.

Overall I'd rate singapore as not bad so I don't think it'll be a bad idea for you to come to Singapore... :)

[lattae]

actually I'd find it hard for me to call myself chinese... :oops: I'd rather be a singaporean on any day...

Why? because I've met too many rude, uncivilised Chinese (as in PRC)... I don't really want to be identified with them... I'd rather think of myself as singaporean than chinese... sorry, I know how biased I can get, but it's just my life experience... besides I am not very "chinese" in the first place... and I have no qualms about letting others know it... I think singapore has defined me more as a individual than china ever did... so I'll be a Singaporean thank-you.

JLo, ahh... fascism... that's the word I've been hunting for... thanks... (on the other hand , I don't mind being a lil' nazi-ish, cos I actually, well, have hitler up on my list of fave dead guys... i like his wacky leadership, and believe to a certain extent that he did not mastermind the holocaust, at least not entirely... his anti-semitism is merely a commonly shared sentiment of the europeans at that time...)

[petheads]

Like lattae, my negative experiences with China Chinese way outweigh the positive ones. I must confess that I do not know many of them, but the people that I have interacted with at work or read about in papers or seen on the news have not left me with a good impression.

That's not to say that I don't see myself as a Chinese. I definitely do. Except that I will always put a qualifier in front - I am a Singaporean Chinese. I am proud to be both.

As for Singapore not being a puppet country, I do have my doubts on this matter. Many a times, I feel that our government does sing completely in tune with the superpowers. This is probably not strange, since we are a small nation and will probably fall quickly if should any of our neighbours become unfriendly. We need a Big Brother to rescue us in such times. Thus I often find Singapore allying ourselves with the stronger nations on certain issues (like the Iraqi war).

[scarletwillow]

Hmm :/
Well you Singaporeans better get ready for da PRC invasion of the world ^_~

But hey! There are some nice PRC'ers... like me... I'm nice, right? *spits on street*

Yeah, I know what you mean by like, dirty PRC'ers. It was pretty uncivilized when I visited Beijing, but y'know... I'm still proud of my people. Damned proud, and no matter what they do, I'll still stick behind it. After all, China is the only ancient civilization that has yet to crumble. We're still here! And I want to preserve it as much as possible...

I've posed this question before, but what do you SG'ers think about USA possibly making a military base in SG? The question has been brought up before by the Bush Administration.

As for Hitler, he was a damned fine politician. I disagree that anti-Semitism was rampant in Europe though... Europe was far too busy to deal with Jews in a hateful manner. Hitler just needed a scapegoat, and a source of free income. I do wish China would have a Hitler though... just as Hitler called for the reunification of Germans... hmm... with the Chinese, that is my twisted dream ^_~

[smilepiggy]

i have my fair bit oif 'experience' wiht both good and not - so-good PRCs... just last sat, i was sort of doing CIP educating others about crime prevention and there was this chinese lady who ... was so nice and willing to listen to us and all. (btw i spent 2and 1/2 hours taling to 17 households, and i'm one of the groups who spoke to so many households alr) then after we were done, she still say "xing ku ni men le" (its been hard on you all alr) and she even invited us for a drink inside her house, so.. i think not all PRCS are that bad, though some of them in my school (ht echinese scholars) are quite rude..

[scarletwillow]

>.<

*sigh*
It's been a bit of a shock for me to come on this forum and see what people think about my country's people ^_^()

Never knew PRC held such a low profile in other Asian countries populated by ethnic Chinese =/

[lattae]

you'd be surprised... I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this.... but personally, I would freak out and scream if someone calls me a PRC... (eg if I am overseas, I'd be so upset if they think I am from china...)

I don't know, perhaps it's the PRCs that are here spoiling my impression and all... :sweat:

[scarletwillow]

Nooooooooooooooooooo!!! ;______;

I dunno, I dun think you can blame them that much... mainland Chinese just don't have the same sort of ability to change themselves like other Chinese do... I mean... look at our history, look at our government. Us PRC'ers not only had to deal with shit like the Japanese taking over, but also the KMT oppressing us (then betraying us, then ditching us), and now the Communists ruling over our country with an iron fist...

There's just so much that's happened. I know the society there has a stigma against PRC, but still... it's just not fair =/

If the world helped China rebuild instead of Japan after WWII (like they should have), then China would be different...
If the world helped China rebuild after its civil war instead of siding with Taiwan (like they should have... after all, China IS the majority...), then China would be different...

Maybe I'm just scapegoating here, but I feel strongly about the issue.
And like Hitler, I reiterate that I do believe in a China for Chinese... Oh well, I'll just go take over the world now ;_;

[hisashiluv14]

China for Chinese? Would be hard to convince some of the people here. Myself included. :) I believe in independence for Taiwan. Can't blame me, considering it's practically my second home and the culture there is quite different from the one in China... I dunno, they're two dinstinct countries in my opinion. De facto independence is a good way to describe it. :)

But I don't really have bad impression of mainland Chinese or anything. I mean, there was some bullshit in the papers about how mainland Chinese women are perceived as husband stealers or whatever nonsense, and how Singaporean men are choosing mainland Chinese women over Singaporean women because they are more demure and less independent (what a gross generalisation), and some Singaporean women were upset over it, but for crying out loud, most Singaporean men are effing boring anyway. So who's loss is it? It's the men's. Hahahahahahaha.

But back to my point. I don't view mainland Chinese negatively, and neither do I think they're the best people in the world or anything. I guess I'm kind of neutral then.

But I AM very much looking forward to China becoming the world super power or whatever. I'm just tired of the emphasis always being placed on the West.

[scarletwillow]

Independence for Taiwan?
That's my worst fear, to tell you the truth.

The way I've always seen it, us falling apart is just not right. I mean, it's just a governmental difference... turned cultural difference... sooner or later, it'll become an ethnicity difference (keep in mind, ethnicity is defined by culture as well)...
That's definitely what I don't want.

As far as I can tell, China and Taiwan will never reunite with their current governments, so we'll just have to fix that, mm? ^_~

I dunno... I just don't want something like what happened to India and Pakistan. I still wanna say to all my Taiwanese friends, in the future... hey... we're all Chinese... we're all from the same place... we can get along :D

[hisashiluv14]

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't know, I still can't imagine a united Taiwan and China. It's like asking Singapore and Malaysia to become one country again and all singaporeans know THAT was one huge nightmare...

Okay, then again, not a very good analogy. Truth be told though, I don't think there would be an ethnic bridge between Taiwan and China. We all speak Mandarin, you see. And the dialects are still Chinese after all. makes sense? I dunno.

And here's something I've been thinking lately. All Chinese originate from China, right? The only reason I'm Singaporean is because my ancestors immigrated to Nanyang from China. And the true native Taiwanese are the ethnic minorities... don't know what you call 'em... the indigenous people, right? Yes, and right now the divide in Taiwan is between the mainlanders and the Taiwanese. Which is a crock of shit. The so-called native Taiwanese originated from China because they are Chinese. The TRUE Taiwanese are the indigenous people who aren't Chinese (I think?). So like, if we look at it this way, the divide in Taiwan holds no water at all because ultimately, at the root of it all, we are ALL from China originally. It's just that we have settled in different places due to the Chinese diaspora or whatever shit, is all.

[smilepiggy]

i'm not too for anyone in anyway.. our class had a debate and it just turned out that we all think that the issue should just be 'buried' ..wont that bring prosperity and no harm to both economies, and both prospering new economies can concentrtae on developing.. i mean, that seems like what they are doing now. however, sooner or later, some destroyer or should i say activist, or whatever would bring that topic up, and all the armed practices (miltitary stuff and all) ... yars, so i dont really noe..

[lattae]

well, I don't really agree in the "one root" theory... I firmly believe it's the "local context" that makes us who we are...

think of it this way, the chinese, the south east asians, or east asians in general, might have come from the same "ancestory" but does that necessary make us the same? perhaps the chinese, koreans, japanese, vietnamese etc are pretty close in terms of genetics and such, are we then supposed to be "the same" or "united" :? I doubt that...

Let's take a hypothesis, we take a caucasian baby, put her in china, and let her grow up in 100% "chinese" style (ie chinese family with little western influence), would she identify with her caucasians roots more or her chinese roots more? yeah, she may be curious/interested about her "natural" roots.. but doesn't mean she really feels closer to it???

In fact, I'd think the "one china" statement is pretty fallible... China, as defined today, is made up of many states, some states may not even want to be part of it in the first place. Eg the tibetians... the are so different from those in east china...

I think the same thing applies to Taiwan, or in fact HK. The people there have been brought up by a certain system, that is very much different from the Mainland... their thoughts, "culture" etc they differ... I don't think it's fair for the people to be trapped/be limited by a system no of their own... look at all the mess in HK despite the re-unification...

Perhaps in the past, nations are defined by race, eg England... but the modern states/nation are more often than not defined by ideals, political context etc... Look at indonesia, and india... they are not even of one race, they are there because they were ex-colonies, their colonial masters organised them that way; look at america, canada... they are together because they share the same beliefs behind their constitution...

TW and HK have evolved in ways that mainland china cannot imagine.... I support independence... Gah, I am just a firm believer of "self determination"

[macdawn]

I also agree that Taiwan shouldn't go back to China. Taiwan has evolved over the years, since the days when the Nationalist Party escape to the island, after the failed revolution.

The taiwanese people has grown and developed into a group of people very much different from the PRC people. If there should be a day Taiwan be unified with China, there will be so many conflicits, even worse than the kind that is currently raging in Taiwan now.

The taiwanese people have such intense people, with very very intense emotions..... They would probably beak away from China anyway....

On another topic.... I am really proud of Singapore, and I love everything about my country. Except on the attitude of some of the younger generation..... A lot of things that dun go well, they sorta expect the government to help them with everything.

Like complaining about being jobless, the governemtn can only do so much. Our government can do all sorts of things, but like bringing a cow to the river..... you can drag the heifer there, but you can't force it to drink.....

And my pet peeve is the chinese language.... about people saying that chinese is difficult, so it shouldn't drag down the results of good students..... I guess I am lucky, to come from a chinese speaking family, so my chinese is not so bad. But I also know a lot of people who didn't come from chinese speaking families, and can speak and write chinese better than I do.....

We are chinese, so why shouldn't we learn to speak and write chinese? How would people from other countries look at us, when they find out that they can speak chinese better than us?

Just me, I guess.....

-MacDawn

[scarletwillow]

Hmm, can't say I agree with you gals here.
I dun wanna get too far into this issue, cuz to tell the truth, it just makes me mad... and honestly, if the time shall ever come to it, I will support the use of force for reunification (NOT by the communist regime, mind you).

Caucasian baby in an Asian country... all I have to say to that, is "Tarzan" :P It's a part of human nature to want to be different... if you are in the minority, you automatically take pride in it. There will be a period in which you want to be spordically different... until you realize it has no universal meaning. Unity is key.

I've always supported ethnic unification, maybe because I've grown up in a very racist area that just *loves* to cast me out. Everyone has a Hitler inside... but not everyone wants to bring him out. Yet I do! I do!

Call me crazy, but I do believe the flower of China has yet to bloom. And when it does, perhaps there will be many years of war yet thousands of years of peace... ^_~

Self-determination... is it a right of man, or is it something man has conjured up in selfishness? I think maybe my destiny points away from that island then... rather, towards the heartland, where I come from and where I will die. Farewell thy dream and melodies of teeth... I leave thee for the life of a militant star.

[ho_yt]

I think most of you are off the topic, this topic should be taking about Singapore not Taiwan or China :sweat:

My teacher just came with a topic that young people now are self-centred or you may say selfish.

From wat I can say is, some maybe selfish when donating money in the public when those students sell flags during flag day. Many people now are busy with their work and don't care about others, but some are learn from their parents like when some students ask then for donations, they may not give them or not even bother about them.

Some may not be selfish because you can see those charity shows and people donate alot of money as they call the charity hotline. In school, students may volunteer to give out books or help their teachers.

[macdawn]

I think in every society, there are always black sheep among the flock. Singaporeans do tend to be rather selfish in everyday matters. Like jumping queue, not giving up seats to people who need them more, ignoring fund raisers, etc etc....

One thing I realised, when I did fund raising during my school days was that, the richer the person it, the more selfish they tend to be. When I went house to house to sell keychains last time, the residents of the three-room, four-room flats were my main customers. They opened their doors to listen to what I had to say, and even if they didn't want to buy my key chains, they would give me a sincere look to say they appreciate what i was doing. But the residents of the modified 5-room flats, they tried to discreetly open their windows and doors when they see me coming, and refused to even open their doors to me.

When I was out of the streets, asking for donations with those little cans, the well-dressed people are those who made the 'big effort' to walk right through us, look the other way, and pretend we didn't even exist. The Ah sohs, and ah pehs gave most generously.

But although we have such ugly Singaporeans around, we also have a lot of very very kind people around. Like the many people who opened their hearts and wallets to the child with the swollen brain, the family with severe disabilities, the child with AIDS.....

Like the mother who jumped off the HDB flat with her two girls.... The residents of that block of flats had come together to pool their money to pay for a simple Buddhist ceremony for the three souls, in the hope that the mother and her children can pass peacefully to the other world and not suffer anymore.

Although I have been rather disappointed by some of today's youth, but I still believe that when push comes to shove, the kindness in our people will surface. Like when we stood together to present a common front against SARS, like when we gave our time and effort to make the fabric of a nation. I have faith in the people of Singapore. I just hope that we do not need to wait for a national tragedy to happen to unite us all again.

-MacDawn

[hisashiluv14]

Jlo: Which part of the USA are you in again? How bad is the racism there? It's not something I can relate to because I have always been in the majority, and the only forms of racism I've encountered are in the shapes of words in print, either in magazines or on the computer screen. Tell me more?

In a warped sort of way, I do believe in ethnic unification, but I don't think it has be to literal and physical. We can all identify ourselves as Chinese without having to be a part of China physically. (And when I say Chinese, I don't mean PRC Chinese, but ethnic Chinese, racial Chinese, yah.)

Here's a question to all who advocate an independent Taiwan. We all seem to agree that Taiwan shouldn't go back to China because of the differences in their ways of life and the direction in which their development is headed. It's a culture issue, no? But what would you say to separatists movements in India (if there were any) based on cultural differences? In fact, in Singapore alone, we have so many different ethnicities and cultures. What if there were to be a day whereby we all cease to be self-absorbed and materialistic and actually gave a crap about cultural identity, and the Malays start demanding for a separate state in, say, the Kallang area?

To make it more tangible, do you think Malaysia should grant independence to Penang simply because of the Chinese majority?

Am I even making sense here?

But basically, my question is, given the diverse cultures and customs in many countries, could one make the reason of cultural differences as a case for seccession? It's quite interesting if you think about it.

To Macdawn: I COMPLETELY agree with you about the Chinese language policy. I mean, seriously, the people who find it hard to master Chinese have got to stop whining about the difficulties of the language. It's not that hard. And it annoys me that those I have encountered are mostly rich brats who cannot even be bothered about their culture and heritage. It's like they are so goddamn complacent in their own little irritating self-satisfied comfort zone that they don't even care about their own language. I'm not saying all Chinese have to be a virtuoso in the language but at least have some AWARENESS, okay? It's disgusting, the kind of shitty attitudes so many of my peers have towards Chinese. Even in SNGS, ironically, people I knew were like, "Chinese sucks lah!" :dry:

And again, I agree with you on the point about flag day and yadayadayada. I am always disturbed by people in hawker centres like Maxwell food centre or whatever and the Zhen Zhu Fang one who ignore tissue peddlars. I mean, if you have the money to have a nice meal, I'm sure you can fork out one dollar to the less fortunate. I don't believe in not giving money to the likes of beggars in Singapore. In fact, it downright pisses me off to see people ignoring a poor man on crutches, walking from table to table, asking people to buy three packs of tissue for a mere one dollar. ONE GODDAMN DOLLAR. It's not even a rip off, for god's sake.

And I had a shitty time doing Flag Day. Really annoyed me. People are so self-centered. But yeah I was doing at Orchard Road. The people that donated were mostly ang mohs and some nice moms with kids. The teenagers? don't even think about it.

Ugh. That was my first time doing Flag Day, last year, and there's no way in hell you can ever make me go through it again. :dry:

all right, time to make friends with Econs! Yay!

[scarletwillow]

Haha...
I talked to Alby for a long time about this, and I think he's my political twin *points at sig*.

Anyways, he did bring out an important point that I forgot to bring out.
When I asked, do you consider yourself Chinese or Singaporean above all, I meant CHINESE, not as in PRC Chinese, Taiwanese Chinese, Singaporean Chinese.
And like you said before Yelen, nationality is transient but ethnicity isn't.

As for secession, 50 years ago it was absolutely allowed. I mean, just look at the US. We (eh... they) still continue to hold properties that quite simply, they *stole* from other countries or just decided to take over. Even when WWI ended--Woodrow Wilson made it his absolute viewpoint that each ethnic group should have the right to govern itself--that led, in fact, directly to Hitler's rise to power and his ideas of a Germany for Germans.
I believe in that. And again, quite honestly, I do believe--no matter how diverse we may become politically, our roots are still all the same, and eventually, those roots will reunite (and seperate) the peoples of the world again.

[macdawn]

Hi there hisashiluv14, a fellow SNGS here! :wave: and I know, my friends were either the super good at chinese, who can roll their 'Shi', "Zhi' and 'Chi' right off their tongues..... and the others were the 'potatoes' who speak chinese with a slang.....

MOst of the people I know learn chinese because it was there, not because they are interested in the language...... and they are like so surprised when they found out that I still regularly writes my diary/short stories in chinese, when they had 'thrown away' their chinese right out of JC...... They can speak chinese fine, at least still understand-able, but ask them to write, they'll look at you blankly.....

I dun see why the surprise, we are chinese, why shouldn't I write my thoughts out in chinese? I really don't know what to think now.......

A couple of guys I met during work, when they were supposed to write the chinese characters on a form to be submitted.... they had absolutely no idea how to write them...... some even wrote their own chinese names wrong :rolleyes:

Do you know how to write your parents' chinese names?

-MacDawn

[hisashiluv14]

My parents' Chinese names? Yep, I think I know how to. The simplified characters only lah of course. I insist on writing my name the traditional way though. It looks a lot a lot a lot nicer, because the last word of my name is 'lan' as in 'lan' with a 'shan' on top and 'feng' below and I'm sorry but 'feng' looks shitty with that stupid cross in the middle. Bleah.

I'd love to write things in Chinese but sadly, my command of the language isn't fantastic enough. =( I can manage a Fang Wen Shan-type poem but with crappier descriptions and stuff like that if I used an English-Chinese dictionary but that's about it. But it's great that you write in Chinese though. See nothing wrong with that at all.

Um... people writing their own names wrong is just... bloody pathetic... :-x :dry:

[dazzlette]

I'm from an English speaking family. You will probably never hear Chinese being spoken in my home. My father hardly speaks and my mum doesn't know any at all. (She's Malaysian, so she was never taught Chinese so I don't blame her but she speaks damn good Hokkien) But I did fine in Chinese in school. I did Higher Chinese in school, got my A1s and though I might not speak very eloquantly (lack of practice, I reckon) I dare say that I can write decently enough. People who claim that they are from an English speaking background and therefore cannot do well in Chinese are just talking crap in my opinion. Look at me. I came out fine. (And so did a lot of other people I know) It's not as if we stay in a place where Chinese is hardly spoken at all and Chinese material is difficult to get. I don't believe that a basic level of proficiency is so hard to obtain. Ultimately, I think a lot of it boils down to attitude. If you already think you are never gonna make it, you will never make it no matter how hard you try.

As for looking touch with Chinese, I do feel myself starting to lose it. I mean I still read and understand Chinese fine but writing is starting to get slower. I have to think a bit harder before the words can come to me. I write a diary entry once in a while in Chinese just to practice. I don't want to completely lose it.

Ok why in the hell did I just rant so much about the Chinese issue? We're supposed to enlighten JLo about Singapore!

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm not too sure about your question JLo. If some one were to ask me where I am from, I would say Singapore. And yes, I am proud to be a Singaporean. But if he asked me do I regard myself as a Chinese, I would answer yes to that question too. So where does that place me then? I believe the majority of Singaporeans are like me. I don't feel anything towards PRC but I feel something about being ethnically Chinese.

[smilepiggy]

heys hisashiluv14 and macdawn! i'm from SNGS too! yays! think i told ya before? my chinese's ok, just that my class standard 's very high.and it like the exam is all memorise form the textbook one. and being the lazy piggy. i obviously hardly study, thats why. hahas. i think chinese spoken is ok, but i cant write like 30 % of the words in a compo. :( oh wells. but i still think studying chinese is impt. :) i mean at least we must have a basic grasp of it first right?

[chewy]

Singapore is a nice place because:
1. There is basically no natural disasters...no earthquakes (except sometimes there mayb tremors),no typhoon, no volcano eruption
2. low corruption
3. healthcare facilities r advanced and efficient (will first help victims regardless of nationalities, race, financial ability)
4. multiculturalism (which also contributes to the variety of food available in Singapore)
5. small surface area( which means we can get from one end of the country to the other end within a short time, in addition the efficient transport system, highways make travelling even much easier )
Things in which Singapore can improve on:
1. Education system(educators should have more say to wat to teach in school and disciplining students while they r in schools)
2. LRT (yep, despite the efficient transport system available in Singapore, this is the only form of transport that is the least efficient, always breakdown. btw LRT stands for Light Railway System, something like the skytrain in Singapore Changi Airport)
3. Hectic lifestyle (you will feel ok when u r immune to the relatively stressful lifestyle in Singapore, but bcoz of this hardworking qualities found in Singaporeans, we r able to develop into a relatively deveoped country within a short history of thirty over years.)

I will stay in Singapore becoz I feel that there is a lot of things i need which r found here, frens, family, memories, good sanitation etc