Anti Patty Haters (Read all of Pg. 1 before jumping in)

[twilighthush]

READ THIS BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING
1. This thread is not a support thread for Patty Hou. If you are a Patty fan, please go to her own thread to support her.

2. This thread is not a debate thread. If you would like to debate, please go to the debates forum to do so.

3. Do not whine, bitch, or nag about the existence of this post or risk having your posts removed by moderators for going against the rules of this forum. It is not a flame post. I am not targeting any one individual, but a group, which is, as you can read above, Patty Haters.

This post is not an anti-anti Patty Hou or a post that explains why we love her so much, but why we hate the kind of bashing, the kind of hating, the kind of nonsense that fans believe they are justified to do towards this poor woman.

I would like to clarify another thing: I am not at all a Patty Hou fan. In fact, I'm rather indifferent towards her and don't actually care about her as an icon. I do, however, sympathize very deeply with what she was put through as "Jay's girlfriend" by both the media and his "fanbase". Yes, fanbase in quotes.

It disgusts me that anyone who can call themselves a fan of Jay can bash Patty so mercilessly when it is very clear, in the news, especially as of late, that she and Jay were victims to media -- especially with what he had to say about it as of late.

That the media broke them up.
That he had a happy relationship.
That he made mistakes by saying wrong things.
And that he didn't want to hurt her.

If we listen to songs like "White Windmill" it can be speculated that Jay wrote the song for her. Just check our Lyrics Forum to see what it's about. It's absolutely heartwrenching, realizing the kind of tragic romance they ended up having because of the pressure of media.

P.S. To all of you HATERS out there -- if you can read this (http://jay-chou.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21508) and this (http://jay-chou.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21309), and STILL hate her, well, then you just have no heart at all.
P.P.S. While you're at it, read this (http://jay-chou.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21522) too. Cuz I bet that's exactly how Jay feels about all of this shit, based on what he had to say to the media yesterday, and those heartwrenching lyrics.

[ColaPoP]

Krystal, you're a smart girl & someone that I admire...
but why start an 'Anti'-thread to hate on member's of this forum?

When things got out-of-hand in the Anti-Patty thread, everyone called it to a halt so people could redirect the hate back to the topic & not members that are trying to defend her. What is the point of this thread? What you have created is essentially a 'flame'-thread, to encourage members to flame one another.



There will be NO COMPLAINTS made about why so-and-so was listed here or how this member was mean to your favourite blah blah blah (in this case, Patty). If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

3) No flame-wars. There will be no personal insults like "You are stupid because you hate X" and no name-calling like "You are an idiot because you dissed my favourite lalala". If you flame, you will be banned, simple.

If you like Patty Hou, go to this thread: Patty Hou discussion/pic thread (http://jay-chou.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17047)
If you don't like her, go here: Anti-Patty Hou (http://jay-chou.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20812)

[cacky]

Yeah, I agree with you ColaPoP, I don't think this thread should be up. In the sense that, everyone's entitled to their own opinions. And bearing in mind, some of us hate Patty not becoz' she was Jay's galfriend.

Besides, if you want to defend Patty, then there is already a Patty thread. Like ColaPoP said too, by doing this, you're giving people a chance to flame the members who posted in the Anti-Patty thread and if this trend goes on ... wouldn't we have more of Anti-Anti Lin Chiling or Anti-Anti Paris Hilton? Then what's the point right?

And people won't dare to start out Anti threads anymore ... and thus defeating the purpose of this whole Anti-X category.

[twilighthush]

Honestly, my gripe is more against fangirls than it is about the Patty situation. The biggest reason why I created this (and I talked to 2 other mods before I made it to see if they thought it would be peachy before I did) is mostly because I feel that the Patty situation actually exposes fangirls at their absolute worst.

I find fangirls absolutely repulsive and personally can't stand them and really don't understand how anyone can be so blind as to not realize that the idol is human, and take every chance to attack the people in their lives that they care about the most.

I find the bastardization of a human being, in this case, the woman that Jay very much obviously, OBVIOUSLY cared for and loved very much, something that just boggles my mind considering the fact that no one hated Patty until she was Jay's girlfriend.

Logically speaking let's talk about why people hate Patty. Anyone can argue, "Oh, we don't hate Patty cuz she was Jay's girlfriend" but where is the rationality in that? Why would you have any reason to hate her to begin with if she wasn't Jay's girlfriend? People wouldn't even know who she is, for heaven's sake. The very fact that she was Jay's girlfriend at one point is precisely what adds fuel to the fire.

Furthermore, you say that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. That means I'm entitled to mine, and quite honestly I find this whole hatred-of-Patty-Hou thing absolutely despicable and the whole fangirling thing absolutely retarded.

Originally, I wanted to make an Anti-Fangirls thread, but after reading that news article, reading the lyrics to White Kite, I kinda decided to take another route.

Isn't it true that Anti-X is supposed to be a place where you can gripe about whatever you want? I was under that impression, which is why I created this thread.

Personally, I think this might be a better discussion for the debates forum, because I actually would like to see controversial responses and members trying to defend their blatant fangirlism syndrome, but at the same time it is an outcry against the ignorance, the blindness, and the hypocrisy of fandom, how one can say they support a star, but turn around and tear apart the person he cares about the most. If you support a star, isn't it true that you should also support his interests? At least that's the way I've always seen it, jealousy not withstanding.

This thread isn't meant to be a flame thread, so much as it is a place where people like me can express how they feel about haters, and not just any haters, but Patty-specific haters. Why? Because there is a big difference between Patty-haters and anyone else-haters. Why? Simply because of the outright abuse the media gave Jay and Patty.

But if it's okay to censor one hatred over another, simply because you fear the risk of it turning into a flame war, aren't we missing out on the bigger picture? And aren't we also underestimating the maturity of the members of JCNET? I'd like to believe that people can understand why someone would create a Patty-hater-specific Anti-X thread, especially after that news article, and those lyrics. Even the Patty haters.

It's very hard for someone to defend what they hate when they have no logical justifiable ground to stand on. And it's very easy for me to say, look, I hate fangirls. But I probably hate anti-Patty fangirls the most.

However, out of respect for JCNET and for the moderation team, I'll leave it up to judes to decide where this goes since she's the primary leader of both the debates forum and the Anti-X forum.

I'll be gone till approximately 9PM est (though I'll be able to access JCNET around 3:30PM est - 5:40 est) so I won't really be able to check back here to see updates and to see if there's anything I need to change, but I'll be happy to revise things to match the guidelines a little better.

I didn't personally feel I was starting a flame war, but I'll leave it up to others' discretion and appreciate the concern addressed very much.

I hope my post has clarified my intentions a little more.

[Singerchick]

^ I agree with you in a sense.

However it's not exactly "fangirlism" that I dislike, because to some degree most people "fangirl." I dislike over-the-top fans who start believing that they will truely marry Jay Chou and have his children. I think it's ok to joke occasionally with, "I wish Jay was my B/F." But it gets annoying when fans really take this serious and get jealous when Jay gets a girlfriend. I mean please.

I agree that's it's ok to dislike someone with valid reason, but it's simply wrong to dislike someone just because she is going out with Jay Chou.

However-over-the-top fans don't only become possesive when it comes to Jay's romantic life, they are also blind to Jay's faults, and attack other stars that attack Jay's "superiority". So I think instead of creating an Anti-Anti- Patty Hou thread, wouldn't it make more sense to create a "Anti-over-the-top-fans" thread? Or perhaps you can start a topic in debate asking for logical reasons why some people dislike stars, aside from shallow reasons such as "Just becuase," or "because she was with Jay."

Because like Colapop mentioned earlier, it would defeat the purpose of the anti-x board if there were anti-anti threads.

[jayx8318x]

It would make sense if this was the Anti - Patty Hou Anti Fans, because like Pei said, if you're anti-anti Patty Hou herself, then you need to post in the Patty Hou Fan thread.

And if it is a thread against anti-fans, then it shouldn't be directed at any one member directly, but more in a general sense.

If those requirements are met, then I don't see any problem with this thread.
Again if this thread turns into a how much I admire Patty thread, then it loses it's purpose bc it will become Patty Hou Fan Thread #2.

I hate hate by association, that's why I've stayed away from that Anti-Patty thread, it makes no sense meh. Even if I'm neither pro-nor-anti Patty.

Next thing you know we'll have an Anti-Hebe thread. Oh but not an Anti-SHE thread because he's not "dating" the entire team. I'm waiting for someone to create an Anti-Anti Jay thread, I'm sure they're dying out there hearing us say all those things about him :rolleyes:

But if we keep having Anti, then Anti-Anti threads, then isn't that pretty much a debate? So it should go in the debates forum. I kinda like to see where this goes tho, if anything ..we are trying to stir up some interesting discussions aside from what color do you think Jay's toothbrush is.

[twilighthush]

^ I also hate hate by association, ah such a lovely contradiction.

I think I'm going to revise this post a little more. I wrote it at 3am after I finished my fanfic so I was rather emotional and passionate and wanted to get it up before I went to bed and didn't really think about how I worded it.

I'm gonna revise now!

Thank you for everyone's input. I appreciate it a lot. <33

I'm actually not for or against Patty either. I'm rather neutral, mostly because a celebrity's love life is their own and I don't really care about it. I am, however, very much against the hatred towards her that is completely unjustified and ridiculous.

[pureintuiti0n]

Agreed. I don't particularly care about Patty as a celebrity. I do sympathize with her because being Jay's girlfriend is hard. You're constantly going to be in the spotlight. Plus, she was braver than Jay was to clear up the confusion surrounding their break-up.

[judes]

hmm.

my opinion on this is that we should broaden this topic, so that it's like what you originally intended "an anti-fangirling" discussion / debate meant more for the debate forum or if you want to leave it in the anti forum as the anti-fangirl thread, that's fine too, but you may not get the type of discussion that you want and it may degrade into the general "i hate immature fan girls too yeah!!! etc etc".

i think the problem, like a few others have mentioned for naming this thread "anti-anti" is that people will automatically jump to someone's defense and then think that it's all a target towards them when in actuality it is not, because they won't even bother to read the entirety of the thread.

so, if there could be some kind of revision for the thread to either take it in the debate direction or broadening/focusing the topic away from the anti-anti aspect (anti patti fans, instead of anti patty, for instance) for this forum. you've changed it to anti-patti fans though, and karen says it's acceptable so if it's made clear, then it's fine.

krystal are you keeping it here or moving it to debate? your call.

[twilighthush]

Okay, I think this thread is going to stay here and I'm going to make a broader fangirl-specific thread in the debates forum sometime soon, that will cover all Insert-Jay-Love-Interest-Here-Haters debate.

[petricia]

Hmmm.. maybe we can make this into a debate topic instead... Something about Extreme fangirling-ism... At times, I just feel that they are so irrational, hating someone just because he/she is a love-interest of another idol/singer etc. That's so unfair to both parties.

[Singerchick]

Hmmm.. maybe we can make this into a debate topic instead... Something about Extreme fangirling-ism... At times, I just feel that they are so irrational, hating someone just because he/she is a love-interest of another idol/singer etc. That's so unfair to both parties.

I agree.

It's basically extreme fans in general whom are pregnant with irrationality that annoy me. They won't argue even with relevant facts.

I get so annoyed when I see, "Oh ____ sucks because he/she is beating Jay."
I think some fans take their relationship with Jay way too personally.

[gifted1]

I don't know but I don't think I'm going to help twilight with this post. I once liked Patty but now I hate her. I posted in the other thread that is the "Anti-Patty Hou" Thread so I'm not even going to attempt posting anything here...

Actually, does this belong here? Because literally, what you're saying is that this thread is like Anti-JCNET people that hates Patty Hou.

And me hating her has nothing to do with Jay actually, it's more about her faking and how she's trying to be all-this-goody girl.

[twilighthush]

^ That's assuming you even know anything about her to begin with. It's preposterous to assume that you know a single true fact about any celebrity unless you:

A. Worked with them
B. Are their friends
C. Are them

End of story.

I'm going to start a debate sometime later today if you want to argue your case, but until then, this thread is not for haters to try and justify their turf but for people who find haters ridiculous and wanna state our opinion.

And yes, it does belong here.

[cacky]

I honestly think you're being a little extreme here ... I mean ... what's wrong with people airing out their dislikes at a celebrity? Honestly, I find your posts too strong. Does it mean that you have to know someone thoroughly before you show dislike?

Sometimes, it's the impressions that these celebrities leave on us that causes us to show acts of dislike or perhaps hatred. That's why we have the Anti-X thread. Otherwise, it would seem a bit meaningless.

I agree that starting a debate against irrational fans or extreme fans would be good. Coz' I also agree that hate be association is simply uncalled for. But don't forget, everyone of us go through a phase in our life whereby we are in that fangirl mode.

And some of us just outgrow it faster than the rest, while some of us stay at that stage for a long while. Or some of us simply skip that phase? You gotta understand that everyone's made differently so everyone's entitled to their own likes or dislikes.

You can't control what they think. Also, I don't think I need to know Patty that well enough (ie. to meet your 3 criteria) in order for me to dislike her. And neither am I one of those hate by association kinda fans. In fact, I merely think she's overrated.

There are definitely more talented and genuine artistes than her who deserve more attention. On the other hand, I think you're being a little overboard in supporting her from reading your posts.

[twilighthush]

I honestly think you're being a little extreme here ... I mean ... what's wrong with people airing out their dislikes at a celebrity?

It's one thing to dislike a celebrity. I dislike many celebrities, but usually there are rational grounds for it. I explained my rationale behind creating this thread very clearly in a previous post on Page 1 and I highly recommend that you read this entire thread before making another comment that goes against the rules of this forum.

Another thing is, I am as much entitled to my opinion of people who hate celebrities (or Patty in particular, due to the extreme circumstances that surround her) as you are of your opinion of a star. I don't actually give a shit about Patty, and I am not going to repeat myself one more time. I don't know a single thing about Patty Hou, nor do I care to know. I am not a fan of Patty. I do not care what she does.

I however, find the reaction the fans have towards this woman absolutely disgraceful and vile. And I am allowed to think that. And I am also allowed to say that I hate it.

And I do.

[judes]

i'm going to jump in and be modly here.

everyone has a right to express their own opinions as long as it's in a mature and logical manner. i've talked offline with twilighthush and i believe that her intentions are clear and she has every right to make this thread just as you have every right to make your posts in the anti-patty thread.

so please read the discussion on the first page before you jump in. all posts that are off topic will be deleted. don't feel like it's a personal attack against you, because it's not. but as long as NO NAMES ARE POINTED OUT in this thread and that this does not turn into a giant flamewar, the thread remains open.

if you have something to contribute and comment to the thread regarding the attitude and ways of expression of anti-patty people, then please post. if you are insulted and think that the thread is a big middle finger pointed up towards you and feel the need to defend yourself, then click the back button and go somewhere else or go to the anti-patty thread.

[yukiko]

And me hating her has nothing to do with Jay actually, it's more about her faking and how she's trying to be all-this-goody girl.

How did you find out that she's faking? and trying to be all-this-goody-girl?
Everybody in the entertainment world ARE FAKING. So does Jay, (maybe) and will you hate jay for being a fake? i think you wont hate him.
all i know that patty is a very high-educated girl, then she can be a news reader. it's not an easy job to do.

everybody have a sin, but being jay's girl friend is not the sin then you have to hate her

i ever hated jolin for being jay's rumoured girl friend, but lately i find out that it's not her fault if they were really a couple, but as i know so far, jay never admitted that they were one before.
The only girl jay ever admitted as his girl friend is Patty, that's make sense that now she got many hater.

as twillie has said before, you ONLY MAY judge her for being FAKE and trying to be-all-this-goody-girl if you really know HER in REAL WORLD.

[twilighthush]

Friendly reminder: Please don't turn this thread into a debate! We appreciate everyone's ideas and thoughts, but let's try to follow the rules.

Thanks!

[zhoudaoyan]

um heh... *looks around shiftily*
i know maybe i'm not supposed to post here because maybe it's not relevant and people already warned about not starting a debate.

but just a quick something..

as starter of the Anti-Patty thread.. i would like to state here that i have no problem with this forum since everyone is free to think what they want and i know that this thread won't interfere with ours as well. so alls good (:

also that our reasons for anti-pattying are not because of her status with jay or anything to do with jay. (:

cheers!!

[simple_girl]

im not an anti-patty hou hater or anything nor a fan..i dont think people should hate her coz she's going out with jay NOR do i think jay fans should hate the girl going out with jay but... we can say one thing: patty hou's relationship with jay chou has skyrocketed her fame [and people actually know who she is]..

the reasons of your forum is not to hate patty hou coz shes going out with jay.. then logically should it be anti jolin/patty/vivian [you get the point..all his rumoured girlfriends] be the same of this thread.. instead of one person..coz i bet those artists got some hate from jay fans too..

but yeah...the media did kind of break them up..but i doubt that was all from media..i reckon poeple hate her coz shes going out with jay and is a newsreader..i bet fans think..what a couple[she's below him?..shes not from his industry..at least she doesn't pretend to knows how to speak english..she actually does *coughjolintsai]

i dont hate patty hou..just reckon she cant really sing[but which taiwanese female can?] or rap..havent seen her act yet

but i do sympathise with whoever is going out with jay chou..and jay chou..his like one of asia's most popular artists

and with people saying she doesn't suit him at all..no offence but i doubt anyone of us is jay chou or people jay confide in..who are we to know what kind of girl he should go for..we're fans of jay's because of his music not love life

[British Jay Fan]

I don't know a huge amount about Chou-Hou's relationship but I would like to add my views on here. More than 2 years after they've split, I think it's pretty obvious that Jay still has it bad for Patty from an article I have read that is more reliable than the gossipy ones. Also I have read Hou's side of the story from a respectable article and it seemed like she wanted marriage out of him, but he wasn't ready. Despite what the trashy sections of the media might say I don't believe there were any "other women" or "other men" concerned, it seems like the media scrutiny was mostly to blame. If you watch the Wo Bu Pei MV it's blatantly obvious that it's about Hou and because that's one of Jay's saddest MVs and one so personal, I always tear up thinking about his heartbreak over this relationship breakup. At least Patty doesn't go around making rude and sarcastic remarks about Jay like Jolin does and I have heard from a recent article that she and Jay are still on friendly terms with each other. All those who slate Hou on here are blatantly jealous because she was Jay's girl a few years ago.