Premarital Sex [Archive]

judes

04-28-2006, 07:11 AM

for me i've never had a problem with bodies and never found the body disgusting. the thing i had a problem with was intimacy and being able to be that close and personal with someone.

but i found that while it's easy for you to say "oh i will never have sex before marriage", you'll realize that it's very, very difficult for you to say no to a person you love who wants sex. so i think it's important for you to talk about if you are ever going to have sex before marriage if you're in a serious relationship. if you're upfront about it and not queasy about talking about it, then you won't get into a situation where you make a decision that you will regret for the rest of your life.

xjaychoux: the point that you make about good sex is very important. no sex is better than bad sex. if you marry someone and find out you're not sexually compatible (i.e. your husband wants sex more than you do, he wants you to do certain things you may not be willing to do) then you have a problem since you're married to him.

i used to think that premarital sex was "BAD" because everybody (church, other people) say so, but it's a whole different story when you're in a committed relationship.

even though to girls sex is supposedly more important or they have to be more careful since they'll be branded as a slut or they'll get pregnant, all i can say is that: sex isn't everything. your first time won't be very pretty. it will be awkward in a beautiful way but still awkward. things won't magically fit and you won't find your perfect whole that first time. you have to learn how to have good sex. (now i'm not saying i'm like superb lover fantastico or something, but i learned to lower my expectations of sex very very quickly. so i think every girl should do the same before their high expectations of sex come crashing down)

i don't like girls who bitch and moan about how their first time was terrible and they regret the entire experience. i can understand if you were drunk and you made a bad decision. but you got yourself into the situation. if you thought you "loved" the man and you sleep with him a month into the relationship and he leaves you because all he wanted was sex, and you end up pregnant, maybe you should have thought more carefully about what you were doing. there's probably something wrong if he says "prove you love me by having sex with me" or if you tell him "i won't have sex with you" and he threatens to leave.

girls should protect themselves. go on the pill. buy condoms. don't put yourself in dangerous situations (i know they're not unavoidable, but getting piss drunk and wandering around at 2 am wearing a short skirt in the bar district or around university campus is not a good idea)

i feel like a teacher. *puts on teacher's hat*
but some of this stuff is from personal experence. and i think the more people know the better, instead of throwing around these unrealistic expectations about sex.

DragonPrince

04-28-2006, 07:34 AM

Love does not equal to Sex.

No matter what. I think Premarital Sex is wrong. If guys thinks they can walk away scot-free, think again. What will people think of you if they found out? Will you live guilt free? How will you react if those girls you had sex with decide seek revenge? This is wrong. It definately is.

judes

04-28-2006, 08:00 AM

love does not equal sex.
but sex is one of the ways you can physically express your love.

sex should only happen between two people who are conscious of making the decision to have sex. i mean a girl can be manipulated and tricked into having sex, or she may be forced to become a prostitute due to circumstances, but i see no reason why sex should not happen between two adults before the tying down of "marriage".

once again, what if you find out you're not sexually compatible with your husband? do you want to live in a sexless marriage?

i definitely do not support sleeping around and not the "if it feels good, do it" mentality, but i think once you're responsible, you get tested for STDs, you use protection/birth control, and you talk openly about your relationship, then i don't see why you shouldn't be able to have sex with anybody you want. as long as your expectations of the relationship is made clear from the beginning.

being in love is a risk emotionally. having sex is a risk you take emotionally as well as physically. life is about taking risks and weighing your chances and opportunities.

the problem is not the act of sex itself. it's the irreponsibility and the lack of respect that you owe to yourself and your partner when you choose to have sex for the wrong reasons.

xiaohei88

04-28-2006, 10:20 AM

jaychou_21

04-28-2006, 01:48 PM

While premarital sex is morally wrong, it is a matter of TRUST.
Sex does not, cannot and will not equate love. Amen.
It is, however, a form of expression. And it all comes back to LOVE and TRUST.

It's cliche when girls promise to keep their virginity until they get married.
But while it's a big of a deal to the woman, is it the same to the man?
I've yet to hear from a man who's willing to remain virgin until his wedding day.

Judes: Your points are clearly stated. Very well said.
And reading your posts, there was not a single moment I disagreed with you.
I can't agree more. Kudos to the fanatical, rational sex counselor! :clink:

judes

04-28-2006, 11:25 PM

Hm..after reading a few posts... i do agree that premarital sex is wrong... our virginity is our dignity...(i hope i make that sound right).... we cant just let it go that easily... its something that makes us proud of it.. and if were to lose it.. makes sure its with someone who is worth losing for.. and that is with your soulmate.... on the wedding night.. wont it makes it so special?..

you're not talking nonsense. you're talking what a lot of girls believe, and if that is what you feel truly in your heart, then i applaud you. but i also encourage people to think about what their virginity means to them.

i don't believe your virginity as something you "lose" but as something you "give". your first time should be with a guy who understands what a gift you're giving to him and regardless of whether it is his first time as well, he should appreciate what you two shared. which is supported by the next point:

It's cliche when girls promise to keep their virginity until they get married.
But while it's a big of a deal to the woman, is it the same to the man?
I've yet to hear from a man who's willing to remain virgin until his wedding day.

i've only heard serious christian boys who believe in saving themselves until their wedding night, but these are probably the boys who were brought up to think that sex is wrong and dirty and should only be used for procreation.

it brings up a question of, would you rather have a partner who is more experienced than you when it comes to sex so you will be the one learning, or would you rather teach your partner about sex?

i don't like the double standard of girls saving themselves for their wedding night and for boys to be able to sleep with as many girls as they want for a higher social status. so that is why i don't think girls should see their virginity as a sacred ideal. it certainly won't give you bonus points for anything in life. but once again, what i'm saying is from personal experience and everybody else needs to live their own life. but there are a lot of things i wish i knew or that someone would say to me before i entered a relationship.

Kudos to the fanatical, rational sex counselor!

:P rah rah.

Mika:.

04-30-2006, 01:45 PM

All I have to say is that everyone has different interpretations and values of their virginity. If we all believe we're doing the right thing for ourselves, it's all good. I'm just annoyed by people who try to impose their beliefs on others in a condescending way, or extremely close-minded, prejudiced people.

chinook

04-30-2006, 02:26 PM

Mika:.

04-30-2006, 02:36 PM

I think pre-maritial sex is kinda like a moral issue, coz everyone has their own beliefs and morals. For me, I believe in abstaining from sex until after marriage. My boyfriend of 3 years+ doesn't really share the same views as I do, but he respects my decision and we're happy. :)
You should be proud! He must love you to bits. :happy:

I think my boyfriend is only too happy that I'm not a sex-after-marriage person, lol.

chinook

04-30-2006, 02:44 PM

You should be proud! He must love you to bits. :happy:
I think my boyfriend is only too happy that I'm not a sex-after-marriage person, lol.

Yeah, I really do feel that way. :D

I don't try to impose my beliefs on my friends though. I find it pretty interesting when they share their stories with me, it's good preparation! :brows:

skueshy_noodle

04-30-2006, 03:06 PM

i think premarital sex is wrong too. but it seems that nowadays teenagers cannot be patient enough to wait until they get married to the person they really love..then have healthy sex..not saying that premarital sex is unhealthy.. it's just that you get more freedom with sex when you get married with your partner right... then you can have the world to yourselves.. =P better to be safe than sorry.. so i say NO to premarital

xiaohei88

05-02-2006, 10:16 AM

msv

05-02-2006, 10:04 PM

Girls.. you have to bear in mind that guys.. no matter what.. they still prefer to have a wife who is pure...
Then maybe a girl should rethink about marrying a guy who has certain requirements for being "pure". Here's the thing about sex: you don't have to have sex to remain "untouched" nowadays. I think we've all sinned at least once in our life if you base purity on physical issues.
think twice about how you're giving it away.. give it away with someone who you love.... the right one..
I totally agree with that. However, the love of your life at this moment may not be the "right one" 10 years from now. Not every relationship works out.

But, clarify me if I'm wrong here, but the main message I seem to get is that girls specifically should restrain from having sex until marriage because by not doing so, they're risking their "dignity" and its their "trump card"? If a man you're marrying is more concerned about your "trump card" than who you are and were (and can't accept that fact), then you should seriously rethink your relationship.

Though I hear the cheers for men who share this sex-after-marriage belief, how can you base the majority of your argument on a double standard? Some girls can just have sex and walk away as easily as any man can, yet she's labeled as easy?

I'm not criticizing your beliefs or anything because my family's extremely conservative and I was brought up with this idea (and still am), but I don't think its necessarily "wrong" to have sex before marriage. If you're at the stage of having sex, you should be mature enough to realize the consequences of your action and take responsibility for it. And losing your virginity before marriage is not the same thing as losing your dignity.

Mika:.

05-03-2006, 12:11 AM

I hope this message not only goes out to the girls.. but to the other sex too.. please bear in mind that our virginity is something that is priceless.. it cant be compared to anything.. it is our dignity..again i like to stress on that.. so.. please .. think twice about how you're giving it away.. give it away with someone who you love.... the right one..
I absolutely agree that it isn't something to be taken lightly. However, the right person or the right time doesn't necessarily have to be after marriage. If you believe that you're giving it to someone you love and trust, your first time would be meaningful. The sex-after-marriage concept is just another way of saying "your one true love is your first husband". This is just not realistic anymore because of such high divorce rates - and you can't be pure on every wedding night. :rolleyes:

Besides, most people fall in love more than once in their lives.
Girls.. you have to bear in mind that guys.. no matter what.. they still prefer to have a wife who is pure.. and don't give easily to whoever said that he loves you with all his heart... instead.. who said.. take you as my wedded wife......for poorer or richer...in sickness and in health.. and til death do us part...
If guys who want a virgin wife are virgins themselves, then that's great. But guys who sex up random chicks until they get married, and then expect their wife to have never been touched... go die.

And keep in mind that marriage is no longer a soul-binding, forever-loving system. You can be conned into having sex with a sweet-talker, but what's worse, you can also be conned into marrying a gold-digger.
To guys.. who are willing to wait to have sex after marriage.. i salute you dudes.. its good to know that there are guys who respect us women!!!:-)
I'm also impressed by these guys who have the balls to tell this to their friends.

princess`bobo

05-03-2006, 01:32 AM

lol yes i've recently met a guy who is a 21 year old virgin and doesnt believe in sex before marriage.....

its because he is a devout christian and so is one of my friends who is a 20 year old girl virgin...though shes a bit iffy because she has done everything except that.....

i agree with Mika...if a guy excepts his wife to be pure then he oughta be pure himself otherwise its just a double standard!!!

and yes, while a girl's virginity is something special and shouldn't be given away lightly...bear in mind there are some of us who did not choose to give it away......

i reckon sex before marriage is fine! i mean....u gotta try before u buy

xiaohei88

05-03-2006, 02:20 AM

I thank to both who agrees with me disagrees with me.. everybody has their own opinion about this premarital sex..and im glad that everyone is aware of this situation that is happening everyday..

I will not discriminate people who has premarital sex... cause i believe that we all are mature enough to take full responsibilities for our own action and know whats the outcome...

Thnks Mika:. & msv for your thoughts on that...

judes

05-03-2006, 04:20 AM

i think it's ridiculous for girls to think of themselves as virgins even though they've done everything but up to the actual point of losing their virginity. if any girl who i know has fooled around comes up to me and talked to me about "leaving myself pure" or "saving myself for my husband" i'll hand her a great big bitch slap and tell her to tell it to someone who gives a damn.

you can only talk about purity if you've abstained from all kinds of sexual touching. to me, a hug can be sexual, kisses on the hand can be sexual. of course i'm not talking about extremes of how you are only pure if you've never touched a man, but if you've made out, if you've participated in oral sex, everything short of him putting it in you, then you have no moral high ground to stand on.

i'm glad there are girls who respect the idea of sex as something that isn't meant to be done with any guy. and i like that girls are willing to wait until after marriage if that's a right choice for you. because i always tell myself: there is a chance of me getting pregnant while i'm on the pill / patch / whatever, there is a chance (like it happened with a friend of mine) that the person will lie about not having an STD. so if i don't see myself as potentially having children with this man, then why would i bother having sex with him?

i don't think the question of having sex before or after marriage is a question of morals or of "right vs wrong". once again, it's a matter of responsibility. if you think you're prepared to deal with the possibilities of having children or getting an STD, then by all means, have sex. but don't have one night stands and then complain that you have to have another abortion, or go off the pill because it will make you fat and come crying to me that you are pregnant.

once again, like msv said, if a guy says that he can't date me / marry me / go out with me because i am "not pure" since i've slept with someone, but he's been around the block and back, i'll laugh in his face and tell him to find some other dumbass to trick into participating in his game of morality. you can only ask your fiancee to be a virgin if you're a virgin yourself.

This is just not realistic anymore because of such high divorce rates - and you can't be pure on every wedding night.

ahaha i completely agree. although i don't think that high divorce rates should bar people from falling in love with devotion and the belief that you are able to spend the rest of your life together, you should also understand that marriage is something to last a lifetime and that if you do get married, it's not to shop around until you find the right husband but it's to find someone to raise children and build a home with. it seems contradictory that i have such traditional beliefs when it comes to marriage but supposedly "modern" beliefs when it comes to sex, but i stand by my beliefs because i want to be sure this man is the right man i want to invest my future in. i've always said that dating someone isn't the same as being friends with them, and i also know that living with someone is a completely different story from dating them. so while living with someone may dull the passion and the fire of your relationship, at least you will see whether this man has any bad habits that may drive you crazy ten years down the road. because a man in his bachelor state isn't going to change his ways once he marries you.

i didn't really want to say "you gotta try before you buy" but i guess someone else already said it for me. i don't see "partner finding" as a shopping trip but as a rather expensive investment of my time energy and money. if he's not worth devoting 100% of your emotions to, then why bother?

cacky

05-03-2006, 07:57 AM

Mika:.

05-03-2006, 09:43 AM

Well said, Cacky.

It seems those with traditional views on sex and those with modern views are pretty much balanced. But with the way the world's developing, the former will probably keep decreasing to a small minority.

Anyhow, you can't put a right or wrong to beliefs, and it's natural for people to have different opinions about everything. In the end, everyone does (or tries to do) what they believe is best for themsevles, be it different sexual partners every night, saving their virginity for their first love, or saving it for their wedding night. What works for you might not work for someone else.

I think this issue shouldn't come between two people in a relationship. We each have our own beliefs, but it's important to respect others' too. Then there's another double standard - people who abstain from sex until marriage complain that their non-virgin partners don't respect their beliefs. But what about their partner's belief that their virginity should be something that they give away whenever they're ready?

(Of course, if your partner was a whore ... or man-whore, that's a different story. But someone who lost their virginity, pre-marriage, to someone they loved shouldn't be labelled "dirty".)

Oh and I agree that once you touch someone "there" - with any part of your body, you're not really "pure" anymore. :rolleyes:

Darkness

05-03-2006, 09:52 PM

What about the persons that never want to get married? Does that mean that you will never have sex even with a person that you really love? (you can tell me "if you really love that person, why don't you get married?" but for instance, your parents are divorced, you don't want to experience that. Could be any reason.)
Does that mean that you HAVE to get married in order to have sex?
(sorry if that's been said, followed that thread, but don't remember everything ^^")

judes

05-04-2006, 02:36 AM

cacky: you're right. not all religions/churches/denominations teach the idea that sex is dirty. yes, sex can be for procreation, and to some people, that is its ultimate purpose and biologically speaking, you are 100% right. but factoring in feelings and emotions that come from these biological urges, sex is pleasurable and if you are with someone who gives you pleasure, then psychologically you grow to have an 'addiction' to that person, which will prolong your relationship. (and is one of the reasons scientists believe that will contribute to the growth and passing of genetic material to our offspring.) except when you also include cultural ideas about sex, about relationships, then sex is a lot more complicated than just "procreation". physically, mentally, emotionally, and perhaps even spiritually, sex means that much more than just the production of a baby. (which i know you do believe considering i doubt many people think of sex as JUST for procreation, but it's a good point that you bring up)

i admire people who can keep to their convictions and say that they are saving themselves for the person they will marry and who will be the father/mother of their children. what i DON'T agree with is the catholic church condemning birth control because sex was meant for procreation. if you see the rate of AIDS spreading through africa, if you see the many abandoned babies and the orphaned children, the exploding populations in the slums. although this may not be all accounted for because of the position of the catholic church on birth control, but with catholics accounting for such a huge amount of the population, you BET that it's because of the idea of sex as procreation that is a factor in causing these negative effects.

But I just have one question in my mind. Is making love really important to express love to your other party before marriage?

to tell you the truth, yes. i'm a very physical person and to express my love for someone, sex is one of those ways. it's a way to see a person without defense, and it takes a great deal of trust in a relationship for me (i can't speak for anybody else) to do it. i'm very weary of people and i'm afraid of intimacy so yes, to show that i'm comfortable with the person, that i trust them, sex is that way of expression. and i don't want to be in a relationship where i find out AFTER i'm married to them that the person hates sex / doesn't like the physical aspect of a relationship. because it's all good and nice to think that you can turn off your sexual desires or that you can have a marriage that is purely emotional, but it's not as simple as that.

Coz' marriage emcompasses not just love but responsibility and commitment. And that's when you are at the stage whereby you are ready for sex and its consequences (having children).

but i do agree that children is a very serious consequence that you should always always talk about with your partner before having sex at whatever stage in your relationship. you two have to be in complete agreement about what's going to happen (abortion, adoption, keeping the baby...etc). and i mean complete agreement, if you disagree, then you are not ready to have sex.

people who abstain from sex until marriage complain that their non-virgin partners don't respect their beliefs. But what about their partner's belief that their virginity should be something that they give away whenever they're ready?

mika: exactly. this i agree with. nobody should look down on the person who chooses to have sex before they are married. it doesn't make you better than everyone else if you remain a virgin until after your wedding. it shows that you have amazing self control, but you can't say that your partner doesn't respect you if he/she doesn't want to wait. of course if he/she tries to tear your clothes off or force you to do something you don't want to do, that's another story.

What about the persons that never want to get married? Does that mean that you will never have sex even with a person that you really love? (you can tell me "if you really love that person, why don't you get married?" but for instance, your parents are divorced, you don't want to experience that. Could be any reason.)

darkness: a very good question. i know many people who don't want to get married because of the reason that you stated. marriage isn't for everybody. some people have problems with commitment, others don't want to be forced into a traditional and outdated idea, some people can never get married in a country (cultural differences, homosexuality, family does not approve, etc), some women see marriage as a way to entrap women. so there are many reasons why someone would not want to get married, and having sex before marriage for them makes sense in whatever relationship they're in because they want to share that part of themselves with their partner without having to have a piece of paper legalizing it.

sorry this is so long. and i started off only wanting to answer darkness' question. wow. i'll probably disappear from this thread sometime soon. said pretty much everything i want to say on the subject.

cacky

05-05-2006, 07:27 AM

No no Judes, you're not talking that much. In fact, like what this topic thread is in, it's the Current Issues & Debates, feel free to air out whatever you have in mind. And I enjoy reading your insights :-) coz' no one person is alike, thus no one person can ever be right.

Everyone has their own fair share of opinions. I also believe that this topic thread helps to share some insights to how people from different parts of the world regard pre-marital sex and for all you know, there are some confused people out there right now wondering if they should take that step and reading what we've posted here to gather some views, eh?

bebyjaystaa

05-05-2006, 09:59 PM

Okay ... I just have this point to make which might not be the main point but to correct some thinking here. The Church does not teach its believers that pre-marital sex is dirty or a horrible thing! At least not from where I come from.
Rather, sexual intercourse is for the purpose of pro-creation and that should something positive. Our sexual organs are gifts from God and in God's eyes, should be used for pro-creation. Pro-creation is a good thing because they are God's gift to you.
So, don't think that people who are saving their viriginity for their religions is a bad thing or just being a prude because they merely respect their faith and keep to it. They know ultimately that a relationship is not about sex.
So, yes, there are schools of thoughts such as viewing it as 'making love'. And that if you feel comfortable in the relationship and are ready to express your love for the other party through making love, it is perfectly normal.
But I just have one question in my mind. Is making love really important to express love to your other party before marriage?
Surely there are other ways right? I mean, in life, we go through stages. In my opinion, pre-marriage is just not the stage for having sex.
Coz' marriage emcompasses not just love but responsibility and commitment. And that's when you are at the stage whereby you are ready for sex and its consequences (having children). Though, yes, you can say you are ready for sex prior to marriage but how sure can you be of your other half?
He/She can be saying a lot but ultimately, are you them? Can you guarantee that he/she will never leave you if 'casualties' do happen? No ... truth be told, there are no guarantees in life.
As someone said in here, love is a risk that you have to take emotionally and sex is a risk you have to take physically. It's not about trump cards for girls or that sex is dirty but about knowing why. Think about it, my dear friends ... ...

yea i agree with this. i've been a christian ever since i was born. and there was never a church that told me that pre-marital sex is a bad and really dirty thing or whatever. because we believe that God gave us this gift to cherish with our husband/wife that we keep our virginity clean yekno ? i sound like a total christian freak. but i gotta say..i'm actually not very close to God. even though i'm a pastor's daughter. i don't pray everyday..read the bible. but i actually do respect this small "promise". i dont know.

not only because i'm christian i dont believe in sex before marriage. i just think that seriously guys dont respect us girls anymore. in class...the guys in our class just loveee looking at porn and crap. it's like they don't respect us and care about our feelings..just our bodies. i mean ...wtf? :crazy: but yea...sex before marriage can cause alot of "problems" later. like getting pregnant. of course the guy could get it off easy because they could just walk away if they want. but yea...it can change your life. i just finished reading a book "dancing naked" and even though it's not real...it's true. the girl gets pregnant and goes through the whole thing rather than abortion. she ends up giving up the baby and putting the baby up for adoption. anyways..i'm rambling. to make it short..i dont believe in it..but everyone's opinions are different. but in this thread..you guys make it sound like christians are freaks who just ...ierno. like its really really wrong and stuff. but yea..itsall good :happy:

judes

05-07-2006, 09:27 PM

^
i didn't quite understand what you meant.
i don't think that people who posted in this thread believe that christians are freaks, considering they account for a large percent of the world's population. it's not only christians that do not believe in sex before marriage. a lot of asian cultures or traditional, conservative families, believe that sex should not occur before marriage.

but it would be silly for me personally to bash christians because i used to be a christian. i used to believe in the idea of no sex before marriage and saving myself for someone i marry. but now i believe in different things for different reasons that i never understood until i was actually in a relationship.

i am particularily bothered by the idea that while it is pure and right for a girl to save herself for a boy before marriage, when a guy is a virgin until he is married, most of us would laugh at him and a few would respect him but think it is unrealistic. so i don't understand why boys are free to look at porn, to sleep with many women, to be pressured to be an experienced and good lover, while a girl is expected to be innocent and virginal.

i see bodies as neutral things. boys who look at porn do not necessarily think of the female body as something degrading. a picture of a penis does not have to be anything sexual, same with a picture of the vagina. but that's another debate altogether.

sagara0510

05-09-2006, 02:41 AM

perhaps we do have bigger problems but this is a debate about premarital sex and every1 here is entitled to their opinion as long as they are willing to discuss and justify they're views.

judes

05-09-2006, 04:01 AM

i would think that girls who are getting pregnant or getting stds because they engaged in premarital would think it's a pretty damn big problem. same with boys who get stds or get a girl pregnant because of premarital sex. or all the babies that are born without parents.

so like jase said. it's debatable.
just because there's no clear solution doesn't mean something is not worth talking about.

KendoTiger

05-09-2006, 08:19 PM

Hm, but making love does add to a relationship. Physical attraction is necessary in a relationship, merely if it is because we still retain the archaic desire to find the best mate possible for reproduction. More than that, making love increases the closeness of a couple by creating both complete acceptance, but also an activity that only holds significance when it is between the two lovers.

Well, I believe that making love is different from sex. Making love is an expression of how much you care for someone, where sex is just to reach the euphoria of masturbation. I don't mind one night stands - that's their business, but I would prefer love.

Honestly, saving yourself for marriage is unrealistic - whether you're a man or woman.

judes

05-11-2006, 04:12 AM

^ just like you wouldn't really get to know someone you like unless you date them, you wouldn't really know someone you love unless you make love with them. whether it's before or after marriage, i don't think it's unrealistic if both partners agree, but if one partner disagrees, then they have to reach a compromise that doesn't end up with hurt feelings.

i would say that sex is different from masturbation though.
even without the aspect of love.
or else we would all be wanking all day long without having to put in the effort to find new partners.

Eugene

05-14-2006, 07:55 AM

I think that a girl's virginity is very very precious and shouldn't be loss during premarital sex meaning that I don't think it's quite right to have sex before getting married .
If a guy truly and really loves you , sex is nothing .
I hope gals out there think twice before indulging in premarital sex .

PHATVW

05-17-2006, 08:56 AM

not being rude or anything, but just because the church tell u premarital sex is wrong doesnt mean that it is wrong, its all up to ur own personal choice

if ur deeply in love with someone and that they feel the same way, then i dont see any reason of why not.

i understand the fact that its a lot harder for da girl (especially if she a virgin), but i mean i wouldnt just go and have sex with someone if i wasnt in love with her (some guys might have an different opinion to this, but this is just mine).

if u were just wondering about this, i think u and ur partner should at least talk about it before any touchy feely happens, dat should prepare both of u the emotional side of the relationship. dont give in to any pressure, think about it thoroughly, u dont want to regret it (especially if it was ur first time), oh and protection is also important unless u want a baby

but at the end its ur choice, remember ur da only one who has to live up to da consequences. so its all up to u

Rurouni[X]

05-24-2006, 09:00 AM

Premarital Sex..
Straigtforward..
I dont think its Wrong. Sex is not dirty.. Its natural in all of us..
PreMarital sex is the same as PreMarital Kissing. Sex is only one way to express your love for someone.
The Church teaches taht it is wrong. But it isnt really.
My parents dont think its wrong either. Its a really really strong sign of affection.
If you think someone att he Moment is perfect for you. You guyz get along really well and think about each other all the time. You want to take the Relationship up a step. i think that Sex is a great way to convey your feelings. Instead of Words.. Actions..
It may be hharmful and sometimes bad. In cases of Teenage Pregnancy's and Abortions.. Also in cases of bad STD's. For those that dont know what a STD is. Its a Sexually Trasnmitted Disease.. Like Genital Herpes and Aids.
In major cases it can be life threatening.
I think protection and in some cases Pills are needed for Premarittal sex. Although i dont think its wrong i think warning and caution is needed
oO
^^"
haha.. this is a good thread by the way

cacky

05-24-2006, 10:47 AM

']PreMarital sex is the same as PreMarital Kissing.

Whoa whoa whoa!! Hang on there!!! Pre-Marital Sex and Pre-Marital Kissing ain't the same!!!

Please do not mislead the rest in thinking that they're the same. The consequences to bear from Pre-Marital Sex are different from Pre-Marital Kissing ...

xiaohei88

05-24-2006, 02:03 PM

Yes sex is not wrong.. its human and its natural.. but having sex with people whoever they wants?.. is that not wrong?.. you are not certain that this person who loves you and you're willingly to give yourself up?.. how cheap is that?.. im sorry if i offended you... i may be 17.. part of the 'hip' youngsters but still.. having pre marital sex is wrong..

you know why its wrong?.. lets take a couple of today's generation for example.. both of them are not married and still studying in either high schools or polytechnic..and they had sex.. the girl gets pregnant..

usually or generally.. what do the boys do?.. they dont want to take responsible for anything at all.. they flee from the picture.. leaving an undergraduate with a baby in her body.. what can she do?.. is she emotionally stabled?.. is she financially stabled?.. no.. she is lost.. she is deserted by the one who claims that he loves her.. but where is he?.. she is not ready yet.. and she regrets it!what does she do next.. abortion?.. it is good as placing the baby at a rubbish dump.. whatever the mother does.. it is still killing the baby.. think before you act..

so.. you guys might say.. the father takes responsibility.. are they really ready to start a family?.. are they financially secured?.. will they be happy giving up their educational life when they are not prepared for it?... if not then what aborton?

Abortion?.. people.. its the same as muderring!.. what else.. you're killing your own felsh and blood?.. Are you human?..

yes cacky.. you're rght..

So sex is not wrong Rurouni[X] ?.. okay?.. what does your virginity worth to you?..i dont need no holy man or religious people to preach me.. i still strongly agree that pre marital sex is wrong.. I think girls we are worth something.. an we are not that cheap to give in to someone who just takes advantage with the 3 words.. he does not loves you until he sign that papers and marry you...
so he may not be the rigt guy and ask for divorce..at least you know you're wort it.. you are what is worth waiting for..

judes

05-24-2006, 11:19 PM

^ i don't believe that having sex with whoever you want is wrong.
if sex is human and natural, then why do you have to limit yourself to having sex only within the restraints of marriage? it's a cultural thing and what is right in this culture may not be accepted in another.

but then i believe that "sex" is different from having children. it is the process of sex that creates children, but actually having kids is a different story. so that is why to a certain extent, premarital sex is the same as premarital kissing...ONLY if you take the precautions to make sure that children do not ensue.

that is a good question "what does your virginity mean to you?"
no one has the right to point fingers and say "premarital sex is wrong" because "the father will not take responsibility and the girl is left with a baby".

when will girls stop blaming boys for "using them" and for them "giving in"? it takes TWO people to make a baby, not one. and it only takes ONE person to use birth control to have an almost 99% rate of protection. i don't understand why the man is blamed when it is also the girl's responsibility to take care of themselves.

seriously, if someone tells me that premarital sex is wrong because the father won't take responsibility for the child, i will shake them. it is your own fault for getting pregnant in the first place. if you did use birth control and got pregnant, that is another story, but if you didn't use birth control, then it is your own damn fault. and i am also sick of hearing girls who go off birth control to get pregnant so that the guy she is with will settle down with her and marry her. ridiculous! just because he signs a piece of paper doesn't mean that he loves you. love is shown with time, where two people can grow together and become good friends and lovers. a piece of paper means nothing. i can rip up a piece of paper but it doesn't mean that i don't love my husband/boyfriend.

yes girls are worth something, yes girls are great, but yes girls shouldn't be stupid and think that they can't get pregnant if they have sex and yes girls shouldn't be misinformed into thinking that your virginity is a sacred thing that you will regret losing to the wrong person. a good guy will not care if you are not a virgin or if you've slept with twenty people before him.

i take back my comment that your virginity should be thought of as given and not lost. i think that each sexual experience with someone that is meaningful is an exchange. whether meaningful to you is one night stand or with someone in a long term relationship, your virginity is NOT lost and NOT given to someone. just because you have sex for the first time with someone does not mean that he can have your body and your heart and your soul.

your first time is a learning experience. have it with someone you trust and want to share it with. it will be clumsy and awkward, but it will be fun as well. don't see it as the end all be all where if you give your virginity to someone he can get everything else you have. see it as an exchange between equals. the boy is baring himself to you as well. respect that. don't think you're the better person just because you're a girl and you can bear children.

edit: ooh i sound pissed off in this. i actually am not. it's just it irks me when people talk about it as if it's the guy's fault that the girl got pregnant. once again, you need both sperm and egg, not just sperm. i am not a mean person. really.

KendoTiger

05-27-2006, 10:16 AM

Abortion?.. people.. its the same as muderring!.. what else.. you're killing your own felsh and blood?.. Are you human?..
yes cacky.. you're rght..

an we are not that cheap to give in to someone who just takes advantage with the 3 words.. he does not loves you until he sign that papers and marry you...

Okay, first of all - this isn't the abortion debate. The is about premarital sex, not pregnancy. If you practice safe sex, it complete goes around the topic of abortion - so please do not try to change the topic.

Secondly (I didn't quote this part), as a guy, I agree completely with Judes regarding "responsibility" - although personally, I would give up everything to support the woman I love and my child. I think that pregnancy is an issue best discussed between a couple before sex (because there is always that 1% chance).

Anyways, back to topic.

Saying that love cannot exist without a written piece of paper is ludacris. What about those "churches" in Vegas - where you can get married in minutes? Since when has marriage proved love? In America - the divorce rate is about 1/2 of all marriages! Love can exist without marriage, just as marriage can exist without love. I understand that you say it's important that you wait before making love - but that is different from saying marriage has to be involved.

There are people who take advantage of "I love you" - both women and men - but that doesn't taint every person in the world. As long as you both love each other, then I think it's ridiculous to marry before you can express that love. It is true that people fall in and out of love - but it is no different from people who marry and divorce.

And what happens if you do wait until marriage - and then end up getting divorced later? That just proves that it wasn't true love - and you "sold" yourself anyways. Basically, waiting doesn't do anything other than lock you in to a person who might have terrible traits that end up hurting you. What if they have bad credit? Now yours is gone too. What about if they're a pervert - or just are terrible in bed?

As long as you hold out for someone you care for, expressing your love is fine - but making it dependent on marriage just doesn't make sense.

Judes - yes, sex is better than masturbation, but it is close enough that I think they should be put together. Sex can be completely emotionless (one night stands), etc - in which case it is just a "stronger" form of masturbation.

[edit]
Of course Judes is mean - look what she's doing to that poor cat!
Keke, j/k ~ we all love her (the cat)
:p

ene

05-27-2006, 10:36 AM

Kendo Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Marriage/getting married does NOT equate to having the "license" to do everything that you couldn't do when you were single - having sex, moving out on your own, etc. It is more than that !! Sheeeeesh ! No wonder we have so many Singaporeans who get married for all the blooody wrong reasons.

You don't always marry the one you sleep with. You agree to marry and spend THE REST OF YOUR LIFE with someone whom you love and whom loves you back.

That's why you have people who get married after getting pregnant. And then xx years down the road, the guy is out having an affair, the wife gets heartbroken and it all ends in divorce. Who is the innocent one here ? The child.

And what makes everyone think that it's just the girls who think pre-marital sex is wrong ? And what makes you think that it's the girls on "the losing end" ?

We are living in 2006. I believe that there is really no wrong or right to this answer. As well pointed out by judes on page 1 of this thread, it really boils down to your beliefs, your background, etc. No one can tell you if it's right or wrong. YOU make your own decision.

Personally, it's not even a gender thing. I know of girl friends who have no qualms about sleeping with a random guy because she wants to have sex. Period. Nothing to do with love. It is a pure physical lust thing.

Same goes for guys.

But I'm not refutting the fact that based on how girls are "engineered"/made, girls GENERALLY are in the losing end because if anything goes wrong, they'd be the one ending up pregnant. Guys can simply walk away.

Again, it's important that teenagers don't grow up with this wonderful fairy-tale idea about sex and love. Through the years, you will grow up realising that as much as you were against pre-marital sex when you were 16, your thoughts/thinking will change when you're 26.

Last but not least, there ARE a lot of pre-marital sex happening out there. More than what people like to think. It's just that for Asian countries where it is considered "wrong", no one likes to talk about it. Everyone pretends it doesn't happen. In this age and time, my observation is, it is rare for a girl to be labelled as a slut/whore if she sleeps around before marriage.

My question is : Boys who sleep around are cool. Girls who sleep around are sluts/whores. Why that discrimination ? Sheesh.

wanie_jay

05-27-2006, 05:25 PM

My question is : Boys who sleep around are cool. Girls who sleep around are sluts/whores. Why that discrimination ? Sheesh.

i couldn't agree more. guys who sleep around is considered as a true man, but for girls, they wouldn't be received the same title, mainly because, it's just the way we were tought by our parents.

boys were brought up in a condition where they were considered as a leader, so, anything that they do is right. when the guy got his girl pregnant, his family would go around and called her slut. but, the guy, he was considered as a hero..

i guess, somehow gender equality should apply on this matter, because it takes two to have sex.

judes

05-28-2006, 03:19 AM

if you're easily offended i get a little crude in this post.
you're warned.

^ this is an idea that has to be changed. girls shouldn't think of sex as giving themselves to a boy and boys shouldn't think of it as taking something from a girl. i hope one day that a person's virginity isn't seen as this amazingly special thing. i hope they see sex as a learning experience for your own body and the body of your lover's instead of something beyond the two of you. because it really isn't. it could be a form of communication and trust between two people or it could be simplified down to the basic desire for pleasure and to fulfill your sex drive.

KendoTiger: yeah pregnancy should be discussed between the couple. but sometimes, like in the case of one night stands, it can't really be discussed. i can't help but think of this episode of desperate housewives where the girl decides to have the baby WITHOUT TELLING THE GUY and then the guy, 11 years later, has to pay child support even though he had no idea this happened. so guys should be careful they're not sleeping with a psycho bitch who may later try to extort money from you.

which is why when i choose my partners i would think: there is the possibility of having a child. do i really want a child with this man? can i afford an abortion? do i feel comfortable talking to him about abortions? but to me sex is more than fulfilling my sex drive. if i need to fulfill my sex drive all i need is a vibrator. it's not the greatest replacement but it does its job.

i'm still a little iffy on the idea of sex as no more than a more complicated way to masturbate : D i don't want to go into too much detail here because this not supposed to be a thread on this topic, but to women, orgasms from masturbation and orgasms from sex feel different. research has been done on this. even freud says there's two different kinds of orgasms. i don't know how it is for men, since i've never bothered reading the research on men. haha. but perhaps due to evolution since women have to be around to take care of children, they are built in different ways than men when it comes to their sex drives so that they can carry on their genes. so my point is, if sex is just masturbation, to simply "come", then why go through the bother of searching out a partner? you can just take care of it by yourself. i think it's a lot more complex, we crave another's touch, the feeling of someone else's skin than we can get from touching ourselves.

Again, it's important that teenagers don't grow up with this wonderful fairy-tale idea about sex and love. Through the years, you will grow up realising that as much as you were against pre-marital sex when you were 16, your thoughts/thinking will change when you're 26.

Ene: makes great points here. you wonder, how many people now who are from "this generation" who are saying no to premarital sex are virgins? if you've never been tempted or offered to have premarital sex, then i don't think you really have any grounds to stand on in this debate. if you have had premarital sex and some freakish terrible thing happens to you and now you're completely against it, i understand because you've had a bad experience (unless it involves you being stupid and not being on birth control or getting drunk in a bad area of town, then i say you pretty much asked for it) that you feel that way and you don't want anybody else to feel that way. OR if you've managed to restrain yourself and save yourself for marriage AND you didn't get divorced after many years, THEN we'll talk. i wouldn't even say from 16 to 26. my opinions and beliefs of sex changed from when i was 17 to when i was 18. within a year's time!

the sex education in asian countries is terrible because it's so taboo.
people stumble around and do sleep around before marriage, but they are less informed than people in north american / european countries. which is why i think it's better to be informed than to be ignorant and to screw up. this is why you have so many instances of girls getting pregnant and then marrying the guy who got them pregnant because both of them feel "responsible" but they don't know anything about what they're doing and then they get divorced. it's a sad, sad thing.

midori

05-28-2006, 03:38 AM

hmm I don't believe in marriage in the first place. My reason for that is it's society that drives to want to be 'recoginized' it just became "proper" not to have sex before marriage.

centuries ago, you had 13-14 year olds brides, and that was the norm. But in today's society, thats not right, is it?

ene

05-28-2006, 04:46 AM

the sex education in asian countries is terrible because it's so taboo.
people stumble around and do sleep around before marriage, but they are less informed than people in north american / european countries. which is why i think it's better to be informed than to be ignorant and to screw up. this is why you have so many instances of girls getting pregnant and then marrying the guy who got them pregnant because both of them feel "responsible" but they don't know anything about what they're doing and then they get divorced. it's a sad, sad thing.

Exactly ! Which is why it really pisses me off when I read in the local media (I'm in Singapore, btw) where they print letters from parents being UPSET that their children are being taught about sex in secondary school (13-16 yr olds).

Like hello !? As much as you want to think that your little angel darling is as pure as the first drop of rain that fell outside your window, the truth is probably further than you think.

The media went out and interviewed teenagers and a majority talked about how they have had sex in the stairways of flats, in the park, at home when no one is around, etc.

Sweeping the whole "our kids do not do premarital seX!" thing under the carpet will just lead to more unwanted pregnancies and quickie marriages that HAS A HIGH CHANCE of ending in a divorce.

liliceprincess

05-28-2006, 05:48 AM

hmm i think premarital sex is not wrong but then again its not something that should happen like as a habit or hobby :-x But i feel like its not truly wrong as to what can truly happen i mean in this world there is like rape and all..and truly i find it that if its your decision and you do its fine.but then it shouldnt be like pressured from anyone else

In addition, truly kids these days know about sex a lot faster than even my age but its like everyone knows and all. I find it right that they had taught sex in school and all i mean they probably already know even without beint taught.

Yes, there are some teens that dont know about sex and all, but truly out of how many? i can tell you that even in some elementary schools there is like boyfriend and girlfriends and even first kisses >< i mean i jus had mine this year..and to hear from my lil sis wha goes on at school its a lil disturbing
So i dont find it wrong if those kinds of information were taught. I mean as long as they encourage not to do it at a young age.

mmm for the question on the first page..i would have to say its not wrong but at the same time i dont want to think it like exceeedingly happeneing a lot. I mean truly marriage and sex there is usually sex before marriage nowadays..i mean even teenagers now get pregnant and have sex, but its at times their decision and its their own action that they made.

I think in the end, premarital sex will always be there and it will happen no matter what because as time goes by,. the kids have gotten to know what sex by friends and just people that there is a younger age that knows. And from that fact i think ther more younger they get to know, the more sex will be known to be before premaritial sex. But knowing at a young age is soo bad >< to corrupt a young child.

dianilla

08-12-2006, 02:48 AM

^
but it would be silly for me personally to bash christians because i used to be a christian. i used to believe in the idea of no sex before marriage and saving myself for someone i marry. but now i believe in different things for different reasons that i never understood until i was actually in a relationship.
I must say I agree with you 100%. Your thoughts/beliefs about sex may change once you're in a relationship.
I don't think premarital sex is wrong when you are mature to take responsibilities and consequences of your act.

keikai

08-12-2006, 08:56 AM

Lol my opinion on this matter is quite simple actually. I know that there has been quite alot of debates on issues like this, some say its wrong because of reasons pretty similiar to yours, some say its alright as long as both parties are willing and they know what they're doing.
For me, I never like to judge how others are taking their relationships. Sure I do talk about it(aka discuss or gossip if you want to put it that way lol) with my friends but there's no 'right or wrong' about their relationship.
This applies to lesbians and gays or dating older guys(for girls), etc. I just feel that in a relationship, however the 2 parties want it to be, is really their business. Its not a crime to fall in love(aka fall blindly in love). And really, 'know what they're doing?' I don't know about that but it seems like when you're really deeply in love you tend to 'forget' the 'rights and wrongs' in life. Its kind of bittersweet actually, depending on how you see it and stuff.
When 2 people are together, some things they have to face in life is pressure from everyone around them. Or judgement, however you want to call it.
Its kind of sad, sometimes in my opinion. Because we really don't know how they're feeling or what they're thinking. We're not in their shoes so we really can't judge them on their actions either. (aka premarital sex.)
That's just my opinion of course. ^_^

babyxv

08-14-2006, 02:39 AM

I don't think there's anything wrong with it if both people are mentally prepared to handle whatever consequences that may come. And, of course, the two should love each other and trust each other.

yukiko

08-14-2006, 05:32 AM

im not against premarital sex, but offcourse no changing partner. one for your lifetime. and make sure, the guy is really in love with you and he is the one who will be your future-husband.
and remember, there's a risk. make sure you are ready for the worst

as dianilla said, you may have your though but once you are in relationship, you will never know that you are still with your though.

janjin

08-14-2006, 06:29 AM

I personally have nothing against pre-marital sex. But i did notice this; someone i know who engaged in premarital sex became pregnant and had an abortion. The father was a total ahole about it and gave no support to this person. This person then became somewhat mentally derenged in which they fall through this self-destructive cycle and became intensely depressed. Now you can say that this person has very weak self control and gives in easily.

but i think it boils down to how the two ppl view/value sex in its importance in a relationship. if you both think being promiscuos is alright if taken the proper precautions then you have a love story. But if you have a girl who was promiscuous and then she gets into a relationship with a guy who views sex differently then complications occur.

cacky

08-14-2006, 11:04 AM

im not against premarital sex, but offcourse no changing partner. one for your lifetime. and make sure, the guy is really in love with you and he is the one who will be your future-husband.
and remember, there's a risk. make sure you are ready for the worst

All I can say is that this is rather idealistic thinking. How can you be so sure that he is going to be the one for your lifetime? It's just like that very same question that people often ask ... how can you be so sure that he's THE ONE???

People can change at any point in time. For someone you're so sure that you knew him well can change all of a sudden and make you wonder if you really knew him at all. And one can never be too prepared for the worse unless he/she goes through it.

It's all but a painful process of growing up and learning. I can only say it's a choice that you picked and have to be responsible for.

ene

08-14-2006, 02:34 PM

Well said cacky. I personally believe that if BOTH parties are willing to accept the consequences that come with pre-marital sex and BOTH parties are single, go ahead then. It's a free world. Why should anyone tell you what is the "right" or "wrong" way?

The bottom line is, be responsible to yourself.

yukiko

08-15-2006, 07:23 AM

cacky, that's right. no one ever know what will happen in next future.

maybe i was wrong. but there's must be 1 person that you believe he's the one, maybe not for the real life. but incase, you are in love too deep for him/her that make you willing to do such a premarital sex. MAYBE.

ene, the responsible is not only for ourself, but also the peoples surrounding us.

cacky

08-15-2006, 11:17 AM

but there's must be 1 person that you believe he's the one, maybe not for the real life.

Sorry ... but I am really confused by what you're trying to say .... aren't we all leading a REAL LIFE here??? You mean to say that there are people who live in a make-believe world where all things are what they want to be? If so, I'd like to be in that world! :whistle:

judes

08-15-2006, 05:07 PM

i don't believe in "the one" or having "only one soulmate".
since there are so many people in the world, you are bound to find people who you connect and fit with the best way possible. and those are your "soulmates". they might be the same sex as you or different.

i read somewhere online yesterday an article that really struck me.
you have as many soulmates in the world as you believe in.
if you only think that the person your with is "the one" for all time, then he will be your only one even if you get your heart broken.
but if you believe you have many soulmates, then maybe your next soulmate is a better fit for you emotionally, sexually, physically...etc.

cacky

08-16-2006, 04:32 AM

if you only think that the person your with is "the one" for all time, then he will be your only one even if you get your heart broken.

Yeah man ... I totally agree with you on that one ... Sometimes ... it's really all in the mind ... or should I say ... 'all in the HEART' in this case.

Hanzo

08-16-2006, 06:13 PM

sometimes it's ur hormones as well.... We're programed to want to have sex. It's just how we are... Some just choose to fight the temptation, others will give in to the temptation without thinking about the possible outcome of it.

xanimeotakux

08-16-2006, 09:03 PM

well, for probably most christians, they only want to have sex after marriage. although i'm an atheist, i still think the same way. XD but i don't think it's exactly wrong to have premarital sex though.

azn_babii_gurl

08-17-2006, 06:37 PM

if it feels right. then why not go ahead. over 50% of couples dat marry these days end up in divorce. so thats something to think abt. its not entirely abt loving someone i suppose. but. do it responsibly.

i agree with judes. theres no such thing as the one or a soulmate. dats so cliche. u learn to get used to someone n u grow to like them (and maybe eventually fall in love with them). come on, with 7 billion ppl in the world, where the hell u gonna go to find ur soulmate?

yukiko

08-18-2006, 05:16 AM

so you dont believe that might be a person to be "the one" in your life? maybe it my fool to believe such an idiot thing, but yes i still believe. i dont have an idea how to explain it here.. im not really good in debate. T_T

E_Revolutions

08-19-2006, 10:48 PM

ene

08-20-2006, 06:35 AM

personally I am against it. but if the person feels that they are trully going to spend the rest of their lives with their significant other they are currently dating or whatnot, then its their choice.
But what do you mean by "feels"? Feelings are going to change, people grow up, people grow apart. So if you "feel" that this person is THE ONE now and then 3 years later, realise he/she is NOT the one, what then?

Would you feel "cheated"?

But I agree. It is ultimately up to the individual, based on each person's beliefs, religion, etc. No one can come and say who is right or wrong, imo.

henry

08-20-2006, 06:55 AM

pre marital sex is ok..but quite dangerous too...if your partneris below 18...more dangerous..dun let the police found out.if not..means bye bye..and wear a condom too.:p

yukiko

08-20-2006, 07:06 AM

anyway, life sometimes is just like a gambling. now, i can state he's THE ONE. but maybe in next time, everything change. and if, i have give him my virginity, just lets say im lost. feel cheated? off course. but that's life. and contrition always came late.
and life must go on..

it's not about play safe, using a condom, or everything.
it's all about feeling

jielun_

08-22-2006, 09:42 AM

yeah, i have to agree that it's not just the unwanted pregnancies or STDs you might get.

it's also about the over-whelming guilt some may face after the incident.

personally, i feel that pre-marital sex is wrong. teenagers nowadays treat sex as if it is something they do everyday, it's no longer considered sacred anymore. IMO, sex is both a physical and emotional union for two people. it should only be done when both partners are really in love and only when they are prepared, it shouldn't be done in a moment of... weakness. whatever you call that.

anyway, i'm someone who's very careful when it comes to relationships. at this age (i'm currently 16), i know that i'm not ready for anything real that's why i don't take them seriously. for now. let me just share with you one of my experiences.<p>
the furthest i ever got to was frenching. fullstop. once, my bf and i er, did some stuff on the bed (not sex) and the next day i felt terrible! it's like whatever we did was SO wrong. i broke up with him after that because i didn't want this to continue. oh, and because he's one possessive *******.

so what i'm trying to say is, CONTROL. well at least that's what i think it's right. i have this habit of stopping my past BFs from going too far when things get too "heated up" and they understand. just explain. if he threatens to break up with you because of that then screw it, he's not worth it. it's so obvious that he only wants your body.

it's alright to experiment abit now but don't let it go too far or you may end up regretting. we're still young and there's no need to rush into things.[P]

:-)

cync.jay

08-23-2006, 05:15 AM

premarital sex.. guess depends on how u look at it.. if it's NO to premarital sex coz of the virginity issue.. then should ask.. how u DEFINE virginity.. haha.. getting more abstract..

k.. my view on this issue.. hmm.. im ok with it.. as long as u take responsibility for everything u did.. actually i have contradictions.. of coz.. if possible.. saving urself for the wedding nite is great.. but hey.. be realistic.. is that possible?.. aikss.. don't get mad at me for those that think it's possible and a must.. hmm.. i regard myself as a very emotional and 'feeling' person.. i guess when the time comes and the person and the feeling is right.. it is just so.. ahaha.. even my parents told me their first is not at their wedding nite.. c?.. that was almost 25 yrs ago.. and ppl oso have premarital sex..

hmm.. but.. don do it because u have to do so.. if ur dearest bf says 'give me if u love me'.. is that love?.. hmm.. agreeing with premarital sex doesnt mean agreeing with "sleeping around".. haha.. i ll call them cheap..

another thing.. do not regret and blame the guy if the relationship ended thou u had given in.. it's not his fault.. ultimately.. YES or NO.. it takes 2 person.. that is ur partner and u.. hmm.. the world is a harsh place.. rarely anything is forever..

conclusion.. it's ok if both u r mature enough and are willing to face the consequences.. and yes.. use condoms.. for pevention of STDs and unwanted babies.. babies are the most innocent human.. if prenancy due to premarital sex happens.. be responsible.. do not kill or leave them to die.. there are many helping hands out there..

haha.. these are just what i think now.. coz i had not yet face the dilemma.. hmm.. just that dont hold too hard on ur belief.. ppl keeps growing and changing.. perhaps one day.. ur opinion changes too.. so always be open-minded and it's ok if u do change.. haha..

sorry for my weird words.. ~

venetta

09-01-2006, 09:12 AM

Sex is sex. What word preceeding it does not make it difference. That's my opinion.

Why is it that marriag edefine what you can or cannot do? What is a marriage anyway? A piece of paper that you sign in front of a bunch of people, that stating now you are officially together. Why do you need a paper and a group of people to tell you that you are now allowed to be with the person you love. The person you want to be with. How about divorce? You have had sex with that person and even maybe children, you show every part of yourself to that person, and suddenly you are separated. Both of you like strangers except maybe some shred of hate and spite. So whta is the difference between that and when you have sex with your boyfriend and than you both break up? Oh let me tell you the difference,

A piece of paper.

Yes that's it. A piece of paper that is signed by judge, court, and your lawyers and probably both parties (I don't know exactly since I have never been in a divorce or even marriage for that matter). So, is a piece of paper really that important?

Sex is abou t enjoyment and fulfillment of your spiritual and physical soul. You and your partners will share something precious and intimacy while you are at it. Something very intimate that sometimes you don't have it at any other point of your relationship. You learn to accept and appreciate that person in every aspect of his/her body. Honestly, not evrybody has the kind of body like it is portrayed in a movie or magazine. We definitely have part that we hate or we do not think pleasant to look at. If your partner is someone who truly have feelings for you, appreciate you, love you, these unpleasant things would be the opposite. It's part of who you are. They accept you, they love you. And you should do the same.

And why is it that only guys supposed to enjoy sex? Are women not allowed? Sex should be enjoyed by both parties. Why can't guys be scared that after they have sex, their girlfriends would leave them beacuse they can't deliver the girls' expectations. Why is it that only guys would want their partners to be virgin, 'first-hand good'? What are we? A handphone? Women want their men to be virgin too. Or is virginity is all that matters? Is it not possible that we fall in love with someone else before we meet our future husband? Because love does not mean forever. You can love someone as much as you want but you can't be with him.

Okay I think I have talked for quite too long and I apologize if I hurt anyone or my saying is not totally agreeable, but it's just me. I am allowed to think and respond, no? :wink2:

So I think pre-marital sex is nothing but sex and as long as you play safe plus do not hurt anyone, it should be alright.

xiaohei88

09-01-2006, 11:06 AM

Okay.. im not encouraging this.. i used to be so against this.. but i guess i just change my point of view thats all.. don't get me wrong.. and yes.. for me.. i wont have any.. i'm more of a tradition person.. keeping virginity for the one.. although my points of views changed doesnt me my principles have to change either right?

So.. if people wants to have premarital sex before marriage.. just let them be.. So long they know whats their consequences are.. its their body and free will.. we cant stop it.. all we have to do.. is just hope that they know what they're doing using protection and all...

So those who are saying yes to it.. what about the younger generations?.. what are you going to say to the early teens?.. 'Kids sex is good?'.. or 'sex is okay'?.. there must be some boundary to this right?..

Its not scarsism.. im really curious.. theres always limit to things and if we dont say no to things like this?.. young teens do follow.. someone please enlighten me..

preciuous4e

09-02-2006, 07:52 PM

I'm not against pre-maritial sex but that's not to say that I don't take into consideration what i'm doing and who i'm doing it with. I think that when two people feel that they are ready physically and emotionally, then there isn't anything wrong with having sex. And sometimes for me I feel that some take virginity too seriously (not talking about anyone here in particular). I think that whether someone is a virgin or not it doesn't change who they are and I wouldn't treat or think of anyone differently if they weren't a virgin. So I respect the people who choose not to have sex until after marriage but I also respect those who choose not to wait.

beyOnd aLL reasOn

09-09-2006, 06:57 AM

There's absolutely nothing wrong with pre marital sex.
It all depends on what the individual thinks.
Everyone should be careful with pre marital sex, but there's nothing inherently "wrong" about it.

gifted1

09-09-2006, 07:12 AM

Meh, some people in this thread makes me sick and blabla.

I'm mostly talking to girls here. Almost all the "YOU" and "YOUR" or w/e are pointing at girls.

I think Pre-Marital Sex is fine, as long as you know with who you're doing this with or that with.

Especially girls, like in the 2nd post of this thread, when girls loses their virginity, you lose it forever, and you remember what it feels like and blabla so goes on... and guys can just walk away and care about nothing.

Pre-Marital sex is somehow bad, but not bad like you can't do it though, sometimes Pre-Marital sex involves a lot of problem.

YOU'RE YOUNG, YOU'RE IN A RELATIONSHIP, AND YOU DON'T KNOW IF THIS GUY IS CLEAN OR HE'S A REAL PLAYBOY OR DIRTY NAUGHTY BOY IN BED. so...

Stuff like, forgetting Condom: A lot of risks that's involved, you can get HIV and lots of other stuff, nasty stuff like Herpes and... eeh...

Also like, when sperm drops inside and inconsciously, you're pregnant.

Because in Pre-Marital Relationships, most people takes it less seriously and just want to take the most of you and then let you go when you're not diao anymore. Diao bu diao? Not at all.

Anyways, Pre-Marital sex is a big discussion, myself, I can say it's alright as long as you know what you're doing, jibba-jabba, this-and-that.

OH and also, reputation.

Some people tend to lie a lot or have a big mouth, my friends always brag about having sex with that girl or that one. If you had sex with someone and that guy is a real bragwhore - guess what? yep, everyone will call you a whore and probably try to get you for a one night stand, diao? no.

So, for the rest of your life, the guys you'll meet will put you on their cell number list and note it as: THIS CHICK IS A WHORE, SHWEEET. Would you want to be called a one night stand chick, or some random chick? no.

And in some cases, there's some guys that tend to take advantage over a girl, if he knows that you already did it, they'll probably think you're horny and that you need something. So they'll try to get you cornered alone, and get you to strip off and to have sex, uncalled for but it's a rape.

ANYWAYS, this is a really strong and mature matter to discuss so I rest my case here.

Pre-Marital Sex leads you to a lot of roads, especially if you're still young.

When you're married, I DOUBT that your husband will say: "OH MY GOD, my wife has a ... and ... she's good at... she has... she's a fiery beast... she's .... she knows how to... ..." you get the point.

EDIT

@venetta: hm, I think girls enjoy sex more than guys... just ask yourself, you should know your own answer. I do agree most guys leave their gf because they're not good enough, but I think it's stupid... in my case, I'm scared to not please the opposite sex enough so maybe she would leave me and say: "naw, you're bad." And why guys want virgin girls, it's because a lot of guys dream to start all over, so we think: "oh, maybe a virgin girl will stick around me more than other girls, since they already had sex and they want it often and I'm not good enough, maybe a virgin girl would be nice." I think that's what guys think, but in my opinion, I want a virgin girl like lots of guys do since they have no experience whatsoever and I can be sure they're not whores (I'm not saying all non-virgin girls are whores though) and there's some virgin guys out there that wants to start at SCRATCH, since both of them knows nothing and if they do go far in their relationship, well they can learn together and teach stuff they want. There's some guys that gets tired of having sex sometimes. Let's say, if a girl wants it each day and each night, and the guy is in a football team and works with weird shifts, I tell you, he must be EXTREMELY tired and he does not want to do anything, if you know what I mean.

Oh and I know what you mean by "women wants virgin men as well". I know what you mean, it's vice-versa. I don't know if a lot of men wants to go back into the past and erase what they did but I surely do... I wanna have a fresh start and forget all these stupid nonsense horny thoughts in my mind sometimes.

Your post is a bit stereotype and sexist, then again, I have no idea what's on your mind though, sorry in advance, I'll stop now but I could type another huge paragraph.

venetta

09-15-2006, 10:33 AM

gifted1, you said I'm sexist. I think I do :D. In the post at least. Real life, not really.

You don't know what's on my mind, that's good. I like that. Cos sometimes people thought they do and start commenting and judging you. I hate judgement.

I was sexist for a reason. Most of the posts here are sexist too. I get the impression, Guys= ecstasy. Girls =suffer. Not true. They all said when things go wrong, the girls will get it all. The guys will walk away free. That's what most people think, that's only happen when you have sex with an irresponsible egoistic asshole. Honestly. When you decide to have it, you have it with someone whom you can trust, someone who want hurt you. There are plenty of guys with these good points.

So yah that's why I was sexist.
That's what I think. That's my opinion. Hopefully noone gets offended.

gifted1

09-22-2006, 08:34 AM

venetta, when you talk about a guy walking away, do you mean by: "I got you laid on my couch, thanks for everything... WHAT? NO, the condom didn't break, no wait, I have to go... beep beep..." then... that scene is kinda familiar in movies and in ghetto places but I don't really know. Unlike me, when I did that kind of shit during my life. I cried for nights and prayed that she wouldn't be pregnant, since it was a bit late to take the pill. I care for stuff and I'm responsible for my acts, so why can't other guys act like this as well? Why do they walk away and just laugh at the girls that they get pregnant? Why does some innocent girl have to get an abortion due to a unconscious rape? Sometimes, it's outrageous. I just wanna kick a dude's ass for being stupid. If that was what you were talking about, then I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. Some guys walk away way too easily, while I have to be a queer crying and wishing nothing happens because I'll be in deep shit if something does happen...

~ guys don't be offended, my post has nothing to do with you, it generalizes us all. I'm sure lots of guys like to have sex and doesn't care about responsibilities - ... but some does care.

yukiko

09-23-2006, 09:57 AM

There's nothing false with premarital sex...
i hate it when people commenting and judge the people who already did 'it'.
it's our own life, we dont bother you by doing 'it', but why they bothering us with the comment and judgement??!!! wondering if you have a daughter, cute/adorable sister, they do 'it' and you dont know about 'it', in the same time, you judge other... better to pay more attention for your own family.
and how if one of them got pregnant? where would you hide your face? in your ass? come on, just face it, life is not that naive.

and i hate it when people say they against premarital sex because they have religion. what the hell with it?
sex is a sacral thingy, it's the thing we do with the one we love and trust, MARIAGE is just a formality nowadays...

the first time might always be the best-nicest or whatever you call it,
but please respect other not for what we had done, but what will we do for you.
past is always be the past, it cant change anything by judging it

jazlyn87

11-22-2006, 07:08 PM

you know what?

when i was younger, i thought premarital sex was okay, it was fine .. but then as i grew older and i develop my own independent thoughts and feelings .. i feel that premarital sex is something .. not right

to me, sex is making love .. and maybe as a girl, i feel that giving it up for someone who is not your husband is sad ..

i come from a conservative family and i know that if a girl simply gives her virginity , it will turn really ugly.. sure.. you love the guy and the guy says he loves you too.. but how do you really really know?

i feel as a girl , i have every right to be cautious .. after all, the guys are not the ones whose getting pregnant or being labelled as a slut .. a guy could just claim he's not the dad and walk away .. and then what happens? abortion? give up for adoption? no?

then have the baby without a dad ? .. the rising case of abortions and abandoning new born infants is bad enough nowadays ..

oh then what's the difference if you're married? at least by law and should be , by blessing of the family, you are wedded rightfully. even if he walks out on you if you're pregnant, you still can go to the law because he's a legal husband and actions can be taken ..

then there's the question of " what if you married him and found out none of you are good in bed?"

i say.. learn.. hey, if you love each other enough to get to marriage, why not learn.. why make sex miserable for both .. if you love the person enough to be married , then learn together ..

*shake head* there's no excuses that "you can't resist sex" .. i don't believe it ... if others can do , why can't you? why can't keep your hands to yourself ?
one hour of pleasure could and might cause you a lifetime of misery ..

i'm not saying that every guy will leave the girl but what are the chances ? i heard too many stories, seen many cases about these .. and it's sad and sickening ..

i always believed

" Your virginity is the best gift for your husband"

Sugar&Spice

11-22-2006, 11:35 PM

I agree with the above post!! Girl you make alot of sense for a 19 year old teen. I agree with the part that was said, about virginity is the best gift for your husband. I feel the same way.

I can't stand how people who have had sex before marrige say that they don't want to be judged, but will judge those who don't want to be used before marriage. And say that we are over reacting, and taking things too seiously. And lets no say that religon has no place when it comes to losing your virginity, that has been what I've been hearing alot. And I disagree, if you take religon into account, then you have higher standards. I mean people who just allow themselves to sleep with someone because they THINK that they are in love. In my opinion, has no self-control. It speaks more of an individual, when they can controll themselves, and wait.

People say that marriage is over-rated, and it not important. But that just shows a lack of respect, for themselves and anyone who they may think that they are attracted to. Its like saying,"I don't mind sleeping with you, and living together with you. But making it offical is just not important." What the heck is that?! Nonsense is what it is!! Just because we are not in the golden days dose not mean that we have to lose all of our self-respect!! I think that it would be best if people kept their legs close until they take those vows. But that is only my opinion.

As for kids, and teens who are having sex and thinking about sex. I'am completely against it!! They need to concentrate on beinging children, not pulling their pants down, or their skirts up. They have so much more that they can be accomplishing, instead of sex.

Also, there is a big difference between sex, and love making. Sex is intercourse without any feelings attatched. But love making is two people joining together because they love eachother and want to bond on the highist level possible. Anyone who says that there is no difference between the two, is obviously not ready to have either one.

yukiko

11-23-2006, 05:56 AM

yes i know that virginity is the best gift we can give for our husband,
and i do also have seen so much cases that you mean jazlyn.
when that case come up to the surface, you cant just blame the guy or the girl. yes that is their fault, but when the all bad things come up, they need our support. dont blame them anymore, that is not what they need from people around them...

i dont really against premarital sex, but when it comes to teenager, of course i against it, but let say you are 30 something, i mean can you still keep virgin?

my point is, what they have done, it's their decision. we can only keep watching them with careness if they are our lovely fellow... do not over judging them. dont busybody-ing them. just show that you are care.

i hate it when people keep busybodying our own private issues....

jazlyn : there's a marriage is not based with love nowadays.....

jazlyn87

11-23-2006, 06:15 AM

if 30 something, they should be old enough to handle the cause and effect of premarital sex .. i was talking about young teens .. so what if marriage is not based on love? that's their private business already .. they choose to be married without love ..

i stand strong on my point .. i judge people who abort even when it's not health reason.. i don't trust people who are pregnant and not married .. unless they're divorce or they were raped ..

judes

11-23-2006, 06:21 AM

i think that i would rather see a woman who is pregnant or a single mother who is not married, than a woman who marries just because she got pregnant. even though her situation is not ideal, it's still better than marrying with financial obligations and being tied to one man legal just "for the child". i've seen a lot of unhappy situations THAT way.

but i believe if you engage in premarital sex, you should take responsibility for your actions and go on birth control and wear a condom if you're not in a monogamous relationship. it's important to take care of yourself.

i think we put too much emphasis on "sex" in our culture though, whether one extreme as objectifying women in pornography or the other extreme as your virginity being a sacred precious thing that someone "takes" away from you.

sex is not that high on a pedestal. it's primal, it's one of our desires, and one of the most basics things about people.

yukiko

11-23-2006, 06:36 AM

but i believe if you engage in premarital sex, you should take responsibility for your actions and go on birth control and wear a condom if you're not in a monogamous relationship. it's important to take care of yourself.

absolutely agree.

addition point..
if the premarital sex cause pregnant, for girls, dont enforce the guys to marry you. ask once and twice is enough, dont enforce them, if they really love you, they would love to marrying you even you are not asking them.
Yes we girl have right to sue them for the pregnant, but it's might be not the best way for you both to get married because of the pregnant, single mother is not that bad. we have women power... a girl can be a father and also a mother, but a guy cant be a mother

yes jazlyn, abort is very shame thing, better to be single mother, isnt it?

cacky

11-23-2006, 10:22 AM

I just find it interesting in reading some of the posts here that mention "What if after marriage, you find that the sex is no good?" So ... does this give a legitimate reason to have sex before marriage? Errrrrrrr ... I don't think so, right?

I mean, that kinda statement makes it seem like sex is ALL SO IMPORTANT in every marriage. But isn't marriage about more than just sex? Some people can just live together happily without having it based on sex, isn't it?

ankh

11-23-2006, 12:09 PM

" Your virginity is the best gift for your husband"

I don't quite agree with this.
In marriage, the best gift for your husband should be trust.
That's in lieu to my opinions.

I echo judes' sentiments on marriage after pregnancy. I think that's the worst case scenario. The society we live in now is deregulated from the old conservative ways of the past --- simply put, the people now wouldn't stay together for the rest of their lives for the sake of their kids. How many such celebrity couples have broken up for precisely this reason?

I'm not here to judge on whether premarital sex is right.
I'm chinese and brought up in rather traditional Asian environment. The ideal situation would be to not have premarital sex but given the circumstances or whatever reason, if someone feels ready to give his/her virginity to someone whom you wouldn't even be spending the rest of your life with, that's fine and dandy with me provided they take the neccessary precautions.

cacky, marriage is more than sex. But sex also plays an important part in maintaining a healthy and happy marriage. Sure, married couples can go without engaging in sex but usually that signifies some sort of a problem in their relationship. Sex after marriage becomes more than just the skinship; it's the bond.

countess

11-23-2006, 04:11 PM

ankh agreed. i'm chinese and have been brought up quite traditionally and also as a Christian. Therefore, you would think that premaritial sex is out of the question for me. However, i've come to realise more and more that this doesn't necessarily ALWAYS have to be the case. I don't think that the man is "using" a girl if they have sex, as a previous post suggested. If we're trying to reach gender equality in this society we have to accept that having sex is the same act for both genders, just that the female has to take precaution that it is SAFE.

Its no suprise why so many young couples are choosing to have sex before marriage and enter a defacto relationship these days- its simply because the institution of marriage and the values it holds seem almost unattainable. Many people do not believe in it, and that is their right.

Personally, if i felt that the relationship with my boyfriend was stable enough and we trusted each other enough, then i would consider having sex before marriage. After all, it's one of the things that will bring you closer and its like advancing onto the next level of intimacy and romance. I don't see what is so negative about that- only maybe society's conservative ways of thinking and the "tut tuts" you might receive from certain people. I don't think our society today is very open-minded at all- even though we all seem to be on the surface, a general survey on the people even on this thread will tell you that.

Lastly, this is not meant to be funny, but just something one of my classmates told me. TRY BEFORE YOU BUY. When i heard it, i immediately giggled- however after thinking deeper into those words, i realised that it IS important to have a good sex life. Sex is a crucial aspect in a couples relationship. Countless marriages have broken up because it was bad/uninspired/boring. I'm not saying sex is THE most important aspect, but it is definitely up there i think.

At the end of the day it is all about perspective, and therefore i try not to typecast people who have had more sexual experience than others their same age- it's just their way of living, and if they are truly happy, then good for them.

judes

11-23-2006, 05:54 PM

good points everyone.

I mean, that kinda statement makes it seem like sex is ALL SO IMPORTANT in every marriage. But isn't marriage about more than just sex? Some people can just live together happily without having it based on sex, isn't it?

it's true that after a while, your initial sexual desire and your "spark" and your "physical attraction" wears off, and that's where it really tests your relationship and your marriage, to see if it will work even with this kind of stress on your relationship. even so, a marriage is only a business contract if you don't have physical intimacy on top of it. it's about give and take, and there is probably one person who wants sex more than the other and that's the way things are. and there is nothing wrong with a marriage if BOTH parties agree that they don't want to have sex, but it's also wrong if you go into a marriage believing that you will get the amount of sex you desire and to be misled or disappointed by what you receive.

like a few people have already said, although marriage isn't ABOUT sex, sex is an important and crucial part of a relationship. it's something that brings a couple together on all sorts of levels, physical, biological, emotional and mental. the predominant thing that sex is about in a relationship is trust. trust to open up to your partner and to be seen as you are.

i respect people who are able to save sex until their marriage if they and their partner truly believe that it is what is right for them. i also respect those who have sex before they are married because they choose it for themselves and if the relationship doesn't work out, they take it in stride and are mature about it and about the choices they make.

i don't like people who believe it is their right to dictate that every girls' virginity should be saved for "her husband" and that while it's "more ok" for men to sleep around, girls should keep their legs shut. that's a ridiculous double standard. i also don't like people who judge those who choose to have premarital sex or choose to not have sex. and i hate those who pretend that they are "technical virgins".

that's why i absolutely abhor the word "virgin" because what does it mean today anyway? it's an empty term and a concept that is outdated. before when virginity meant anything it was equated with physical purity as in a woman has never been touched by a man now it just means you can be with millions of men and he just hasn't been inside of you. it's not a good standard anymore.

darkwinn

11-26-2006, 06:07 AM

I think this is based on what society has brought u up as thinking. If you believe its wrong then don't do it but if u want to then go ahead. Either way love doesn't equal sex. Theres many other ways to show love then sex. Sex is just part of the human process of survival. Sorry to be blunt :/

Sugar&Spice

11-26-2006, 08:34 AM

Okay all arguments aside. Here is my view on a few points that I saw as I read the latest posts. Some of them have disturbed me for so many reasons. Here they are.

1. What is virginity?! A technical virgin?! Let me answer with my opinion. No, it is not ok to be with millions of men, without having actual intercourse. If you fondel, or have the kind of sex that dose not require opening your legs. That is what I call a loss of innocence. Although your virginity may be intact, your innocence is not. That is a technical virgin. And I don't support that. In my mind, and I'm not sure if anyone else agrees but. In my mind, being a virgin is when you are not touched in any way, you are pure, and clean. I think that, that is the state that young people should be in. That term "Virgin" Is not outdated. I feel that people tend to ignore the term, because alot of people cannot live up to its standards. It is not the essence or standard of the term that has become outdated. I have come to see that it is becuase of the mind frame of people, why this term has lost its meaning. People tend to have less self-control, and let their body lead them. And because of this new found, so-called 2006 updated, anything gose, kind of thinking. The word virgin became an annoyence, and all- of- a -sudden the term virgin has lost its meaning, and is no longer important.

Teenagers seem to think that they are grown enough to go ahead and have sex with their boyfriends/girlfriends because they feel that they love one another. But young peoples feelings change constantly, and they may end up apart(breaking-up) And then what?! You used your body, for something that was fleeting. Just to do it again when you feel you love someone else?! That is not a good habit.

I don't like to judge anyone who decides that they may want to have sex before marriage. That is their choice. But I don't recommend it. Expecially for teens and younger ones.

I can't stand the fact that being a virgin is taken so lightly. And I'm not talking about just females, I'm talking about males too. Being a virgin is not always just pointed at women. In my book, I think males should practice self-control too.

Why is it that people say, that wanting to be a virgin until your wedding night, is going overboard?! I mean what is wrong with it?! I find that laying on your back everytime you think you're in love is going overboard. But that is a difference of opinion. I think that it is important to be able to grow with the person who you are married to. Emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. But because not many people are practicing this today, it seems taboo on many levels. I think that the lack of respect that people have for the word virgin, shows a lack of morals in society.

I have seen that some people don't even regard marriage as scared anymore. Its just a business deal without the sex?! A business deal, is very formal, with little to no feelings at all. So you mean to tell me that without the sex, marriage would just be formal?! Okay, I'm no crazy person, "love making" is important to a certain extent in a MARRIAGE(I put it in caps, becausse I'm not supporting pre-marital sex) But that is not all there is to a marriage. There should be a bonding between man and woman, outside of the bedroom. They should be friends, companions, and then lovers. Because if intercourse becomes so important, then what else do you have when you climb out of the bed. Nothing until you climb back into it?! That is not a relationship/marriage, that is a sexual agreement to meet in the same place every night. And things like that don't last long.

I agree that trust is important if a marriage is going to work. But that can go for your wedding night too. I wouldn't trust a man who has had his share of sexual partners before my wedding. It may seem t me as if he is some kind of player, and is never really satisfied with one partner. Him being a virgin on the wedding night would mean that he has morals. And I mean a total virgin, not having experiences with other things.

Yes sexual desire is a part of human nature. But that is what seperates us from the animals. We can reason, and use self-control. We should not just go by what our body tells us. I'm not saying anyone else should definately live by these things, or else I'll think they are nasty. I'm just stating my views and standards. And feel free to disagree with me. I won't bite off anyones head.:D

gifted1

11-26-2006, 09:52 AM

Whoa, I'm surprised this thread is still going on.

Sugar&Spice, you're right, it seems like young people are having bad habit and they're just giving away their body just too easily. Sometimes, I just don't get girls. At first, when one of my friends (girl) said: "Hey, if I ever like a guy, I'll be patient and wait at least for [Insert Time Here] and I'll actually do it with him. Or else, I'll break up because he's not worth it." Okay, does that mean Sex is a matter of time? What if the dude's just waiting for the girl to be in lust so he can take advantage and be a total spoiled brat about it? I just don't get why sometimes young people are just going at it so fast. If your relationship really need sexual content to be able to survive, there must be a problem there.

jazlyn87, omg, your post is very good! Especially when you said...

i always believed

" Your virginity is the best gift for your husband "

I felt this thing inside me, so sweet and warm... :( only if all girls thought like that, and all the guys would try to not be such a playboy...

Sugar&Spice

11-27-2006, 08:00 AM

Gifted1- You brought up a good point. You spoke about young girls saying that at a certain time, they would do it with theguy, and if they don't they will break up with him. I agree with you. People tend to think that it is always the young men who are more foward. But I have seen that it is the young girls who are just as foward, mayb even more forward then the young men They pressure them to do it, and then lose intreast. Leaving the young man to wondr what went wrong, and leaving him to feel like something is wrong with him. When that is not true.

I want to bring up another point, even though a young person makes a mistake, and losses their virginity. BUT relise they made a mistke. They should not beat themselves up because of it. They can't change the past, but at least they do not continue to abuse their bodies. And because of that they are just as pure, and clean as if they never did anything.

Because beings that they are young, and made a mistake by the time they are older, and have waited until theirwedding night before engaging in intercourse again. It is like they have their virginity back.

Not technicaly but you know what I mean.

lornac1208

11-28-2006, 04:21 AM

ya know... im not really saying it's wrong... but i'm against it... i mean.... i would just feel unclean if i already had some kind of experience with someone else and not my future husband. i believe in soulmates... and if you've already lost your virginity... i just don't feel that it's...... right?

gifted1

11-28-2006, 04:54 AM

Like Sugar&Spice said earlier, she said that "what the past is the past, you can't erase them and just ruin your life because of that". whatsoever, it isn't that bad but it can't be good neither :P

jujusniper

11-28-2006, 05:31 AM

judes

11-28-2006, 06:03 AM

i agree with blue chaos [ above ] about girls have to make sure the guys are truly in love with them first.. But after thinking for a while..if a guy really love a girl and is committed into the relationship, the guy would respect a girl's decision when she rejects having sex with him. But if a guy threatens a girl to have sex with him or she has to face a break up, this definitely goes to show the guy isn't interested in the girl at all. instead his main motive is just to have sex. However, i seriously tik premarital sex shld be avoided. Imagine urself getting pregnant when u're just in ur teens..Forcing both parties to marry each other would onli end up in a divorce.

like i've always stated, it is bad for girls to be pressured into sex when they don't want to have sex, but it is also disrespectful to a man if he is in a committed relationship when he does want to have sex. in this case, unless the two parties can work it out, then they are better off not being together because of this difference. even so, i still maintain that it is not "wrong" for a guy to want sex and that not all guys when they want sex in a relationship are "just there to have sex". there are different levels of a relationship and if you are prepared to take that step and go forward in physical intimacy and are ready to protect yourself, i don't see why not.

And i also disagree with judes. There's no nid to learn how to have good sex before marrying a guy. Everything will come naturally. There's a right time to learn something. But placing urself at risk to learn something is too dangerous and risky. Yes, using pills n condoms may lower the risk of pregnancy but the chances of getting pregnant is always there. Better be safe than sorry.

once again, i'm not saying you need to "learn" how to have good sex by having multiple partners. but if you are in a monogamous relationship and you have employed birth control, then if you feel you are ready, then by all means go forth and have sex and learn how to have good sex. i am assuming that you are a virgin when you say that it will all come naturally, if i am wrong, then correct me.

i assure you from personal experience and from my friend's experiences, sex does not flow along naturally. it is awkward, it is embarrassing, and sometimes messy, but a lot of fun. i stress that it is not the fabled, all encompassing beautiful ideal it is, and if you go into a relationship and a marriage thinking it is, you are surely to be disappointed. it is not fireworks and romance and throes of orgasmic pleasure, it takes a while to get two people used to the idea of being together and it takes a while to get used to everything that goes on with your body.

and of course if you are afraid of pregnancy you have every right to NOT have sex before marriage. only that in this day and age, you do not need to be "married" to have children, and just because you are not married, does not mean that you are not committed to one another. if you live together with someone for over three years you are common law partners bound by the same legalities as a married couple, this means all of your assets are shared and you may file taxes together. i know many couples that do just fine without having to commit to each other through a ceremony but would rather recognize their union a different way. i respect people who believe that marriage is the end all be all whether it's for religious or personal reasons and i respect people who choose not to get married.

i do not endorse being sexually promiscuous or sleeping with all sorts of partners. i do not support people who are together just for the sake of having sex without a relationship behind it. but i do support premarital sex because once you reach the age of an adult, you are given choices under the law. you have choices to make about weighing the pros and cons and risks of pregnancy and STDs and the trust and honesty issues between you and your partner. you have to decide if you are mature enough to face the consequences of pregnancy.

for me, i believe that marriage is the end of the road and that i am committed to be with the person for the rest of my life. which is why i am protecting myself. i am protecting myself by seeing the kind of person he is with money and with his daily lifestyle by living with him beforehand. i am protecting myself by seeing that we can sexually satisfy each other and are in sync with each other sexually before we get married and commit ourselves to the relationship. i am protecting myself by knowing his beliefs regarding religion, morals, by knowing the type of person he is through his attitude in and out of bed. i am protecting myself by experimenting, by seeing where my boundaries lie, by experiencing my sexuality before having to only be with one person for the rest of my life without regret. i am protecting myself by respecting my body and my partner's body through the use of birth control and of talking about what to do if pregnancy does come up and what we will work on together as a couple to deal with this situation.

that is my choice.
and you make your own.

although, i don't think many people who have not been in a long term relationship know what it's like until you get there. when you reach that point, good luck to you, especially if you find a partner that wants sex and you want to save yourself. it's rocky from there.

all i want to express by posting this is to educate younger girls who may be as confused about sexuality and about premarital sex as i was. make sure everything is your choice and your choice only, and if you have a shred of doubt, then don't do it. but if you do commit yourself to a sexual relationship and it doesn't work out, don't fret, because it is a learning experience. you make your own decisions, you are in charge of your own body whether you believe that you should have premarital sex or not.

jazlyn87

11-28-2006, 06:20 AM

i'm still putting my foot down ..

there's no excuses for premarital sex ..

no matter how much you love each other

or such stuff ..

it's not only about the responsibility, it's also about the heart and soul

imagine this

" i sleep with him/her cause i love him/ her. we'll be together forever"

then within two weeks, break up

what's the point !!! why give it to someone just like that ?

isn't it worth it to wait for the right person?

at least let ur union be blessed by family and friends

countess

11-28-2006, 03:08 PM

Some of these points made here are very valid. It's great to see that there is still a good mix of opinions.

However, what i don't understand is why so many people seem to think that marriage is the ultimate security for a relationship. These days 50% of marriages end up in divorce. That is a whooping figure. The question is WHY? Is it because prior to marrying your partner you didn't know his/her living habits? You didn't know that he/she had quirks that you find repugnant and repulsive? Lastly, i can't stress enough how important sex is in a relationship as i've stated before. Too many marriages have broken up because of a terrible sexual relationship.

So in response to "if i sleep with him/her and we break up 2 weeks later", it is very possible to happen in a marriage too. In that scenario however, it would be a million times worse, you might already have kids and extra responsibilities up your sleeve.

I don't understand what is so taboo about sex before marriage. Maybe if you're part of a religion that firmly reprimands it, i can understand where you're coming from. Maybe its just the Asian conservative ways of thinking that have led many to think it's the ultimate sin. In no way am i saying "have promiscuous sex with anyone who wants it with you". I don't support mindless sex, but i do support it when it has been a decision made together by the two parties as a means to take their relationship onto a new level, bearing in mind all the pro's and con's that come with it.

judes

11-28-2006, 05:22 PM

i'm still putting my foot down ..
there's no excuses for premarital sex ..
no matter how much you love each other
or such stuff ..
it's not only about the responsibility, it's also about the heart and soul

huh? i don't quite understand what you're saying.
"heart and soul"? why would two people who decide to have sex involve the heart and soul? what makes it so terrible without being married? why can't you be in love without marriage?

imagine this
" i sleep with him/her cause i love him/ her. we'll be together forever"
then within two weeks, break up
what's the point !!! why give it to someone just like that ?
isn't it worth it to wait for the right person?

that's the argument that most people have against premarital sex without backing up their statements. even if you sleep with someone and they break up with you two weeks later, what's wrong with that? why make it so that "if we sleep together we HAVE to stay together?" having sex with someone doesn't mean that you have to be together forever, it's not as if you got married and signed a contract. like countess stated, it's probably conservative asian values drilled into the heads of each generation or religious beliefs, and there's nothing wrong with tradition, only that i don't believe sex is that final. important, true, but not the finality.

if a man breaks up with you after you sleep with him, so what? you can't change the past, it has educated you to open your eyes more and to look deeper into a person in the future. i hate it when girls sob and cry and moan about how this guy totally played her and dumped her after he got what he wanted. yes, it's terrible, but move on. the end of a terrible relationship is opening doors to a better one.

at least let ur union be blessed by family and friends

don't get me started on the concept of marriage.
my marriage is for me and for no one else. i don't need the blessings of my mother's friends or my friend's friends or my fiancee's first cousin twice removed. i don't believe in the idea that "marriage is the union of two families" anymore.

but back on topic.
my point all along: if you want to participate in premarital sex great, if you don't, super fantastic as well. but don't judge someone for the choices they make, because why do we have these ideas about sex anyway? due to our culture and religion, and living in a free society means that we can exercise our rights to not follow the majority or the minority.

ankh

11-29-2006, 02:41 PM

I think judes basically covered the bulk of what I wanted to say regarding this topic.

But I couldn't resist jumping in again after seeing this.

I felt this thing inside me, so sweet and warm... :( only if all girls thought like that, and all the guys would try to not be such a playboy...

Sorry but I'm quite feminist. gifted1, the impression I got from your comment was that if all girls were to value their virginity perhaps all the guys in the world would not fool around. But I really see no link, rather why do girls have to keep their virginity while guys don't have to?

I don't know if my view's narrow but guys can talk in public about losing their virginity like it's nothing while if a girl were to say she's no longer one, she gets thrown in a different light.

I just don't like the fact that women are still constantly under men when it comes to certain issues. And certainly, if we wanna talk about premarital sex it's only fair that the value of virginity is the same for both male and female. I think the objectification of women in sex is bad enough.

Sugar&Spice

11-29-2006, 06:46 PM

Ankh- I whole heartedly agre with you. It should be the same standard for both. But I don't think that gifted1 meant that its ok for guys to lose their virginity. Because from what I read, he said that he feels bad about losing his virginity, and wishes that he can change what he did. So I think he knows it stands for both parties. If I got you wrong gifted1 let me know.:D

As for my other thought. I have seen statements that reall render little to no respect for marriages. Now I really disagre with the fact that a person can just be with another person, and never commit to them. Are they really happy? I don't think so. Because if they were so happy, and wanted to be with eachother, what is the problem with making it legel?! Marriage is about commitment. And if you are unwilling to commit with the one you are sleeping with. Then how much respect can you possibly have for that person? "We have an agrrement with eachother." What a weak statement!

Yes a marriage can end uo in divorce, just like a relationship without a commitment can. But there are ways that you can limit that. If you get to know the person well, beofre marriage, without jumping on your back. And find out what kind of person he is on the inside, you will develop a bond and your marriage will florish. Marriages that break up because the sex was bad, lays bare the truth that everything that the marriage was based on, was superficial. If you base your marriage on things like sex, by saying it is important, it has to be good. Then the relationship won't last long.

Hert and soul was mentioned by jazlyn87 but was not understood. I understood it, and I appreciated it. For those wwho do not understand let me break it down in Lamen terms.

Heart and soul- When you are in love with someone because of the very being that he is on the insides. You love the way he thinks, and love the way functions. His heart is kind, and his very esscence is one of beauty. You see every flaw he has, but yet and still you love him. You love the way he can be supportive of you, and stand through the toughest problems with you. You bond with him/her in a way that is not physical but emontional, and phycological. This is what she was talking about. This is what will make a Relationship/marriage last/ not what he has between his legs and how he uses it. This is a very shallow way to look at a man.

As far as not caring whether a man gets along with yur family is rough. Usually your mother has more experience and has been through alot of what you're going through now. To say that her imput on a marriage is not worth listening to is rather silly in my opinion. The way a man treats his mother as well as yours, shows whether he respects a woman or not. Also unless you choose to alienate yoursel from your family, itwould be a good thing to see if they get along with your new man. Alot of times people feel they are beyond, advice. But when things go wrong, they return back to their family and friends licking their wounds.

I feel like this. If you want to have a obstructed view of marriage, and have pre-marital sex. Hey, knok yourself out. But for me, I will go in a way that will make me happier, and that will allow me to have a relationship based on a sturdy foundation, instead of a shaky one.

judes

11-29-2006, 09:47 PM

I don't know if my view's narrow but guys can talk in public about losing their virginity like it's nothing while if a girl were to say she's no longer one, she gets thrown in a different light.

yes, that's one of the viewpoints that must change to make it applicable to both sexes or scrap the virginity idea altogether and put both sexes on an equal footing.

As for my other thought. I have seen statements that reall render little to no respect for marriages. Now I really disagre with the fact that a person can just be with another person, and never commit to them. Are they really happy? I don't think so. Because if they were so happy, and wanted to be with eachother, what is the problem with making it legel?! Marriage is about commitment. And if you are unwilling to commit with the one you are sleeping with. Then how much respect can you possibly have for that person? "We have an agrrement with eachother." What a weak statement!

i said in my post that you can make it legal without being married. i'll say again, if you live together for three or more years, you have the same legal rights as a married couple and are seen as a common-law couple, same with legal unions. it is an affirmation of their financial ties and they are bound under the government to follow those laws. so they are in agreement with each other and are recognized under the law. so no, it's not a weak statement saying that they are in agreement with each other to be together and do not want to go through with a marriage ceremony for the sake of a marriage ceremony. it is not up to you or anyone to tell them whether they are happy or not. you may not be happy if you are under those circumstances, but these people are, and it's up to them. so i stress: it is completely legal. they're just not "married" for whatever their personal reasons are.

Heart and soul- When you are in love with someone because of the very being that he is on the insides. You love the way he thinks, and love the way functions. His heart is kind, and his very esscence is one of beauty. You see every flaw he has, but yet and still you love him. You love the way he can be supportive of you, and stand through the toughest problems with you. You bond with him/her in a way that is not physical but emontional, and phycological. This is what she was talking about. This is what will make a Relationship/marriage last/ not what he has between his legs and how he uses it. This is a very shallow way to look at a man.

all that is good and well when said and done, but nobody has said that it is what is between a man's legs that is the most important part of a marriage, only that for a good marriage, in my eyes, sex is a critical part in addition and in combination with these above ideas. (except i don't believe that psychological bonds are more important or significant than physical or emotional bonds, but that's besides the point).

you have a very romantic viewpoint of love, and i hope one day you find what you want. those ideals are not the ones that i would look for in a man. i don't believe in abstractions like "being" or "heart and soul". i believe a man is the way he is by the way he shows himself to be, by the way he presents himself, expresses himself, the way he interacts with not only the people he is in his relationships, but with strangers, and the way these qualities of him are not only to impress but are there because that is how he is.

i have friends who i love and connect with on those levels. i love the people they are, i love their thoughts, the way they are supportive of me, the way they communicate with me, the way they are, but i'm not romantically attracted to them and a large part of that is physical connection and missing that extra "spark". without that physical connection, that spark, all you have is that you are great friends that cannot progress into lovers. friendship ultimately is the foundation of making any romantic relationship last, but the physical attraction, the possibility of creating children, of enjoying the physical bond between two people, the intimacy that is created by knowing that you are the only person who is allowed to experience this together with him/her in such a way: that is what propels a friendship into a romantic relationship.

the physical aspect is definitely not the core of these kinds of interactions, but it is a major part and the distinction between the two. of course, this is just for me. i am currently in a long term relationship and although i used to believe that a relationship is built with different dynamics, i know that after experiencing so many events and growing together with my boyfriend, i cannot imagine a relationship that does not involve some kind of physical bond which makes my relationship with him unique and distinct from all of the other relationships i have.

and it makes me sad to see people try to cheapen this by saying that both of us should keep our legs closed or whatever until our wedding night, that we have no self control or self restraint. because i refuse to play by these holier-than-thou standards, especially when the creation of marriage was to rein in women so that they are not "damaged goods" when they are handed off from their families to their husbands and to make sure that her children are HIS children and nobody elses so that he will not be made a fool of. the institution of marriage also made the bartering and exchange of properties and goods easier through the woman's dowry. if you want to open any anthropology or sociology or woman's studies' textbook, you will see detailed examples and analysis of these ideas through the progression of many human societies. i choose to create my own standards of what a marriage should be, and not this distorted and flawed ideal that many people parade but cheapen themselves through their actions.

as an adult, i make my own choices and i follow through on the consequences of my actions. this is why i believe that the age of consent should be raised to a higher age so that teenagers have more chances to learn and to understand what they are getting into before they jump right in. to quote trudeau however, "the govenment has no place in the bedrooms of the nation", therefore premarital sex or no premarital sex, it is not our place to judge or to critique if they are two consenting adults.

As far as not caring whether a man gets along with yur family is rough. Usually your mother has more experience and has been through alot of what you're going through now. To say that her imput on a marriage is not worth listening to is rather silly in my opinion. The way a man treats his mother as well as yours, shows whether he respects a woman or not.

of course the family's input on a marriage is important, but to simply get married because your family wants you to or to discard a man because your family does not like him is also not good. i know quite a few asian men who marry "the right girl" that their family chose for them instead of "the right girl for them" that they choose for themselves, and many of them end up miserable.

what i am trying to get at is that you have to achieve a right balance. you have to hear everything from differing opinions, but in the end, it is your decision who you should be with or not and it is your decision whether you want to get married or not, because you are the person who is bound under the law to be tied to this person. therefore, people shouldn't rush into getting married and they should work hard at communicating and getting to know the other person before their marriage. and for some people, that may mean getting to know the other person on an intimate level, or that may not.

PS: it's "layman's views" not lamen. sorry it's just a pet peeve of mine.

gifted1

11-30-2006, 12:08 AM

I think judes basically covered the bulk of what I wanted to say regarding this topic.
But I couldn't resist jumping in again after seeing this.
Sorry but I'm quite feminist. gifted1, the impression I got from your comment was that if all girls were to value their virginity perhaps all the guys in the world would not fool around. But I really see no link, rather why do girls have to keep their virginity while guys don't have to?
I don't know if my view's narrow but guys can talk in public about losing their virginity like it's nothing while if a girl were to say she's no longer one, she gets thrown in a different light.
I just don't like the fact that women are still constantly under men when it comes to certain issues. And certainly, if we wanna talk about premarital sex it's only fair that the value of virginity is the same for both male and female. I think the objectification of women in sex is bad enough.

Perhaps, you didn't read what I quoted before I said that?

jazlyn87, omg, your post is very good! Especially when you said...

i always believed

" Your virginity is the best gift for your husband "

That was the reason why I liked the quote and thought it was kinda a warm feeling around me head :shy:

Yeah, Sugar&Spice, I totally regret it. You weren't wrong about it. I'll never do anything again till I get married.

edit: as a guy, I seriously am more on feminist side, so I don't know what you read wrong ankh.

Sugar&Spice

11-30-2006, 04:17 AM

Gifted1- I'm glad that I can be of help, and encourage someone young, and smart like you. Older ones already have their views, no matter whether it is right or wrong. So whether they find encouragment from what I say, I could care less. It is helping teens like yourself that is really the reson that I come on here to debate things like this. You'll find yourself happier with the conclusion that you just came to.:D

Lets not talk about pet peeves. I read some things, and views on these posts that have been the biggest pet peeves, for myself. But to continue to beat a dead horse and annoy myself, would be an even bigger pet peeve of mine. And that is wasting time.:rolleyes:

judes

11-30-2006, 06:29 PM

^ that is...if you believe in "right" or "wrong" when it comes to things like this. *shrug* which i don't. obviously.

i don't understand your comment about pet peeves. are you saying some views in these posts have been your biggest pet peeves? then yes, why do you return to address them if you're annoyed? that is confusing. so i'm guessing this is your way of saying that you're leaving the debate? what?

this thread is gradually going off topic so:

i find it discouraging to see people who don't have that much personal experience of the results of these kinds of interactions educating and sharing topics like this or who base their opinions on religion or a conservative upbringing then try to force other people to believe in them through guilt or "this is good for you". not to say that anybody here is doing that, but personal choice is key, because i know what it's like to be raised in a religious AND conservative household, and i thought like many of you about virginity.

i guess it's me saying something that's not going to be heard if you believe in one way or another. the ones who want to hear it have already heard and understood, the ones who don't will remain indifferent i suppose.

Sugar&Spice

12-01-2006, 08:56 PM

Yup! You said that your pet peeve is misspelt words, and I have stated that I have seen plenty of pet peeves on this thread. Since you are entitled to state that you have a pet peeve, I have stated that I have some too. And I'm entitled to that as well. I never said that I was leaving the thread, What I said was that I will lend some comments geered toward younger ones, with the hope that they can see the choices they have and hopefully pick one that will make them happy. I do't see the need to endlessly argue with ones the are older and set in their ways, that don't really want a debate, but instead they want to prove others wrong.

Who was that comment about people who have no experience on the matter, or try to use guilt to change people meant for?! Because just because I don't believe in alot of the stuff you stated dose not mean that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm stating this in case this is what someone might be thinking. And I will not indulge in any useless arguments. So that is what I meant by beating a dead horse. For any who do not like what I'am saying. That is their problem, as long as I'm not insulting anyone, I can voice my opinions whether anyone agrees or not. As it was stated in the begining of the debate form," Don't enter unless you are mature enough to handle serious debates." Well resulting in assuming people are using guilt, or by stating they don't have experience in the topic, because we don't like their views. Is not mature.To set the record for anyone, who might want to know, I will not entr into a debate unless I know what I'm talking about. And with a brief review of my posts, on this topic, ALL of them are meaningfull. And none of them are empty. And ALL of them lead to a specific point, and the stand that I take is pretty clear. All of the things needed in a debate. Or have I been mistaken?!

judes

12-02-2006, 05:28 AM

I do't see the need to endlessly argue with ones the are older and set in their ways, that don't really want a debate, but instead they want to prove others wrong.

well, same goes for you, but i have enough balls to admit i'm old and jaded and set in my ways. i don't need to prove anyone wrong though, because like i've stressed again and again and again. it's your own choice.

classic case of pot calling the kettle black.

Who was that comment about people who have no experience on the matter, or try to use guilt to change people meant for?! Because just because I don't believe in alot of the stuff you stated dose not mean that I don't know what I'm talking about.

huh? did i say anything of that sort?
not every comment i make in this thread is directed at you. i was attempting to move the topic back into what it was supposed to be about again.

it was in relation to my personal experience outside of this thread and i very clearly stated "not to say that anybody here is doing that", which can easily be interpreted as my attempt to return to the topic = "i do not intend to mean that anybody in this thread is doing that, only that i have seen it occur with a lot of my peers and people who are younger than me, so i wish that people would make their own choices instead of listening to some kind of authority (ie in my life it was from a religious and conservative household/background) regarding to this through guilt or pressure." unless you didn't read any part of what i wrote and only focused on the parts you find offensive to yourself.

if even more clarification is needed of my point, this is what i believe laid out explicitly: i believe that anybody who has not experienced premarital sex or any kind of long term relationship with the temptation of experiencing sex and/or has consummated in physical union whether in marriage or out of marriage, are the ones who have a better stance to speak on this matter. they are the ones who have learned from their experience and can better interpret and respond to this sort of discussion than people who have not experienced this at all. just like in an academic setting, if you have a problem and want to talk to a psychologist, would you rather talk to someone who has only HEARD and LEARNED about psychological studies or talk to someone who is an ACTUAL psychologist with real experience in the field of psychology?

Sugar&Spice, i have no idea whether you have any experience of the sort in this, so why would i target those comments at you? if i had something to say to you, i would say it to your face and admit i've said it to your face, not talk about you in a circular, general way and then pretend i didn't say it at all or pretend that it was an implication.

Well resulting in assuming people are using guilt, or by stating they don't have experience in the topic, because we don't like their views. Is not mature.

point in case, i have something to say to you regarding the above comment:
quickly jumping to conclusions, is not mature.

darkwinn

12-03-2006, 07:21 AM

I think this thread should die because theres really no point in argueing about any of this at all. The answer in the end is whatever u want it to be. I doubt anyone can tell u otherwise from a lot of the hard headed people in here. Its almost as if ur trying to disprove religion here and as we know everyone here has their own beliefs and customs for that.

But for fun ill entertain some of you. On explaining why u care.
How you were brought up plays a big role. Religion your parents whatnot. All of those come into play. If you haven't recognized societys role in your life then your blind. Do u think we really have an orginal thought? What is virginity to you? Its something that was created by the people around u to make it seem as if it the world. When instead if u look at the big picture its something that u lose when you do the things all humans have to do. Whether or not you love them or not. But don't take it from me ask yourself what love is? Is it real or not? Or is love a trick of the mind. Then from there ask yourself how much your virginity means to you.

If you lost ur virginity or something already and feel regret. The guilt is from your choice and you can't change that fact. The guilt was place there by society and your life/religion/parents. So really u create ur own guilt so deal with it. Why else do some people feel the guilt and the rest don't? Its because some people accept what they've done or they don't need to feel it. Whether or not u support this or not really doesn't matter cause its your life.

Im new here and i don't mean to make a bad reputation but sometimes people argue over the little things. Instead of saying bad or good and not understanding that the definition of bad or good is from their own minds.
Sorry to be frank. :wave:

KendoTiger

12-05-2006, 10:13 PM

Person 1: "In my past..."
Sugar&Spice: "Awww *hugs* I support you. Unlike them *points*, you're not stupid and old and too stubborn to agree with my point of view. They're wrong, we're right. yay!"
Judes: "There isn't any 'right' or 'wrong' in this topic`. We're getting off-topic - let's go back to a more philosophical or realistic point of view."
Sugar&Spice: "Stop insulting me!"
Judes: "I'm not insulting you, I'm talking about the thread in general."
Sugar&Spice: "STOPP InzulTING mE! *Insults Judes*."
Judes: "This is bs, I'm deleting everything so we can get back on topic."
--- Argumentative posts deleted ---
*Sugar&Spice moves on to another debate. Judes goes back to lurk the forums.*
Person 1:" Anyways..."
Person 2: "So yeah..."
Sugar&Spice: *reappears*
Judes: "OMFG! MORE WORK! >_<"

----------------------------
Anyways.

What happens if your husband/wife is a bad match when it comes to the bedroom? What if they have some fetish that freaks you out - or you just can't pleasure each other? Does virginity matter? Isn't it that out of everyone else in the world, you still choose them? Does that 'personal, intimate connection' have to be a physical one? Doesn't that seem rather trite? What if sex was only possible through marriage? Two people would get married just to fulfil their sexual urges, but then be trapped in a love-less marriage.

On a personal note, my girlfriend originally planned on remaining a virgin until marriage, but we've been intimate. She doesn't miss it at all. I love her with all of my soul, and prove it daily. She loves me with her whole heart too. Although being intimate changes our relationship, we've actually been more emotionally close since.

Back to topic:

Guilt is based off of one's perceptions of how society will view their actions, basically, a comparison of personal actions and ideals against the society they've grown up in. This is not only based on which society, but on personal experience in their family structure, as well as past society (religious/spiritual/textual views). A person will view their action as 'right' or 'wrong' based off of these views, and how they feel about themselves - how comfortable they are running "counter-norm". No one else can say that their actions are 'right' or 'wrong', merely that they do not coincide with their own views.

I find it incredulous to judge a woman's worth on her virginity, and inversely, a man's worth.

Sugar&Spice

12-06-2006, 03:38 AM

darkwinn- I actually like your attitude so go ahead and be frank! But here is some of my views on what you just said.

I really don't get what you mean when you ask,"Do you really have an original thought?!" Because I don't think thatpeople should have to be a slave to the times, or the society that they live around. I feel that because everyone is sort of winging it, and making their own deciions. I don't think anyone should be a slave to what is going on around them. Because that is when problems arise.

As for young kids, common sense and logic, dictates that they leave the sex talk in the background, and focus on their education. And save that until they are old enough to know what it means on a deeper level then just,"All my friends are doing it." I seems as if people don't understand that kids should not be having sex at their age. But that is my opinion, whether anyone agrees or not.

darkwinn

12-06-2006, 07:00 AM

Sorry to be unclear. By orginal thought i had meant the ideas were never ours. When we brush our teeth in the morning as i hope we all do :-) back in the old days people didn't know any better and still today as kids we don't know exactly why till we are told. By orginal thought i had meant that we never really come to these conclusions because someone had already told us what to think be4 hand such as society or likewise our parents. Even if we had an idea someone had already had it be4 us. Just like premarital sex i believe that religion puts the idea that its bad in our heads. If u think about where at first u started to think it was bad u begin to say hey maybe it was the media? Dad? Mom? God? Religion?

In school i was always taught that the teachers were right and that they were "pros" on subjects so i never questioned them at first but now u wonder how much influence do they have on my thoughts now? how many of these are actually mine? and thats what i mean by original thought.

What u said is true we shouldn't be slaves to our surroundings but how many of us know what our surroundings is doing to us? I know that i look at movies and media to know the current style or what is in or not. Also for common sense of young children back in the day it was fine to get married and have children at the age of 16. The only difference is back then it was usually cause society and the economic status was different but mostly it was never considered wrong until they start abandoning their children as with back then they wouldn't do that. Once again a product of society/media thinking.

In the end i agree it all depends on the person. Some may not want more out of life and just want to start a family early. I know people who are very happily married at a young age with children. I think it depends on what u want out of life. If u want a big house and lots of money as most people do then i say don't do it but if u want a quiet life when it doesn't matter if u have lots or little and u just are happy with having a roof,food and family and thats all u want out of life then go ahead.

xiaoting

01-02-2007, 06:03 AM

why is it wrong?

i'd like to hear your reasons for it.

is it because your church tells you it's wrong? because your parents tell you it's wrong?

Oh man. I started this thread, but I don't think I posted anything later. Ergh!

Anyways, yes, I am a Christian. But I feel that even without my faith, I can still say that I'm against premarital sex.

It's great that an unmarried couple loves each other, but to have sex before marriage is a bit risky. Wait, lemme reword that. VERY risky. What if the girl has a child? What if someone gets an STD? What if the couple splits up?

Yes, that's a lot of "what if's."
I think the worst part is when the couple does split up. The person has given up sex for another who eventually didn't love him/her. Saving it for a person you know who will love you for the rest of your life is a better deal, don't you think? Marriage is the best way to demonstrate the commitment and love between two people.
However, many people underestimate the significance of marriage, which is something I hate to see. Divorce, affairs, and all the others...you know. =/

I know many of ya'll don't agree with me, but I feel that staying on the safe side has better results.

Erm, yeah. I didn't read all 12 pages. I think it would take me more than 2 hours to read it all and to respond.

inlovewith.

01-07-2007, 06:57 PM

i always thought pre-marital sex was alright. Not against nor for it. Sitting on the fence i guess.

Some food for thought:

Just the other day I had the same discussion with my best friend and she said something that I thought was very different from what others have been telling me.

Pre-marital sex has been often grouped with words like STD, slut, pregnancy, AIDS, church, faith...you get the picture. what my friend said has nothing to do anything of the above stated words.

To her, pre-marital sex is like throwing away one's virginity into the dustbin. she would want to give hers to her husband on their wedding night as her wedding gift to him. It's just sooooo romantic. I would've never thought of my virginity in her way. I dun think many would have looked at theirs in this way.

venetta

01-10-2007, 07:44 AM

To her, pre-marital sex is like throwing away one's virginity into the dustbin. she would want to give hers to her husband on their wedding night as her wedding gift to him. It's just sooooo romantic. I would've never thought of my virginity in her way. I dun think many would have looked at theirs in this way.

WHat if they get a divorce after let's say, 2 years? Or maybe sooner than that. And then you realize that the guy you married was not the 'right' guy for you. What if the guy you marry the second time IS that right guy? The one you should have given your virginity to? The one who worth the gift more than the first husband? What if?

I'm sorry for being so negative, but let's admit it the world isn't as proper and beautiful as it once were. Or was it ever?

kirasuran

01-10-2007, 08:45 AM

well, venetta i think the whole point of marriage is "to be form an ultimate bond between two people who will stay together till death"
now , i know there are the divorces, where people THOUGHT they were right for each other...but the whole point is that you should make sure that you two are right for each other before marriage, so that there wont be such a mistake after marriage.
marriage is 'from' the bible, is it not? in there, it says that we should marry once, and not divorce.
i think we should all understand that before marriage, you should make sure the other person is right. that's where God comes in, (in a Christian relationship anyway) and He will give guidance on whether to make that decision or not.
and, from a guy's POV, reading inlovewith 's friend's comment, i think it is very true...indeed, a very simple, straightforward, but truthful way to put it.

fate_destiny

01-13-2007, 05:08 AM

Basically, regardless of anything, i believe Pre-marital sex is wrong..

You dun spice up your love with sex, because if you really love someone, you'll be willing to wait and it wun be boring even without sex. It's normal instinct i guess.

Certain people, regardless of female or male, will feel that love brings a couple closer, whereas others feel worse after doing it.

Guys can regret (if they do) but girls can't.

Girls do it and if they regret, there's no turn back. It's virginity for goodness' sake and i have heard from my friends that once a girl loses her virginity, the second time onwards, regardless of the person, is a easy thing.

But wadever it is, most of the time i hear from my friends that guys are the ones initiating.. so if that's the fact, when their girlfriends get too in love with them, they tend to sacrifice.. would it be correct?

In my context, sorry, but it's wrong.

pyre

01-24-2007, 10:25 PM

Sex is seriously overrated.

Not talking from experience though, but he way ppl carry on abt it, u think it was the most important thing in this world.

I do not believe pre-marital sex is wrong. People are free to live life the way they want. I was told that the act of love brings 2 ppl closer to one another, mentally and emotionally. However, I feel taht ahving sex with strangers is meaningless sex and that is wrong.

However, ppl who choose to wait are entitled to aswell. They should not condemn the ppl who chose not to wait and call them "loose", cos who is the immature one in the end?

Just because a person has sex after their first time doesnt mean they are easy (even if its with a new partner). Every individual has his or her own morals. They can make the new partner wait even 1yr b4 anything happens. I am speaking form knowing,, The girls I know, they dont give it up easily.

But I believe that a person should wait till they are definately sure that they are ready and it is with the person you love. I hate the notion that just because you are married ur husband thinks he can have you and that you have to do it right then and there on the wedding night. Things come slowly. So wait till ur in love and the person loves u back (and sex isnt a leverage to keep the relationship going) and I say its ok. ;)

tenshi_dew

01-26-2007, 06:00 AM

I'm neutral about premarital sex. I think if both people are willing and ready, then it's their business what they choose to do.

Anyway, I think if you choose to have premarital sex, then you better make sure it's with a person you trust and love. Because wouldn't your first time be the most memorable? So say 30 years down the track, I don't want to think back and regret my actions.

I don't think having premarital sex with a person necessarily means you have to stay with them a lifetime. To me, it's something intimate you share with another person. Just because it doesn't last forever doesn't mean it isn't special.

I just think it's up to each individual's morals and what believe is acceptable or unacceptable. My friend was brought up in family where sex before marriage is a big no-no, whereas for me, I think it's okay if both people love and respect each other.

xiaoting

02-12-2007, 08:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by inlovewith. View Post
To her, pre-marital sex is like throwing away one's virginity into the dustbin. she would want to give hers to her husband on their wedding night as her wedding gift to him. It's just sooooo romantic. I would've never thought of my virginity in her way. I dun think many would have looked at theirs in this way.
WHat if they get a divorce after let's say, 2 years? Or maybe sooner than that. And then you realize that the guy you married was not the 'right' guy for you. What if the guy you marry the second time IS that right guy? The one you should have given your virginity to? The one who worth the gift more than the first husband? What if?

I'm sorry for being so negative, but let's admit it the world isn't as proper and beautiful as it once were. Or was it ever?

Divorce - an entirely different topic than pre-marital sex. However, since you brought it up, I feel the need to respond. Divorce happens, but does it happen for the correct reasons? MANY MANY MANY people divorce over petty fights and other stupid reasons. Because divorce has become so normal for today's standards, it's becoming more and more frequent. Sometimes people today aren't communicating or overcoming conflicts and obstacles in marriage. Many have this bizarre mindset that marriage will be perfect and blissful, but they don't realize the reality behind it. IT'S TOUGH!

asianparis

02-12-2007, 09:00 AM

im sorry but i just have to put my two cents in it. yes virginity is important but for some reason im getting the impression that you guys are talking about why its only wrong for girls to have sex before marriage. i think thats just stupid (no offense). guys shud get the something we girls get for having sex. yet they are "the man" or "a pimp" if he "hit that last night". yet when girls do it shes labeled as a "slut" or "whore" for giving up. and the dumbest thing is its other girls labeling them. you dont see guys labeling other guys sluts or whatnot. by us girls saying oh shes a slut or shes a whore because she does this and that well then it just makes it ok for guys to look down on us and call us alla those things. someone bought up that alot of guys like a pure girl. but everyone's idea on a pure girl is different. and why is it only ok for a guy to not be pure but for only a girl to be?

btw i really cant stand people who preaches how important our viriginty is to us. i mean we know but by you telling us that, and preaching about it. it just kinda of like takes away our rights. like oh dont do this dont do that. your virginity is important. well its ours so why should you have a say in what we should do with it. everyones beliefs are different. i dont try to make you go have sex or preach everywhere that you need to go out and experience sex. so why should you tell me or whomever what to do with my body and virginity?

atomik86

02-13-2007, 10:08 AM

asianparis

02-13-2007, 01:34 PM

i think everyone is allowed to do what they want. its not really about having sex before or after marriage. but moreso, its focused on whether ur doing it for right reasons such as love or if the two ppl having sex are ready. perspectives change after taking that leap and sometimes young ppl arent mentally and emotionally ready for that kind of baggage. i hear ppl regret doing it too young or choosing the right person. so just keep in mind, there's grounds for being young, stupid, and in love. but that let's not be completely irrational and jump head first without thinking it over.

yeah i really agree with what you said about how its not actually about sex before or after marriage. and for those who thinks its wrong, is it because your religion, parents, ect tell you its wrong or do you have your own reason why its wrong other than that my virginity is important to me. i mean im not saying that this is right or wrong. its simply human nature

chrissiewoods

03-02-2007, 08:28 PM

i think it's anybody's personal choice to or not to... religion, culture and tradition aside, it's the person's choice to make... anyway, it happens when it happens and whatever will be, will be... you just have to be ready to face the consequences of your choices... whatever that be...

topghurl

03-29-2007, 06:07 AM

how can one be in a romantic relationship without any form of sex?
take away sex from a relationship and youre NOT a couple...youre "FRIENDS".

and on premarital sex being bad?...imagine marrying a guy and find out later that both of you are not sexually compatible, the guy wont be happy and he wont make you happy...imagine how much youre gonna pay for an annulment.

lil~jo

03-29-2007, 06:42 AM

hahaha...trust me you can have a relationship without sex.

You know when a person loves you for you and not for their sexual desires, when they will wait for you till you're married to have that special moment with you.

You'll feel special, that you're they're only one, and they're yours.
It'll be somewhat a refreshing experience for the couple on their wedding night.
Something that will tie them together closer.

It'll mean so much more to them, than being just a desire for any person.

If you cant wait for your partner that long, then it might not be worth the relationship, unless you yourself are in for just sleeping with them

topghurl

03-30-2007, 02:01 AM

SilentGriever

03-30-2007, 02:45 AM

I actually think that this question has no solid answer, because it really depends on the person's upbringing and their opinions on themselves. Do they really want to save their body for the spouse? But, how would one know if that person is going to be their "true love"? It is from intuition and own knowledge that one decides that, so, if they believe that this person is worth giving up their virginity for, then who are others to judge. It's really as controversial as abortion, but many do not recognize this, because it is essentially a person's own decision, and judging that decision or dictating what is "right or wrong" shouldn't be decided by a third party.

xiaoting

03-30-2007, 05:52 AM

thats like 1% of the male population...those who would VOLUNTARILY want to wait til wedding night...and usually the super religious ones...i hate religion...they give you inhibitions and make sex look like something bad...sex should be fun...

our conventional asian upbringing makes it worse...no wonder many people are confused and naive when it comes to sex and marriage.

im thinking more long term here...sex is a big factor in marriage
in my pov, you should be sure you guys are compatible and comfortable before getting married
thats why i also think a "cohabitation" time before marriage is good
hahahah WHAT?! 1% of the male population?! wow, if it really was like that, we'd be living in a world worse than the one we're living in right now. but, please, be realistic now, topghurl. there's no need for exaggerations.

and who says that sex is bad?! i'm christian, and i can say that sex isn't bad. i would just rather wait for the right guy. i don't want to sleep with a bunch of guys who aren't ready to commit themselves to a long relationship. i feel that marriage is the best way to confirm that. you're also making assumptions about a a group of people, which is stereotyping. i know many christians who have had sex but end up splitting up with their girlfriend or boyfriend. it's not a pretty sight to see.

ok, about your "cohabitation" thing...i disagree - with respect! don't bash me please =P
the reason why i'm against it is because of safety reasons. i'd rather not risk my virginity for someone unless i'm married to him. i like to play it safe. i mean, for all i know, he could have some kind of disease he doesn't even know about! it's just not safe, and i'm the type of person a bit protective.

gifted1

03-30-2007, 05:53 AM

If I can reform my opinion, I would do it. Maybe some of you guys read my earlier posts in this thread, but...

I have one question: Why is Premarital Sex that bad? (Azzy, if you're here, well dude, you'll have to respect me...)

I don't know, but girls/guys around ~ legal age have a lot of lust into sex. I don't know how to explain, but our libido really rages at a certain age. I don't know if 17-18 is the age for girls, but guys start early, like at 15~. So premarital sex is not an issue at all for these people. Innocent girls, innocent boys, party animals, they all do it... no matter what. If they really love someone, they'll be up for it. I just can't understand how you can seriously refrain yourself from doing it if you know that he/she is meant for you... (okay, some people can resist but..)

Religious people always try to get us away from sex since they make it seem bad, but what is BAD about it anyways? Of course, there's STD's, HIV, AIDS, etc. But it's meant for pure pleasure.

Not a lot of people thinks of risks when you're ALREADY up for it, not even religion or anything.

I'm not being based on anything or biased on opinions, but here it goes. I don't know on which Cosmopolitan (month) had a statistic saying that nearly 61% (or 51%?) of couples seems to be more attractive/in love/affectionate when they have sex occasionally. And another about 25% says that sex doesn't improve anything, and the rest is about religious/other reasons that sex doesn't work or they can't do it blabla.

thats like 1% of the male population...those who would VOLUNTARILY want to wait til wedding night...and usually the super religious ones...i hate religion...they give you inhibitions and make sex look like something bad...sex should be fun...
our conventional asian upbringing makes it worse...no wonder many people are confused and naive when it comes to sex and marriage
im thinking more long term here...sex is a big factor in marriage
in my pov, you should be sure you guys are compatible and comfortable before getting married
thats why i also think a "cohabitation" time before marriage is good

AND ABOUT this quote, I totally agree with this. Not a lot of guys would really really wait for the wedding night, and what happens if after that wedding night, the newlyweds are not sexually attracted? And it's true, sex sometimes do help a marriage and a couple. So yeah, how can you guys figure out if you guys are compatible and comfy together to live together... maybe forever? Cohabitation is a good idea, and trying to know eachother's lust in sex is also not a bad idea. I just can't imagine a couple going straight to the knot and realizing afterwards that they both suck in sex...

Sorry if I seem like a perv -.-, my point of view changed since I've met some ppl and got out of my innocent-boy-phase.

xiaoting

03-30-2007, 06:16 AM

gifted1, please read the one post before.

i've already explained the "religious people hate sex" thing. it's not true. how do you think we reproduce?!
also, we can't totally rely on statistics. you can't survey the entire world and some people may even lie in a survey. i've taken a statistics class. there are many disadvantages on percentages like that.

one more thing. MARRIAGE DOES NOT EQUAL SEX. sex is not required for marriage. i mean, ya'll said it - "it's for pleasure, it's fun!" but it's something that you can live without.

you get married, you have sex, and then you find that you don't like each other because of sex? what kind of relationship is that? just because of sex, your marriage falls apart. if you think your fiance isn't sexually attractive, then why get married to them? i feel that the personality is what captures the heart and that it eventually leads to sexual attractiveness. surely, you've seen a couple (husband and wife) - a "ugly" girl and a good-looking guy together or vice versa. that explains it all.

lil~jo

03-30-2007, 10:39 AM

if most guys cant wait...
and you're with those guys, you're the one who loses out.
All my guy friends respect the girl they're dating.
And mind you my guy friends are wanted by a lot of girls, but their loyal, loving and dont need the bed to make things work.

Hey, I'm christian and i want sex.
There prove ya wrong.
INFACT suprise you even more!
I'm a catholic! the most strict of all the donominations.

I just dont want to sleep around too much. Once you've given your virginity away, it seems so much easier to give it just to anyone!
And as I said before, to say the the guy you love ever so much, the one you've married, that you've saved this for him.

mmm....
Ohwel, if you want to sleep around your choice.
But generally a lot of the people who will stay by your side forever will prefer someone who hasnt slept around before.
Do you want to lose your chances in that fab girl or guy?

mmm...oh and the enjoyment thing?
Its actually for the sole purpose of having kids.
Not for enjoyment, its just that things have become warped over these years.
You dont respect yourself very much if you cant hold back from this temptation.
Infact you're kinda weak if you cant hold back.
haha....

mm...being kinda mean.
but well, you made me say it, cause you really dont know us christians.
Dont judge us that way man, then we wont judge you.

judes

04-01-2007, 08:59 AM

*puts on mod hat* i deleted some messages that were going off topic and let's refrain from using phrases like "people like to f*ck" or whatever. you don't need to be crude. it's not necessary for intelligent conversation.

*removes mod hat* just my own personal opinion, i completely disagree 100000000000x with this statement:

one more thing. MARRIAGE DOES NOT EQUAL SEX. sex is not required for marriage. i mean, ya'll said it - "it's for pleasure, it's fun!" but it's something that you can live without.

sex is pleasurable yes. sex is fun, yes. but there are other dimensions and aspects of sex that is different from a relationship without any kind of physical intimacy. it's hard to talk about these things by just saying "the act of sex" because sex extends beyond just actual intercourse, it involves physical intimacy and physical comfort and being joined physicall and emotionally whether that involves sex or not.

and who draws the line? is there a point where it's "ok" to stop because you are "saving" that part of yourself for your future husband? what about kissing, frenching, oral sex, manual sex, etc etc etc? human sexuality is so diverse and complex and so essential to our wellbeing that it's ridiculous to disregard it as just something "fun" and something that's not essential.

i believe we all crave and hunger for love, and one of the expressions of love is through the physical. just like, i love water, i can drink water all the time and be satisfied, but if i know that delicious mango juice or watermelon juice or pineapple juice is available, why would i not attempt to get it? why limit yourself to one bland choice when you can experience a variety of choices? (and i'm not saying this to promote multiple partners, but different aspects of physical intimacy). as long as you are safe, as long as you are practicing safe sex either through monogamy or through birth control.

you can have a great relationship without sex coming into play. but without physical attraction, without physical chemistry, without the physical urge and desire to come together and show that love, why would you want to get marred to them? you can stay friends.

sex is an essential part of a romantic relationship. i'm not saying that because "ooh sex feels good and i want sex" but sex and physical attraction is part of the glue that holds a relationship together.

sex does not equal marriage.
but sex plus trust, honesty, commitment, communication, etc etc etc equals a marriage. you can't take one important aspect out and expect it to still be whole.

that's just my opinion.

DannLionel

04-01-2007, 11:40 AM

As for me, we have no rights to judge what is right or what is wrong.
I mean, who are we to judge them?
Question on whether premarital sex is right or wrong, it depends on individuals.

As long as the couple are ready to indulge in premarital sex, i felt, why not?
However, every action comes with consequences...
So incase anything happen, both party have to take responsibility into their account.
To me, there isnt really a right or wrong statement.
This is a subjective question.

Just my thought though.

Sha

04-04-2007, 05:14 AM

From what I've come across, I think it all depends on the person you are and the person you're with.

Let me elaborate...

If you're with a Western guy (who isn't strongly religious and doesn't believe in waiting until you're married to do the deed) then it's more likely that sex will be a natural, and yes, expected aspect of a relationship. And I think that as society is becoming less and less religious as we go on, then this tends to become quite common and normal. It's actually more unusual for you to find a person who hasn't had sex and is over the age of 18. I remember in high school, all my friends were doing it, some got pregnant and it was even looked down upon for you to still be a virgin. Dumb, huh?

But I find that if you're with an Asian guy (unless he's very modernised and westernised) then these guys tend to wait til marriage before doing it. I know of one couple who waited til marriage to kiss. Not sure how they managed that, but they did. I think it's deeply embedded in our growing up to be like that and it's very much a part of Asian culture. The Asian people I know who have already had sex and aren't married have practically grown up in a Western country, have mainly Western friends and don't really retain those typical Asian values. Now I know these are generalisations and that there are always exceptions to the rule but this is what I find to be true.

So being an Asian girl myself and believing in waiting until I'm married to do it, I tend to not go out with Western guys cos the times that I've tried, it just didn;t work cos of the very reasons stated above. It's not that Western guys don't respect you or anything, it's just not part of who they are to be that way.

And like Joa said, girls don't wanna just give their virginity away. I've always believed it's easier for guys cos you guys don't have to worry about getting pregnant and the concept of being a virgin is almost uncool. And being a non-believer in abortion, I'm extra cautious.

I'm not Catholic or Christian, I'm Buddhist and I've been brought up to value my virginity and marriage. And if I can't find a guy who respects me enough to wait then it's too bad for him cos I wouldn't settle.

It's quite sad that the world has come to such a state that sex is seen as such a casual thing designed to benefit both parties when it's so much more than that. Sex can be beautiful with the right person, it's just some people don't wait to find that one person.

But really, it's up to the individual. This is my opinion and everyone has their own and it's your own body. Do with it what you will but don't hate yourself later if you regret it.

countess

04-04-2007, 08:50 AM

Some great points mentioned :). So, there seems to be much talk about society's values and how they've changed over time and between cultures/religion. I'll split my argument into three distinct sections. I understand how this topic has been pretty exhausted in some areas- so i will try to broaden it out and throw in some different ideas.

Sex and Society:
As an asian member of a western society, do i approve of premarital sex? Yes, to a certain extent. Judging by society's standards now, sex before marriage is no longer taboo, it can even be justified morally. Like Sha mentioned above- it is completely fine for most Westerners.

For the Asian society, i personally wouldn't judge my friends any different if they told me they had sex before marriage- as long as i think the reasons to do so were justified. So what are these reasons?
1. If you've reached that particular stage in a relationship and you're ready to move onto something (in my opinion) that is so pure and fragile between only those two people. I think at this point, the level of trust between the two people would have to be so strong, as sex is something that takes you into your most vulnerable state.
2. If you've considered the consequences, eg pregnancy, STI's, how other's would react.
3. If it is not against your religion.
Which brings me to the next point, religion.

Sex and Religion:
Following on from the post above, i agree that more and more religion is being overturned and discredited. Why is this happening? Why are the divorce rates in Western countries approaching that 50% rate? (i have no idea, but thats a whole different debate). But with those rough figures in mind, it's easy to understand why women and men are choosing to have sex before marriage. It's because the institution of marriage is not valued as highly anymore.

Just from a purely objective view in response to this quote from lil~jo

And as I said before, to say the the guy you love ever so much, the one you've married, that you've saved this for him.
mmm....
Ohwel, if you want to sleep around your choice.
But generally a lot of the people who will stay by your side forever will prefer someone who hasnt slept around before.
Do you want to lose your chances in that fab girl or guy?

Lets just say you decided to save up your virginity for that "one" person who you married. But unfortunately, you were part of the 50% statistic that got divorced. Wouldn't you feel even MORE jipped for having saved it all that time? Also, why does being a non-virgin ruin your chances of being with that fab guy or girl? If your boyfriend/girlfriend is thinking of dumping you because you're not a virgin- you seriously have to consider how much they like YOU for you, and not for your virginity.

In response to that though, religious people could also argue that their bonds in marriage are different from those of general society- because they have been blessed by God's love and will. I understand that because i was raised as a Christian, and for two people to get married in my church, they had to be more or less positive it was God's will. And YES, when i look around my church, the divorce rates aren't all that high. You could even say quite uncommon. Is this the reality of a Christian marriage? OR, are divorcee's just less likely to attend church because they are discouraged?

These are all just ideas that im throwing around, i don't have answers or anything, so feel free to expand and comment.

Personally, because of my Christian upbringing (not saying that i'm calling myself a Christian NOW), i feel like i shouldn't engage in premarital sex. Having said that, im not actually making the decision based on my religious beliefs. The main reason is the fact that i don't feel the need to yet. I'm NOT at the stage where i can look at the list of reasons above and say tick, tick, tick- no regrets.

Therefore, i think this issue should be decided individually. Do not be swayed by those who tell you "it is the biggest wrong- dont do it", or by those who say "sex is awesome- everyone should experience it before they get married".

mer0npan

04-09-2007, 06:02 AM

Firstly, I agree with what Judes and Countess said and I think they put it very eloquently.

To me, I think whether premarital sex is right or wrong is a matter of personal belief because everyone's environment is different and so everyone will have a different approach. Some may do it some may not. I don't think that we can just generalise and say that "NO! Premarital sex is WRONG" for everybody. As is demostrated by this debate, everyone is different. I don't think that we have the right to judge other people. I mean that's like saything that "EVERYONE must like cheese~!" :wink2:

In asian society it seems, the older generation probably still have the idea that you must be a virgin when you marry (though funnily enough this seems to mostly only apply to girls ...:dry: ) although between the younger generation especially those who live in a Western society, we don't really think that way.

Personally I don't have a problem with premarital sex. I know I'm not going to save myself for that special someone, because I'm not really looking for that someone. If I meet them well then that's that, I don't see the point in saving myself and just wait especially if I never really find that person.

judes

04-11-2007, 09:27 PM

i really like the points that Sha, countess, and mer0npan all put across, even though they may differ in their opinions. what is stressed ultimately is personal choice, and that's the biggest issue here for me. i don't believe in saving yourself for your religion, saving yourself for your future husband, or saving yourself because your parents said so...you should keep your virginity because you want to keep it, not because someone else tells you to keep it or to give it away. and even after you "lose" your virginity, it doesn't mean that you have to sleep around forever and if you have to be with someone all the time. you can still not have sex even after you've experienced it, if it is your own choice.

Sha's point about the difference between Asian/Western guys is a good one, because I believe as women, we can't say that "men are dirty because they want sex all the time". No, it's just a difference in upbringing, and that's an important point to understand. If you want to date someone who has similar thoughts and opinions, then date someone with the same background. I hate it when girls complain that guys are always pressuring them about sex when they are dating guys who are from that background.

responding to countess' post: i do agree that divorce rates among christians, or i can even extend that to certain asian groups, are particularily low. but the sad thing is, i don't see a lot of happy christian marriages where the partners respect and cherish one another. but sometimes, instead of getting a divorce, they are forced to stay together either because they can't get divorced, or for the kids. i have seen a few respectful christian marriages where they are perfectly happy though, and i admire them.

so once again, i just want to say that sex is important whether you wait for it after marriage or before marriage. people who use the excuse that sex is just animalistic and something dirty or only for procreation...they are wrong.

i am not supporting the idea that everybody should have sex before marriage. i am supporting the idea that it is your own choice whether you want to or not, and that regardless of whether you choose to have it before or after, it is so essential and important to a relationship that if you do not believe in divorce and you have a terrible sex life...you're stuck.

ghettosushi713

04-11-2007, 09:54 PM

RIGHT ON!!! PREMARITAL SEX IS A MAJOR NO NO
ESPECIALLY ON AN ASIAN SITE WE SHOULD RESPECT OUR BODIES!!!

girls- dont do it jus cuz the guy wnts to or cuz he wants u to "show u u luv him"

nd guys - dont pressure girls and dont get pressured to have sex urself

even if ur not a virgin anymore
think about ur future spouse
how would YOU like it if he or she was sleepin round
or messn round

wit somebody OTHER than u? hmm?
gross huh?

exactly
thats why sex should ONLY be done to CONSECRATE a marriage
not jus for pleasure
u jus cheapen sex
and u cheapen love

=)

judes

04-12-2007, 02:31 AM

^ ...did you even read anything in this thread before you posted? doubtful.

i don't even know why i bother posting anymore.

please read everybody else's argument against your position. for women being able to make their own decisions. and for men AND for women who CAN have sex before marriage if they so choose.

sex doesn't cheapen love.

vitaminjaychou

04-13-2007, 03:52 AM

im not against it and im not supporting it. sometimes you just cant control yourself haha. when the time is right then i say just do it if you want.

thenbagamer

04-14-2007, 03:08 AM

i think that as long as both people want to do it, its fine. as long as it isnt rape, its reasonable

lil~jo

04-14-2007, 08:25 AM

Mmm...

Well everyones opinions have been backed up well.

Everyone is different, and we all will come across different people in our lives who prefer different things.
It is just important for us to know how each of us will think so that each of us can respect each other inturn.

You might meet a person who wants to do it before marriage, or one who doesnt.
Just be prepared that each and everyone is different and respect their decisions.

haha...but I do leave the note...
In the olden days, the whole purpose of sex was for reproducing.
I know that someone in here WILL definitly say, "we're not in the olden days are we?"

But yeah, I just give one word of advice...
If you are one who falls inlove easily and one who does so many more times than just once...
Don't give your virginity that easily...
Sadly a lot of guys will talk about how you did it etc....
*You really dont want them to talk between themselves saying "I've had her etc"*

That is why I believe premarital sex can sometimes be really bad for the girl...
Its sad I know that us girls get the brunt of all the problems in this.
But it is true.
Whether or not a religious reason backs what I say or not, this is the common problem that I think girls dislike about this.
The world is not fair and does not treat each gender equally.
So I believe abstanence is good in this part.

mirumodepon

07-11-2007, 06:54 AM

well this is my point of view... actually it is no right or wrong... this is a subjective perception... for me... i dont want to have premarital sex, its not because its wrong, but i think that does it too much to give your virginity (woman) to your boyfriend?? i think if sex is kind of love impression, well, definitely i pretty against it... u have many ways to show your love to your partners even without sex... but its all back to the couple... if they think they have future in their relationship and they seriously think about the consequences... why they are so many MBA?? married by accident... most of them will not have happy life with their partner because they have not prepare yet... marriage is a huge thing... we have to think about it carefully.... so dont have premarital sex if u dont want to take the responsibilities...

alice_jjar

07-16-2007, 05:57 PM

I think that you're right in a way. Premarital sex is definitely not good but this is the modern world after all. The men might think it's prefectly fine to do so. But not for the ladies perhaps. But it goes in a full circle.

The men has to be experienced in some way before doing in with the girl so that he would not embarrass himself OR he can do it with some girl who is experienced. Is that right? But if everyone of the female in the world were to remain faithful and save their virginity, the men would not learn as well. This is what I mean everything come in a full circle.

You mentioned that sex is not a necessarily a display of love. I agree on that. There's many different ways of showing your love. I think the main objective for sex is so that you can reproduce.

But now, people use the means of sex to get pleasure. It's the modern world after all. But, if you look around, in more conserve families of religion, these people, after they have given birth to the amount of children that they want. They stop having sex.

This is because they are simply having sex in order to reproduce. Therefore, sex is not even needed in our lives unless we need it in that way. LOLs. BUT there;s always something call test tube baby. So, if my argument stands, where does sex stands now? LOLs.

baybexangel

07-27-2007, 11:55 AM

i personally don't believe it's wrong, as long as both people in the relationship have a shared understanding of what sex means to their relationship and to them personally. for instance, if one person believes sex is just for pleasure and can be casually had, but the other sees sex as a very sacred act, then the two should not be having sex (and probably shouldn't be together either). but if both see sex in the same way and are both comfortable and happy with it, i don't see any reason to stop them. it's the same with any other aspect of a relationship. there needs to be mutual/shared understanding and views on certain things

bawkbawkchicken

07-30-2007, 02:25 AM

premarital sex is like everything else on the planet. u make ur choice, n u receive the consequences. everyone's different, so it depends on each unique person to make their unique choice, which should be respected, because whatever happens, they will b responsible for it. :)

KawaiiPanda

08-25-2007, 01:55 PM

i don't find premarital sex wrong as long as both people are comfortable with it...... but i find it kinda wrong when girls who are like 12 go around sleeping with guys. thats a bit TOO young to have sex.

kliu117

09-13-2007, 05:03 AM

umm.. I think that everyone has their needs and we're only human beings right

so I don't think it's wrong, i think that it just shows that both people in the relationship can trust each other and idk. I mean if I had a hot girlfriend then.... I would obviously wanna......

you get the point

fznaxez

09-13-2007, 06:34 AM

for the girl - respect yourself first

for the guy - respect the girl's decision first

i believe that everyone has their own set of principles in mind. that also means each individual set of principles can be classified by another as right or wrong. just don't end up to find that you regret it.

[for example],

if you're in a religion, you'll be told not to have sex before marriage.
if you're in an occult, you'll be told to have sex as it's part of the ritual.

i'm not saying that you have to be in an occult or a religion before you can understand whether your set of principles is right or wrong. i'm saying that it all boils down to yourself, your conscience.

just think about it.. deep deep down.. do you think you're really doing the right thing? or are you just blurring that conscience when you want to have premarital sex? think whether you'll hurt the other person.. if you're not sure.. ask.

i always believe that every one has a choice of their own to make and it is up to them really. in general, if your choice does not hurt anyone (whether physically or mentally), it would most probably be alright.

rule number 1 - don't regret what you do
rule number 2 - don't betray your conscience
rule number 3 - don't hurt the other person just to satisfy your own pleasure

this topic is very subjective and can be seen differently by different people who are brought up differently.

the rules (given by me) are enough to let you decide and make a right decision.

kliu117

09-14-2007, 09:29 PM

wow, Fznaxez is dr. Phil now lol

I think that if religion doesn't allow it then you shouldn't do it and if family members disagree then they should talk it over and work something out

TheSuperOne

11-09-2007, 08:43 AM

i dont think it wrong, if both party agree to it, and had all precaution before doing it.

Fznaxez, your explanation is nice~ heh.

sandiago1988

11-11-2007, 02:24 AM

Does love equal sex? I think not. Love is a sacred thing and sex is but an icing on top of the cake. It is only natural that couples should only perform sex only after their marriage. Sex is but a way of expressing your trust towards your other half. Well, girls and women around the world should control themselves from submitting to their boyfriends as it might be possible break-ups will happen.

FreddyC

11-11-2007, 06:41 AM

Nothing wrong with premarital sex (with contraceptives), but there is something wrong about having sex with someone who loves you but you not loving them back. It might give them the feeling that they did something wrong or make them feel unwanted afterwards.

I'm not one for marriage anyway, I always stood by the fact that marriages are superficial and it's seen as a strengthening of relationships now (and in the past) by many. What you have to remember is, marriage can strengthen the relationship, but what made it fragile in the first place isn't resolved by marriage at all, the cracks you cover up and the dust you sweep under the carpet will recur.

shadow_whiteknight

11-12-2007, 03:18 PM

Nice explanation Shawn. I'm totally agree with you, everybody has their own believe, and we had to appreciate their choice.

But I personally dun think it's fine, not juz b'coz my religion, but also b'coz I think love dun need that kind of thing. If you love somebody it means you'll not ask anything from him/her to satisfying you. If you going out with your bf/gf juz for doing that, ya know..., and you broke up her/him juz b'coz she/he dun wanna do it, then dun call it love. It's more like obsession, dun insist ur desire to ur lovers.

dh144498

11-14-2007, 01:36 AM

if ur a person of the bible, then premarital sex is like a sin. and since im a christian now, i pretty much have to follow the rules. but one of my friends from school believe in "co-existence". he doesnt believe in marriage and he lives with his gf and pretty much do it everyday. XD. anyways marriage isn't really a requirement in today's society, especially in the U.S. you'll see lots of couples who aren't married who live together.

laruku

11-19-2007, 07:44 AM

Please note that this is a debate forum. If you would like to state an opinion, feel free to do so. But please also back it up with proper reasoning.

All posts that states only an opinion without elaboration will be deleted. If you agree, say why and what do you agree on, and bring others reasoning down if you want. If you disagree, do the same thing.

rachipoo

11-22-2007, 05:08 AM

im going to be really really straightforward here but why would a guy buy a cow if he is getting the milk for free....if he thinks having sex will bring youse closer together then dump him...
but ..
some ppl say "try before you buy".....which i kinda agree on coz financial issues and sex problems such as inability to conceive are main reasons why ppl breakup. If you do it after marriage it may kinda feel weird coz it will be ur first time and this man /woman is the person ur gonna spend the rest of ur life with if you mess it up or have no idea wat to do...so you kinda wanna get experience in that sector..:brows:

jazlyn87

11-22-2007, 05:13 AM

i still feel that love plays a HUGE role in a relationship. there are so many more elements to a relationship and sex should be the last one. imagine if you have done it before , then would your husband/wife be the special someone anymore?

you may have given your heart out to an ex before but your heart can heal and love again but if you give your virginity away, can you get it back?

xanimeotakux

11-22-2007, 08:03 AM

i think premarital sex is okay. as long as this relationship between two people are not based solely on sex, then i think it's ok. "normal" relationships usually start to have sex after they believe that they love each other. other relationships, on the other hand, only want sex.

as long as you're having protected sex, then that's great.

for me, i just don't think that preserving your virginity is really that important. it's the girl's choice whether she wants to or not, and i don't think a bible or something else should make her choice for her. sure, some people might think preserving your virginity is precious and you should only have sex with the person you truly love, etc.etc.etc.

but is sex really wrong between two people who think they're truly in love, and have protected sex? i don't see any bad things about that.

FSUTan

01-14-2008, 08:34 PM

I believe that as long as you take responsibilities for your actions, sex in general is fine. I do think that one should be mature enough both physically and mental before making a decision. Irrational behaviors should be looked down upon, but even in the case where two people have a mutual attraction and are both wise enough to make an agreement, I think it is still fine (note: just because I think it's fine, does NOT mean I do it myself).

Akira

01-23-2008, 02:37 AM

I dont think Premarital sex is appropiate
Well personally I think its valuable that a future partner has preserved his/her viginity for the one he/she wants to spend the rest of live with.
FSUTan you said that we should be mentally and physically ready
Well the brain is only fully developed at 25 :-) so yea

I think u should reserve but this is view is coming from a
conservative/asian/christian p.o.v! :excited:

leperkong

10-19-2008, 03:45 AM

i am against premarital sex
marriage is a really important thing and i think that if you truly loved someone, you could have the ability to wait until after marriage to have sex
it's kind of showing the other person how much you really care that you would wait until you were married

ugh, i'm not really making enough sense

i guess it also depends on how importantly you value marriage

S0gGyBanANa

10-28-2008, 11:52 AM

Whats wrong and whats right? who makes the say? Me? You? Him? Anyone? Or rather everyone!! Everyone has their own set of values and ethics and as long as they follow thier own principles of living they are not wrong! Just because we cannot understand someone else's way of life doesnt mean he/she is wrong right?

premarital sex is not wrong. Both parties must be matured enough to think for themselves when they do such a thing. No one else can bare the consequences for them.

Yes, it is not a way to show love but it is part of a healthy and fun relationship. It spices up the life and add in new excitement for the couple. Sex is not a dirty word and so i believe there's no need to avoid talking about it, just that the details can be skipped... hahahhaaa... well discussion in private would be good though... not openly to EVERYONE... hahaha...

valera

12-03-2008, 09:19 AM

i used to think that i'd save myself for marriage
that virginity is important
my religion also prohibits sex before marriage

but then again when i met this guy, i don't think like that anymore
even if one day we will not be together, i think it's worth it to give myself to him
it's not whoring
it's not that i sleep around with different guys

chiru

01-10-2009, 07:19 AM

I am a naturally lazy person. I also get embarrased easily. If you are wondering why this has anything to do with premarital sex, then I will tell you. xD

I can not imagine myself being naked and having a guy come on top of me to do his business. It is just really weird. And, honestly, I would not want to shave all my body hair just so he could do it without me being embarrased.

Which is generally why I probably will not have sex until marriage....xD

I do not really have a religion, and all my morals were taught by my mother. But she also taught me to find my own way and to be independent. I am waiting, because I am a lazy person who does not want to shave, and also because I do not want to just give myself up to some guy who will only be there for a limited time. I agree with a lot of you guys's opinions about guys having the upper hand. A guy can do it one hundred times and be okay. But if a girl does it even ten times she is a whore.

HangPHAMee

01-10-2009, 09:45 PM

There are so many responses, it's really hard to read them all XD

Ok so I guess I can give my opinon now after having read some XD

When I was a little younger I also believed the same as xiaoting, but as I grew a little older I realized it's not that it's bad or anything, much like everyone says it depends whether or not the two people really care about each other. Because if one person hurts the other it's not because they'll regret it cause their virginity it gone, but because they're emotionally in pain.

A girl I know lost her virginity to her boyfriend and they had promise rings and they said they were going to get married and spend the rest of their lives together. In the end, she cheated on him and got with some other guy. Now her ex-boyfriend can never trust again. And I remember one time she called me crying because her current boyfriend broke up with her saying that he can't be with her cause she's not a virgin and he supposingly "loves" her. Then she tells me that she regrets ever doing it with her ex. And it just made me think, "How can you say that? After all you've been through, times spent together, words exchanged." She may not have had more than one partner, but her actions and what she did tempts me to label her as a whore.

Just because you lose your virginity it wasn't because you're a whore it's cause you really cared about someone at some point and the other person did too.

I believe there's a difference between "making love" and "sex". One is that two people really care about/love each other. Sex is just like, bang bang, and then whatever, as if it's something casual.

So i guess all in all, I don't see anything wrong like most others who posted, as long as both people really care about each other.

jayn

01-23-2009, 05:29 PM

The church teaches us that the body is to be kept pure and holy, not for fornication because it's God's temple.

Personally, I won't say that pre-marital sex is WRONG. That word is too strong. For me, there is no black and white in this matter. That is a decision one has to make on their own. I would prefer someone to do something because he/she wants to do it and not because she has to do it. This applies to things like chores and other jobs necessary for survival. Of course, some of you may not agree to this but I think that when you do a chore, even if you don't like it, but if it's for someone you love, or it's to make this world a better place, and these reasons are important to you, then you do it, right?

And yes, I agree that having sex is not the only way to show your love. You could also make a card or compose songs for your gf/bf :bleh:

Well, getting back to the point, I would prefer to keep my virginity until I get married because it's the most precious gift you can give to your spouse. Once you lose it, you've lost it. However, I won't judge those who have pre-marital sex because I was not in their shoes so I won't know for what reasons they did it or if there was any reason at all. Act according to your conscience.

Another thing, I think that guys who only care about girls' virginity are not worth the while. No matter what, I believe everyone deserves a second chance, even though it's painful. I, myself, struggle a lot in forgiving others but because I want to be free of anger and pain, I know that I have to or it will eat me from inside.

grandeurdedmajor

02-01-2009, 04:48 AM

And yes, I agree that having sex is not the only way to show your love. You could also make a card or compose songs for your gf/bf

Hey im sorry but this kinda ticklish! heh heh. It's 2 different things! I think whether or not you are against it, sometimes it's just a matter of self-discipline and the environment you live in.

Diff counterparts of the world, people have different mindset. While some perceive pre martial sex as unethical, others deem it as something that elevates your relationship (if you're on a serious one, not one night love(stand)).

Well, afterall, i agree girls are really at a disadvantage. whether or not you're a virgin, I know they're labeled in the society as of now, from where I am at least. But gradually people are trying to remove the stereotype, the blue print in their mind..

because I believe it is kind of unfair that the girl once gave away her virginity because she loved the guy so much and ended up being labeled as a whore? guys out there should be sensitive. if you truly are looking at a prospective wife and want her to be 'untouched', make sure you're someone who did not sleep around prior to that! and better still, make this clear or try to find out before you proceed further in the relationship with a higher level of commitment and end up regretting/breaking one another's heart.

well, afterall, choices are all we have! whether or not pre-martial sex is seen as a bad thing, its all in your mind. I feel that there ought to be no 'correct' answers to this because political/relationship/religion/cultural all take different stands at times. You cant satisfy all parties! :D