~The Differences between asian schools and caucasian schools- (the ways they learn and how much effort is put in) [Archive]

vunsin

01-05-2004, 03:28 AM

I'm not exactly sure either, but when I came to the US for college after graduating from high school (secondary school) in Malaysia, I found out that the math the teach in the freshman year of college was easier than the math they'd taught us during the last two years of high school! :unsure: I barely survived math in high school, but I aced my math in college. I mean, at least at the freshman level, because I didn't have to take anymore math classes for my major. Those were just for the general education requirements.

But I'm not sure we should say "Asians are smarter than Caucasians" because I think the fact is, the two education systems put emphasis on different things. There are a lot of things that Caucasians are good at that Asians aren't, but since these things aren't considered important in the Asian culture, we tend to disregard them.

Phyxius

01-05-2004, 03:38 AM

01-05-2004, 04:23 AM

lil~jo

01-05-2004, 05:01 AM

so right.
All three of you are so right.
Parents of asians tend to always have such high expectations of their children.

What do the asian school teach that is different from europeans though...
I mean, when I go back to Malaysia, I see my cousins do mental maths so fast!

And when they come down to New Zealand to do year 13 (form 7, or in Malaysia 2nd year of form 6)
they find it is a breeze! no work needed....well...not no work at all, but less than the others around.

snow_ella

01-05-2004, 10:03 AM

Asians aren't exactly smarter, they're just more hardworking, especially when we're in a foreign coutry. We have constant reminders from our parents that: "you have to study well inorder to have a good job later, we are depending on you". NOt to forget the competitive nature of asian parents as well.

But as an asian, i sometimes really envy the caucasions, not just because they don't receive the same pressures as we do but because they have that determination to reach for their dream jobs. Unlike most of the asians, when we think about our future job, we value factors such as pay and what others will think more than them.

For example, if you have received top education and got 100 in your HSC (the australian entry test for university), but you really want to be a libarian in a local library, what would u do?

As a generalisation (hope not offending anyone)...i know that most caucasions wouldn't care about anything and just try their best to become a good library because it's their passion and their parents would probably support them. But if your asian, not only those around you but yourself wouldn't follow your dreams, because you'll care that all the other asian elders and friends would look down on your job, they'd expect you to go into to a high paying industry.

Personally, i don't think i'll ever have the courage and determination to just follow my dreams and ignore everything else (if i had any), because i'll worry about this and that... :? I sometimes stress over the fact that i'm so weak-minded and easily influenced. :oops:

What do i do??????????? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

cloUdsuRFer

01-05-2004, 10:55 AM

cowboy

01-05-2004, 04:12 PM

i think the reality of it is, God is fair.

generally speaking...

Asians are the more intelligent ones while...
Africans are the atheletic ones while...
Caucasians are the balanced ones.

not trying to sound condescending/prejudiced/elite, by the way. it's only my observation and personal experience.

although there are exceptions to the rule, i.e. me.

First of all this is really racist. There are more than just a few acceptions to this. "Race" has nothing to do with intellegence or athleticism, it is hard work and training that make the genius or superstar on the feild.

I have worked and taught in both Asian and AMerican schools, so I have a different perspective on this issue. Anyone who claims that just because they are Asian they are smart is a complete moron. I'm sorry but there are just as many dumb asain students as there are dumb AMerican students.

The reason Asians tend to score the highest on so called "acheivement tests" are because od cultural differences in the value of education. Parents are more dedicated to their child's school performace that American parents. This is a cultural difference, not biological. That doesn't mean that AM poarents don't value education (they do, very much) it is just that in AMerica, we value more than just "book smarts". The ability to be creative, think critically, and be inventive is valued in AMerica over rote memorization of facts and math formulas. SO these "tests" measure a student's ability to regurgutate facts, not thier ability to problem-solve. If that was measured, I'm sure you'd see American students scoring very high.

Both societies do a great job educating their children, and it is faulty to say that one's kids are smarter than the other. Besides if you want to look at the true measure of a society's intellegence (the success and productiveness of its workforce and economy), then who's gettting the better grade?

Vant

01-05-2004, 04:42 PM

I can't believe how racist that felt after reading this post... And then top it off with 'god is fair'... Hahahaha...

I think it's the fact that the standards for education in asian countries are higher... My cousins in china are forced 13 hours a day a school... Six days a week (No summer/Winter/Spring breaks) Not to mention less holidays... Now compare that with US education... 8 hours a day... Five days a week... Isn't that a big difference?

And yes it's true that asian parents are more aggressive on their children to work harder... Having a good child to support you later in life is a definite plus... I wouldn't mind encouraging my son/daughter to work harder so that I can see him/her happy later in life (And mine ;p) (But alot of american parents are like this also ;p)

And please... Remember this whole forum isn't all religious...

vunsin

01-05-2004, 06:22 PM

I agree with snow_ella, cowboy, and Vant that this whole "Asians are smarter" thing is cultural. As I've mentioned in my first post above, we shouldn't say "Asians are smarter than Caucasians" because I think the fact is, the two education systems put emphasis on different things. The only reason I even brought up the math issue was just to say that our education systems put emphasis on different things. There's this stereotype about Asians being good at math. Well, I'll most certainly prove you wrong.

I'm good at languages, but this is not something the Asian society value. My second major was Spanish and my second minor was Japanese when I was an undergraduate student. My mom (who respects and supports my decisions) faced countless criticisms from her peers on a daily basis because of my choice of studies. They called me all sorts of names for wasting time and money doing something insubstantial. They said if I were too stupid to study math and science (or law) then I should just drop out of school and hopefully find a wealthy guy to marry.

Oh, btw, my first major was Broadcast and TV Production and first minor was Philosophy. They were supposedly "useless" as well.

Now I'm a graduate student and my area of concentration is Student Affairs Administration in Higher Education. Again, back home, my mom had to take the blame for my choice, since I haven't been home in more than 4 years (and people wonder why :shifty:). My uncle (her older brother) even pressures her to "force" me to go home just because he thinks he could dictate our lives (he's her boss, btw).

Are Asians smarter? How so? From my personal experience, I just don't see it. I'm not saying Asians are dumb and Caucasians are smart or vice versa. I'm just saying it's all cultural. And sadly, this is a part of the Asian culture that I don't like. Why can't I be allowed to be who I am and what I want to be? Why do others think they have the right to tell others how to live their lives? So what if my ultimate goal in life is to become a garbage truck driver?! If nobody wants to take that job then who'd take care of our trash?

*cooling down* Okay, the reason African Americans excel in sports is cultural as well. Parents put more emphasis on this because they don't expect their children to have good chances of success through education, not because they're stupid, but because they might be poor or because they perceive the society as racist and so they think their kids won't have a fair chance of getting a decent education and subsequently a decent job. And frankly speaking, I think the education system is tailored to the White culture, so for some African American students, the education system simply can't help them optimize their potentials.

As for Africans from Africa... well... Their countries' education systems aren't as good as other countries. Heck... look at how many people are starving in some of those countries. Who cares about books and getting good grades? The only "easy" way to a better life is through sports. You can certainly blame their government for not doing a good job providing education to their people, but you can't say the people are stupid.

In the Asian society, there's no emphasis on sports. I mean, sure you could still play sports, but parent's would rather send their kids to extra after-school classes or music lessons than let their kids spend time playing sports. Parents like to compare their kids' grades and academic achievements, not how well they play sports. Even if you're exceptionally good at sports, your parents would still want you to be good in your studies at the same time because they don't expect you to have a career in sports. This kind of concept just doesn't exist in the Asian culture.

01-06-2004, 01:01 AM

not trying to sound condescending/prejudiced/elite, by the way. it's only my observation and personal experience.

although there are exceptions to the rule, i.e. me.

they who argued heavily against my statement, pay attention to the above declaration which you've so conveniently disregarded, which i've made clear in my post and happens to be a key factor in determining the validity of my opinion.

indeed, note that it is my opinion, gathered from and only from my experiences and observations. obviously you could experience different things, but that doesn't falsify what i've experienced personally. try to be more level-headed next time, don't come in with a with an attitude and immediately start attacking any particular person for the hell of it. pay attention to the whole post, don't disregard certain parts, take others out of context and argue based on that. it is very rude. =)

i don't disagree with what you've said, vunsin and cowboy, that there are many exceptions to the statement i've made. as i've stated, i'm one of them. i do excellent in english and absolutely fail every math test/quiz imaginable. this doesn't mean i'm dumb, it just means i might not be as mathematically coherent than some of the other kids out there. regardless, what i've experienced is such, and what you've experienced really has nothing to do with what i've stated, as my opinion doesn't necessarily apply to you or people around you.

understood?

And please... Remember this whole forum isn't all religious...

oh i will. and i'll keep in mind that they're not all ignorant as well. =)

kewlpiggy88

01-06-2004, 01:28 AM

my friend told me that chinese writing compared to english ("pictures" v. the alphabet) stimulates one side of the brain that influences math or something. something like that...she said it was scientifically proven, but i dunno.

and it's really a cultural thing and there ARE exceptions to everything. each school/college/learning institution is different from every other school/college/learning institution, even though there are state/country standards.

my cousin from taiwan is at boarding school here in america and i think she likes it better here because maybe it IS easier, but her grades aren't that great, and my aunt told me that she got better grades in tw, but then again, she's not fluent in english.

-+my-memory+-

01-06-2004, 01:30 AM

i aggree with those who say 'asians aren't exactly smarter than caucasians'... as vunsin had said the education systems on each side places emphasis on different things... and i believe no-one is smarter than another.. everyone is actually equal just that each and every one of us has special talents in certain areas that maybe others do not have...so u can't exactly say who is smarter than who.. cause evryone is gifted....

Pugwash

01-06-2004, 02:19 AM

Me, I think the stereotyping that Asians are good at math are true however, this isn't because they are born with it. Like any other human being, they had to work to gain this knowledge.

I think the main reason that they're good is societal issues and discipline.

My family who fled from the Vietnam war in '85 or '86 didn't have much money to work with when arriving here thus my brother had no choice to live a hard life with good marks and tough and dirty jobs. I mean, I think there's a lot of concentration in math and science when dealing with education in asia and asians seem to have education but not necessarily money and so they're forced to be good. So it's two things working at once: Themselves + the environment they live in (Parents, education system etc.)

Now, I'm also asian and do I consider me a math god? Hell no. I think the reason why I do good on certain strands of physics or math is because I enjoyed it and worked hard at it and then people begin to stereotype me.

I'm also lazy and take things for granted and IM NOT NATURALLY SMART IN MATH nor science. My teacher in physics this year was crap and my teacher in chemistry this year was awesome, guess which one I did better in although Physics is going to be a prerequesite as well as chem but physics is more involved in Electrical Engineering. I did better in chem because I enjoyed the content and found it fun to be learning.

So therefore.. I think that most people are born with an equal IQ however, to gain knowledge, you gotta work at it. It's not like I'm going to wake up one day and know math beyond Einstein's level!

Oh btw, I can't help but laugh at people who think high grades mean they're smart. I've seen a lot of people who work 2-3 hours, get high 90s and people who study all night and still get high 90s, which one is smarter? People have the most obscured ways of learning that it just screws them up when managing time becomes a factor e.g. College or university.

Sure, only grades matter when handing in applications in Canada however, states are SATs, and what happens when you get into a university?

Jay is one person you could look at it who did poorly and disliked math and sciences.

en_en

01-06-2004, 02:46 AM

i went to school in taiwan till i was in second grade and i think asian schools are prolly more harder on the kids and the disipline more strict. the level of learning is higher. like the first graders there have higher levels of education then the first graders here. american teachers are not strict at all i think due to the laws that teachers cannot yell at students and such. i think a lot of the other countries are like asia in the education department. my french teacher use to teach and live in france and she was telling us about this today.

scarletwillow

01-07-2004, 04:22 PM

Anyone who says all Asians are inherently smart have not been to Asia.

However, it is true that certain races are more capable of certain things than others. Hitler even used this idea as justification for WWII. Asians are more capable at intellectual pursuits, yes, but ambition and ability are two completely different things.

Tidus

01-07-2004, 04:27 PM

Pugwash

01-07-2004, 04:59 PM

know, i got all this friends in school who came from mainland china, and damn!! their mathematics capabilities... are so freaking powerful that a really complicated qns thrown to them, would be solved in a v v v fast time....
i heard china have intensive math learning classes for the students there.... :oops:

I think you have to elaborate on their environment. Just because china provides a strict intensive math curriculum doesn't automatic turn them into a genius... Just like if you plan to go to Harvard, you aren't going to be one of the top engineering students. Gates dropped out and now he's a billionare..

LiLxAmMiE

01-07-2004, 08:31 PM

i think the school's at China kind of "mainly" focus on math or something. that's like the "key" subject for them! and we here in America kind of "mainly" focuses on english! that's the "key" subject to us. so, it doesn't make them a genius or anything.. if they are a genius, then we would be too!

but China's school teaching kind is more "strict" they don't have so many breaks or vacation like we do.. so they only focus on school. that's how they learn stuff, strictly stuck into mind!

but America's school teaching kind is more less "strict" and more relaxing... that's how we learn stuff! slowly flowing into the mind!

so it's kind of the teaching technique that kind of fixes stuff!

scarletwillow

01-07-2004, 09:01 PM

My cousin in Beijing...
She was in second year of "high school" (not university) in China.
Classes are Monday to Friday, half-day on Saturday. Commutes are daily on bicycle. Every school had a uniform.
Summer vacation is one month.

l3abystarz704

01-07-2004, 10:48 PM

I think it depends on how hard they work...cuz in america it's like there are opportunities everywhere to work n such and in asian countries everyone is working hard to get the best jobs...so like in my other post...americans over look what they have since they have it...i'm not really sure how the schooling is like in asia but i think the only difference is that people from asia work harder giving more time into what they learn and they actually worry about it..over here no one really cares about their grades except for a few people.

lil~jo

01-07-2004, 10:51 PM

All, I know from my cousins....
are that, they go to school at 7am, finish at 12.
The eat lunch, and rush off to tution of 3 hours, come home....do homework, then eat dinner...
go out again to tution, then come back 3 hours later...

That, is what I call disipline!
{and that, my friends, is why asians are smart!}

x_tina

01-09-2004, 09:46 PM

everyone has the capability to be smart regardless of race. asian students tend to work harder because their parents and chinese society in general put a huge emphasis on education. it's a way of showing pride. if someone gets an A, it doesn't matter how poor or how ugly the are, they've accomplished something great that no one can take away.

in addition, many asian schools start teaching kids at an early age. my cousin (age 12) is learning calculus in asia while in north america, kids don't typically learn it until their last year of high school. you absorb more as a child which and thus further facilitates whatever else you learn later in life.

caucasian students tend to be more well rounded than asians however their society doesn't emphasize the importance of education enough. and it doesn't help when their teachers and school boards keep threatening to go on strike.

punishment also plays a role. i once got whipped on the hand in front of my classmates. and then i had to write i will not disrupt the class (or something like that) on 100 pages and hand it in the next day. yeah, that wasn't fun. but here (in canada) i can disrupt the class, goof around, not hand in assignments and the worst i get is detention or nothing happens at all.

denise88

01-22-2004, 05:47 AM

i study in Manila, and my close friend just moved to Canada recently. she said that in her school, it was a whole lot easier cause you can pass your assignments whenever you like and the teacher won't mind. also, subjects, like science, history and especially math, there are a whole lot easier compared to what we study here.

i wouldn't say asians are smarter than caucasians, but i think asians are more disciplined regarding schoolwork than most caucasians. we go to school almost 8-9 hours a day while they only attend 6-7 hours of school. what they learn in a year, we learn for one semester. i think this is so because the schools here in asia would like us to be prepared for college so that we wouldn't be surprised with college workload. my cousin who's also living in Canada said that college was really hard for her because when she studied high school there, they didn't prepare her much for college that's why it's really hard for her to cope up with college work.

so i guess that's why azns may seem smarter than caucasians :D

bee

01-23-2004, 12:02 AM

i dont think you are smart just because you are asian either. its just in america it usually is a lot easier on students (although i wouldnt know..i've never been to an asian country) my parents keep on saying that if i worked as much as i do in a chinese school as i do in my school now, i wouldnt be passing. :dry: schooling must be much more difficult in china. however---there are some schools in america that are REALLY difficult as well. i think it just depends on the school.

plus my friend who came from china said that a lot of kids dont even go ot college, and they get out of middle school and go to a "community high school" or something, or dont go to highschool at all even. but thats cuz they want to make money fast as teachers or repairmen or whatever. i dont know.

in my school, some students take calc and physics sophmore year (as many of my friends do) and most kids are taking more than one AP class sophmore year too. (sophmore=>2nd year of HS, 10th grade) i know a girl who went from freshman to junior her second semester of college. of course...erm...shes chinese...er...but her parents make her work REALLY hard because her dad is dead, and they dont have much money. plus everyone else in their family are rich.

sometimes i think i am at a disadvantage being schooled in america, because i get to be lazy and it isnt good for me. plus u dont usually get to choose to learn different languages, and i want to take several. :wacko: its all very confusing. its definately cultural, and perhaps economical as well.

hisashiluv14

01-23-2004, 12:29 PM

That, is what I call disipline!
{and that, my friends, is why asians are smart!}

I'm sorry, I have to refute you on this. Discipline is definitely not synonymous with intelligence. Like someone else mentioned earlier on the first page, a person can study for 2 to 3 hours and score an A, while another person can study all day long and score the same A. So who is smarter in this light?

There are people I know of, in my current school, who study their asses off and still don't achieve the grades that they're aiming for. And conversely, there are others I've known throughout my entire life that don't study much at all, and when the exams roll about, they start mugging or whatever the heck it is that they do and they end up with many distinctions.

Of course, grades do not entirely reflect upon a person's intelligence, but they do, I think, reflect upon his ability to absorb facts, which is, in a way, a measurement of his ability to understand what is required of him. Personally, I would tend to admire more the person who studies for 3 hours a day and still scores an A rather than the person who studies all day long and gets the same grade.

And to address the stereotype that Asians are good at maths and science: that is a stereotype, and nothing more, and I'm a classic example of that. I did well enough for my exams to choose to enter the Science stream, but I chose the Arts stream instead. Why? Because I love the arts and I hate the sciences, and I think a good reason for that strong dislike is because I can't do well in it at all. Maths gives me a bigger headache than trying to understand Shakespeare, and I'd rather spend the rest of my life reading traditional Chinese characters rather than to analyse some strange biological phenomenom.

Of course, you've read reports that say Asian kids do better at standardised maths exams than caucasian kids, but like many people have already pointed out, that is largely due to the rigid and rigorous education system a lot of Asian countries have, Singapore included. I took double maths and double science (almost triple, since it was pure physics and combined chem and bio) in secondary school, when I was 15, 16. Also took double humanities and double languages. And when I was 15 I took an extra subject, music elective, which I dropped when I was 16 'cause I couldn't cope and I was failing music all the way anyway (I simply don't have the gift that Jielun is blessed with :)). So that was eight subjects and none of them were easy-going.

I don't know how the education system is like in the States, but from what I've heard and read about, the impression I get is that they don't get half of the stress and the pressure and the workload that we get here. American readers who read my online journal have marvelled over how much I complain about school, and I only complain because it's seriously a mega pain in the arse. Exams are treated like they're of life-and-death importance, and this is indoctrinated even to 12-year-old kids. Proof of that? Some 12-year-old jumped to her death about two years back, in Singapore, when she found out that she did badly in her primary school leaving exams. (We do streaming here, and she couldn't get into the better streams.) That is the kind of pressure that we get here.

Do you guys get it in the States? Or any European countries? I don't think so.

So back to the whole 'asians are smarter than caucasians' discussion; it's not as much about race as it is about the environment that one grows up in, for if a Caucasian kid studies in Singapore from a young age, he'd end up like many Asian students too. (That is, assuming that he enrols in a mainstream school and not one of those posh international school jobs.) It's about the entire society at work, about what society values, and it just so happens that many Asian society values paper qualification, which is why the educ

ation system works its poor students to death just to get that elusive A, which, really, isn't even necessary when one truly comes out to work, but that is another rant for another day.

And in junior college, which is pre-uni education, my average day starts at 7.55 a.m. and ends at 4.30 p.m. And I know people who end around 5.20 or so, in other colleges. *shrugs*

syzygy

01-23-2004, 03:40 PM

Asians is smarter thing is definately a stereotype. However, as some people have put it, I think the parents emphasis on education is what drives us(Asians) to usually do so well. I don't really think it matters where we're from, I am ABC(American Born Chinese) and I think I'm pretty smart. I give the credit to my parents making me care about my education early on in my life, and I've stuck to it. My parents being Chinese they probably took that mind set when they were younger living in China so it goes with them, and passes down to me.

Unfortunately, it seems Asians have the highest emphasis on education IMO. If everyone had an emphasis on education, I wouldn't feel like I was surrounded by idiots when I walk through the halls at my school. That was kind of mean, but you have no idea how true that really is when you go to my school. There is a suprisingly large amount of stupid people.

bee

01-23-2004, 06:13 PM

hisashiluv14, you do have a point. i remember in history i always got 100% on my tests and i only studied in the 5 minutes beforemy class. then my friend had studied all day the day before and she always got C's and B's, sometimes you cant help it. and syzygy---i also feel that im surrounded my idiots when i walk down the hall. life sucks, get used to it. not everyone is the same, although it would be better of society was all on equal standards.

hisashiluv14

01-24-2004, 02:05 PM

Haha well I'm in Singapore and I still feel like I'm surrounded by idiots when I walk around my school. Maybe it's just me though.

Yeah ray-chan, I'm kinda like you too. Last year I pretty much slacked off, as per usual, and only studied a few days before my promo exams and I passed all my subjects with two Bs, while other people almost had to repeat Year One. But then again, my school isn't that fantastic. I'm sure if I went to a better (read: higher ranked) school, I'd be repeating year one now...

OLive_aNN

01-24-2004, 02:47 PM

ZanZan

01-24-2004, 02:58 PM

haha OLive_aNN...i don think eatin one's brain helps!!
well,study b4 the exams realli helps!!
er...to a certain extent....it's effective 4 some onli...it works a little 4 me...when i was in sec sch..i did tt...even 4 major exams!!
haha...guess all of u guys have ur methods...but who cares?!
as long as u get the grade u wan....lol

lil~jo

02-04-2004, 09:43 AM

yes, uhhh...I don't think eating ones brain helps either.

Cram or not to cram....that is always the question for me.

In year 9...I studied a week before the exam....
Year 10...I studied a day before the exams....
sometimes the morning before the exam...
Year 11....which is this year....I think I have to start real early....

My asians friends started studying many months before the exam....as for my european friends did their cramming....I guessed I was influenced more by the kiwis(europeans) in the past....
I've got to change.....hehe
Be an ordinary asian.....study harder.....~

ZanZan

02-04-2004, 02:02 PM

wow...u remember all of them so clearli??
gosh~~
haha...i tink asains r more hardworkin??
well,juz a guess...mayb they believed more in the long-term effective outcome~~
whereas,the europeans juz *flip* their textbks when exams come??
haha...but stil,there r asians who r lazy(like mi!!)
and europeans who r hardworkin ya!!

Shanhaigirl

02-04-2004, 04:04 PM

wow, i just found this thread,so interesting. i really enjoyed reading your posts, guys.
i don't think that the name of this thread should be like this, difference between educational systems is not based on race, but on the culture, customs, traditions of every country, region, etc.
i agree with those here who say that it's not about Asians being smarter but about them being more hardworking. i can agree with that. i mean they really are hardworking and i admire them for that.
but that doesn't mean that Europeans are not smart or whatever. i am from Russia and i can tell you that parents there are similar to those in Asia. they also want their children to get more education than they could and want them to work harder and get better job. i think that's natural for any parent.
vun, i think you already said everything i had in mind, i totally agree with you :)
my parents even sent me to China to learn more, although in their hearts they really didn't want me to go anywhere far away from them.
btw, educational systems in Russia and China(don't know about rest Asia) are very similar. and our educational system differs from American very much. for example, when i studied in America(as a sophmore),we had Algebra 2 class , it included everything that we had been learning in my Russian school in 8 and 9 grade.

roche

02-05-2004, 06:30 AM

I feel like this discussion boils down to what each individual feels makes a person smart.....
It seems like a lot of the discussion revolves around someone's math and science ability, as if that's the yardstick for "smartness"....
perhaps it is, in asian cultures, and thus much more emphasis is put in this are and thus asian students tend to excel more in this area. but then again, even that's a gross an over-generalization.....

however, one thing i noticed was that in my college (in the states), a large percentage of the students in the engineering department are asians....that's a fact. perhaps that may be due to the fact that when one is 18 and has absolutely no idea what to do with one's life, and its time to submit the ton of college apps, its easy to succumb to the parental/cultural pressure to put that check in the box that dooms you to 4 years of Laws and Proofs....otherwise known as School of Engineering and Applied Sciences...(i think most schools call their engineering department that, mine does at least)
Another thing I noticed was that caucasian students tend to speak up a lot more during classes, and voice their opinions more than asian students.

actually, what i think matters at the end of college education is honestly not the academics (i've got plenty of friends who majored in engineering who are now off to become investment bankers and such).....its about the experience, and the path to learning how to handle new situations with finesse. and i think what defines "smartness" is the ability to think on your feet, and come up with innovative solutions. Academics are not a good judge at all....doing well on standardized tests is absolutely no test of a person's intelligence.

ZanZan

02-07-2004, 04:35 AM

speakin abt maths n science....1 thing came 2 my mind...abt the structure of our brain...i don tink much ppl can have wonders of 2 worlds of our brain...of cos tt excludes the 3rd brain...well,do u guys ever wonder wad kinda person 2 r??
as in artistic or mathematical??
alot comes from the construction of the brain n how much we use them...sometimes going wild n crazy is a great idea...instead of thinkin abt sth n worry abt its problems...

lil~jo

02-12-2004, 11:29 AM

I've adapted to the european culture so fast, I mean am born in NZ, so im influenced by them too.

But its good to have some asian friends pushing you on, to study more.
*^^*
Thats what friends are for.

xiaoern

02-12-2004, 12:32 PM

asian parents are just being paranoid of their children's education.
in terms of education, not only the children have to work hard, the parents have to compete among themselves to enrol their sons and daughters to the best schools, institution, best tuition classes etc.
the race is so eminent in particularly in "yellow skin people" countries : singapore,japan,korea,china,malaysia....
we are taught to excel in whatever academic fields that we are in. the lessons that we take are so much harder than those being taught in european countries. so don't be surprised if we do well in "white skin people" countries,we have been striving VERY hard to keep our reputation.
for all the good in this, i can't say i'm not sadden by the MANY suicides asians students commit in their home country just because they couldn't score straight A's. bet this never happen in european schools. i studied in a reputable school in my home country and i can't deny that suicides or suicide attempts happen EVERY year just because of the stress people are having to be the best. the japanese are infamous in asia for their number of suicide cases involving students who failed to enter into Tokyo University. so i think these so called secrets of success of the asians do have their own downsides, depending on how you see it.

there's this fact that proves that asians are smarter:
has anyone here heard of SAM? it's south australian matriculation. in malaysia, sam is being offered in private colleges, where students in malaysia take the same exam as the students in south australia. guess which country fares better every year?
guess.....

many people find that asians are "not so active" in class discussions and forums. asians are just so shy and quiet in class (passive). there's this funny remark my friends always say:
Q:why do the gwai lou (white devil people) ask so many questions in class?
A:they ask before they think.

Q:why do asians ask little or no questions at all in class?
A:after thinking, they got the answers, so no need to ask.

lil~jo

03-26-2004, 06:47 AM

true true.

Xiaoern, I find my whole class of kiwis ask so many random questions, that have just been answered.

*sigh*
hehe....wastes some of our time really....

~*C0tt0n K@n-D3e*~

03-26-2004, 07:08 AM

Hmm :? ...i think its becuz in Asia, the teachers and parents have HIGH expectations...so it made a lot of pressure on people...which made them work even more harder. Like gettin 86% here isnt so bad...its still an A. But if its in Asia...my mom would think 95 is kinda bad already :crazy: *sigh*

littleasian

03-26-2004, 08:17 AM

heres the thing: americans and asians learn are taught differently. In asian society, the emphasis is on memorization and the learning of hard facts. In the United States, much more emphasis is put on voicing and coming up with your own opinions of subjects based on information. This is why if you take a asian kid and a caucasion kid and ask them a very open ended question like: "how do we know the color red is the color red", the caucasion kid will have a much bette rresponse. Americans are able to form opinions much quicker than asians (at least this is what i've olbserved).

ZanZan

03-29-2004, 02:08 PM

o..yeah i tink so...but tt is 4 the majority of caucasians becos they lived tt way...it's like a lifesty;e alreadi...they voice out everything under the sun....
but stil,i believed there r ppl(at least in Asai) tt is CLEVER enuff,in this case,to convey his ideas into words n not hard facts...

crusty-applepie

03-29-2004, 04:54 PM

i think the difference between asian and western ways of teaching is that... asian schools stress hard work and a lot of technical stuff like math and science. western schools, on the other hand, from my own observation, stress critical thinking and the arts. that's the main difference. since asians are so used to hard work from school, when placed in a western school, they tend to catch up easily on stuff/subjects that they didnt know before. so i guess it's mainly hard work that makes most asians perform better than westerners in school. another thing is that it could also be a way of fitting in. since asians are aliens in a western environment, i think it's a way of proving themselves and making a name for themselves in a society of westerners.

ZanZan

04-01-2004, 06:21 AM

yeah....but doesnt tt mean asians r better alreadi?
cos u need hard work no matter when type of learnin u r in right??

Pepsi24601

04-01-2004, 06:45 AM

no asians aren't "naturally" smart as implied by the "God being fair." I think everybody has the same potential for intelligience (unless of course you were born with mental retardation or have a learning disorder). What I have noticed about Asian students (international students) as opposed to Asian American and other American students is the differences in studying. Asian students tend to listen very attentively and take absolutely no notes and read their books for hours on stretch. Asian American and American students tend to take notes during class then read their books while making flashcards or taking notes. I think Asian students are naturally better at memorization, because of their language, memorizing all those characters is rough! Plus Asian students just appear smarter because the standards for them are higher when getting admitted to a college/university in the U.S. So they have to be smarter than the average American student to get into an American school.

This model minority myth puts too much pressure on Asian American students. I mean what if you really just aren't booksmart. Then they feel like there's something wrong with them (Why aren't I smart? I'm Asian, I should be smart. Maybe there's something wrong with me...). The pressure is on the Asian students too (the FOBs). Shoot, why should ppl expect them to be smart? They probably couldn't get into a school at their home country.

ZanZan

04-11-2004, 05:46 AM

well i tink it's all abt pride matter....the last part u mentioned abt being smart or not is ur own business...cos whether u r smart or not is not determined verballi or by the majority...it's ur own effort and all....
i agree tt the pressure is there...mayb within the family wil one feel it...but as a whole community,i don realli c such a phenomenon~~

miki-chan

04-12-2004, 07:17 AM

ViBi

04-13-2004, 01:42 PM

wah.. ppl are so passionate about this...

well, i was in an asian primary school and now i got to a caucasian secondary school, so i guess i can say that i have some sort of credibility concerning in this issue...

in my secondary atm, i am actually in an academic selective school and well, not surprisingly, most of us students (i guess about 85%) of us are asian. i think that says a lot about the differences between asian priorities and caucasian priorities. it is clear that more asians, whether it is the student themselves or the parents, value education above most other things.

Despite that most of us are asians, the caucasians in my school are very hard working and do value education greatly. Some are even more smarter than the average asian. they aspire to become doctors and lawyers, just like many other asians.

i find that the biggest difference between asians and caucasians students in my school is that these caucasians want to become academic in their own right whereas many asians become academic due to the expectations that are placed on them by their families.

like many of you, i am sometimes jealous of caucasians simply because most of them do not have the pressure that have been placed on me....... but then, i guess, knowing that i am in the top 25% of everyone who took the selective exam into my school, i have nothing to complain. i really cant ask for more as i guess, my ability to learn is already a gift.

Overall, i think a person's smartness really comes down to the individual and its not really about race.

ZanZan

04-13-2004, 02:40 PM

I watched this TV show a while ago that talked about the difference in grades achieved by ASian student and caucasians. They said something about how the Asian brain is better adapted to writing tests and exams because they (or mostly the Chinese) have been writing exams (to become magistrates) for thousands of years.

i agree the last part u said...chinese ppl haf been writin alot over the years...esp China in this case,5000 yrs od history...omg!! :dry:

stargirl

04-13-2004, 06:26 PM

Well it is true Asians tend to do better at school than us caucasian ppl. We are just dumb! lol...no

Actually im happy being caucasian because i get to make my own decisions. If i want to do well at school than thats great and my parents love it and i work to do well. If not well its my decision....
i can be whatever i want to be in the future and there is no pressure. Asian kids may do better at school but i choose the freedom any day. Pressure from parents is the worst kind of peer pressure!

ZanZan

04-18-2004, 08:26 AM

yeah...i agree...cos parent juz haf 2 encourage us...their pressure is absoluteli redundant!! *throws it away*
i think whether u score or not is destined...

jes!

04-21-2004, 08:42 AM

i think asians are more conservative with education..n i think the standard in education is stricter in asian schools

kamui

09-04-2004, 11:02 PM

Actually im happy being caucasian because i get to make my own decisions. If i want to do well at school than thats great and my parents love it and i work to do well. If not well its my decision....
i can be whatever i want to be in the future and there is no pressure. Asian kids may do better at school but i choose the freedom any day. Pressure from parents is the worst kind of peer pressure!

that's not always true towards all asian families..... i mean i used to be an A student, and of course my parents were happy abt that. but lately as i progress throughout high school, if i don't get an A on everything they're cool with that. (not w/ my siblings tho lol) my parents have begun to realize, that sadly, my brain can't handle all that useless science and math and history and grammar crap that we'll probably forget in our adulthood anyway.. so they tell me, as long as i do the best i can, as long as i can get a decent job, i don't have to necessarily try to get into an ivy league school...

that being said, i think i consider myself a lucky asian kid (lol) coz i know tons of people whose parents push them to be the best; as well as learn the violin and piano :tongue:

timeless

09-06-2004, 03:38 AM

I know my parents always want me to be the top of my class, and get high marks on everything. My parents believe that if I get a 99% on my tests, it's bad and I have to get a 100%. On top of that, I have to play at least 2 hours a day of piano and I have to get awards for piano too.

I guess it's just a cultural thing. The education system in Asian countries is way more strict than in North America, especially in math.

Most people in North America expect that if you're Asian, you do very well in school.

wonnage

09-06-2004, 04:20 AM

Fact is, if you do well in school it speaks a lot about your character. You're past the adolescent rebel stage, sure you're not an adult yet but you're definitely closer than those crazies that party every night. You think the stuff you learn is useless? That's why school is such a pain in the ass for you; too busy thinking about how useful biology is instead of learning the damn subject. If you're going to go to school might as well take it seriously.

dagamezmasta

09-06-2004, 09:41 PM

well i think that asian schools put on A LOT more pressure and move a long a lot faster than caucasian schools. for example here in california, i remember when i wuz little we kept reviewing the same things. in china, they move a long much faster. i'm not sure if asians are actually SMARTER than caucasians, but their education goes further. it doesn't matter racialy. for example, if a caucasian wuz born in china and grew up there, he would probably know more than an asian who grew up in the u.s. at the same time. get my poitn? asain schools move along faster and have a better method of teaching, especially in math. asian teachers give students a lot of shortcuts in math, while caucasian teachers make little kids to math the long way.

judes

09-17-2004, 10:51 PM

the thing is, those math shortcuts aren't necessarily better, because a lot of the times they force you to memorize the shortcuts and learn which cases to use them, while in north america (or specifically caanda) in the program i'm in, the teacher explains why the equation / formula is this way and how to get it. there is always an approach to it that will make more sense. it also depends a lot on which program you're in. i think in elementary and junior high you can see the big difference between asian / n. american teachings, but in high school the gap is significantly decreased.

i don't think the difference is what they teach, but how they teach. in order to keep up with the memorization of the techniques you use in, let's say, math, most asians get good work ethics to keep on working at it, to keep focused, and are pushed into the sciences and mathematics. sure asians get good marks in school in those subjects precisely because they were taught the mentality that these two subjects are more important. i think asian teaching is limited, because stuffing known values down the throat of students isn't going to make it easier for them to expand and learn to create in the future (therefore benefit society or at least themselves). and i also think north american teaching can learn from asian teachings because the system is too lax on discipline for the kids learning.

this means that while asians are good in subjects that require a straight thinking, and constant rules to follow, as long as they keep within the boundaries and learn the rules, they are fine, but when they come to real creative thought, such as inventing a lab procedure or doing something creatively such as art or a writing assignment, they are usually average. i think the problem with the asian way of learning is that you don't learn things by way of application. you learn the rules, you stick by them, but why? how? they don't understand it, but they don't question because they weren't taught to be able to question. and that's why they complain about the pressure from their parents or simmer in anger about the vague reasons that they're not able to comprehend.

finally what i have to say to that is: big freakin deal. suck it up, princess. i'm sorry that i'm blunt and kind of crude, but your parents push you to excel because they know that you are learning life skills you need in the real world. nobody's going to wipe your butt and push you gently towards your destination. if you don't have the skills to excel in a regulated environment where teachers baby you at every step, then you are going to get massacred in university and onwards.

but there are several good things about asian teaching like i mentioned.
the respect for teachers is a big plus in the schools. respect for your peers, respect for teachers, makes for a better learning environment. you are not in school to piss around and socialize. you're there to learn.

nycgirls

09-20-2004, 05:11 AM

AAAHHH~~ NOT RACIAL comparasion again! :oops:

First of all, I would like to reminder you, madam speaker, that this is the 21 CENTURY! We are much more advanced than before, hence the issue of race, and the topics related to race, are quite not existed anymore. Race comparasion is like your grandma's undergarments right now, so drop that immediately if you are in the 21st Century! :-x

Then, extending my topic, I would like to inform you, madam speaker, that racist issue still exists. I am not being ignorant about it at all. It's just that if everyone in this world right now could start their efforts of seeing others that in different races as the same, racism might be significantly reduced. Hence if you are living the the present right now, you should start to do so before I call you as "outdated."

Following your topic, schools are different throughout the whole world, and the systems have developed differently according to different situations in different states. Obviously schools around the world do not share the same idealistic achievements, and each has its pros and cons. So your point of view is being narrowed down on "smartness," and my question for your question would be: on which field, and in what aspect?

Last, I would like to point out that your view on education system is totally stereotypical. Is there any way you can present the "asian" schools are being great and educating children at their maximum intelligences, while caucasian schools are leaving behind? A statistical fact for you, in a survey completed by the Asian American high school students (around 2000 of them), 25% of them are feeling pressure from being viewed as stereotypically smart in the school, and 20% of them are being inadequate in their academic studies (aka failing, having a grade below D or equivalent), and 45% of them admitted that their obstacles in studying are being ignored.

To sum up, this topic needs more clarification. :dry:

judes

09-20-2004, 07:23 AM

even if it is the 21st century, racism is still prevalent, and racial profiling is happening within many many questions as we speak about the subject of "terrorism."

i am writing this as an asian who has been through both systems, and i'm not saying that it is present in ALL schools, just my own experiences as a student who has been in both systems. and i doubt that the person who wrote this intended it to be a case by case basis. there are significant and major differences between caucasian school systems and asian school systems, and i believe that they would really like to know why a stereotype occured with asians living in a caucasian environment.

the discussion has been moved beyond the subject of general "smartness" and into comparisons between the two school systems. have you continued reading down into where the discussion has led? some people believe that the asian system have educated their children better than caucasians, and some people believe that they have not.

and not trying to throw away your stats, but -
asian-american students...are probably failing not because they don't know the math and sciences that they traditionally excel at, but because they don't understand the language. i'm sure that if you place them in a situation where they can work on math/science in their own language, they would be more "advanced" than their high school peers. since asians are the minority at schools i've been to (and i've been to a lot of schools), then i don't see why the administration need to spend extra money educating a small amount of people in "their way".

tvbaddict

10-16-2004, 01:06 AM

i find that most asians are good in math (but i really suck at math) i think the math level in asia is a lot higher than the math level in the US

13abygirl

10-16-2004, 03:22 AM

well i dont realli think that asians are smarter than caucasians, its just the way asians are brought up by their family to work crazy hard in order to get a g0od job. my family keeps pushing me to work hard so that I woudl have more opportunities for a g0od life instead of being like them, growing up to be laborers. & i also think its a thing with "face", dun want to seem inferior to other races.

jay_chou_

10-16-2004, 06:16 AM

I think caucasian people don't have as much pressure to study hard then those who are asian. Especially if they are an overseas student. At my school in Australia I find that all the asians hand in their work on time and complete most work in class and nearly all of them are in the highest maths class, but with caucasian people they tend to joke around a bit more during class and slack off a bit. But like 13abygirl said, I think it's just the way asians are brought up by their family.

But it's not always true, I just agree in general. Like me, I'm asian but I was brought up in Australia so my parents don't seem to care how well I do as long as I'm happy with how well I'm doing and I'm also not very good at maths, or science or any "smart" subject for that matter... so maybe the country you're brought up in also makes some difference. In Australia it's not so strict in schooling or at home, but my friends from Malaysia who go to schooling there also get hit by their teachers and their parents with either their hands or sticks if they don't study hard but in Australia hitting is illegal.

My friends from school who are overseas students also have the pressures of working hard because they're used to it from their previous school at their country. Also I think overseas students have more pressure because they know that their parents let them study in another country for the purpose of doing really well so they good high paying jobs in the future or whatever.

So I guess there is a real difference between asian schools and caucasian schools and how they people are brought up to study :glug:

vicks

10-17-2004, 06:02 AM

i also think it depends on what the focus is on. Like in the US, good grades aren't enough to get into a good college. You have to have extracirriculars... job experience, community service, leadership, clubs, music, etc. But in places like Taiwan, it's how well you do in that national exam that determines where you go so there's so much more pressure placed on studying, whereas studying isn't enough in the US

Dita511

10-19-2004, 02:05 PM

First of all this is really racist.
The reason Asians tend to score the highest on so called "acheivement tests" are because od cultural differences in the value of education. Parents are more dedicated to their child's school performace that American parents. This is a cultural difference, not biological.
Both societies do a great job educating their children, and it is faulty to say that one's kids are smarter than the other

I completely agree with cowboy, he's 100% on the mark. I have many Asian friends and know their families very well, and I'm Australian - so I have another perspective.

I have seen the pressures placed upon many Asian people by their families to perform well in school so they will succeed later in life. Some of my friends have been threatened with having their allowances cut if they do not score a distinction average or higher in their high school and university studies, putting enormous pressure on them that I do not have to deal with.

One of my high school friends was told they would be kicked out of home by their father if they did not achieve a certain mark in their HSC (Australian University Admission score). I could not stand the pressure placed on many Asian peope that I know, its hard enough dealing with an exam without having to worry about your parents' expectations as well!!

I agree that culture is the major factor at play here. In Australia and America, education is certainly valued, but in a different way. While in Asian countries (from what my friends tell me), memorisation of advanced material is stressed and examined, Australia stresses a more all-round education in applying material. Therefore, exams include questions applying knowledge to different situations, not just writing out facts and formulas.

However, the attitude of many Australian families is changing. Before, families didn't press their children as much to attend university. Now, we are pretty much told that university is the only way you can have a decent future. More caucasian parents also now put huge amounts of pressure on their children, I was fortunate that my parents had faith in me and never pushed me. I know other caucasian people that are not so lucky.

However, overall it's true that we can choose which path and career we want to follow while at uni. Although, again, some caucasian parents want to choose that as well. Careers based on amounts of money made are becoming more and more emphasised in Australia as well, which I think is a shame. Then again, it's true that without at least some money how can you live life comfortably? My boss at my casual job constantly told me that I have to make sure I choose a uni degree based on how much money could be made afterwards. I didn't, and my parents supported me. I'm glad that I'm doing a course that I adore (Bachelor of Combined Arts majoring in Chinese Studies and Public Relations), and whatever happens after I graduate I'll deal with later. Although I know the pressure to study a degree with a well-paid job at the end comes from parents caring for their children and wanting the best for them.

I stress that you can't call one 'wrong' and the other 'right', or call one 'more effective' than the other - because both education systems are based on cultural values. All I can say is that I don't think anyone can generalise about a race as a whole being 'smarter' than another, everything's relative. I am extremely happy with the way I was brought up, and definitely don't think that I am stupider or smarter than someone who grew up under an 'Eastern' style of education.

ClicketyClam

10-20-2004, 11:50 PM

i think i to do alot with the way the family is also. azn parents are alot stricter and demanding. they all basically have the same expectations for their kids: grow up, get into harvard/yale/princeton, be a doctor engineer or lawyer and get rich. the caucasian schools put too much emphasis on things like sports and such. i don't know about everybody elses parents but my parents let me do those things up to middle school but once it was high school it was study study study and unless it looks good on ur resume you aren't doing it. i think that azn parents make their kids do alot of stuff out of school too. my mom used to teach me long division in elementary school but the kids in my school couldn't even do 3+4 in 4th grade. schools in asia are probably alot stricter and demanding just like our parents. and therefore the kids have to work harder and are therefore way smarter.

vicks

10-21-2004, 01:08 AM

well... i don't think it's right to say asian are SMARTER. there's 7 types of intelligences afterall. i agree.. in general, asian parents are more focused on school related studies. haha my mom used to make me do all the calculations in my head or on paper... never a calculator. but i've also realized that a lot of kids that are so bent on memorizing everything in a book have no common sense! you can read theories in a book but can you apply it? i think that's the real question. a lot of US schools teach more applications of real life situations

judes

10-21-2004, 05:33 AM

because you're smart in school doesn't mean you'll be smart in life.
but the truth is, working hard in school will get you somewhere in the future.
if you actually understand the concepts, and strive to go a step beyond what you're learning.

i like caucasian schools because they focus on a variety of things in the fine arts besides just strictly math and sciences. but i don't like caucasian schools because students show no respect for their teachers, and don't take what they're learning seriously.

you can bitch and moan about how your parents treat you any way you want, but the bottom line is, you don't just miraculously have the skills you need for the future, you have to learn it. and school is an attempt to help you make the best of your potential. i know that some parents can be strict and put a lot of stress on their children, and that is not a good way to encourage their kids, yet i know some kids that whine about how their parents treat them, and think that school is useless. or the kids that are so marks oriented that they can't see straight.

those are the kids that piss me off.

hard work will get you results.
taking what you're doing seriously will get you results.
if you take the time you spend whining and put them on other things, then maybe you'll get somewhere with your life.
that's my take on it.

o_0xrandomnessx0_o

11-22-2004, 08:06 AM

i agree with many of the posts above. asian schools do emphasize math and science a little too much i think, but still, it has its advantages. caucasian schools though, have more of a diversity? but either way, i think both have their advantages.

sorry if that was redundant with the previous posts :oops:

ShuiMei

12-02-2004, 08:59 AM

Does anyone else think it's completely ignorant to categorize the intelligence and qualities of an entire race of people so simply? Asians are smarter, Asians work harder, Asians are more demanding, Caucasians are less pressured, Africans are more athletic, Caucasians are the most balanced...

How one dares to generalize about millions of people with such ease is FAR beyond me...

pandi

12-02-2004, 09:36 AM

HarmonyCloud

01-24-2005, 05:33 PM

Actually to be honest, I do agree, I do think Asian schools may emphasize Math (I donno about Science) Only because there are a lot of students in my school who come from Korea or Taiwan, all of them are like Geniuses compared to us at math but then when it comes to topics like History, or Biology they don’t tend to do as well, and I don’t think its a language barrier thing even cause they speak English I know they do, but maybe their just lazy or maybe math comes easier to them but that tends to be what I notice.

swtaznkandi

01-24-2005, 05:49 PM

But I'm not sure we should say "Asians are smarter than Caucasians" because I think the fact is, the two education systems put emphasis on different things. There are a lot of things that Caucasians are good at that Asians aren't, but since these things aren't considered important in the Asian culture, we tend to disregard them.
i definitely agree. i'm an asian living in the us, and in school it is true that *generally* asians are better at math and physical (bio, chem, physics) science, but in other subjects like english, government, and especially the social sciences, white people *generally* tend to do better. and besides, i know a lot of asians who are horrible at math and science and a lot of white people who are absolutely fantastic at it. so i don't think one race is smarter than the other - i just think generally, asians tend to place more emphasis on math and science (the "practical" subjects) than other races do. i've really seen asians DRILL in math and science, and all the little asian kids here take outside classes and stuff.

rosiean86

01-25-2005, 04:08 AM

I totally agree with swtaznkandi. Although there is a stereotype that Asians are good in math & science, there are always exceptions to it. Asians tend to be practical and encourage their kids to do well in those subjects...I think white people tend to focus on developing their social skills more. I personally think that you shouldn't lean too much toward either side-it would be awesome if you could find a balance point between the math and science subjects, and the english + social science subjects. Anyway, my points is that Asians aren't smarter-they just work harder because most of them have parents pressuring them.

Plus, isn't there a right-brained/left-brained theory? Like, some people use their left brain more so they're more artistic...or something like that, I'm not too sure.

lil~jo

01-27-2005, 04:06 AM

Well, Rosian, its the left brain that is not as artistic as the right.
hehe...
The left is more practical....
Anyways, you're right, parents pressuring gets the asians to work harder....
ofcourse, they is also some insentive put into it....like....if you get all A+ this year you'll get $500.

But also....there is a punishment....like...no tv or no computer...and some parents still have physical punishments.

Another thing is Most Europeans give their kids a choice.
And they like their children to enjoy what their doing where as most of the traditional asian families got for the Name....like Doctor....this and that.

*in otherwards, they want their kids to go study for something that will make them earn loads....*
So, yeah....these are asian families....let me do say however, this isnt the case in all asian families ok?

:happy:

CybOrKoTiC

01-30-2005, 07:08 PM

Another thing is Most Europeans give their kids a choice.

Exactly correct!
whereas asian parents tend to expect us to achieve higher and higher,
BUT theyre like that because they werent as fortunate as us,
education wise and the difference of our generation compared to theirs.
us asian teens, take for granted what we have at times.
which is why some of us have 1-2 hour lectures from our parents.

Keep in mind that your parents are also being pressured from other families.
for example, go to a party, your parents friends ask how is your son/daughter
doing in their studies? she/he going to be a doctor wow blah blah etc etc...
so not only are you pressured to uphold the family name but you have your parents
and their friends expectation on your shoulders aswell.

back to the topic, asian schools are more strict and formal because of this we are taught
at an early age to study hard, work hard and achieve, where as
caucasian schools tend to have abit of slack if you know what i mean.
But in a multicultural school you will see that there is no difference.
and that some of us tend to slack around aswell. ( caucasian influence its there fault! )
personally i would rather to have learnt in an asian school,
not that i have regrets just that in china they do kung fu! man im so jealous.

quadshock

01-31-2005, 08:39 AM

ummm i'm guessing no one here knows about HK's educational reforms, supposedly starting in 2009 or something (i forgot), that would encourage liberal thinking even more than US schools?

correct me if i'm wrong b/c i didn't read all 7 pages...

twink0star

02-02-2005, 02:33 AM

asian are kinda better at math ...but then again u can say that for all asians ...and when other peoples at my school was like " asians are better at math" thats not really true tho ...that saying is kinda prejudice !

its so true that asian parents push their kids harder...or at least most of them anyway. ..i mean kids come up to ask...does your parents like beat u when u get a B ? i mean my parents could care less... but then i still get good grades....

causiasn parents just let their kids grow whatever way they want...they just point them in the better direction

asian parents know the path becuz they beent there (i mean all parents do) but they want their kids to be more successful and be on top ...

i think it is mostly becuz of pride tho hahaha

lil~jo

02-04-2005, 09:19 AM

hahaha...
but dont be so certain twinkOstar

Im in NZ, and there are some outstanding kiwis at maths...
whew...
One girl, got first in the westpac australian maths exam.....first between both countries...
Have you people heard of NSW exams?
Well this girl, got 100% for her english, high distiction for her maths and science, plus! computer.
She plays musical instruments AND also got an olympic medal for maths...
i think....yes she did.
So....there are a few......caucasians out there.....

aznsweet_sakura

02-04-2005, 11:16 AM

yea i have heard of them NSW exams, i have to do them every year, for school its compulsary to do the maths and english, this guy i remembered got 100% in computer and i like knew him and then i felt really stupid standing next to him >.<and yea he isnt asian either
but everytime they hand out an award majority of the distinctions and high distinctions and all most of the asians recieve them. but most asians that i know go tutoring so yea...but people that arent asian that i know are smart. one of my friend is from england and she is really smart to she got a distinction in english. but her parents are kind of strict, but sometimes it does depend on the family you live in and stuff.

ViBi

02-04-2005, 11:44 AM

the whole asians=maths/sciences and caucasians=humanities/arts is so extremely stereotypical!! there are so many asians who are outstanding in arts and many caucasians in sciences.. if u look back in history, most of the geniuses of the recent centuries have been caucasians!! there hasnt been many asians who have won nobel prizes for sciences etc.

i think it simply comes down to social emphasis. and by that i mean, asians put most emphasis on maths and sciences.. many asian parents consider a successful person by one who has achieved exceptionally in the academical field.. and considers music/sports etc etc hobbies, and not something that is i suppose "real" success.. unless that person is like a music prodigy or something.. (like jay..) in western society, there is more emphaisis on the social skills on a person and an individual is not so heavily defined upon their academic merits..

these social conditionings are there from the moment we are children and that is why i think ppl tend to see asians living in western countries excelling in maths/sciences etc but not as well in arts and humanity subjects..

seaweedpatchkid

02-15-2005, 04:38 AM

I go to an extremely Asian school in California and I'm proud to say that we can kick and white school's butts in testing. :P

Even our English is great! I don't know what it is...but I've always believed Asians to be harder workers and better at studying than students and white schools.

beyOnd aLL reasOn

02-15-2005, 06:21 AM

eh...well...what you say is true. as an ethnicity, we are known as harder workers etc. its just something imbedded in our culture.

but then again...the asian schools consist of kids of parents who worked hard enough to be able to come to the US. i think that might have somethign to do with it too. no all asians are super smart, just the ones here are harder workers cause their parents were smart/hard working enough to get here in the first place.

does that even make sense?

personally, i have no first hand experience with this.

>L a u r i esque<

Jossy

02-26-2005, 01:59 AM

problem is, asians think they are smart because they got their mafia-ways and stuff and always keep quiet when they are integrating in other countries... they feel superiour like cocasians feels superiour- they just wont shout it out loud because thats part of their wisdom.

u cant say that any race is smarter... there are dumb and smart people among every kind of group.
real wisdom lays in tradition, religion and willpower to learn.

lil~jo

04-22-2005, 04:53 AM

Very true.
Every race has their smart people.
It all just depends on peoples will power, whats edging them on to study and to do well.
Whether its by force of a parent or pier or their own determination.

POTO

12-05-2005, 10:44 AM

Asians schools are more study-based learning whereas american way of learning are much more flexible and broad-based.

Personally, I prefer American style of teaching cause it helps u to think critically instead of just waiting to be spoon-feed by the teachers

Melvin

12-08-2005, 05:24 AM

nah not really, who said the asians are much better at maths and science than the caucasians???

but since you say so, i may give a few reasons..

asians are generally more hardworking
asians are kind of brought up to be filial to the parents and not just to earn enough money for themselves to enjoy etc

actually there are very few reasons why asians score higher in examinations than caucasians, maybe because they think less of other distracting things...

such as boy & girl relationships, television shows, computer games and all the socially undesirable thoughts

and i think u should not mind so much when people tell you how to lead ur lives because ur advising you... me for one, i regret not listening to people's advice to study hard, now im left with the lousiest subject combination in all the schools.. and who can i blame? i think i can not only blame myself, but my school, my parents and so on... but wouldn't it be better if i just accepted it and tried to do well despite everything?

i'd say that no matter your race, you nationality, the only thing that is different is the opportunities for you to learn... if you are poorer and have insufficient money to buy books, you won't necessarily lose out to people who have money to buy them but don't bother to read them.. YES, you are less privileged then them in many things, you may have to take the bus to school while they get chauffeured to school, but it really doesn't make much of a difference.. to tell you the truth.. studying isn't really all hard work and suffering, it is actually how well you can manage it with other aspects of your life.. if you can still be happy, going out with your friends and still scoring well in school, i'd say you have learnt to manage your time well, and you wouldn't have to sacrifice happiness for academic success.

chineseguyjl

12-08-2005, 11:20 AM

Us asians are smarter because us and our parents have high expectations. Therefore they send us to afterschool and extra tuitions. Also some parents are competitive, hoping their child would get 1st in class... So they have to work double as hard.
Also the curriculum in Asian countries are harder. Maths is definately harder in Asian countries... So i guess it's a good thing :wink:
YESSSSS! and also cause over here (US), i guess everyone is laid back and doesnt care. so our schools tend to only have about 8 hours of school each day for 5 days a week, and we only have a total of 180 days of school in the year. i heard over in asia, the school hours are so much longer.

Learning (for grades) i would think it goes to the asians, but research (as in learning for fun and intellectual research) and beyond that prob the caucasions.

josh_yth

12-08-2005, 02:24 PM

i don't think there's really that much different between both of these school.

The only difference that i can think of is that asian school give you a lot more wrok in school, harder test, more misery. caucasian school tend to be more relaxing than asian's, because there's much more time 4 people to complete an assignment or class work.

countess

12-12-2005, 10:58 AM

I don't think that it's the schooling that makes Asians smarter that the rest of the community, rather i think it's the way that Asians are brought up. For instance, Asian parents always push their kids to do well at school and it becomes the central goal in their life. However, (australian) parents usually let their kids do what they like and you end up with an evenly spread group of people. When this is compared with the Asians, they a huge difference can be seen. For example, there are "selective highschools" in Australia and you have to sit an exam to get in. In my school there are about 80% Asians-including all of Asia. The smarter the school, the more Asians you see...

midori

12-14-2005, 04:30 AM

ive heard that the textbooks americans are using isn't as effective as those less bulky workbooks used by asian schools. so i guess thats part of the difference between an western and oriental place on schooling?

rhyslud

12-14-2005, 05:07 AM

To me it's more of a cyclical rise and fall of civilization thing that has been going on since the dawn of time.

An aspiring group sees another group who has developed a successful culture. The citizens are well fed, their daily needs are met and they have time to devote to the arts & vices and questioning the social order. They become fat, lazy and corrupt.

The aspiring group siezes on the opportunity to displace the complacent group. Either by attack or infiltration. They get into the positions of power and wealth. Eventually (generations), they become fat, lazy and corrupt.

Most white Americans (like me) have had everything handed to us (even if we're poor) we take it for granted that it will always be that way because our parents and grandparents had only a little sense of deprivation. My generation could never do what our forefathers did to create this country. As a group we are entirely too fat, lazy & corrupt.

So now Asia is on the rise. Especially China. Asian Americans are the new immigrant force to be reckoned with here in the US.

Looks to me like the cycle just continues. For my part, I'm studying Mandarin!

Melvin

12-15-2005, 11:11 AM

As a group we are entirely too fat, lazy & corrupt.

i think my generation is getting too fat, lazy and bored..

hmm... lifestyle...
asians would be known to have a harder lifestyle
while white americans would be known to have a very relaxed lifestyle..

curriculum..
asian schools besides language, teach maths, science, history
caucasian schools teach usually one language and the m,s,h

there was a study that showed that people who learnt two languages had better minds and were able to remember things better, i.e./that is to have a better memory.

asian schools could be more focused on practicality while caucasian schools could be more focused on m,s,h

ive heard that the textbooks americans are using isn't as effective as those less bulky workbooks used by asian schools. so i guess thats part of the difference between an western and oriental place on schooling?

hmm... i've always thought that my textbook were too thin and too brief...

sophstress

12-16-2005, 08:08 PM

I can't say what the differnces are between an asian school and a caucasian one, because quite frankly i've never been to a school with nothing but white people. I most of it has to do with culture and how you're raised, for the most part asian parents tend to stress education, at least my parents did. It has nothing to do with whether they're smarter, cause trust me I knew a lot of dumb asian kids in hs.

A lot of what you learn can depend on what you decide to take in hs and how much of it, or whether you're in honors/ap/ib or college prep. Plus depending on what college you go to, they have different guidelines as to what you have to have taken in hs. What they teach in those classes vary. But how much they learn also depends on how the school is. At my school you were required to have only 3 yrs. of math and science. A lot of my friends didn't take the 4th year, but I ended up taking ap bio and ap calculus my senior year. I also have friends who graduated hs having algebra being the highest math they took. Some are in college now taking the same algebra that I had when I was in middle school. But in terms of math we're still behind asian countries. Plus they start teaching their kids english when they're still young. Better than me when I didn't have language classes available until hs.

Melvin

12-21-2005, 10:53 AM

I can't say what the differnces are between an asian school and a caucasian one, because quite frankly i've never been to a school with nothing but white people. I most of it has to do with culture and how you're raised, for the most part asian parents tend to stress education, at least my parents did. It has nothing to do with whether they're smarter, cause trust me I knew a lot of dumb asian kids in hs.
A lot of what you learn can depend on what you decide to take in hs and how much of it, or whether you're in honors/ap/ib or college prep. Plus depending on what college you go to, they have different guidelines as to what you have to have taken in hs. What they teach in those classes vary. But how much they learn also depends on how the school is. At my school you were required to have only 3 yrs. of math and science. A lot of my friends didn't take the 4th year, but I ended up taking ap bio and ap calculus my senior year. I also have friends who graduated hs having algebra being the highest math they took. Some are in college now taking the same algebra that I had when I was in middle school. But in terms of math we're still behind asian countries. Plus they start teaching their kids english when they're still young. Better than me when I didn't have language classes available until hs.

yeah, about the education sysytem..
hmm that's pretty much the same as me, i'll be in senior year after this and i'll be taking calculus and bio too..