Translation Section discussion

[macdawn]

Jay-related news translation has been a really big part of how JCN managed to attract so many people from all over the world.

Following the plans for the revamp JCN, the Jay-news related sub forum will also undergo certain changes, hopefully to maintain the high level of standards we have achieved all these years. And I have volunteered to take charge of the translation related sub-forums.

There are a few issues I would like to discuss with regards to the sub-forum:

News & articles translations
One thing I would like to keep after the revamp of JCN, is the supply and flow of Jay-related news and articles. JCN will, hopefully, continue to provide accurate and good translations of Jay related news articles.

For Jay related news
Our translators will do what we have been doing all these while, search for new articles and translate them accordingly, and post them.
Other than Jay, who else?
In addition to Jay related news, in view of the opening up of sub-forum for other artistes, which another artistes will justify for a sub-forum of their own?

And please keep in mind that, if an artiste is given a sub-forum, fellow interested translators will have to make effort to search out new and related articles for translations, just like what we have been doing for Jay. When requesting for the sub-forum here now, you have to be pretty certain that the news and translation are not going to dry up after a couple of months.

We'll set up one or two Artiste News subforum, just for starters to see how the response goes before we decide on the feasiblity of having other Artiste news subforum.


Artiste Album Translation
I'm a bit hestitant about having a sub-forum for these, not because I don't think we need these, but it may get a bit confusing for people navigating through our forum for the first time. And when newbies get confused..... new threads will pop up.... :dry:


English Subbing
Seems like there is quite a few requests for a 'subbing' section, so there maybe potential for a subforum that caters to subbing for TV clips and *even* dramas :shock: (I had done it before a long long time ago, and I think it is a pretty BIG project per se)

Now, for that, it may be easier for us to also first have one main sub section, to test the waters, and see how good we can work on translating such stuff. And since these stuff DO take time, it will shouldn't be flooded with new threads. I hope. :sweat:

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Ideally, the translation section of JCN will become something along the structure of:

Translation Section
Jay
- Jay related news translation
- Jay album/song translation

Artiste A
- Artiste A related news translation
- Artiste A album/song translation

Artiste A
- Artiste B related news translation
- Artiste B album/song translation

General Artistes
- news translation (for compound articles, you know one article with Jay, Artiste A AND Artiste B, or any other artistes which may be of interest)
- album/song translations
- other artistes news/song/article translation request

Subbing Subforum
- one subforum dedicated to providing subtitles for TV clips, shows, drama series, you tell me :shifty:


I will need subforum mods to help me keep the subforums organised and tidy. After you read what I hope to achieve in the Translation section, and you think you are up to the challenge, then you can sign up here (http://www.jay-chou.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19896) or PM me if you are too shy to reply to the CALL. :shifty:

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Final Remark:
The structure of the translation subforum is still up for discussion and so nothing is fixed in stone yet.

However, there is ONE thing I must insist on. The quality of the translation MUST be good. No half-past six submission wanted, regardless of the subforum. Although we are greatful for all the efforts to translate articles, but I cannot emphasis the importance of having well-translated articles. Hastily/bad translations of news articles, I think we can find everywhere on the net, but JCN has, over the years, achieved a certain level of credibility in our translations.

So, if we can't maintain the standard, then I rather we just focus on one artiste, and do it good. And if bad submissions are submitted, me and my fellow subforum mods will not hestiate to pull the article out and (if need be) re-translate it. The original member submitting the article will be given due credit for submission in the re-translated article.

We have quite a few veteran translators here who have produced great translations here, and hopefully they will continue to help us maintain our standards. I'm not trying to discourage our newer members from helping out in this section, just be more mindful when submitting your translated works. Personally, I don't think a word-for-word translation consitute a good translation. More importantly, the idea the sentence or the article is trying to convey. Because the article is also written by a person, and he/she may be using colloquial terms that may not convey the true meaning when translated word-for-word.

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I'm sorry for the lengthy post. I tend to be very OCD and anal about translations :rolleyes: and I thought I should voice out the issues I have in mind, so that people will know what to expect in the near future.

Please voice out any issues you think will help make the Translation section more comprehensive and complete. I hope we can bring the standard of translation for Jay stuff across to all the other artistes too. :happy:

-MacDawn

[judes]

yay organization!
the layout for the different artists works, especially when we see that these artists have A LOT of fans and people willing to translate. are we going to start with just a lee hom / jolin news forums since they seem to be the most popular? how are we going to go about deciding which artist info to add?

i'm excited about the "general news" section though, because i hate digging through the multiple layers of ads for those chinese sites that have little information.

[macdawn]

I was going to put down Lee Hom and Jolin, but I just worry people will think that is already fixed. And they get all excited, then I decide I don't want Jolin to be in :brows:

I think after we set the initial 'targetted' artistes, we just keep eye on the other sections, like the Artistes Discussion section, and see how much activity the artiste generate, then we'll consider opening a translation subforum for the artiste. Probably the first TWO non-Jay artiste will keep our translator busy for quite a while... :rolleyes:

-MacDawn

[laruku]

Another suggestion!

Some of your translators might not be really able to search for articles to post. Even so, which are the ones that the others would like to be read? I'd suggest that there is a thread (just a thread nothing more) in each sub-forum that people can post up the original text that they would like to be translated. Your translator can pick that up & take their time to do the translation & then post it. Of course there has to be communication amongst your team to ensure no 2 people take the same one.

[lattae]

I am suggesting a "recruitment test". More like a "translate this". If they pass the mark, then they'll be part of the team. If they don't then too bad. We can change the translate article from time to time, maybe set like a reply with the translate within 24hrs or something like that.

[stitchphil]

A recruitment test? You mean we set out an article for them to translate within a certain time-frame? Hmm... Sounds okay to me.

But I would just like to stick to continuing to translate Jay News as I have been doing, because I usually do this whenever I'm free and I wouldn't want to have the constrains of time on me. I don't think I'll be able to translate effectively with that burden at the back of my mind.

I do want to continue contributing to this team by translating Jay related News, don't wanna stretch myself too thin so much so that I become ineffective.

[CJay]

Count me in for sticking around the Jay News section. I can also expand to Jay's music translation or search for new artists articles as necessary.

[kewlpiggy88]

i'd like to translate some articles! iit'll be good practice to improve my chinese. i can even translate for some other artists. i think there is a pretty big pool or people who can translate jay stuff, so i can help with some other artists like jolin (yes, even her) or leehom. i still might need some help though! google and altavista translations are pretty helpful but in context they can be kind of off. at least it seems that way!

[catseyes]

For translations, can i suggest that when members post an article (that is, start a new thread), it will be at a pending status until the moderator approve it? However i wonder if the poster can still do any editing during the pending status when we have this kind of system. Well, if members can still contribute, that is.

[jay_is_cute]

Another suggestion!

Some of your translators might not be really able to search for articles to post. Even so, which are the ones that the others would like to be read? I'd suggest that there is a thread (just a thread nothing more) in each sub-forum that people can post up the original text that they would like to be translated. Your translator can pick that up & take their time to do the translation & then post it. Of course there has to be communication amongst your team to ensure no 2 people take the same one.

I'm for laruku's suggestion. Most of the time, I'm willing to translate Jay news but I really don't know where to search besides the 1 or 2 news sites I visit, and those don't usually report on Jay much.

Like kewlpiggy, I'm not proficient in Chinese, but I do want practice and it's a nice feeling when people read the things I've translated.

[CJay]

Another suggestion!

Some of your translators might not be really able to search for articles to post. Even so, which are the ones that the others would like to be read? I'd suggest that there is a thread (just a thread nothing more) in each sub-forum that people can post up the original text that they would like to be translated. Your translator can pick that up & take their time to do the translation & then post it. Of course there has to be communication amongst your team to ensure no 2 people take the same one.
I like the suggestion for communicating with the team what you will translate. I sometimes find myself translating things and then finding that it was just posted!

[petricia]

Another suggestion!

Some of your translators might not be really able to search for articles to post. Even so, which are the ones that the others would like to be read? I'd suggest that there is a thread (just a thread nothing more) in each sub-forum that people can post up the original text that they would like to be translated. Your translator can pick that up & take their time to do the translation & then post it. Of course there has to be communication amongst your team to ensure no 2 people take the same one.

I think we are all for laruku's suggestion for this. I ususally just scan through news from google for the word Jay Chou. I don't really take note of other stuff. So it will be better if someone can just request news of certain artists etc. to be translated. Maybe in that case, some translators (if we have enough) can also zero in on other artists besides Jay.

I am fine with translating anything that doesn't need beautiful words to bring out the meaning behind the original article. Hence, I want to volunteer myself for all translations except songs/music. I always believe that I'll ruin the beauty there.

I also agree with lattae (I think it's her) suggestion to have a 'translation test' to maintain a standard of the translation, so that things may not go haywired through translation.

[stitchphil]

I like the suggestion for communicating with the team what you will translate. I sometimes find myself translating things and then finding that it was just posted!

I think that'll definately help! And I know what you mean CJay, many times, I usually translate the article before I login to JCNet, and find it already posted. :oops:

Communication within the team would definately help to ensure that our efforts don't go to waste.

Suggestion: Maybe we can have all the active translators to name out our sources where we find our Jay News and then see how we can take it from there?

I usually get my news from jaycn.com and jay2u.com, I don't usually search for articles from Yahoo News as CJay usually get articles from there, this is to prevent stepping on each other's toes unknowingly and end up translating the same piece of news.

That was for Jay related news.

As for other translations for other artists, I am fine with translating any news article, but not song and lyrics. I've tried that once for JJ Lin's Cao Cao, and I realised that I simply cannot translate lyrics as smoothly as I do so in News. :oops:

[lily]

*puts hand up* I'm interested in helping out!
I'll definitely try out if there's a sort of translation test!

I agree that we should communicate with our team what we'll be translating. I wanted to translate before but whenever I find one article to translate, it's up on JCnet already. Members here are just so efficient :D!

I suggest we gather up a list of the sources we find the news from so that members of the team won't get confused or lost when finding articles.

P.S. I don't think I can handle music translation. Its too hard for me.

[rachelle03]

I used to take articles off Tom.com (http://ent.tom.com), Jaycn, Alfamusic website (www.alfamusic.com.tw) and a... very tabloidal Apple Daily(www.appledaily.com.tw) :sweat:

Another thing is that there might be multiple articles from different sites, but it's on a single (and similar) topic. A lot of communication will be needed here as well. Eg, which is the best news article out of the few sites to choose. So far, I find that ent.tom.com is pretty taboidal but you are able to find other artistes' news (Same goes for sina.com.cn). Alfamusic is very 'official', i.e. they only post the positive articles. It's good, esp. for the period of new album release as they provide some exclusive infos that other sites don't provide. But they are not updated that frequently. Jaycn do provides a decent content of news. Needless to say, Appledaily is very tabloidal and I find that their editor is against Jay. Esp towards his act on anti-paparazzi. :rolleyes:

Hope that helps.

[macdawn]

I see quite a few of you have volunteered to help. But I just need to clarify, do you mean to help translate, or to help me mod the translation forum?

For one thing, we will definitely need a number of committed people, who can produce quality translations. But I will also need a couple of more experienced translators to help me with the management of the subforums.

One thing I can't emphasis enough is, although we are greatful for all your time and effort, we are looking for quality over quantity here. So if there are two piece of news, (Like one on Jay's concert, another one Jay with so-and-so)and you can only do one, do the one which has more information 'value'. I rather have one properly done translation, than have two sloppily done ones. (Besides, Jay's tabloid romances are so yesterday :bigyawn: )

What I sometimes do, to avoid having people translate the same article I was doing, is to post and empty thread with the title of the article I am doing, like a foot in the door kinda thing.

It may help to have a subthread(forum) where people can post the articles they want translated, but that may be a little messy as time passes... Meanwhile, keep the ideas coming, folks! :happy:

-MacDawn

[sesamestreet]

You can count me in for the translation forums.... since I basically log on everyday at uni and home ....even if I don't post that much...


Actually, I had some ideas on how to improve the lyric translation forum some time ago... and is basically based on i-jay.net .... (does anyone still remember that site which has now disappeared?)

I find it also confusing and frustrating that some of the chinese is in traditional and others are simplified....

I know I know :shy: ... I probably get some replies saying this is an English forum... the main point of j-c.net is to provide a portal for J fans who are more proficient in English to facilitate communication.

Some recommendations:
- change it so you can click on whether you want simplified or traditional chinese in addition to the romanised and English translation (or we can have both on the one page)
- also have different colours or even just bold for each separate line of English, chinese and pinyin to facilitate easier reading
- kind of a template/design … there are for some of the albums but not for the more recent ones(eg. 11CP and Fearless) which just link back to the threads … I’m sure some of the members can do great jobs, especially after seeing some really good banners and dp around (maybe a continuation of the 3 skins ? which was proposed by Karen) or we can use the one that Karen has created

Basically, I prefer standardisation of all the lyrics (colour, style) from the “Quick Jay Links”, especially the J ones, so that it looks more benchmarked and professional …like previously, we can have all different people contributing but just that we modify the fonts/style before we put it in the Quick Jay links


Some other ideas (which may/not be adopted)
- if a new template was created… maybe we can include scenes from their respective MV at the bottom of the page or on the side
- when u click on a link maybe a new popup or even a printable/pdf version (for the people who want to print it out)
- actual pinyin (bpmf with 1234) as well as romanisation

It shouldn’t be that hard… since Jay only releases one album and every so often writes for others… and it can be long transitional stage in-between where we gradually phase in everything

Maybe once that gets going we could also do it for the other translation forums….(eg. since I can see that the whole Grandeur de D Major Book has been done by Candy, Lattae and Milc already… it is a possibility to have something like a link from the bio window or even a new link on the top … maybe we can scan the pictures from the book ) or the official Jay messages

Overall, I like the way the J news forums are operating where you can read the piece of news and then view the other opinions and posts just by scrolling down… I don’t think it should change that much… except that CJay, stitchphil and MacDawn why are you guys so efficient? … can’t you leave some for others to translate :rasp: ??…just jking :D …. I think you are doin’ a fine job…


These are just my suggestions which I have wanted to express … apologies :sweat: if you like the current status of things … but just my opinion to improve some part of j-c.net

[stitchphil]

What I sometimes do, to avoid having people translate the same article I was doing, is to post and empty thread with the title of the article I am doing, like a foot in the door kinda thing.

I've thought of that many times before, because it happened to me a number of times, and I'm sure the other translators as well, after I got one article done up, and was about to post it, it was already posted minutes before. :oops: And it's heartache especially when its a super long article.

Are we allowed to post an empty thread to 'book' the article?

do you mean to help translate, or to help me mod the translation forum?

Hmm... a number of us has already volunteered to help moderate the news forum in the recruitment thread, do we need to clarify that here as well? I volunteered to help in moderating the forum, but of course I'll still be translating News too. :happy:


Overall, I like the way the J news forums are operating where you can read the piece of news and then view the other opinions and posts just by scrolling down… I don’t think it should change that much… except that CJay, stitchphil and MacDawn why are you guys so efficient? … can’t you leave some for others to translate :rasp: ??…just jking :D

Efficient? Haha, I never felt that way, I usually take my time around to translate an article instead of rushing through it. If I don't have the time to, I won't translate one for the sake of translating, no point in doing up a terrible translated article. >.<

But I personally feel that the format of the current news shouldn't be changed, it's neat enough for everyone. =)

[petricia]

As for me, I am offering my help to both translating and moderating the forum.

I think that the idea of putting an empty thread in is a good one. At least we won't spend the time translating only to find that someone finished the articles 2 minutes before me. Like Stitch had mentioned, it is often an heartache when that happened.

[EricOng]

I wouldn't hesitate to voice up.
But if you guys want to have some of the news articles about S.H.E, just approach me. I've lots but theres one problem, I cannot translate. I'm an chinese-illeterate though. But I have lots of sources.

[rachelle03]

change it so you can click on whether you want simplified or traditional chinese in addition to the romanised and English translation (or we can have both on the one page)


It can be very tedious for the romanisation/hanyu pinyin. Translating a long article alone can take a long while. Not to mention typing out the hanyu pinyin. Besides, there can be quite a no. of news articles a day, esp. when the service of translating reaches out to other artistes.

As for the trad/simplified chinese, I think most articles are in trad. chinese. If there's difficulty reading the trad. chinese, then the translated article will be of use. That's why we need proper translated articles. ^^

What I sometimes do, to avoid having people translate the same article I was doing, is to post and empty thread with the title of the article I am doing, like a foot in the door kinda thing.
That's a good idea. With a 'coming soon' sign.

[sesamestreet]

It can be very tedious for the romanisation/hanyu pinyin. Translating a long article alone can take a long while. Not to mention typing out the hanyu pinyin. Besides, there can be quite a no. of news articles a day, esp. when the service of translating reaches out to other artistes.
As for the trad/simplified chinese, I think most articles are in trad. chinese. If there's difficulty reading the trad. chinese, then the translated article will be of use. That's why we need proper translated articles. ^^
That's a good idea. With a 'coming soon' sign.

What my recommendations where for the lyrics section only and we can gradually change things... it would be tedious to do pinyin and trad/simplified for every news article :worry: ... and as if the news translators don't have enough to do already......

i just think pinyin sometimes helps to actually ascertain what Jay is singing

The news section can stay as it is now...since its functionality is pretty good....

[stitchphil]

I was just thinking.. Besides getting everyone to give out our various sources we take our Jay news from, how bout we get a a group 'assigned' to the different websites?

Because sites like jaycn tend to have more than one piece of news on Jay each day. And some of their articles show up on yahoo news and jay2u most of the time.

That way, it improves communication a little so to speak. For example, lets say A and B is assigned to jaycn, and there happen to be say 5 articles on Jay that day, so between the two, they can decide who will do which article.

But it'll be better if there's an integreted center when everyone can list out which article they are or will be translating to prevent a double work?

Or perhaps, the moment we find an article we want to translate, within the team, we just post the entire article in chinese in a thread within the team to tell others that you're currently working on the article. And when its translated, release to the main forum.

How bout that? That's just something I suddenly thought of, just wanted to post it here before I forget it. Let me know what you think okay?

[macdawn]

Okay, I think there's something I need to clarify, with regards to the translation forums and translators.

Basically, I will need a few people, like stitchphil, as mods to help me mod the translation forums. But that doesn't mean, all the mods will be doing the translations from now on. :sweat:

Our current format of volunteer translators translating news articles will continue. I will probably prepare a translation test, for those members who would like to contribute on a regular basis to JCN, to test their translation skills.

Those who pass will get a 'Translation badge' to sort of show you are one of our 'officially approved' translators. You will then have the responsibility of helping JCN stay updated with Jay (and artistes section) news updated with the news translations.

People who are new but also want to contribute their translation are free to contribute still :happy:

The translation forum mod will be in-charge of checking the translations regularly, and make any amendments deemed necessary (like what I have been doing).

Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

Translators who would like to be 'recognised' with our very prestigious 'Translation badge', kindly PM me with your interest, and I'll set up the test when I have enough people...

Members who are interested in modding the translation forums also apply to me, but I would give priority to members who are 'senior translators'... This is to maintain the standards expected of JCN.

-MacDawn

[Addendum]
Will appreciate all who are interested in helping out as volunteer translators, to PM me, I need to kick start this translation discussion again.

Thank you.

[stitchphil]

Let get the ball rolling with the first topic shall we?

What do you guys think of our members posting news from another website, which has been previously translated by someone else?

For an example: this is what I mean (http://jay-chou.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20562)

I've received PM from members reflecting to me that this is rather unfair in the sense that the member posting it in this forum is claiming credit for the work done by others, even though we credited the translator in the start of the article. That is the current system we're having now.

Any suggestions to improve it?

I know what it feels to have your article being ripped off by someone else because it happened to me once. I once translated this long-ass article onn Jay for this forum, and days later, I chanced upon another website which posted my translated article and even placed a disclaimer stating that they owned the copyrights to the article (I studied copyright law! I know my rights!! :rant: ). I've never felt so helpless and angry in my life at that moment because I know nothing can be done about it.

Feedback people?

MacDawn: I know I'm not supposed to be here, I'll talk it over with you over MSN about this issue after my exams next week yeah! Thanks! :happy:

[jayx8318x]

What do you guys think of our members posting news from another website, which has been previously translated by someone else?
For an example: this is what I mean (http://jay-chou.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20562)


I don't personally care whether the jcnet member credits themselves for ..basically finding, and taking the time to copy and post the article here. Really the most important thing is they credit their own translations.


I've received PM from members reflecting to me that this is rather unfair in the sense that the member posting it in this forum is claiming credit for the work done by others, even though we credited the translator in the start of the article.

They are NOT claiming credit for the work of doing the translations, that's a false assumption because we always clearly state who the translator and what site they took it from. Personally I've seen some of the places these articles come from, and they are not free of guilt from taking OUR stuff and NOT CREDITING whatsoever.

So much that I had to go there, register my ass at their forum, and throw stuff around, just to get jcnet members the credit they deserve because a MOD - mind you - at said forum(s) posted our news with no credits (coughcoughthesiteinthelinkabovecough). I say leave it the way it is, because 1). Piss them off, if that is their inclination 2). They can't do anything about it because we DO credit them :-) win-win in my book. But then again I'm devious like that.

But whatever you translators decide is fine with me.

If I can have it my way, we would not use Jay (news, lyrics, etc.) translations from other sites AT ALL.

[macdawn]

What do you guys think of our members posting news from another website, which has been previously translated by someone else?
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Any suggestions to improve it?
Let me just state that, I thought the translations from that *coughlinksitecough* was atrocious. I had been tempted to re-post the whole thing again, cos I wanted to re-translate the whole thing to make more sense than the half-assed version whomever had did the first time. The only I reason I didn't want to 'take' the credit from someone else. And so, I re-translated the posted article. It was too painful to read otherwise, and I am just really, really, really anal about lousy translations.

I'd much rather our own people do the translation than to get the crap some are getting from there, and crediting themselves for posting them here. URGH! I mean, our translators are doing a much much greater job here, and I really don't want to see our translation standards pulled down by that *coughabovementionedsitecough*

I had thought I was the only one thinking like that, cos I'm just, you know, 'perfectionist' about translations.... but I'm glad you voiced it out :happy: My radars are already up for lousy translations. :shifty:

MacDawn: I know I'm not supposed to be here, I'll talk it over with you over MSN about this issue after my exams next week yeah! Thanks! :happy:
WHAT the heck are you doing here? Go back and study before I kick your butt all the way to timbaktut. :-x

-MacDawn