MP3, Movie, Software Downloading, double standard?

[jayx8318x]

I feel we've discussed something similar before, but here's a slight twist.

OK we all do it, at least 99.5% of the people at this forum do.
You hear a good song on the radio, or a new album from your favorite artist is coming out. With just a few clicks on the net, you can have these songs on your computer in no time. Cost to you: $0
(not including what the ISP charges, but you can always download at school, at a friends, etc.)

Do we know it's wrong (illegal)? Yes. Do we still do it anyways? Yes.

On the flip side, a new movie is coming out, it looks totally awesome and you're dying to see it. It takes a little more effort, but you can download it hours after it's been realeased. Do you do it? Well I figure there are different types of people:

1. Insane leeches that will download MP3s, ROMs (illegal copies of video games you can play on your computer instead of a gaming console), so of course they'll download Movies.

2. People who have seen the Movie in the theater, so a little part of them think it's OK to download.

3. People who will not download because it takes too much time and effort to get the download.

4. People who will not download because of the obvious moral implications.

I admit I'm a bit of #2, #3, and #4. If I've seen the movie, and totally loved it, I'll try to find it, but I don't go out of my way. If I don't find it and get it within an hour, I'll quit, that makes me #3. If I haven't seen the movie at all, I'm a #4.
In the end, if I really liked it, I will buy the DVD even after downloading (note: I have never downloaded a movie, these situations are hypothetical.)

So anyways, there does exist a double standard here as well. People who without 2nd thought download an MP3, but criticize those that download movies. What's the difference? It's not free to produce an album, just like it's not free to produce a movie.
Is it because the cost difference is higher? Where it costs only a couple hundred thousand for an album, but MILLIONS for a movie?

What are your views? Do YOU have a double standard?

[vunsin]

I don't have a double standard, I think. I think as long as you're downloading something, it's all the same thing, doesn't matter what you download. I download MP3s, but I don't download movies though. Time is not a problem because I have DSL. But I just don't download movies. With songs, I can listen to them again and again while I'm doing something else. Or I can also burn CDs and listen to those songs in my car. What do I do with movies? I don't need to download them. I don't download games either because I don't have time to play them.

Producing movies of course incur much higher costs because more people, equipments, technologies, time, etc. are involved. They might need to rent some locations for shooting too. There are permits and other fees they have to apply and pay for. They also have to pay for accomodation sometimes, and also food and beverages. Well, lots of things. The list go could on forever.

[kahel]

I don't see the difference too. Both does take time and money to produce. I have always believed in the concept of "free" as well as the concept of "respect" too. I know I have gained a lot of benefits from downloading free stuff from the net, besides from saving A LOT of money, I get to have access to files (esp Music, research papers, programs) unavailable in our area.

I am a computer science student and a big advocate of Open Source (where programs can be downloaded and accessed).

This is just my two cents, I'd like to hear more before I get into the debate.

[jayx8318x]

I always thought that music companies should just bypass the packaging and distributing of physical CDs, or at least make signicantly fewer amounts, and have the songs readily available online. So in other words, make the songs free. Artists can make money on concerts, and other live appearances. But then that puts ALOT of people out of work, and businesses (music retailers, record companies) suffer.

Just outta curiousity, is it wrong to record a song off the radio?

I should have expanded this topic a bit more, like talk about the impact of the internet(whether more positive or negative) on society.

And software licensing issues and piracy. Was anyone else totally pissed off when Microsoft imlplemented their online product activation process, and you could only activate, which in turn means install, your product 2 times? That sucked for me because I installed XP on my desktop, and then on my laptop...activated it just fine, but a couple months later I had to reinstall on my laptop, but I couldn't activate it. I found a work-a-round, albeit illegal, but I felt I bought the damn thing, I should be able to install it as many times as I want. I understand they were trying to stop piracy...but still at great inconvenience to law abiding customers. I believe it's been discontinued now though?

So have you also downloaded illegal software? I know MANY people at my school have illegal copies of all sorts of expensive software, and how many of us here can say we have a LEGAL copy of Adobe Photoshop? :whistle:

So how do you justify downloading $500+ software on the net?

[vunsin]

This isn't really a debate, but I just want to share my experience. When I was back in Malaysia, there was a whole market for pirated softwares. There was a whole section of town in downtown Kuala Lumpur for selling pirated softwares, CDs, movies, and more. They had US movies that weren't even released in the US theatres yet! In malls, there were whole wings for that purpose. And then there was also a whole mall downtown doing the same thing. So, sorry to say, I've never bought a single legal software in my whole life.

In fact, I've never really bought that many softwares at all. My younger brother's the computer genius in the family. When he was 7 years old he took our first computer apart and then fixed it. It was broken and the technician couldn't fix it. He's also been doing some hacking and code-cracking since before he was 10 years old. He could get anything we wanted online. I also have a few friends who have that "talent."

So anyways, back to Malaysia. How could they expect anyone to buy anything legal if everything you could find were illegal copies? We didn't know WHERE to find the legal stuffs even if we wanted to. They even set up their stalls outside the police station and the police would go and buy from them! Of course, those were the good old times. I heard recently the government has been actively fighting against piracy. So now the whole mall has closed down and a lot of people are out of business. Haha... Sections of malls have also been emptied out.

As for the question about recording songs off the radio, that should be illegal too. The only difference is that they'd have no way of knowing who's done that, unlike with the internet.

[jayx8318x]

So, sorry to say, I've never bought a single legal software in my whole life.


Wow I wasn't even asking who would buy illegal software :D
I would never BUY anything illegal. And I think anyone who does is an idiot, because the smart thing to do would be:
1). Buy the original
or
2). Download it from the net for FREE
Buy yeah I understand that it's different for parts of the world where pirated stuff is all over the place.

About the movies being out on DVD before they're even shown in the theaters, yeah this DJ I listen to talked about his experience in NYC Chinatown, there was an old lady out in the market selling DVDs of movies not realeased in theaters yet. So he got curious and bought one for $6. He went back to the hotel room to watch it, but when he opened it up, it was actually something old like Gladiator, and it wouldn't even play on the DVD player.

Yeah this isn't much of a debate...but it's alright, at least we're not discussing dandruff or how many strands of hair Jay has grown or loss since yesterday.

[vunsin]

About the movies being out on DVD before they're even shown in the theaters, yeah this DJ I listen to talked about his experience in NYC Chinatown, there was an old lady out in the market selling DVDs of movies not realeased in theaters yet. So he got curious and bought one for $6. He went back to the hotel room to watch it, but when he opened it up, it was actually something old like Gladiator, and it wouldn't even play on the DVD player.

Oh, those I was talking about were the actual movies. Good qualities too!

Yeah this isn't much of a debate...but it's alright, at least we're not discussing dandruff or how many strands of hair Jay has grown or loss since yesterday.

I guess this isn't much of a debate because we're all on one side of the fence: the consumers.

[babyxv]

I think it's impossible to control movie downloading online. Most of the movies available online are recorded by people who bring their camcorders into the theatre. They can't check everyone's bags/purses before they enter the theatre.

Downloading music online is also impossible to control. People can use CD rippers ( is that what they're called?). People could distribute music to friends over.. say, AIM. No one would know. And those copy-controlled CD's obviously don't work. Jay's CD was supposedly copy-controlled; but we managed to get the mp3s here.

SO, my point is.. none of this should be illegal because it can never be STOPPED. People are just wasting time, effort, and money trying to catch whoever downloads the most. Honestly, if I got fined for downloading, I wouldn't stop. I'd just be more careful about WHERE I'm downloading my stuff from.

[jayx8318x]

Oh yeah I remember I bought the pirated version of CTHD, but I couldn't help it, I loved that movie so much after I saw it.

And also Jay's The One Live Concert I have is pirated.
But it's because stupid YesAsia put it on sale. I didn't think a big public good standing company like them would sell pirated stuff, so I didn't bother to check the authenticity.

And I started this topic because I noticed some members in the Kill Bill thread expressed how wrong it was to download the movie, but I know for a fact they download mp3s all the time without care.

[vunsin]

I think they should just allow us to download MP3s online with a small fee. I think that's reasonable. I mean, I'd really like to get some songs but I don't want the whole album, so if I could just pay like $1 or $2 for an MP3 then I'd do it. It'd be a win-win situation for everyone.

It doesn't matter what method they come up with to stop people from copying CDs. Some people will still come up with a way to do it. Like the copy-controlled CDs, I think people figured out a way to copy those within days of the release of the first batch. How? Well, these CDs are copy-controlled because of some codes on the back of the discs where the data are. So some smart soul figured out if they could just use permanent markers to cover those codes, they'd be able to copy the CDs. Haha... See how much money they invested to come up with THAT method, and all you need is a $1 permanent marker to defeat them. How sad...

[jayx8318x]

What I don't get is, don't these people know that?
That even though they try to copy protect the CDs, they're out on the net in mere hours?

So why do they keep making the effort to do it?
I'm thinking the obvious answer is they don't want to 'admit defeat' in a sense.

[babyxv]

I think they should just allow us to download MP3s online with a small fee. I think that's reasonable. I mean, I'd really like to get some songs but I don't want the whole album, so if I could just pay like $1 or $2 for an MP3 then I'd do it. It'd be a win-win situation for everyone.

But I think a lot of people download MP3s NOT because they're free, but just because it's more convenient. And if you get sick of the song, you can just delete it. If I had to pay $1 or $2 for one MP3, I don't think I'd do it. But maybe I'm just cheap or something.

It doesn't matter what method they come up with to stop people from copying CDs. Some people will still come up with a way to do it. Like the copy-controlled CDs, I think people figured out a way to copy those within days of the release of the first batch. How? Well, these CDs are copy-controlled because of some codes on the back of the discs where the data are. So some smart soul figured out if they could just use permanent markers to cover those codes, they'd be able to copy the CDs. Haha... See how much money they invested to come up with THAT method, and all you need is a $1 permanent marker to defeat them. How sad...

:excited: So THAT'S how they do it!! I learn something new everyday. How do you know WHERE the codes are? o_O

[vunsin]

babyxv, I'm not sure where exactly the codes are, but they should be on the outermost part of the CDs. I think the codes are long and go all around the CD, so all you have to do is destroy any part of it. Just scribble freely with that marker. Haha...

About paying for the MP3s, of course if I have the choice, I wouldn't want to pay for it. :wink2: But I was just saying that it'd be FAIR for everyone involved. At least the recording industry wouldn't exactly have to admit defeat that way and they'd also have some sort of control over downloading. And I certainly wouldn't mind if I could download some really hard to find songs for just $1 or $2, especially those out of print ones. Paying $1 for what I want is better than paying $17 for 9 songs that I don't want.

[kahel]

And software licensing issues and piracy. Was anyone else totally pissed off when Microsoft imlplemented their online product activation process, and you could only activate, which in turn means install, your product 2 times?

Microsoft, oh let's not start about how much I hate them (though I have Xp on my PC now, hehe). That sucks! We discussed in one of our classes about how Microsoft had this thing about their End-User's license agreement about them going over supposed "system" files while you're on the net. Think about it...Bill Gates and all his evillness peeking at your computer. I'm not sure about this, I haven't read the License Agreement. Too lazy to do so. But if ever...Okay I'm going off topic. :blush:

About pirated softwares, *looks around if anybody here works for Microsoft and all those big software companies*, well, ummm, almost all my software are pirated. :blush: Here in Manila, piracy is everywhere and with the kind of economic crisis going on here, if you're going to think about practicality vs. morality, there are moments that you'd choose practicality. Like when pirated software, CDs, VCDs, DVDs are around you for really low prices, what would you choose? I guess the piracy situation in SE Asia is the same, whichever country.

And not all people here in the Philippines can afford licensed software, which cost about P4000 (about $60) an could feed the family for 2 weeks.

Hmmm, I love this topic...Finallt my college education can be put to use. hehe.

[cici bebe]

I would only download from "big" artists such as Avril Lavigne or Beyonce, the ones that can sweep in a ton of money and not have to suffer through trying to gain more publicity and fame. As for "smaller" artists/bands like Something Corporate or Dashboard Confessional, I always buy the CDs. It's just a way I support them.

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to d/l from the big artists, because they have so much money already there is really no need for me to contribute more to them since I don't have all the money in the world to spare.

[cloUdsuRFer]

i dunno... i'm hesitant to add my two cents here...seeing as i really don't kno what i'm talking about....
but the thing with cds...and not buying them...artists don't get much cut from cd sales but mostly get their money from appearances and concerts and endorsements.....who actually does lose out from piracy is the record companies....

but then again...if the record companies lose out...then they can't sign/take a chance on new artists....i dunno....tho they too get money from concerts (do they????)

i think all i've managed to do is confuse myself...

[shouling]

I started this topic because I noticed some members in the Kill Bill thread expressed how wrong it was to download the movie, but I know for a fact they download mp3s all the time without care.

LOL~! thats what i thought when i read the title.
i too purchased a copy of The One only to realize it wasnt real. :-x

well as one of the people who mentioned this in the other thred, here is what i am.

like yourself Karen i am #3 and #4.

i will pay money to see a movie in the theatre many times (underworld 3 times :) ). i will not d/l a movie. regardless of how great it is. i aspire to be a member of the film making industry, hence why i see the wrong ness in it.

as for mp3s....yea i d/l a song if i like only one song by the artist, or a few songs to hold me till i can get my hands on the album. I NEVER DOWLOAD A WHOLE ALBUM~! i believe in giving credit where credits due. if i like an artist/group that much...i will take the money to buy it.

that is my doubble standard. if you wish to call it that.

[sundae]

hmm....personally i have no problems with downloading movies, songs, tv shows etc etc, in fact i download so much that each month i my internet company capps me haha.

the reason i download so much is though, in australia it really hard to get copies of real asian cd's anyway, and if you can they are really, really expensive, its so much easier just to click and download it straight onto my computer and within minutes i can listen to it.

also with t.v shows, all my favourite shows which include, one tree hill, the oc, desperate housewives etc etc (i am a maJOr tv junkie hehe) which all air in america, either don't air in australia or they are really, really behind, and i'm one of those people who have to know whats going on.

but i don't download everything, like if its something i'm really looking forward to and will be like a hundred times better in the cinmea i'll be there i.e initial D....jay on the big screen cannot wait :)

[hisashiluv14]

I only download mp3s but I don't download an entire album. I like owning CDs anyway so if I like more than two songs from a band/singer, I'd buy the album. I don't download movies; I hate watching movies on my laptop cos the sound quality is pathetic, and I'm very, VERY anal about movie-watching. IE, I have to do it in the theatres if it's a movie I really wanna watch, or I'd die. As for software...okay, I admit that my Photoshop is illegal and so is my Zuma Deluxe but that's about it. If Photoshop were more affordable though (ie NOT 700 Sing dollars which is crazy) I'd definitely buy the original. If I had a credit card I'd also pay to play Zuma Deluxe.

All in all, the best way to combat Internet downloads and piracy is to make CDs, DVDs/VCDs and software more affordable. I don't like the idea of CDs going straight to the Net though, 'cos I like owning CDs and having a lyric booklet to look at. It's fun and cool so there you go. And not all artists have endorsements and a significant number of them rely on CD sales to make a living. I believe in giving credit where it's due too, and most of the time, the best way to show that you appreciate an artist is by giving them your money. It's as simple as that.

[snowflake]

There is definitely double standard on these downloading.
What I dislike is the high price of software. They said it is wrong to use illegal copies but look at how expensive it was to buy it (as hisashiluv14 had posted). The price it crazy for people who just want to use it at home and not earning any money from the software. Windows has OEM version maybe the graphics design companies should have something similar.
I do dl mp3 but try to limit myself and not just download for the sake of downloading and I had never download any movies at all.

[midori]

It's because theres a tremendous amount of sites that offer free Mp3 downloads, and they tell you to "delete after 24 hours" but do people really listen? I guess it takes more effort to download movies and most movies aren't of good quality I'm assuming.

[celinechen92]

Well for me, we had to do this hawaii dance last year, and we badly needed the movie Lilo and Stitch (it's a long story, but we just needed the VCD/DVD for it.) None of us had it, and suddenly one of my classmates suggested that we could actually rent the original VCD for just two dollars at the nearby VCD rental shop, then burn a copy of it, and return it to the shop.

Well he didn't do it in the end because we managed to find a copy of the movie from our friends from the other class. But my point is, this is also another way of getting a copy of the movie that you want, along with the other methods already mentioned earlier. I guess there is no end in stopping piracy.

However I do agree that we should be able to download a certain MP3 for just a dollar or two off the net, so we don't have to buy a whole album when we just want a certain song from there.

In fact, why don't they just lower the price for the CDs? Of course I know people would still rip it off the net (duh) than spend money on the album, but my point is, since the artistes earn so much, would it hurt to just lower the price for the albums by a bit? Being people who make music, artistes claim that they enjoy what they are doing, they want people out there to enjoy listening to the music they create. So why not just earn lesser by a bit? Hahaha okay I know I'm getting lame here. Sorry about that. haha.

[hil_sky]

Well, I don't think the artists or their company should blame us (downloading songs) if their albums' sales aren't good. Like Jay, we download his songs right? But we still buy the CDs, right? If the artist is good enough, he/she won't have to worry about people not buying their CDs. I mean... in Hong Kong they always have that 'Don't download music' and stuff but in Taiwan, they don't do that very often. That's because the music are actually better in Taiwan. In HK, only 2 or 3 songs are good in the whole album for some artists.

For software... can't they just make them cheaper? So more people can afford them and they won't have to worry about people downloading them.