The Obese/Overweight-are we giving them too much support?

[countess]

I've always had this confliction whenever i talk about my views on obese and overweight people. I understand that this issue is quite sensitive in many ways but it doesn't mean we have to avoid the subject altogether, after all if we look around us, obesity is obviously a serious problem.

First of all, my personal view of overweight people is not exactly a positive one. They crush the crap out of you on public transport, take up two seats when they pay for the price of one, AND, have you ever seen a fat person NOT eating in public? I also see them as being weak in the aspect of self control, it's mental. Having said all this, i understand that in some cases its purely genetics and are illness related but iam sure many obese people out there are just eating themselves to death.

When i talk about disliking fat people, many people think that iam ignorant and inconsiderate. People are entitled to their own opinions, iam fine with that. they will also bring up the "anorexia" examples, which does link with body image and is a sensitive issue. However, how many people have died of anorexia/bulimia compared to those of heart failure and diabetes? There is no need for comparison...most of us live in the USA and Aus...we know that diabetes type 2 doubles every 15years due to being overweight and not eating well!

What has enraged me is the media's take on the issue, people seem to accept the fact that stick-thin is no longer attractive because it damaging to your health. but these days i see current affair programs interviewing obese and overweight people and giving them a chance to tell their story...fair enough, we live in democratic countries BUT the obviously unhealthy, 50kg overweight told her "sad" story of getting looks from people in public and not getting certain jobs...etc The media is taking the "be comfortable with who you are-even if if means not being able to walk for 5 mins" approach. Seriously, we don't have to go from one extreme to the other...

Celebrities who are fat and flaunt it...sure they are giving a "love yourself, don't go anorexic" message, but the result is "love yourself, die 4 times faster from obesity". I think we should watch how we are educating one another about weight these days, people will get the wrong idea, especially kids/adolescents.


If anyone has anything to say on this issue and shed some light onto my hopefully-not-too-narrow thoughts, then your welcome to go for it. BTW, i don't hate fat people, this is not an attack on fat people..just something that i always think about, so please don't get offended.

[pyro_sign]

i do see where you're coming from, but if like.. as you said, if there are some mentall illnesses and all that tralala that play a role in obesity/overweight, then if we look down upon them and are all like "yo fatty get outta my way before i eat yo food" then wouldn't that drive them to eat more?

:/
i think mainly the problem is not the support, but the motivation to go out and do stuff. like yanno all those commercials ("verb -- it's what you do"), they're not all out there and aren't as frequent as BK and Micky D commercials. i do think that they are overly&somewhat wrongly stressing the idea that obese is okay (like in those talk shows you've mentioned) and there just needs to be more influence to go to jennycraig's or something.

yanno before your post i would probably be all like "it's okay to be fat" but now it's like.. you've opened up my eyes a little bit. :x hahaha.

[midori]

I think America entered in a phase of sympathy for these people. It's really sad to see that the countryn is battling problems such as consuming too much food while others are battling starvation. When we put everything in perspective, these people talking about their "problems" should really think about what they're saying.

[Vicluva]

I see no reason why overweight individuals shouldn't receive as much, if not more, support than they are getting now.
If obesity is such an epedemic, then what good comes of covering it up with a blanket and pretending it doesn't exist? You know, my class was just recently doing a bit on analysing news segments like A Current Affair and Today Tonight shows and figuring out what the program is really trying to say when they do stories. I find it hard to believe that any program would endorse obesity, especially as an alternative to anorexia. Are you sure, when they do stories of 50kg overweight women, that they're on the woman's side?
On the other hand, to what extent does a person have to weigh before you consider them fat? I'm assuming your discomfit begins when the person is "officially" overweight (let's say, according to BMI calculators)? There are a number of factors why people of 2005 generally aren't as slender as their counterparts of a few decades ago. There's more work requiring sitting down in an office for hours, more pressure in schoolwork (in certain countries), less time to cook meals and thus more people turning to fast-foods (I'm talking mystery frozen products, not just the fried kind)..etc. There's just not enough time to spend all day perfecting your abs.
Of course, being overweight, nevermind obese, is just as bad as being anorexic and that's why, if the media's shedding more and more light on it, they have my support. However, I would like to point out that in your first post, the line AND, have you ever seen a fat person NOT eating in public? was completely stereotyping overweight citizens, and it's inevitable somebody will be offended, so, perhaps be a little more careful in your wording next time as to not contradict yourself in a topic that you started.

[Shay]

I don't think we can look at people who are overweight and obese and just narrow it down to their "lack of self control". There are so many more issues than that (as addressed by Yue) that you have to consider... it's unreasonable to adopt such a negative attitude towards them as a whole group and generalise like that when you don't even know their individual situation and why they may not be in a healthy weight range. And when it gets down to it, not everyone is educated on why they should maintain a healthy weight range. Hell, sometimes it's not even one of their main priorities! Not everyone has the time to be able to think about that and do something about it. Not that I'm saying that it's fully not their fault, but I just think that there are so many other things in society to consider.

The whole thing with not getting a job when you're overweight/obese, or getting looks from other people etc...is that it's discrimination!! Its not right that it's okay to discriminate against overweight/obese people when that kinda discrimination is exactly the same as racism or sexism (when you think about it)!

I realise all the health issues that extend from being overweight and obese...and I really do see that point about it affecting your health and thus it being important not to promote being overweight or obese, but I think that it's still really important to send across that "loving yourself" message, because it's definitely not from hating yourself and your weight that you strive to change (at least in a healthy way - meaning not through anorexia etc). It's definitely what you said though countess - about educating everyone on why it's so important to be eating and exercising healthily.

And I agree with Yue (long time no see btw Yue! lol) that...that first post is definitely... quite... offensive. I know you dont mean to be countess...but i guess it's just important to keep in mind that there are so many other issues. And dont you think that "disliking fat people" is a bit extreme?

[countess]

In response to your feedback i would like to clear up some things.

Firstly, when i said that i disliked overweight/fat people, i meant that i didn't share approval on their overall wellbeing. But it didn't mean that i called them names or ever tried to humiliate them in any way. It's just that i can't bring myself to empathise with some of them; the ones who obviously aren't trying to make an effort to get healthy or even worse, the ones who in a way are promoting it. i think, for those people, they are simply denying the truth and hiding under the protectiong that many people and the media are giving them.

The media getting behind this problem is something that i support, but only if they portrayed correctly. I think the main reason why i started this thread was because of the frustration...people aren't getting the message-and maybe it's because they're getting the wrong messages to begin with. I would support a program that maybe documented the story of an obese person and portrayed it in a way that suggested "health first", and at the same time also show the challenge and difficulty for someone like that to regain their health.

Discrimination over someone's weight is definitely out there in the workplace and in many social situations. However, we must face the reality, if you were an employer, would you hire an overweight/obese person over a healthy person for a job? I agree in office jobs and non-physical jobs there may not be a difference, but what if you wanted an air hostess, a labourer, a baker...you would want to get the most out of what you pay them for right?

I haven't been in the shoes of someone battling the obesity/overweight problem and it would be difficult to predict the circumstances. I think the main problem i have with it is just the concept and the situation we are in now, and the future.

[lattae]

I think you are making an generalisation when you say obesity=unhealthy.

I personally know more "healthy weight" people who have heart attack, stroke, cancer etc than I do with those who are obese. That's the problem with statistics... The results depend on the group you are sampling, and whatever conclusion that we make on the survay results can be skewed by the perceptions we have in our minds. It's how you choose to see the matter. I am not discrediting the statistics, but rather, I want to say that statistics are NOT everything.


You're making sweeping statements when you say "have you ever seen a fat person NOT eating in public?". So you mean thin people don't eat? I've seen more thin people at the eat-all-you-can-buffets around where I am. What does that say about these "normal"/"thin" people?

The thing is, you are not even treating obese people with the kind of respect you should have for another human being. From your tone, being fat degrades the person to animal existence is that it?

It is my guess that you've never been horizontally challenged. You probably cannot imagine the kind of discrimination and trauma starts all the way from childhood. You walk into school/playground and other kids start calling you fatso and all kinds of other games. They don't want you on their team... they shove you around. This is not some drama serial plot. It's the kind of reality fat kids face.

Since you trust survey so much, it is recently surveyed in my country that overweight kids have a significantly lower self esteem with all that discrimination around. Can you blame them for growing up into adults who don't believe they can take charge of their lives?

In my country, be such a loving paternal state, the government insists that all who are overweight undergo exercise and diet programs. Hence in schools, other kids are having their recess (soft drinks, snacks and what nots...) the over weight kids have to go and run around the field. They don't even get the much deserved break after long hours of studying. Teachers report of obese students having greater tendancies to be unable to concentrate because they didn't get their little energy boost like other kids. These kids are growing mind you! Some schools are a little more "humane", the obese kids get food, but they need to purchase them with coupons, so while others around them feast on tasty snacks, they get the plain stuff. They are labelled different. Being in the weightloss program is like another reason for others to jeer and laugh at you.

I don't know man... It may be healthier for them, but the damage it does to their self esteem. Besides, in the same study, it's found that most kids do not lose the weight anyway (suggesting that the obesity it's highly genetical). AND to top that off, the cases of anorexia is higher in kids identified for the program than those who are not. These kids are so desperate to get off the label of being fat, that they stop eating altogether.


My stand being, yes, promote healthy living, but treat the obese people just as you would with others. Discrimination of horizontally challenged people is as good as discriminating another because of race.

[ankh]

Basically lattae has said almost everything.
I would like to stress that being overweight does give the individual a lot of emotional stress when it comes to the public opinion.
Most people confer immediate judgement to overweight people: if you're overweight means you're unhealthy, less efficient and inferior.

And I don't think that many people are actually advocating piling on the pounds more than trying to get people to lose them.
Yes being overweight is unhealthy but look at the massive quantity of slimming ads and products out in the media and market. And how celebrities stick so stringently to diets so they don't look fat.

You say that fat celebrities flaunt their figure around.
I see it as them trying to discourage aneroxia and I don't think that will result in kids thinking that fat is good.
The social pressure leaning towards "skinny is good" is more powerful.

However, we must face the reality, if you were an employer, would you hire an overweight/obese person over a healthy person for a job? I agree in office jobs and non-physical jobs there may not be a difference, but what if you wanted an air hostess, a labourer, a baker...you would want to get the most out of what you pay them for right?

I don't agree with you.
Why do you think that overweight/obese people would not be efficient in their jobs?
For jobs like models, air stewardess etc I understand that image is important and so is weight. So I'm not disagreeing with you on the abovementioned jobs.
You listed bakers and labourers as examples. So if an obese person is a baker, he/she would be less efficient compared to a skinnier person? Bakery is a profession that speaks of talents, so it's not how much you weigh that determines your efficiency.

You're still giving me vibes of discriminating the overweight.
And in response to your question, no we're not giving them too much support. Rather we should learn to look at them with a fair eye.

[merenwen]

To add on to what lattae and ankh have said, yes, your post smacks of discrimination to the overweight and in fact sounds a little... condescending, shall we say.

I understand that this is a very controversial and subjective topic, but the impression I get from what you've said is that you've never experienced the pain of someone who's been treated badly or differently because of his/her weight. A person who's overly thin usually gets commiserating and compassionate treatment, an overweight person usually gets left out, teased etc. And you're advocating giving overweight people LESS support?

I say this because I myself am overweight, and I know exactly how it feels to be given those stupid condescending looks and assumptions from people that I just have "no self-control" or that "I'm bound to be a big eater" - and I'm 70+ kg with a height of 169 cm, a far cry from the really obese category. I used to be a normal, healthy, fairly slim girl of 50 kg. But even then I got people taking digs at me because their idea was that I wasn't slim enough for the celebrity ideal, in a world where people consider J. Lo and Beyonce fat (believe me or not, there are such people).

I became bulimic when I was 19, and for THREE whole years wasted my life throwing up my food, popping diet pills, laxatives, sticking fingers up my throat. You're probably going to say "I deserved it" or something like that, since I just "chose" to be bulimic. But I had been happy with myself, until other people came and taught me to be dissatisfied with myself - and reinforced that by always giving my slimmer, "prettier" friends preferential treatment.

I saw a psychiatrist after 3 years of torture and now I'm cleaned up, but the damage was done. Because of my binge eating I went up to 70+ kg (though I'm trying to get rid of it the healthy way - exercising), my esophagus lining was already badly damaged, and even now sometimes, when I feel too full, I still have a compulsion to throw up. All this merely because I wanted to conform to the ideal that others had set for me, not what I wanted for myself.

I'm pretty happy with myself now, and I've learnt to handle the insults and derisive glances, but I shudder to think how many other normal, thin girls there are out there who are forcing themselves to go through what I did. I don't think the media is glorifying obesity, but rather, I welcome it that they're raising awareness of obesity - maybe now the fortunately slim people will learn to be more sensitive to the possible causes of their obesity. not every fat person is fat because of a simple lack of self-control. The issues go much deeper than that.

[KendoTiger]

Ever watch the movie "Love on a Diet" ?


Anyways ~ let's outline the points:

Genetics:
You can't deny that a large role in very fat people is genetics ~ not only the predisposition to gaining weight/inability to lose it, but the change in metabolism. On my father's side (I'm part white), nearly everyone is overweight ~ generally a little over the "fat" but not "whale" category. He had a six-pack until I was four, then he gained close to a hundred pounds without changing his eating habits. So yeah ~ I would definitely agree that there is a strong genetic influence to people's weight. Although my mother (full canto) side are thin, I'm trying to ensure that I keep from becoming fat, precisely because genetic predispositions do not govern whether or not you become fat - only how likely it is based on your actions.
Yet, when you look at the general population ~ the majority of those young kids getting fat have no history of genetic effects on weight. It's sad to say, but in the US, there are a LOT more fat kids than there are even in the preceeding years. Why? With a shift towards longer working hours, the availability of fast food to quell the cries of a baby is much more appealing. Then again ~ there are other reasonings.

Emotion/esteem:
I'm sorry, but being fat carries negative sexual connotations ~ I'm happy for you if you have strong self-esteem and love your own image, but it's not only unhealthy, but it won't turn heads when you walk down the street.

Health:
Yes, there are anorexic people. Yes, it's terrible and unhealthy. Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about if you say that anorexia is a larger danger to the general population (specifically the us) than excessive weight is. Although anorexia is life-threatening, it is far less widespread than obesity (look at the government censuses on weight); obesity is also life-threatening, due to the greatly increased chance of having a heart attack/etc (proven medically), and degrades quality of life even without immediate health effects (less attractive, harder movement, increased cost of clothes, increased food budget, etc).

So ~ to sum it up: being fat is stupid ~ its unhealthy and degrades the quality of your life. Can you do anything about it? Yes, you can. Genetics and other factors govern only so much ~ it's up to you to get up off the couch and excercise, push yourself with diets, and stay motivated. Give up on becoming healthy, resign yourself to your flab, then you have no right to complain about anything I say about you.

Honestly, I think that if you're going to bitch about something (ie - keep complaining that you're fat), do something about it, or shut up.

[seaweedpatchkid]

So ~ to sum it up: being fat is stupid ~ its unhealthy and degrades the quality of your life. Can you do anything about it? Yes, you can. Genetics and other factors govern only so much ~ it's up to you to get up off the couch and excercise, push yourself with diets, and stay motivated. Give up on becoming healthy, resign yourself to your flab, then you have no right to complain about anything I say about you.
That like...totally went against everything I was taught in preschool. That's like saying..."Don't complain that I'm calling you ugly if you don't wanna go have plastic surgery to change it."
Or like..."Don't complain that I'm calling you stupid because you're blonde."
But Amen to what lattae said. Statistics AREN'T everything. (I'm taking stats in college and I hate it).

[narniapooh]

So ~ to sum it up: being fat is stupid ~ its unhealthy and degrades the quality of your life. Can you do anything about it? Yes, you can. Genetics and other factors govern only so much ~ it's up to you to get up off the couch and excercise, push yourself with diets, and stay motivated. Give up on becoming healthy, resign yourself to your flab, then you have no right to complain about anything I say about you.
Honestly, I think that if you're going to bitch about something (ie - keep complaining that you're fat), do something about it, or shut up.

I agree with what you said in a lot of aspects. Most people CAN do something about it...however let's remember that there are exceptions out there that genetics plays a huge factor in.

However, I wouldn't say "being fat is stupid." Stupid compared to what? Sure it's unhealthy and unsafe, but so are a lot of other things. We shouldn't belittle those who aren't as lucky as us to have high metabolism, etc.

Anyway in general, no, I don't think we're giving them too much support. Sure, you might say that our media is so focused on people being thin...but I think most people know that that image is unachievable to most. Being obese is unhealthy, by the way. Sure there are a lot of peple that aren't healthy that AREN'T overweight but those that are obese still undeniably unhealthy. Obesity just increases your risk for heart disease, etc. So being obese basically makes you MORE unhealthy.
Btw addressing the anorexia factor, a lot of people affected by that are not motivated because of the "stick skinny" image they see on TV, but because they are just struck with a mood that says "I'm not hungry." They're just..not hungry a lot of the time, not consciously trying to become thin.

[sagara0510]

being fat is stupid... being fat is stupid...how exactly does that work?

being fat is unhealthy... that works... being fat is unsafe... sure that works too... but being fat is stupid.. nope i really can't seem to figure that one out... hell i must be fat then cos i'm stupid! duh!

exercise helps... dieting helps... but... exercise doesn't necessarily make you skinny... it'll keep u healthy but not necessarily slim you down. i know people who go to the gym everyday... work out everyday... jog everyday but they are still bigger than me... and yet they are MUCH fitter than me

and how come u can tell people to shut up? u must be special... 'special'....

[~*RiNaJaY*~]

That's like saying..."Don't complain that I'm calling you ugly if you don't wanna go have plastic surgery to change it."
Or like..."Don't complain that I'm calling you stupid because you're blonde."

I totally agree with that. People don't choose to be fat. We have to understand that people do not get fat just because of their lack of self-discipline to control what they are eating. There are plenty of other reasons, some unknown, that contributes to being overweight.
Some people depend on food when they are emotionally unstable. For example, chocolates. Consuming chocs helps our body to produce endorphins, a type of hydrocarbon that makes us feel happier and less depressed. So for some people, they depend on chocs to feel better. And unknowingly, they have already bloated to 100kg of fats. They are just, to put it in layman's terms, unaware of it.
It does not help if you judge this matter generally if you have never experienced it. It's not just a simple matter of controlling your body to do this or that.
And lack of self control is another matter. Eating more than you have to is something like spending money on a really expensive handbag(for the ladies) when it is on sale. It's really hard to control and humans are made that way. We just can't fight it. For those who fought against their mind's will(and succeeded), kudos to them. But we have to understand that not everyone are capable of doing so.

[chineseguyjl]

well their problem is that they are addicted to food. but it is a fact that there will always be descrimination amongst the world. obesity is just one of the many factors, some can just be ignorant and hate them or some can be helpful. Self-esteem is a big issue, there is no positive to being the overweight person in a crowd of skinny people with speech or not. As long as they see themselves deteriorating inside because of the problem, nothing can hurt them more than themselves.

[KendoTiger]

Keke ~ finally, some arguments ~ still, can't believe no one's watched that movie - it's so freaking applicable.

Look, I personally believe that it is stupid, owing to the fact that it has only negative effects, no positive ones. So you have less sex appeal, worse health, decreased chance of promotion (it has been proven that attractive(physical shape and face)/tall characteristics are strongly correlated with increased pay), increased food bill, etc. What good things DO you have? The ability to float more easily?

How many people say smoking is stupid? Yeah? It's the same damn thing.

Personally, I hate it when people bitch about something they can change, but simply lack the willpower to do. If you recognize the need for change, but can't see it through, then I don't see why I should respect you at all. You really should read more carefully ~ I meant that if you resign yourself to a terrible fate, then I have every right to be sarcastic and mean about it *"no right to complain" sentence*, not that I would make fun of someone simply for being overweight.

Yay, science is fun. Despite the fact that you're claiming a neurotransmitter imbalance (so you're saying it's alright to take drugs? o_O;;), you're still assuming that people shouldn't be held accountable when they eat understandably fatty foods. Yeah, eating food fried in animal fat makes me feel nice - woah, how did I get fat all of a sudden?

I'm mentally weak ~ I think I'll cave in and kill a few people. Yeah ~ I don't have the willpower, please excuse me. *rolls eyes*

You think I'm extreme? One of my friends suggested putting fat people on a moving sidewalk (traveling 3mph) and seeing if they could go for an hour (a normal person walking generally goes 3mph). Oh, by the way, at the end of the sidewalk is a gigantic shredder. If they can't keep up ~ oh well.

[edit] a -> and [/end edit]

[xiaojielun]

Personally, I hate it when people bitch about something they can change, but simply lack the willpower to do. If you recognize the need for change, but can't see it through, then I don't see why I should respect you at all. You really should read more carefully ~ I meant that if you resign yourself to a terrible fate, then I have every right to be sarcastic and mean about it *"no right to complain" sentence*, not that I would make fun of someone simply for being overweight.

i think kendotiger has put it very well, if a person has no willpower to change themselves why do they deserve our support? i mean i personally dont have a problem with overweight people but if they expect people to help them lose weight when they dont their own willpower to do it what's the point? anyways that's my view

[lattae]

Personally, I hate it when people bitch about something they can change, but simply lack the willpower to do. If you recognize the need for change, but can't see it through, then I don't see why I should respect you at all. You really should read more carefully ~ I meant that if you resign yourself to a terrible fate, then I have every right to be sarcastic and mean about it *"no right to complain" sentence*, not that I would make fun of someone simply for being overweight.
There are some things that you can't change despite having the will power to. If will power is everything, then I really can be a nobel prize winner if I am really determined to. I can get an IQ of 180 if I really am determined too. Or hell, I can become Tiger woods/Ian Thorpe/Ronaldo etc etc if I really am determined to.

I am not saying that working hard won't help. But there are limitations that your body is ingrained with. Some people are just tall, while others short, some people are colored some people are white... some people are bigger, others smaller. It's called diversity, and it's nature, just respect that.

Some people can spend the entire life walking on a treadmill and never get any skinnier. Some people can stick to very simple diets, and never get any lighter.


I don't like smoke or people who smoke. But I don't walk around calling them stupid. I respect them for their choice of lifestyle. All I ask of them is that they respect my lifestyle of staying smoke free. We can live without calling people names, didn't they teach you that in grade school.


By the way, although RiNaJaY made a pretty weak arguement with the case about neurotransmitter and such, I just want to point out that neurotransmitter disease is not something you can control. Lets not talk about a mild day to day depression, that most people can walk out from. However, there are a handful of people that just go out of control without medication. So we are supposed to call these people weak? If you have a family member or a close friend that suffers from such neurological disease, you'll probably realise that there are some things that are beyond your control. People don't think their way out of schizophrenia/bipolar disorder, they need medical help. Of course there are cases whereby the person is just reliant and "weak" as you might call it, but lets not let these black sheeps taint our perception of actual patients alright.

[sagara0510]

i think kendotiger has put it very well, if a person has no willpower to change themselves why do they deserve our support? i mean i personally dont have a problem with overweight people but if they expect people to help them lose weight when they dont their own willpower to do it what's the point? anyways that's my view

so because they're weak in mind means u shouldn't support them?

ever heard of helping people less fortunate than yourself? maybe you have the willpower to do it but not every1 does... if you are in a position to support them and to help them stay strong why not do it? go jogging with them... encourage them to eat healthy food or to eat less... things like that? are you telling me you never need help in anything that you do? that you have no weaknesses and need no support from anybody?

if thats the case tell me your secret because you are SOOOOO my hero!

[xiaoli]

^ Of course you should support them, but I think what he means is that your efforts will be fruitless if they themselves don't have the inner willpower, or motivation. If they're not prepared to put in the effort, they aren't going to achieve anything, even though it's something they may really desire. You can have someone on your back all the time, you can join Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers, but essentially it's all up to YOU.

I complain about my thunder thighs. I'm not happy about them. Although I might really, really WANT legs like Gisele Bundchen, when it comes down to the crunch I just don't have the willpower to get them - but that's my problem. You might encourage me to eat healthy food but I just can't resist that Snickers bar. You might try to drag me jogging but I just can't be bothered. Do you get me?

There seems to be an argument here of:
Fat people can lose weight if they really want to VS. Fat people just can't lose weight because it's just the way they are.

My opinion: The majority of fat people can lose weight if they really want to, but there are some who simply can't.

I agree that there are some things you can't change such as height, skin colour, etc. but these characteristics largely concern genetics. Height is more NATURE than NURTURE. But IMO weight is more NURTURE than NATURE. Genetics might give you a slower metabolism but are there DNA codons that translate into being fat? Having a large build, yes, but being fat? I find it hard to believe that if someone exercises daily and sticks to a strict diet (thus burning more kilojoules than they consume), they won't lose weight because they were born to be a certain size. For the most part, anyone can lose weight, they just have to work hard.. but yeah, there are always exceptions to everything.

Meanwhile, I'm not even entirely sure what the topic starter is trying to ask.

countess: When you say we're giving overweight/obese people too much support - do you mean we're glorifying and supporting obesity? Or do you mean we're giving obese people too much support in shedding weight? Because I think some people might interpret it as the latter.

If it's the former, well, everyone associates obesity with unhealthiness, that's why it's such a major concern in countries like the USA and Australia. Like Vicluva said, NO ONE would endorse obesity. I think being fat or overweight is OK though. Appearance isn't that important. It's only when your weight starts to compromise your health does it become a worry.

I realise all the health issues that extend from being overweight and obese...and I really do see that point about it affecting your health and thus it being important not to promote being overweight or obese, but I think that it's still really important to send across that "loving yourself" message, because it's definitely not from hating yourself and your weight that you strive to change (at least in a healthy way - meaning not through anorexia etc).

Well said Shay. So it doesn't really help to have people look down on them.

Oh and I think it's TOTALLY unfair if a fat person has to buy 2 seats on a plane, bus, whatever. It's not OK for 2 skinny people to share ONE seat, is it?

[KendoTiger]

Lattae ~

Yeah, willpower determines everything. It's just that for most of the things you mentioned, it would take such a large degree that it is virtually impossible. Virtually. Anyways ~ I'll admit I was making a slight generalization: there are probably a few (less than 5% of the "fat" population) people who are incapable of losing weight (to become relatively skinny). Still, everyone has the ability to lose weight ~ it just depends on the ferver of your effort.

Yeah - xiaoli is right about the characteristics stuff ~ I really can't make it simpler...

Since when is obesity nature? I can really see a 500 pound cheetah running down an antilope... Oh, the whale thing? obviously - I already stated the warth/bouyancy - both of which don't help humans.

If I don't respect someone, why should I shut up? I mean, I'm not so cruel as to just go up to the person and rant for an hour about how disgustingly fat they are - but I still have the right to make distasteful comments if it comes up in conversation.

Time for the real argument: oh, but please have an understanding about neurotransmitters before making an argument - you just confuse things and make me have to restate myself.

I did not say that people who have a chemical imbalance should be insulted (or w/e you're trying to imply I said), but that by relating an eating disorder to a chemical imbalance, she's stating that food is an acceptible alternative to prescription drugs. Now ~ if a problem actually exists, then by adding the proper neurotransmitters, you can solve the problem without the weight gain; hence, it would be stupid to rely on "chocs".

Now, if the problem is not medical - but rather that they like the endorphine release ("chocs make them feel good"), then it is rather like saying that drugs (which do similar things) are alright. Both have bad consequences, but they make you feel good ~ so they should be accepted -_-. I mean, you're essentially turning "chocs" into drugs, by abusing them strictly for the chemical release ~ oh btw, this means you're an addict ;D.

So for all those "choc" addicts, I'm sorry people think becoming obese is more socially acceptable than weight loss, shaking, euphoria, and all those other effects of drug use.

Sagara
Yeah, I'm saying that someone who can't put forth their own effort shouldn't be helped - that is different from helping someone who puts forth effort, but can't do something. As long as they try, then I respect them; if they don't, then I don't respect them. You're essentially taking care of them when they have no ability to fend for themselves (yet should be able to). Honestly, it's more of that I can't think of anyone without willpower as anyone but a child, as they do not accept responsibility for themselves.

What secret? It's simply a matter of disliking immature people.

[sagara0510]

i'm sure nobody wants to be fat. and i'm sure to a certain degree, every1 tries to lose weight.... it might be a small step such as eating less or it might be a big step as running 4 miles a day everyday and eating nothing but rice crackers

and what if they aren't doing anything? but they ask you for your help? are you going to turn them down?

[Melvin]

Well, i am middle weight myself... im not skinny but im not fat.. just like most teens.. I think that if obese people want to really slim down, they gotta do it themselves.. don't wait for people to help you with it... don't wait for people to tell you about it.... don't you care about yourself? if you don't, and wish to wallow in self-despair... if you wish to cry and think about why you are in this sad predicament..

you are sad that people make fun of you?
well first of all are you happy with yourself?
if you are, then you may not have to bow to their comments
if you are unsatisfied with yourself, which you probably should be, do something about it... STOP watching TV and munching chips at the same time................. get out of your home and start exercising... play sports and stuff...

god helps those who help themselves

[lattae]

Lattae ~
Yeah, willpower determines everything. It's just that for most of the things you mentioned, it would take such a large degree that it is virtually impossible.

Honestly, it's more of that I can't think of anyone without willpower as anyone but a child, as they do not accept responsibility for themselves.

What secret? It's simply a matter of disliking immature people.

Of course I was exaggerating to make my point about willpower does not determine everything. BUT even in day to day life, having the will power to do a job doesn't mean the result will be as what you want. Hell I can study my a$$ off for my maths yet I can never get an A. I've seen people who'd spend their entire waking hours to trying to get their business on track, but still, not everyone is Bill Gates... Although you will need will power to score As in exam, run your business, excel in your work... BUT lets realise that for every person with will power that succeeds, there are probably 2 others with the same will power but fails. Life can be cruel... the thing is will power does not equate results.


And...

Truly mature people accept that others may not think/behave the way they do. Truly mature people will not dismiss immature people as being worthless.
Truly mature people will respect another human being, and extend help to another.


If people with problems should just shut up, then we don't need counsellors.
If everyone can overcome all their problems, we won't need psychologists.
If we can all live without support from each other, we should just shut ourselves on an island/solitary cell etc.

[seaweedpatchkid]

I'm extremely immature. :D

And Patchy agrees with Lattae.

Not everything can be solved with the will to do it. If a mentally disabled child will probably not get an A in Calculus. If willpower was everything, the world would be so different.

Now let's talk about overweight and obese children and outside factors. Things outside of willpower. One of the things that the new constantly focuses its attention on is Socioeconomic status. Let's be serious now, healthy food is not cheap.

Say a teenager in the lower class is willing to lose the weight and tries really hard, but cannot lose the weight because of the food he is provided. His family cannot afford healthier foods for him. Then what? Are you going to suggest that he just stop eating?

[KendoTiger]

-_-

Hey patches ~

Did you know that the most inexpensive food available are fruits, vegetables and rice/pasta? Despite government exemptions from such things as price colluding, they are non-the-less the MOST inexpensive form of substanance (exemptions don't include pasta/rice). Now, not only are these forms of food cheap, they are also both filling and non-fattening.

So, I'll make your argument for you, since your claim doesn't stand up: Socioeconomics determine relative diet based on knowledge of what a healthy diet is - not the availability of healthy food. Someone of a lower socioeconomic status is less likely to be educated (correlation between education and family income has been proven), and therefore be less likely to chose a healthier diet in comparison to something that is immediatly fulfilling (human preference for short term gains over more beneficial long term gains).

Oh ~ everything in (parentheses) are accepted social theories, economics, or scientific/mathematical studies.

Lattae

Fine, you need willpower and basic intelligence. *rolls eyes*

Why am I immature? All I said was that I dislike people who don't take responsibility for themselves. If you had to change the diaper of a 30 year old man, just because he didn't feel like walking to the bathroom, would you do it without complaining?

Again and again ~ there isn't anything wrong if you try and still need help. It's disgusting when you aren't even willing to try.

[sagara0510]

oh nooooo he's going into nutritional values, government policy, socioeconomics, theory and scientific studies!!

his arguement is obviously superiour to all of ours put together!! quick! run for the hills! get into the bunker!! GO GO GO!

*grabs lattae and patchy*

[KendoTiger]

*rolls eyes*

Not my fault if you're arguments are weak. Sides ~ that's the whole point of a debate, to present and defend points intelligently, with backing. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people yelling their opinions.

[sagara0510]

omg is that... oh yes i do believe it is swelling head syndrome!

back away slowly ppl!!

[lattae]

Fine, you need willpower and basic intelligence. *rolls eyes*
Sigh, you still don't get do you? Intelligence isn't every thing. Decisions ain't every thing. Will power can only take you as far as the circumstances permit.

Environment is sometimes the most powerful determinant of success. And that includes the "timing", "opportunity", meeting the right people... It's not within yourself to determine.


Coming back to taking charge of their weight. Some fat kids have been so traumatised by the bullying, names calling, being at the recieving end of jokes... they develop very strong low self esteem. They no longer believe they are capable of anything. You can't dismiss them and call them weak. They've been through trauma that you probably cannot imagine, and different people have different capacity for psychological attacks such as these. Just as some rape victims can never walk out from their experience and enjoy fulfilling family life. Our character (which nature has a good amount of influence in) and our life experience will determine how much we can withstand those attacks.

Some people succumb to these trauma, and can never believe they are in control of their lives any more. They do need more help and support than others to walk out of the problem.

Things are just not as simple as you'd put it. It's way complex.

Maybe you are too intelligent and successful to appreciate that.



*backs away*

[sagara0510]

slowly lattae... slowly... remember... he has the intelligence and the willpower to do whatever he wants...

we should back away extremely slowly... oh oh and avoid eye contact

[lattae]

we should back away extremely slowly... oh oh and avoid eye contact
:oops:
I'll close my eyes now, lead me out of here please?

*takes itsy-bitsy steps*

Patchy, you coming along?

[sagara0510]

oh oh lets not forget super intelligent people with big head syndrome... they seem to like to complain about everything too!

d/w lattae i'll guide you out... and patchy has already left the building... the wuss...

[KendoTiger]

Sagara, if you don't like opinion (admittedly, I'm being an ass because it's fun right now), either shut me down with an argument, or stop acting like a bitch. Thank you.

=_= yeah, go ahead and take away my rep points, it's fine. I know you're going to anyways.

Lattae - when you claim external factors (ie random chance meetings), how exactly would that figure into people becoming fat? Such as the bullying - how could they tolerate the initial bullying if they don't already have low self-esteem? why are they being bullied in the first place? if they were originally fat, but did not put forth an effort to slim down, why would they become upset about being called fat?

Sorry, I'm still confused about your point.

Honestly, I still believe that willpower and basic intelligence can accomplish anything ~ yeah, it's more of a personal belief, so sue me.

Oh, and everything in my life I've had to work my ass off to get ~ and yes, I can understand what it feels like to be made fun of because you're overweight. Guess what? I got off my ass off the couch and did something about it.

[sagara0510]

whoa so now you're a mind reader!! well guess what smart guy!... i WASN'T going to take away rep points from you! but since your expecting it and since i don't like to disappoint...

and i'll stop acting like a bitch when you stop... doing ... whatever super smart intelligent big headed syndrome guys do....

THANK YOU!

*bows*

[KendoTiger]

What, you mean back up my argument? Yeah, I'm sorry if I try to make sense when I post something ~

Maybe you should try it, instead of just yelling at someone with a different opinion, and then calling them an ass.

[lattae]

Lattae - when you claim external factors (ie random chance meetings), how exactly would that figure into people becoming fat? Such as the bullying - how could they tolerate the initial bullying if they don't already have low self-esteem? why are they being bullied in the first place? if they were originally fat, but did not put forth an effort to slim down, why would they become upset about being called fat?
Sorry, I'm still confused about your point.

That's why I said that smart and successful people like you, who've never been on the other side cannot comprehend what it's like to grow up fat.

What makes you think fat kids are like bullied when they are like old enough to defend themselves? Fat kids are labelled by adults from young, and very young mind you. So you are this defendless 3 yr old, knowing nothing about taking charge or fighting back, being bombarded with the attacks of name calling and bullying by adults or older kids. Sometimes even their own parents give preferential treatment to the slimer, prettier sibling. Some of them take it well, and grow up working off the excess weight, others suffer permanent damage to their self esteem. And lose belief in themselves etc etc.

It's nothing a successful person like you, who's on your way to presidency of USA, and nobel prize can comprehend.

And please, I am sure you have a better word than b*tch in your extensive vocabulary. Can we refrain from vulgarity just as in all debate?

[sagara0510]

whoa smart guy you talkin to me? i never said i was backing ur argument... your intellectual speak is way beyond me anyway

(admittedly, I'm being an ass because it's fun right now),

and i never called you an ass... you called urself an ass smart guy!!

[KendoTiger]

I'm sorry, but it's still the most descriptive word I can think of right now.

Lmfao. You think I was skinny growing up? I'm sorry if I had enough confidence in myself to be social and save myself from taunts simply by being friends with everyone. Yeah, I also decided it was worth getting healthy ~ so I stopped being lazy and exercised and dieted. Took me two years to get into good shape, but I did it.

Honestly people ~ if someone is overweight, but accepts it, then I don't care. Personally, I'll think they're being lazy and stupid, but I don't think it's my business and won't call them out on it. If they want to change, but don't put forth any of their own effort, that is when I'm disgusted.

I said it's possible, not likely. Whoever said I want those things? Whoever said I had enough willpower to accomplish those things? If someone were to devote their entire essence to accomplishing something, then I believe they can do it ~ isn't that a good thing? As for this belief in context, if you look at what I wrote before, you'll see that I said that the presence of willpower is what is needed ~

I swear, went from being a debate to everyone yelling at me. Where the hell is it okay for me to put my discenting opinion?

edit
I called myself an ass because I was stupid and tried to be straightforward in an argument, rather than being tactful so as to not piss off people like you. You called me an ass through your insults.

reread what you're mentioning ~ and try to use those english skills. I never said you were backing up my point of view.

[sagara0510]

hey u can call urself an ass all u like its cool with me i won't disagree with u... but i just wanted to clarify that i never called u an ass... u called urself an ass...

and congrats on being so dedicated and strong willed on losing weight... takes alot of effort so i'll give u that

and i don't think anybody here is actually yelling at you...we're all just typing...and i don't see many if any exclamation marks or capital letters so i think its safe to assume that...we're not yelling...

[KendoTiger]

Great, you can at least be condenscending. I'm amazed ~

Screw it ~ this argument isn't worth it, I'm getting some sleep.

[wanie_jay]

erm....nice topic...

i do have something to say...
i used to be 'one-of-those-fat-people-that-takes-up-two-seat'...and let me tell u this..it never was easy,

u are who u are, because i used to be fat b4, i know exactly how it felt, and, it wasn't nice..
there's always no clothes for me, and if does, it always the tees, i never got to wear fancy dress, and because of that, i dun really want to go out,and be ok bout it, being fat....

but, i got a friend, who's 20 kilos heavier, and she's living her life to the fullest,and she really makes my day, infact, she's da one that i turn to, whenever i had problems....i always feel welcomed when i hang around fat people, because i know how it feels when no body really wants to be ur friend, because of ur physical stats..

just because ur not thin, doesn't make u a bad person..there is this wonderful personality hidden inside these people, waiting for us to discover...if only, we reallly dun judge a book by its cover, then this world be a better place to live in....

in terms of health...i believe that, it's actually what makes up this wonderful world.. just imagine, if no fat person around, only slim, stick looking figure...walking around...
how dull is that?

[dude000]

hmmmm i kinda do agree with you i guess. but yeh whocares if the media are giving it to all the obese and overweight, it doesnt bother me seeing them. its kinda interesting if they have an interesting life story, lol. but yeh obese and overweight peoplpe should consider reducing their weight for the benefits

[eimiie]

Wanie_jay, you have a point. If everyone was skinny, the world would be pretty boring. In fact, I'm sure that if everyone were normal, people would be dying and starving themselves to be even skinnier.
As for the media giving the obese/overweight too much support, the body image may serve as motivation. It's not fun to be overweight, but if you're happy with it... I guess everyone also says that being healthy is what matters most.

[Rurouni[X]]

Well said.. two thumbs up.
I work at a Fast Food Restuarant (KFC) like i have mentioned in mnay posts...
i Think that it is disgustion when a fat person comes up to me.. Orders a gigantic amount of food and says "I come here everyday. Can i get a discount?"
Although i know many people are gonna hate me i feel very strongly about this subject.
And if they are aware of the attitude of the public and think that they are obese and KNOW it.. And are under emotional stress why dont they loose weight?
I know that its not easy. you cant simply click your fingers and expect all the weight to disappear into Fat air but you can try.
Take a diet,. run abit walk up the stairs dont use the elevator.

Obese people dont cut it. It shortens your life and makes you unable to do many things. Obese people are also shunned and teased and made jokes of.
Have you seen a poster of a obese person getting out of a pool.'
Or just being IN a pool.
I think obesity needs to be dealt with fast.
Almost 60% (correct me if im wrong) of Australian kids are overweight.
Sometimes a see some girl in year 4 that has two chins and asks her mother for KFC.
And her mother will comply.. Too lazy to teach her ethics and basis of health.
Might i add parents who are obese put up a very BAD image for their children.
Children look up to their Mother/Father, no?
If your Mother and Father are all obese the chance is Way more likely that the child will be fat as well.
Its a issue we have to address.
Why is their a inability to loose weight?? everyone can do it with abit of effort.
And NO!! most fat people do NOT have any Genetic problems.
They have a problem that they are LAZY. And that they EAT too much.
I admit some people have a bad matabilism. Not everyone can digest like me :D.
But most people are generally normal.
Plus how is it a generalisation if its true.
Obesety = Unhealthy. You cannot Possibly be healthy if you are obese.
There isnt anything to be healthy about.
You cant stand much physical strain.

Merenwen ur not obese.
Your body mass to your height is healthy.
I weight 65 and have a height of 173 cm.
Muscle weighs more then fat haha
^^"
But its not the look people give. Its not the "OMG you are SO fat.. get a life looser" I tend not too look at people who are obese out of politeness and decorum...
I tend to think that Fat people are slow.. but that IS a generalisation.
Also i dont agree with "Obese people cant do stuff well"
Never trust a skinny cook
^^"

[Hanzo]

Weight is a very sensitive issue everywhere. Especially to women. I think it's clear that this world is meant for the fit people. Why? Look around you, look on TV, there's almost no obese celebrities, no obese VJs, no obese super models.

Face it, the world is a shallow place! The fat guy may be perfect for a job but why is the job given to the average non-obese applicant? Company image! Rubin was the american idol winner, why is Clay getting more media attention then him(btw, i think he is very gay). Now that's just in North america. In Asia, I've yet to see any fat or over weight singers/actors.

I admit, I use to be pretty chubby. I'm 5'10 and 69kg right now, at my peak I was probably 85kg. I've noticed a few things when I was chubby. I wasn't into sports, I'd rather stay in my room and play games(ie starcraft and CS) one of the reasons was because I was not in shape, I sucked at every sport I played. I was excluded from many social events, and sometimes I wouldn't go even if I got an invite because I wasn't happy with myself and my image as a overweight guy...

Once I got into University, I started working out, eating healthier, play sports and I lost a lot of weight, right now I'm trying to get a 6 pack, but damn I probably need to lose another 5kg for that to show :oops: Anyways, I've noticed some other things after I had normal weight... I was less shy, I like interacting with people more. I get a lot more attention from the ladies. I'm more sucessful in society, at sports and my social life.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that, most fat people know they are fat and overweight and would rather be thin and healthy but it takes will power, not everyone can lose weight and go on a successful diet. They need guidance, movies like "super size me" not a fast-food restaurant every block!

[xanimeotakux]

i can agree with you. but look at the obese people's point of view. does their image really matter? shouldn't it be the inside that counts? of course, people always look at the outside at times, i admit. i do that too. like kendo said, it can be from genetics. obesity can come from your family. obesity has been such a personal issue to 'obese' people that they've even done plastic surgery to satisfy themselves. but they can also exercise, go eat healthy food. so i think obese people should try and...lessen that weight.

[Sugar&Spice]

Emotion/esteem:
I'm sorry, but being fat carries negative sexual connotations ~ I'm happy for you if you have strong self-esteem and love your own image, but it's not only unhealthy, but it won't turn heads when you walk down the street.

Okay, you just said that you want to underline some things. Well the reason I call them things, is because they are not facts. You put alot of effort into something that is not even true. Here is your first mistake. The statement above. I laughed when I read this, because I'm definatly not a size 4. I'm chunky. And everytime I go out, I get guys giving me their numbers. And yes asian men are included in that number. So your statement was totally false. I have had men running after me, from white, to spanish, to black, to chinese, Koren, african, vietnamese,. And that is no lie. Someone told me that because I'm chunky, that no man would look at me. But was dumbfounded to see the chinese man on his knees in front of my doorstep, begging me to be with him. And that happens to me all the time. It is not how much you weigh that turns heads. But how you carry yourself as a person. You can be small, and still not turn any heads. Why?! Because you don't carry yourself well. So when you make statements, make sure you know what you are talking about. Because this statement was false. And purely your own opinion.



Quote:
Health:
Yes, there are anorexic people. Yes, it's terrible and unhealthy. Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about if you say that anorexia is a larger danger to the general population (specifically the us) than excessive weight is. Although anorexia is life-threatening, it is far less widespread than obesity (look at the government censuses on weight); obesity is also life-threatening, due to the greatly increased chance of having a heart attack/etc (proven medically), and degrades quality of life even without immediate health effects (less attractive, harder movement, increased cost of clothes, increased food budget, etc).

This satement is also false. Anorexia is also a cause for heart attack. Your body can go into shock and your systems shut down. People who suffer from anorexia, are prone to heart attacks. Do some more reading about that. And who told you that fat people are less attractive?! Maybe that is what you think. And you are entitled to your opinion, but don't write it up as if that is some kind of fact, because it is not. I'm chunky, but everytime I go out people tell me how pretty I'am. And that is from men and women. So get your facts straight. Also you said an increased food budget. Another false statement. It may be the case with some people, but do not generalize all big people.

When I shop, I do not pay a whole lot for food. My food budget is moderate. Unless you go to every fat person's house and look at their budget. You have no right to make such an assumption. Yes we do pay more for clothes, but I'm alsways going to pay more for clothes. Because I have to look good. All of my clothes are stylish, and hip.

So I pay a pretty penny for my, hip-hop jeans, and jean jackets,etc. Most of my clothes have cool pics on them are something like that. I'm proud of how much I speand on my clothes.


Harder movement?! That is another generalzation on your part. Because I can move just fine. And I do damn good movements. I walk and dance just fine thank you. But on the other hand, I have seen small people who can't even make it up a flight of stairs without huffing and puffing. So it all about how much you are in shape. Not how big you are.


Quote:
So ~ to sum it up: being fat is stupid ~ its unhealthy and degrades the quality of your life. Can you do anything about it?


I think that being ignorent is stupid. Because that staement was ignorent. But now I see what you think of some of your family members. Also there is nothing degrading about my life. I live my life just like anyone else. Degrading is when you lay around with different men, or judge people without knowing their situation. That is degrading.



Quote:
Yes, you can. Genetics and other factors govern only so much ~ it's up to you to get up off the couch and excercise, push yourself with diets, and stay motivated. Give up on becoming healthy, resign yourself to your flab, then you have no right to complain about anything I say about you.
Honestly, I think that if you're going to bitch about something (ie - keep complaining that you're fat), do something about it, or shut up.


Excuse me?! Don't assume us big sisters don't get up and do anything. I do cardiovascular excercises everyday for two-three hours. I have worked in a factory where you had to be on your feet for 12 hours a day. From 5am to 5pm. With the exceptions of a lunch break, and two 15 min ones. So don't sit there and say that big people don't get off the couch. And no I don't complain at all that I'm not a skinny little thing walking around. Why should I?! Its your opinion that we should be, it is certainly not mine. I'm speaking from personal experience when I say this, NOTHING is lacking in my life. In my day to day life, or in my personal life.

Just to bring up an example, you say you are thin right?! Well why is it that you have gotten stood up before?!(I saw it in another thread.) It was not because you were fat, and I don't thinlk it is because you were ugly. So it could have been because she was not intreasted. So that happens with anyone, don't just assume it happens to big people. And some of the best couch potatoes are skinny people. Keep that in mind. Also people of all shapes complain about themselves. Do just put that on big people.

[KendoTiger]

Since people are obviously not bright enough to read the most recent posts.

Honestly people ~ if someone is overweight, but accepts it, then I don't care. Personally, I'll think they're being lazy and stupid, but I don't think it's my business and won't call them out on it. If they want to change, but don't put forth any of their own effort, that is when I'm disgusted.[/quote

------------
Honestly, I don't have much time to respond because I'm going out with some friends, and I need to start getting ready. *Coincidence*. Change of plans, they're coming to the woods near my house, not the park. I'll be able to write a little more

First, could you please break up the quote box so people can see what you're quoting and your response. Thanks :) *I was told the same earlier XD*.

By the way, I wrote this a *long* time ago, and was hoping it remained buried with sagara. Unfortunately not, *shrugs* guess I'll respond :/
---------------------------

[QUOTE=Sugar&Spice]Okay, you just said that you want to underline some things. Well the reason I call them things, is because they are not facts. You put alot of effort into something that is not even true. Here is your first mistake. The statement above. I laughed when I read this, because I'm definatly not a size 4. I'm chunky. And everytime I go out, I get guys giving me their numbers. And yes asian men are included in that number. So your statement was totally false. I have had men running after me, from white, to spanish, to black, to chinese, Koren, african, vietnamese,. And that is no lie. Someone told me that because I'm chunky, that no man would look at me. But was dumbfounded to see the chinese man on his knees in front of my doorstep, begging me to be with him. And that happens to me all the time. It is not how much you weigh that turns heads. But how you carry yourself as a person. You can be small, and still not turn any heads. Why?! Because you don't carry yourself well. So when you make statements, make sure you know what you are talking about. Because this statement was false. And purely your own opinion.

I never said it was fact. I was making a statement - one which is open to interpretation. If you want to get into the symantics, there are cultures where plus-size women are considered more attractive; it is possible to be plus-size and still cute. You're quoting me... not underlining?

Why do you have to relate the race of the guys chasing you? I don't think I ever mentioned race in any of my statements.

I agree that how a person carries themselves does impact their attractiveness. I mean, any girl who wears too-tight jeans, or slumps over, or picks her nose, etc - could do something as a turnoff. How attractive someone is also depends on the person looking - "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". *shrugs* I'm happy you have no trouble with your social life.

This satement is also false. Anorexia is also a cause for heart attack. Your body can go into shock and your systems shut down. People who suffer from anorexia, are prone to heart attacks. Do some more reading about that. And who told you that fat people are less attractive?! Maybe that is what you think. And you are entitled to your opinion, but don't write it up as if that is some kind of fact, because it is not. I'm chunky, but everytime I go out people tell me how pretty I'am. And that is from men and women. So get your facts straight. Also you said an increased food budget. Another false statement. It may be the case with some people, but do not generalize all big people.

I never said that Anorexia was not a cause of heart problems. Please read carefully before posting. I am right. I stated that obesity is a cause of concern because it increases the risk of heart attack (this sentence does not relate to Anorexia), which is entirely true. I also said that both are dangerous to health. In my opinion, as long as a person is neither underweight, nor overweight, then they are healthy.

You're right, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I should not have listed "less attractive" as one trait of being overweight (although psychological studies have shown that the majority of American* men prefer a women's weight - in a sexual reference - to be between a woman's "ideal" thin frame, and overweight).

*APA study - I'll find it if there's more on this.

Food budget is open to disagreement due to metabolism and relative fitness. *shrugs*. It is still true (in my own experience) that overweight people tend to eat more regularly, in greater quantities, or less-healthy food than fit people.

When I shop, I do not pay a whole lot for food. My food budget is moderate. Unless you go to every fat person's house and look at their budget. You have no right to make such an assumption.

How much you pay, or how many boxes you get is not what I meant when I misappropriately used the term "food budget". Please read my response above. "Moderate" is relative - it's a term used to "dodge" an answer. "What is your stance on gay-rights?" "Well, I'm a moderate." Etc. The simple fact is that it's an undefinable term. *shrugs* not putting you down, just showing that no one is immune to term-usage errors.

Yes we do pay more for clothes, but I'm alsways going to pay more for clothes. Because I have to look good. All of my clothes are stylish, and hip.

So I pay a pretty penny for my, hip-hop jeans, and jean jackets,etc. Most of my clothes have cool pics on them are something like that. I'm proud of how much I speand on my clothes.

I am not talking about whether you chose to buy designer clothes or not. That isn't even on topic. I am relating to the general price difference between clothes sizes (more fabric usually relates into higher prices). Then again, there are stores which equalize the prices to promote sales - which is actually a very nice thing for them to do.

Harder movement?! That is another generalzation on your part. Because I can move just fine. And I do damn good movements. I walk and dance just fine thank you. But on the other hand, I have seen small people who can't even make it up a flight of stairs without huffing and puffing. So it all about how much you are in shape. Not how big you are.

No, it's not a generalization. Stand up, touch your toes; now bend backwards so you make an arch with your back. Life your leg up (un-helped) above your head. Do a cart-wheel. Run up a wall. Fit in-between a crack the width of your rib-cage. Jump over a car.

I think that being ignorent is stupid. Because that staement was ignorent. But now I see what you think of some of your family members. Also there is nothing degrading about my life. I live my life just like anyone else. Degrading is when you lay around with different men, or judge people without knowing their situation. That is degrading.

I think that being unhealthy is stupid. How is that an ignorant comment? So, unhealthy behaviors like drugs and smoking should be encouraged? Hm, interesting reasoning there. I never said you were degrading. I said that being overweight degrades the quality of life - in other words *sigh*, it generally makes living harder (in any way). The same can be said for the anorexic, or whatever. It has been proven that overweight individuals earn less (and short/unattractive) than individuals who are tall, handsome, and trim. There's your fact - go look it up if you don't believe.

"Degrading is when you lay around with different men, or judge people without knowing their situation." Hm, I could go off on this, but I'll leave it as is. You're as ignorant as you say others are.

Do not mention my family to me. I love them unconditionally; even if I might dislike them, they are still family.

Excuse me?! Don't assume us big sisters don't get up and do anything. I do cardiovascular excercises everyday for two-three hours. I have worked in a factory where you had to be on your feet for 12 hours a day. From 5am to 5pm. With the exceptions of a lunch break, and two 15 min ones. So don't sit there and say that big people don't get off the couch. And no I don't complain at all that I'm not a skinny little thing walking around. Why should I?! Its your opinion that we should be, it is certainly not mine. I'm speaking from personal experience when I say this, NOTHING is lacking in my life. In my day to day life, or in my personal life.

I'm glad you can post my opinion, and yet not understand it. I'll say it so you can understand. GOOD FOR YOU! I AM HAPPY YOU ARE EXERCISING AND STAYING FIT! CONGRATULATIONS! *CLAPS* If someone works to stay healthy, I have nothing but kudos for them. What I hate are people who complain about being overweight, but are unwilling to do anything to change it. If you are obese, but accept it - fine, I disagree with it, but I'll hold my tongue. It's their lives, their choice to be overweight. They must live with the consequences of their choice, whatever it may be.

I am against people stating that being obese, alone, is fine. If you're healthy, but heavier than other people - there is no problem. If people kept healthy, but were over-weight (as you are), then there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. I would be happy to support this.

BUT! When you encourage an unhealthy behavior, such as pure obesity, then I am against it. If you say that it is alright to be obese, to not attempt to be healthy, then I am against you. It is the same as if you encouraged smoking, or illicit drug-use. If you promote obesity without ensuring the health of the people you speak to, your actions are both irresponsible and dangerous.

Just to bring up an example, you say you are thin right?! Well why is it that you have gotten stood up before?!(I saw it in another thread.) It was not because you were fat, and I don't thinlk it is because you were ugly. So it could have been because she was not intreasted. So that happens with anyone, don't just assume it happens to big people. And some of the best couch potatoes are skinny people. Keep that in mind. Also people of all shapes complain about themselves. Do just put that on big people.

If you read my posts, instead of just one, you might be able to make a better judgement. I am currently thin - the result of hard work and exercise. I am currently healthier, more active (in every sense), and happier.

Also, I never said, "only fat people get stood-up". Please read carefully before posting. If you want, I'm sure Judes or someone else could post what "negative sexual connotations" means. *Sorry, I'm a little pissed at the moment for other reasons. I'm not being tactful.* So please shut up when trying to use my own life to demonstrate whatever point you're attempting. Believe me, it's my life, I know it better than you - and I am sure that it has nothing to do with "the words coming out of your mouth". Sorry again, I know I'm being rude here. I can't think of another way to say it. :/

"best couch potato"? What do you mean by that? Did they win a prize? You even quote me when I state that being healthy is the most important thing.

Again, please read my posts. If you're going to mention one post from another thread, please also note my views that I am against complaining in general. I believe that indecision is the worst sin.

----
Please don't attempt to lecture me, it just pisses me off; especially if you don't understand what you're debating.

Also, please read what other people write carefully before posting. It's just common sense.

[Shay]

Back to the question... I think that those that are obese and overweight do need more support!!!!! That is the issue we are meant to be discussing right??

The increase in obesity and weight problems (esp in the US, Australia...etc) leads to significant health problems that we all need to help address. Yes, I agree that the responsibility is still on teh individual to lose their weight of course (no one else can do it for them!) And I do see the point that they need to have the willpower to stop their bad behaviours (if they have any that contribute to increased weight), reassess what they really want and work out strategies to acheive those goals...

but essentially, they NEED to have a supportive environment to do that!!!!!!!! If you tell them they're fat, lower their self esteem, make them feel bad about themselves and the way they are......that is definitely not the way to help them lose weight in a healthy way!!! And that is how a lot of obese or overweight people are treated in society through individual attitudes, media...etc etc etc. I dont think we should treat them any differently...

You know, we need to think about WHY it is so hard for them to lose weight. Like how can we judge them we dont even know their situation. It's not always attributed to laziness...!

Are they uneducated (dont know the risks, dont know what is healthy eating, dont know what is healthy exercising)? Not enough time to exercise? Dont know how to budget to include healthy foods??
The hardest to deal with...possibly..for outsiders are those that know the risks and what they should do, but are too lazy to change their behaviours...do they just not care? And how do we make them care?!!

Sorry I just realised I've blabbed on about stuff...I hope it brings a different persective to the discussion though :)

If I ever have kids..they are totally learning skills to keep them healthy!!! They're gonna exercise from a young age..unlike me. I have to push myself to exercise now!!

[wanie_jay]

i am so agree with you, Shay...
somehow,b4 we can start to critisice on a certain issue, why don't we look it on their point of views. i used to be called names when i was fatter, which makes it a lot harder for me, i felt like i was underestimated, ignored, and it was all because of my physical attributes. that's horrible....

it had stopped when i lose 20 kilos on my own, and since then, everyone just started to notice me, which is very weird...

so much for ' don't judge a book by its cover'.....

[Hanzo]

^^ agrees totally! No matter how much everyone wants to deny the fact that we judge people by their appearance, we can't hide the truth. Everyone likes to talk to people that are attractive and in shape.... fat ppl just get ignored and they get left out. And what do they do when they feel left out, they eat more and gain more weight, it's a evil cycle.

[zhy378]

my opinion, i think ones who are obese/overweight need more support.
these days we can see the media portrays lots of celebrities who are skinny and healthy. but as the media portrays more skinny people, the bigger the gap for the people between skinny and overweight ones. for those inbetween, being humans we are, we have that little urge to judge by appearance, so some people would rather think of themselves more 'meaty' than they really are. so even those who think are 'fat' if we check out that body mass thing by our height, age and weight, we find out we are healthy because that healthy range is bigger than we think it seems like.

also as the media contains more skinny actress who are 5 feet 7 inches and weighs 98 pounds, the ones who are obese/overweight will have a harder time by being depress and leftout that makes them eat even more or have a even harder time to loose weight due to the media pressure.

*sigh* why cant we just go back in the days when people who have more 'meat' on their bones are considered having a good living and wealthy than those who are just stick and bones :whistle:

[twilighthush]

These are the statistics:

55% of America is overweight.
27% is obese.

Obesity and being overweight -- while we should support them, there is a very crucial thing that needs to be recognized: this is a health problem. It is NOT healthy to be overweight/obese. And the biggest reason why people are overweight and obese are because they don't eat right, they don't exercise, and they don't get proper nutrition.

The foods we eat these days are processed. They're pumped full of synthetic toxins, hormones, and pesticides. It's no wonder that people put on so much weight these days -- also, with the rise of technology, people don't go out as much for recreation when they can just sit on their butt at home. And unfortunately, that's not very healthy at all.

A lot of people just don't have metabolisms that are working to par because they're not eating the proper foods they should be. Most people who are overweight/obese usually eat high glycemic diets, which can lead to complications like diabetes and cardiovascular disease.

I personally feel that it is crucial to help people who are overweight/obese and properly educate them and inform them to help them develop healthier lifestyles. That isn't to say that they should try to be 98 pounds, but they should at least be a weight that is considered healthy, that won't compromise their health or their lives.

[ask4more_jay]

i think we shouldn't laugh at obses people
i mean, its not really their "fault" right?
but they should try to diet or something
because its not healthy to be overweight..
but hey i'm not saying it in a mean way
just you know..
if you CAN do it, then try to lose some weight
but some people just can't lose weight no matter
wat they do.
its natural to some people
then its not really their fault
then i guess there's nothing they can do about that
but ultimately
we all need to love ouselves <33

[ene]

This is an interesting discussion. On one hand, I don't judge fat people but obesity is another issue. E.g. In America, as pointed out by twilighthush above, quite a few Americans are obese. These people have problems walking, getting out of bed,etc.

But you know what? I saw a documentary on such people and they eat MacDonald's, drink a litre of Coke everyday and do nothing to help themselves.

So what then? Do we help these people when they don't wanna help themselves? I am inclined not to. And if we want to help, in what way?

[Hanzo]

I believe the core cause of obesity is the lack of exercise and the rise of fastfood chains. Look at China, everyone use to be skinny there but now since the invasion of MacDee's and KFC, more and more kids have fallen victim to burgers, fries, and soft drinks. Combined with the pressure from school to always study and not exercise, it's no mystery why kids in China are following in the same footsteps as North America.

eliminating the "super size" is a good step i think, but more needs to be done!

[zhoudaoyan]

the number of overweight and obese people IS increasing. there's no denying it . what with the increase in the worlds technology and everything. especially in the younger and recent generations.
society should do MORE to help. education, programs for activity and exercise.
I dont think the world is emphasising this point enough. but yeah.
i think we should give the overweight people MORE support. to lose weight:D

[xsnow0yinx]

Yea, they should have more support.

However, it's not as though these overweight people had not tried to lose some weight. I mean some people actually do try. But they just can't lose the weight. Take this guy from singapore for example. He is obese and he is a twaekwondo deacher. He had tried lots of ways to lose weight i.e by excercising and going on a diet. however, he is unable to lose his weight AT ALL. The last solution he had was to go for the oberation to tie something at his stomach ( it hink). He did lose weight. But serveral months later, complications arised and he died because of it.

Do you guy know, it's due to all those inconsiderate people ( and I mean it) having looks on their faces that he is fat, leading him to go for the operation? Does he deserve to die just because of all the funny looks the society is giving him? No i don't think so. Those people who despise overweight people. Take some time off and so some REFLECTION!

People went under extreme conditions just to lose weight drastically. Is death what they deserver. We must give them support to lose weight gradually and in addition, we shoul NOT be looking at them as thoguh they are som aliens or whatever. ( taking 2 seats on a bus) comeon do u really need that seat that much?

[Sou.]

I think, in general, being overweight and obese is incredibly unhealthy, in addition to being just gross. But I think that society pressures people in general to chase the thin image-- I fell for it too. I used to be mad overweight, and then I stopped eating. Period. >>;

Being overweight because you have a gland problem is all fine and good, but there's these sites all over the internet-- the feeder thing? Where people like to get their lovers crazy fat because they think it's erotic? Trying to make their women look like the Venus of Willendorf because they think it's hot? And it's true-- in the earlier days, rubenesque women were all the thing. But these people push it too far.

And the media cracks down on pro-ana sites as being unhealthy?

I, personally, still get a little sick when I see large people eating large people things-- but I blame it on my disorder, because I get sick when *i* eat stuff. Like Edamame. =_=

[twilighthush]

From: Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/ap_on_he_me/diet_overweight_risks)

Being a little overweight can kill you, according to new research that leaves little room for denial that a few extra pounds is harmful. Baby boomers who were even just a tad pudgy were more likely to die prematurely than those who were at a healthy weight, U.S. researchers reported Tuesday.

While obesity has been known to contribute to early death, the link between being overweight and dying prematurely has been controversial. Some experts have argued that a few extra pounds does no harm.

However, this is one of the first major studies to account for the factors of smoking and chronic illness, which can complicate efforts to figure out how much weight itself is responsible for early death.

"The cumulative evidence is now even stronger," said Dr. Michael Thun, chief epidemiologist of the
American Cancer Society who had no role in the research. "Being overweight does increase health risks. It's not simply a cosmetic or social problem."

A separate large study of Korean patients, also released Tuesday, reached the same conclusion. Both are being published in this week's
New England Journal of Medicine.

An estimated two-thirds of Americans adults are overweight or obese, according to federal statistics. Obesity raises the risk of heart disease, diabetes, arthritis and some cancers. Being overweight increases blood pressure and cholesterol levels, which in turn could lead to heart disease.

The latest studies contradict controversial research by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last year that suggested being a little plump isn't so bad. Since then,
CDC chief Dr. Julie Gerberding distanced herself from the report and acknowledged potential flaws in the study that included people with health problems who tend to weigh less.

The U.S. study, by scientists at the
National Cancer Institute, involved more than half a million people, ages 50 to 71, participating in a research project by the
National Institutes of Health and AARP, formerly known as the American Association of Retired Persons.

Researchers analyzed patients' body-mass index and mortality rate over a 10-year period from questionnaires they filled out in 1995 and 1996 detailing their weight and diet.

Under current government standards, a BMI — or weight-to-height measurement — of 25 or higher is overweight; 30 and above is obese.

Generally, you must be 30 pounds overweight be to considered obese. Using the body-mass index, a 5-foot-10 man would be considered overweight if he is between 174 to 208 pounds, and obese at 209 pounds or more.

Overall, baby boomers who were underweight or obese had an increased risk of death compared with normal-weight people. The risk was particularly high for Hispanics, Asians and American Indians than for whites and blacks. However, people who were merely overweight had no substantial increased risk.

But in a separate analysis of 186,000 healthy people — who had never smoked — overweight people were 20 to 40 percent more likely to die prematurely than normal-weight people. The risk increased two- to three-fold for obese people.

CDC spokeswoman Karen Hunter declined to comment on the federal study, saying the public health agency does not comment on research done by other government branches.

In a separate study of 1.2 million Korean patients, ages 30 to 95, researchers from the Yonsei University in
South Korea and Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health reported similar findings.

Among about half a million healthy non-smokers, overweight people had a 10 to 50 percent greater risk of dying from heart disease or cancer than normal-weight people.

The two studies clearly show that being overweight "is not a benign condition," said Dr. Frank Hu, an epidemiologist and obesity researcher at the Harvard School of Public Health.

"The public health message should be loud and clear: Maintaining a healthy weight and preventing weight gain in middle age is important to maintaining longevity," said Hu, who was not connected to the research.

In an accompanying editorial, Dr. Tim Byers of the University of Colorado recommended taking "small steps toward weight control, such as short bursts of activity" and changes to diet.

Several years ago, Byers eliminated powdered doughnuts from his diet and lost 10 pounds. With a current BMI of just over 27, he looks for other ways to shed the weight like climbing stairs instead of taking the elevator to his fourth-floor office

[danny24]

i think if its a medical condition dont judge but if its just from eating to much treat them like they treat smokers these days like no getting second at a restaurant and no desert with more than 10 calories give them a eating patch wel more like a wrist pc wich checks the calories youve eaten in the day and if you pass the maximum you get fined
maybe that will get them to be healthy

[zhy378]

i say we should work on the problems of obesity and overweight first and then help the skinny anorexia later. the problem of being overweight has been a problem and more common for many years compared to the situation of being anorexia. if we help more people to be more healthy and feel more "average", then the less people will get that feeling to be 'skinny' that later might turn into bulimia or anorexia.

[Singerchick]

No, I think the crap they get for being fat pretty much cancels out the support they get.

Of course it's not healthy to be fat, but it's just as unhealthy to pressure them to go on a miracle diet.

So I think they deserve support, not in a sense of "get fatter" but instead in the form of encouragement to lose weight through healthy means.

[countess]

Ok, it's been quite some time since my first post on this issue and i must say my views have changed. I think the support given by society to the obese/overweight is not being directed to where is should be. I think something should be done by the government to set standards on things like fast-foods. This will no doubt bring the price up, but the government should also look into subsidising these costs. The advantages of this process is one for the long term. Where will the money come from? Well, the money the government spends these days on the healthcare system is enormous because so many people are unhealthy with the numerous diseases stated in the post by Twilighthush. We could use that money to offer healthier food in our fast food stores, such as replacing processed "beef" with real cuts of meat.

However, most important of all, i think there needs to be a change in some social norms. I would think that the children of overweight/obese parents are more likely to be affected and become like their parents because their eating habits will be the same. People these days are unwilling to talk about this issue because they fear it will be too offensive to those concerned. I don't think its an "image" problem anymore, its a serious health concern. The diseases that people develope from being overweight are now the second highest form of preventable deaths, first being lung cancer.

An idea from "Super Size Me", why is it that we can address a smoker and say, "stop smoking, this will kill you and those around you", but not say the same to one who is overweight/obese when they are doing a similar thing?

[KendoTiger]

I saw countess coming over, and had to say hi. HI COUNTESS! *waves*

---something non-jerk-like to contribute---

I'm sorry, but the little kids today are getting extremely overweight. With child diabetes rising (seriously?), and the huge increased likelyhood of health problems later in life, we really have to do something. Now, vanity pounds (kms) are not what we are talking about- it is those people who are obese, not just overweight, whom we are referring to.

Fight childhood obesity! Get up, get outside, have fun! Say "no" to lazy parents and their fast food wet dreams! It's just as unappealing to date an obese person as a person who smokes! :X oops. Live a long, healthy, happy life! Whee!

Ps. If you are thinner, you are more flexible in bed, which translates into more fun. Much more fun. Keke ;D

*watches as the march of "I am a virgin until marriage/death, whichever comes first" begins the bash parade*

[Sugar&Spice]

I saw countess coming over, and had to say hi. HI COUNTESS! *waves*
---something non-jerk-like to contribute---
I'm sorry, but the little kids today are getting extremely overweight. With child diabetes rising (seriously?), and the huge increased likelyhood of health problems later in life, we really have to do something. Now, vanity pounds (kms) are not what we are talking about- it is those people who are obese, not just overweight, whom we are referring to.
Fight childhood obesity! Get up, get outside, have fun! Say "no" to lazy parents and their fast food wet dreams! It's just as unappealing to date an obese person as a person who smokes! :X oops. Live a long, healthy, happy life! Whee!
Ps. If you are thinner, you are more flexible in bed, which translates into more fun. Much more fun. Keke ;D
*watches as the march of "I am a virgin until marriage/death, whichever comes first" begins the bash parade*
T
he reasons that you are qouting, is not really good reasons. I do agree with the fact that too many kids are overweight.

But to be skinny just for some perv to have a good night, is not my idea of a good reason to lose weight.

[orangeman]

I saw countess coming over, and had to say hi. HI COUNTESS! *waves*
---something non-jerk-like to contribute---
I'm sorry, but the little kids today are getting extremely overweight. With child diabetes rising (seriously?), and the huge increased likelyhood of health problems later in life, we really have to do something. Now, vanity pounds (kms) are not what we are talking about- it is those people who are obese, not just overweight, whom we are referring to.
Fight childhood obesity! Get up, get outside, have fun! Say "no" to lazy parents and their fast food wet dreams! It's just as unappealing to date an obese person as a person who smokes! :X oops. Live a long, healthy, happy life! Whee!
Ps. If you are thinner, you are more flexible in bed, which translates into more fun. Much more fun. Keke ;D
*watches as the march of "I am a virgin until marriage/death, whichever comes first" begins the bash parade*

I have to comment on the sexual preference there. Obesity isn't about doing it good, it's about living through it. People have a hard time climbing the stairs to get to bed, and probably worn out to "do it" anyways. Sex is probably the last thing on their list.

I belivve obesity is contributed to a society of fast food and laziness. Cars are everywhere. No one walks on a perfectly good day. It's always "too hot" from what I'm hearing. Fast food chains are everwhere. Down a main road in my city, there is like 30. Some diners, but mainly they're the same type of food. Fried in grease, and topped with calories. I can smell the scent of fried chicken in some of my classrooms.

No one forces you to date a obese person. Some people even like them over some skinny cardboard girl. Personally, I hate those cardboard girls.

We need to respect the overweight a little more. Stop making fun of them, and give some positive reinforcement. Words are nothing until they're put to action. Ever try losing pounds? It's not easy, and for the obese, it's losing more than the 5 pounds over Christmas.

It might work, might not, but at least we'll all be together in this.

[KendoTiger]

Sugar&Spice: Generally, it's for the girl that being healthy is good for (in bed). I mean, what I'm saying is for everyone (I'm not encouraging little kids to have sex) - married people too. If you can't have a pleasurable time with the one you love, you're missing out on something big in life. Believe it or not, but in married life, a big part of your relatinship is sex - not only being intimate with the one you love, but being able to have children. If you don't enjoy sex, you two have a problem.

I think degraded healthy (shorter life, diabetes, organ strain) is a good reason. What do you think is a better reason than that?

Orangeman:

Sexual preference aside (although I did argue earlier in the thread that obesity is generally a turn off) - obesity is different from being overweight. If you are overweight, I don't have too much of a problem with you - it's your life. But for those people who weight A HUGE AMOUNT more than they are supposed to, the obese, there is definitely a problem.

There are options out there for the obese, but it is up to them to put forth the effort. If they don't put forth the effort, it is hard to want to support them.

"Love on a Diet."

As relating to sex - couldn't you call people who have a preference for obese (not overweight) girls a fetish*?

*Based on definition and relative connotation.

[Sugar&Spice]

Sugar&Spice: Generally, it's for the girl that being healthy is good for (in bed). I mean, what I'm saying is for everyone (I'm not encouraging little kids to have sex) - married people too. If you can't have a pleasurable time with the one you love, you're missing out on something big in life. Believe it or not, but in married life, a big part of your relatinship is sex - not only being intimate with the one you love, but being able to have children. If you don't enjoy sex, you two have a problem.
I think degraded healthy (shorter life, diabetes, organ strain) is a good reason. What do you think is a better reason than that?
Orangeman:
Sexual preference aside (although I did argue earlier in the thread that obesity is generally a turn off) - obesity is different from being overweight. If you are overweight, I don't have too much of a problem with you - it's your life. But for those people who weight A HUGE AMOUNT more than they are supposed to, the obese, there is definitely a problem.
There are options out there for the obese, but it is up to them to put forth the effort. If they don't put forth the effort, it is hard to want to support them.
"Love on a Diet."
As relating to sex - couldn't you call people who have a preference for obese (not overweight) girls a fetish*?
*Based on definition and relative connotation.


First of all, why are you bringing the perefrence/fetish topic on this thread?! I'm not going to answer that because you asked it on the wrong thread.


Second of all. You spoke about the positive effects of losing weight, being that you can have more fun in the bedroom. You didn't mention organ failure, diabetes, etc. If you had listed being free from these things as the positive. Then I would have had nothing to say about it. But you mentioned sex. So that was the impression that you gave. "Lose weight, have better sex."


Also what makes you think big people don't have an awsome sex life. That is really a narrow way of thinking, skinny people are not the only ones that are enjoying themselves, with their mates. The only time I don't see a person active with their mate, is if that person is 500, 600 pounds or more. But overweight people are just as healthy in that department as anyone else. Unless you want to take some statements, from people who have exprienced it, and take a poll, or provide us with some other resources besides, what statistics say. It is only your opinion which is not a fact.


Well here is what I have observed. People who constantly mention sex, are seriously lacking in it. Whether they are big or not, because of the lack of it, they have to constantly comment on it. I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of it, this is just what I have observed. And alot of the ones that talk about sex alot, are skinny people who have relationship problems. My point is, being a big person dose not exactly mean you are lacking in the bedroom. But being shallow can pretty much lead to a night alone.:D

[countess]

And alot of the ones that talk about sex alot, are skinny people who have relationship problems. My point is, being a big person dose not exactly mean you are lacking in the bedroom. But being shallow can pretty much lead to a night alone.

wow, did you take a poll to get those results?

Second of all. You spoke about the positive effects of losing weight, being that you can have more fun in the bedroom. You didn't mention organ failure, diabetes, etc. If you had listed being free from these things as the positive. Then I would have had nothing to say about it. But you mentioned sex. So that was the impression that you gave. "Lose weight, have better sex."

I think KendoTiger was just throwing in another angle to the topic, i mean, if he said the whole disease thing, it would basically repeating other people's and my post. And yes, this IS an opinion thread, if someone offered "facts" they would no doubt back it up with figures.

[KendoTiger]

The fetish statement was in regards to Orangeman's comment that a lot of people find the obese to be sexy. There is no reason why you can't bridge various debates *shrugs*.

I'm not saying the obese can't have an orgasim or have sex - I'm just saying that it probably won't be as active/varied. The obese are generally less physically active in all respects, so it makes sense to conclude that they would not have the same amount of stamina or flexibility in the bedroom. Also, there are fewer positions (based on my roommates karma sutra book and posters... don't ask) in which one partner could support the other. Being obese, there are less places you can be intimate - for example, there is little chance of joining the "mile-high club".

I have a girlfriend. Things are going great. *shrugs*

[Sugar&Spice]

wow, did you take a poll to get those results?
I think KendoTiger was just throwing in another angle to the topic, i mean, if he said the whole disease thing, it would basically repeating other people's and my post. And yes, this IS an opinion thread, if someone offered "facts" they would no doubt back it up with figures.

Why would I have to take a poll?! When I started out with,"This is what I have observed." That usually means that I have already seen it with my own eyes. So why would I need a poll to tell me what I already see?! Hmmmmm.

The fetish statement was in regards to Orangeman's comment that a lot of people find the obese to be sexy. There is no reason why you can't bridge various debates *shrugs*.
I'm not saying the obese can't have an orgasim or have sex - I'm just saying that it probably won't be as active/varied. The obese are generally less physically active in all respects, so it makes sense to conclude that they would not have the same amount of stamina or flexibility in the bedroom. Also, there are fewer positions (based on my roommates karma sutra book and posters... don't ask) in which one partner could support the other. Being obese, there are less places you can be intimate - for example, there is little chance of joining the "mile-high club".
I have a girlfriend. Things are going great. *shrugs*

Why would you need to tell me you have a girlfriend?! Unless you are putting yourself in that catgory, I don't see why you would make that statement. Unless there is something I don't know, I don't see why you felt you needed to devulge that kind of information.



The mile high club?! I think your watching too much of the Wedding Singer. I mean really. We are women, not sex objects. Whether you are skinny, or not, no one wants to be thought of as a candidate for something called the mile high club. Any woman whois ok with being looked at that way, dose not have very much self-esteem. And for a guy to say something like that must not have much respect for women. And what was meant by saying,"they might not have very many place to be intimate?!" I mean where are you being intimate in a crack?! Or a small corner somewhere?! I ask this in general. And since this is an OPINION thread I will render mine. That statement made no sense. I don't mind branching out in other aspects of a debate, but it should make sense. I don't mind reading opinions, but when they are degrading, it can be quite annoying.

[countess]

Also what makes you think big people don't have an awsome sex life. That is really a narrow way of thinking, skinny people are not the only ones that are enjoying themselves, with their mates. The only time I don't see a person active with their mate, is if that person is 500, 600 pounds or more. But overweight people are just as healthy in that department as anyone else. Unless you want to take some statements, from people who have exprienced it, and take a poll, or provide us with some other resources besides, what statistics say. It is only your opinion which is not a fact.


Well here is what I have observed. People who constantly mention sex, are seriously lacking in it. Whether they are big or not, because of the lack of it, they have to constantly comment on it. I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of it, this is just what I have observed. And alot of the ones that talk about sex alot, are skinny people who have relationship problems. My point is, being a big person dose not exactly mean you are lacking in the bedroom. But being shallow can pretty much lead to a night alone.

Oh, you don't quite get to see my sarcasm here.. sorry it was too subtle. I do believe in the paragraph before, you said "unless you want to take some statements, from people who have exprienced it, and take a poll,". You blantantly rejected someone else's opinion. Then, in the next paragraph you go out to put your observations in.. why the double standards?

[Sugar&Spice]

Oh, you don't quite get to see my sarcasm here.. sorry it was too subtle. I do believe in the paragraph before, you said "unless you want to take some statements, from people who have exprienced it, and take a poll,". You blantantly rejected someone else's opinion. Then, in the next paragraph you go out to put your observations in.. why the double standards?

I did see your sarcasim. It was you who did not pick up on mine. I was being sarcastic when I responded to your last post.

I never rejected his opinion. I was also being sarcastic then too. So actually there is no double standard, just a bunch of sarcasim.

[KendoTiger]

People who constantly mention sex, are seriously lacking in it.

You can't tell me you weren't making a jab at me with that comment. It's obvious you were. So I thought I'd tell you my background, so you can change your statement "it is what I have observed" to include counter examples. Ie - here's an "oversexed" person who talks about sex, but doesn't have any problems.


The mile high club?! I think your watching too much of the Wedding Singer. I mean really. We are women, not sex objects. Whether you are skinny, or not, no one wants to be thought of as a candidate for something called the mile high club.

I did not mean to draw that connection (I've actually never watched the Wedding Singer) - so I apologize if it has a negative connotation. I refer to "mile high club" as people who have had sex in an airplane (in general). It is very unlikely two obese people can have sex in an airplane or any other small space. If you can't figure out how fit people can have fun in these places, you're not very imaginative.

I reject your opinion, whatever it is.

[orangeman]

I did not mean to draw that connection (I've actually never watched the Wedding Singer) - so I apologize if it has a negative connotation. I refer to "mile high club" as people who have had sex in an airplane (in general). It is very unlikely two obese people can have sex in an airplane or any other small space. If you can't figure out how fit people can have fun in these places, you're not very imaginative. I reject your opinion, whatever it is.

Not to judge you entirely, but do you really hate the idea of obese people having sex? They can have sex anywhere, even on a plane if they wanted. Some people treasure their lovers more, so a plane won't do good. Some people enjoy sex, others enjoy a nice vacation, movie, etc. I doubt you know how the obese live, or else you wouldn't be mocking them, especially their sex life.

As Sugar&Spice said, women aren't sex objects (geared more towards women). They deserve more respect than the "10 minute stand".

[judes]

...kendo i find your statements regarding obese people quite ridiculous. what does being able to have sex have anything to do with not wanting to be obese? maybe because of your new relationship and OMG SEX has affected your view on things, i don't know, but that has veered away from the topic at hand into something quite ridiculous.

and continuing onto the mile high club...why does it matter if obese people can't have sex on an airplane? why do you need to have sex on an airplane in the first place? even if you were being sarcastic it's still a completely irrelevent remark and has turned this debate into a joke.

go back to the topic everyone.

regarding obese people. i believe obesity is a disease similar to lung cancer if you got lung cancer from smoking. you know what it means to eat all of those high calorie and high fat content meals. you know that there are healthy alternatives. so unless you have a REAL genetic disorder like low metabolism or there's something wrong with your body that it's difficult for you to get rid of the weight, then alright, i believe these people should be given support from the medical community.

but i really don't want my taxes to go to supporting obese people who made it their lifestyle choice and then get a heart attack and that hospital stay is paid partially out of my pockets. if you blantatly disregard your doctor's advice for an active lifestyle and nutritious eating habits and then screw yourself over, then why should we possibly hold your hand and console you? you were the one who dug your own grave.

i used to be quite an overweight little kid, possibly even obese. i couldn't control what i ate and i had a lot of baby fat. after i started to get older, i started to watch what i eat and go to the gym and now i'm at a healthy weight. it's not that difficult. you leave a little bit on your plate after each meal. when you eat out, you choose something that is less fattening or you don't eat out that much. it's a conscious decision each day for me to choose to buy yogurt instead of chips, or if i'm craving chips, buy some salsa and the low fat alternative so i'm at least eating some tomatos.

people need to smarten up and gain some self control.

[Sugar&Spice]

Not to judge you entirely, but do you really hate the idea of obese people having sex? They can have sex anywhere, even on a plane if they wanted. Some people treasure their lovers more, so a plane won't do good. Some people enjoy sex, others enjoy a nice vacation, movie, etc. I doubt you know how the obese live, or else you wouldn't be mocking them, especially their sex life.

As Sugar&Spice said, women aren't sex objects (geared more towards women). They deserve more respect than the "10 minute stand".

Orangeman, you are right. That is a very good statement. I like when you said we deserve more then a ten minute stand. Only men who are jerks think of women as ten minute stands. You are very mature for your age.:D

Kendo tiger, I think you need to get to the bottom of whats really bothering you. Because if you think that having sex on a plane, is a goal obse people should look forward to, then you need to re-adjust your thinking. No respectable woman wants to have sex on a plane. So if you are supporting people who do it in planes, then you have a serious problem. Also, you are so critical about others, not using words correctly, but you throw around things like"The mile high club." Without knowing their full meaning. You get my point?! Now its me wagging my head in shame at you.

...kendo i find your statements regarding obese people quite ridiculous. what does being able to have sex have anything to do with not wanting to be obese? maybe because of your new relationship and OMG SEX has affected your view on things, i don't know, but that has veered away from the topic at hand into something quite ridiculous.

and continuing onto the mile high club...why does it matter if obese people can't have sex on an airplane? why do you need to have sex on an airplane in the first place? even if you were being sarcastic it's still a completely irrelevent remark and has turned this debate into a joke.

go back to the topic everyone.

regarding obese people. i believe obesity is a disease similar to lung cancer if you got lung cancer from smoking. you know what it means to eat all of those high calorie and high fat content meals. you know that there are healthy alternatives. so unless you have a REAL genetic disorder like low metabolism or there's something wrong with your body that it's difficult for you to get rid of the weight, then alright, i believe these people should be given support from the medical community.

but i really don't want my taxes to go to supporting obese people who made it their lifestyle choice and then get a heart attack and that hospital stay is paid partially out of my pockets. if you blantatly disregard your doctor's advice for an active lifestyle and nutritious eating habits and then screw yourself over, then why should we possibly hold your hand and console you? you were the one who dug your own grave.

i used to be quite an overweight little kid, possibly even obese. i couldn't control what i ate and i had a lot of baby fat. after i started to get older, i started to watch what i eat and go to the gym and now i'm at a healthy weight. it's not that difficult. you leave a little bit on your plate after each meal. when you eat out, you choose something that is less fattening or you don't eat out that much. it's a conscious decision each day for me to choose to buy yogurt instead of chips, or if i'm craving chips, buy some salsa and the low fat alternative so i'm at least eating some tomatos.

people need to smarten up and gain some self control.

Now here is a part of the debate that makes sense.

I agree, if you are willing to eat yourself into an early grave, then no, you should not have support.

But here is my problem with this whole thread, the original poster, started off this thread, with how obese people(and this usually means heavyset ones as well) eat alot, take up two seats, and are pretty much dicusting. I think that this sort of thing, gives a big general outlook on all heavyset people. They then tend to think of all big people as overeaters, and lazy. That is false.

I'am what you would call thick, but I cannot stand people who are greedy, who overeat, and who are lazy. They eive us all a bad name. And it is threads, and comments like the ones I have seen by certain people on here that feeds the myth that we are all greedy and lazy.

I work hard to look good(And I do. Everyone tells me that) And I workout daily, and eat right.(except for an occasional peanut butter cup) And I don't think it is right for others to generalize, the way I have seen them doing.

I quoted Judes for a reason. I agree, with the fact that if you select things that are not high in fat. And if you watch what you are eating, and don't eat too much of it, you can be healthy.

But it dose not always mean that you will be small because of it. I can run up a flight of stairs, and can walk a very good distance(three miles to be exact), with out getting winded. And still because I'm not small, people tend to judge. and make assumptions. I feel this way, you can't please anyone but yourself. Whether you're big or small. So to be honest, I don't care whether anyone wants to give me support because of my weight or not. I love myself, and will keep myself happy, the hell with what anyone else thinks. Because there will be morons out there who will always have something to say. And that is because they have no life themselves, and probably don't even like themselves.

[countess]

Sugar&Spice: in the first post of this thread, i did NOT say that all overweight and obese people are necessary lazy. i specifically did not direct this debate towards those people that are naturally larger, maybe like you as you have just admitted. here is what i said in my first post:

Having said all this, i understand that in some cases its purely genetics and are illness related but iam sure many obese people out there are just eating themselves to death

Furthermore, how can you hypocritically tell others not to generalise when in the last few lines you say something like this:

Because there will be morons out there who will always have something to say. And that is because they have no life themselves, and probably don't even like themselves.

i clearly stated that i started this thread because i had conflicting thoughts on this issue, i wanted to share my opinions with others but mainly learn different perspectives so maybe i could change the many negative images i had associated with the obese/overweight. just because i dared to voice myself on this sensitive issue, and maybe because some of my views conflicted with yours, it is no reason to call those people "morons" who "don't like themselves". I think you just personally wish for that...

[Sugar&Spice]

Sugar&Spice: in the first post of this thread, i did NOT say that all overweight and obese people are necessary lazy. i specifically did not direct this debate towards those people that are naturally larger, maybe like you as you have just admitted. here is what i said in my first post:
Furthermore, how can you hypocritically tell others not to generalise when in the last few lines you say something like this:
i clearly stated that i started this thread because i had conflicting thoughts on this issue, i wanted to share my opinions with others but mainly learn different perspectives so maybe i could change the many negative images i had associated with the obese/overweight. just because i dared to voice myself on this sensitive issue, and maybe because some of my views conflicted with yours, it is no reason to call those people "morons" who "don't like themselves". I think you just personally wish for that...

I was not being hypocritical. There will be morons out there that will say nasty things. I did not generalise. Generalising would be a statement like this"All people are morons who make fun of big people." I did not make a staement like that. So what are you talking about?! There will be morons that judge people because they are big, and treat them diffrently. So I did not generalise, anything.

And I was not calling you a moron. So no it is not my personal wish to whatever you were trying to say.

You did say some pretty mean things about big people. "They take up two seats on the bus." Was one of your statements. Which is not true, I only take up one. You said, "when do you not see them eating"?" So it was you who was generalising not me.

And yes, I'm thick. I'm not ashamed of that. Because I do not overeat, and I do excerise. So YUP!! I'm big, and proud of it. So your really not saying anything that will bother me, when you said," People who are larger, like you admitted." Thats right, I admitted it, and I have not problem, with any aspect of mmy life because of it. Not even the ones who like to judge others.

[countess]

Ok, i shall now retract myself from any further conversation with the "thick" person above.. common sense and logic does not seem to be getting through. I don't seem to be getting any further insight or knowledge by taking part in the debate either. This debate thread has turned into some sort of "personal statement thread" which in turn has obviously become a one-on-one argument/conversation. I don't see why you have to be so defensive and think that i'm personally attacking you.. if you read my most recent posts closely, it clearly shows that i'm not here to do that.

OK, i tried to explain this to you before, but you don't have to think that everybody is out here to get you. if i despised fat people so much, i would take this thread into the "Anti-X" forum, but instead i kept to this one. go figure

[judes]

this thread has degenerated into senseless comments about overweight people and sex and certain people taking things way out of hand and thinking everything is a personal attack.

countess as the original poster wanted to hear other perspectives and she is not getting that, so i'm giving this thread a warning. try not to degenerate into one on one responses/arguments. i know i'm guilty of that too in some other threads, but at least try to pull the thread back to the original topic.

[Sugar&Spice]

Let me just say this. If anyone wants to adress me it is Sugar&Spice, not thick person. Thick, is what I used to discribe my size. It is not my username. So that jab was very elementary.

I agree the topic has gone off course. And I'm not to blame, I did not bring up sex, or any otherr petty points.

Back to the topic. I think that healthy eating should be encouraged, but for everyone. It is easy to say that a big person should stop eating because of diabetes, and high blood pressure. And yes they are at a higher risk, but people who are smaller and who do not eat properly, can run a risk of getting these diseases also. So the key is to eat properly. And people can live a healthyer lifestyle.

So yes overweight people should have support. Those who workout, eat right, and stay active should not be critized for being big, because some people just won't be small. I don't want tobe skinny, I just want to stay healthy. And alot of others I have seen feel the same way. But those who just sit around all day, and never work, get disability and just eat. Should be made to get up and do something with themselves. That is my statement.

Also I don't take thing personally. When I use the word "I" I want to relay personal expriences, people shouldn't get so upset over me using the word"I". But to make sure that there is no more off topic replies to topics, I deicide to change the way I post. I'm going to fall in love with my Ignore button. One click and I don't have to be annoyed anymore.

[KendoTiger]

*Cough* Ahem. I was trying to expand the debate by adding in a new perspective (as we've already covered everything else), but since it's a "joke"...

What we agree on:

Being obese is unhealthy - it carries with it many negative health problems. These problems include stress on the internal organs (heart attack), metabolism (diabetes), as well as stamina (harder time moving - weight/muscle).

It is controllable - through exercise, medication, and a healthy diet. There are a few exceptions (genetic), though rare.

Obese should be differentiated from overweight. Although being overweight is a degree of obesity, it is not to the same degree (it is better to be overweight than obese). There have been recent studies* that show being overweight reduces average lifetimes, but it does not imply that all overweight persons are in need of drastic changes in lifestyle.

What we disagree on:

Funding: Should our tax dollars (money), go towards supporting either social programs oriented towards reducing childhood obesity (or obesity in general), or later-in-life programs (medical care). Although medical-aid programs are more of a problem in Canada (socialized medicine), it is still applicable elsewhere in the world. Is there any difference between smoking and obesity?
-
Childhood obesity should definitely be funded towards reducing - as the youth will grow to run the world, it is important to create healthy, active adults. On the other hand, I do no believe that funding for medical care later in life (from problems resulting from obesity) is a correct action anymore than doing so for smokers.
-
Social support: The central issue - how do we show support for this issue? On one hand, it is important to emotionally support the obese, yet we still stress that a healthier life is better (overweight compared to being obese). How involved should we get in helping them to attain their desired lifestyle?
-
There are few people who would commit the social taboo of stating a lack of support for those who are obese. I put my full support behind those who seek a healthier life, and none behind those who don't; it is there decision - just as it is my decision to create my own opinion. Others are secure in the fact that there is nothing wrong with being large. In the end, it comes down to personal opinion - there is little that can change someone's view on what lifestyle is best. This is the reason why ideological differences, or religious differences, rarely are settled.

So how involved should we get? Should mandatory social programs be instituted, or should we continue to leave it up to the individual to decide when they are ready? Opposing this, should we cater to the large individual? It comes down to seeing obesity as a handicap or a choice. *shrugs* And that is up to you to decide.
-

Yeah, there. This debate isn't going anywhere for obvious reasons. Since no one wants to expand the discussion, I suggest we let it drop until someone new to the forums feels the urge to revive it. Then we can say everything we've said before, except it will be far enough in the future that we won't mind.

moo
moo moo moo
moo moo
momo moo mo
MOOOOOOO

judes wins.

[Gelloy]

at my place, overweight is like an ordinary problem.:rolleyes:
Because most of them that had a children always getting overweight.
Maybe it’s because the tropical climate, lifestyle and the food that contains a lot of fat and carbohydrate..:worry:

[kwonsang26]

First of all, my personal view of overweight people is not exactly a positive one. They crush the crap out of you on public transport, take up two seats when they pay for the price of one, AND, have you ever seen a fat person NOT eating in public? I also see them as being weak in the aspect of self control, it's mental.

I strongly feel that this thread is attacking obese people with the cruel remarks above.

These "opinions" could've been stated as,"I feel uncomfortable around obese people because I feel that they constantly invade my space & why can't they stop eating?"

But instead,they were presented in a hateful & offensive manner.I have loved ones who are obese,but know that I don't love them any less because of that fact.

Obesity is increasing all over the world,which is why more assistance is needed.So I was & still is baffled by the question of this thread.

So the secret all these years to losing weight was basic intelligence,willpower & the longing for a higher sex drive.I wonder why it didn't make headline news.

I've lost my weight,but people are different with different self-esteem levels.How about a compassionate support system,therapy,suggestions & diet programs for losing weight?!

Some of these degrading & disgusting remarks about obese people are probably one of the causes of obesity in society.

So to all obese or overweight people reading this thread.Please don't get discouraged because ignorance derserves pity,not anger.

Here's some weight loss advice,which I originally posted in aunt agony's advice.But I feel that it may help some people here as well,so take care & god bless!^^ :wave:

Yeah,I agree with the cardio work out to help slim down your whole body.There's aerobics,jogging,& dancing.You should also drink alot of cold water.

Because the colder the water,the more energy your body will use to make the water warm thus burning calories.When you don't drink water for a long time.Then your body tends to save that water in your body.Which adds to your weight.

But when you drink 6-8 cups of cold water a day.Your body will start flushing out that access water that's been building up in your body.

When you drink all that water.It will make you full.So you won't be as hungry.Remember,water has 0 calories.

Also,base what you eat during the whole day on a 2000 calorie diet.So that means all the food you ate in that 24 hours should not exceed 2000 calories.

Because without exercise,a average person will burn 2000 calories a day.But if you daily combine 30 minutes of cardio exercise,6-8 cups of cold water,2000 calorie diet,& determination.I guarantee you will lose 20-30 pounds in less than a week.

Keep going & you will lose even more weight.Then eventually,you would've lost so much weight that your whole body,including thighs,will have no choice but to slim down.

That's how I lost 28 pounds in 4 days.If you cheat by sneaking a snack.Then don't beat yourself up.Just eat one & don't overdo it.

Overall,hope all this works for you like it did for me & stay strong.If I can do it,then you can to!^^

[baybexangel]

i'm overweight, and i agree with basically everyone on this thread that said that overweight people need to just get off their asses and work out and diet. however, on the subject of support, i think the support from the people around you everyday (friends, family, etc.) actually plays a pretty big role into the success of the diet/exercise. i have had quite a few minor successes in dieting/exercise before, and during those times, my family and friends were very supportive of me.

recently, i have begun starting to diet and exercise again because i've gained (i admit) a lot of weight back since my last diet. however, every single day, my parents will tell me how fat i am and how i'm so lazy when i actually AM trying very hard at dieting/exercising. they know that i am, but they choose to not acknowledge it and instead choose to bring me down. for those of you who have dieted/exercised in order to lose a lot of weight, you know how difficult it is and how much willpower it takes. the fact that they degrade me every day while i'm trying to lose weight makes it that much harder. i think private support (in terms of family&friends, etc.) is a lot more important than public support (through media, etc.)

[chiru]

My health teacher said it is very rare to be born fat. Most babies should be seven to nine pounds, however in America, this can go up to ten or eleven. Mose people only THINK they were born over weight because they have been over weight all their life. However, it is usually just what their parents feed them when they are in the critical weight gain stages. (Between 12-18 months of age and 12-16 years of age.)

Most obese people learn it from their parents. Studies show that children are more likely to eat a lot if they see their parents or those they admire doing it. (This also applies to the types of foods these role models are consuming, too...)

I honestly think that the majority of obese people (not including women who just had a baby), are just lazy. I have seen my baby pictures when I was straight out of the hospital. Trust me. I was pretty fat. (Ahaha) And on top of that, I have spent my whole life eating southern Chinese and Cantonese foods. And they are REALLY oily. But I am still of pretty average weight.

I do not mind fat people. A lot of my friends were fat. But they lost it all. I used to have a friend who was 140 pounds. She went on weight watchers and now she is skinnier than me!

A lot of fat people use the excuse that it is "harder" to exercise when you are heavier. But it is easier for a fat person to lose weight. If I went on a diet and a fat person went on a diet, I would probably lose at the most five pounds, but the fat person might lose twenty. But the thing is, it would not be so "hard" if you had exercised more and prevented it from happening.

By the way, I read the first post and actually on airplanes if you are too heavy they make you buy two tickets. Which I think is good. (Many obese people think it is discrimination though....) But what they do not understand is that planes have a weight limit. -___- If you buy one ticket and take up two seats, where is that person going to sit? Plus if everyone buys a ticket for that plane, the plane will max its limit.

[broken_paper]

My health teacher said it is very rare to be born fat. Most babies should be seven to nine pounds, however in America, this can go up to ten or eleven. Mose people only THINK they were born over weight because they have been over weight all their life. However, it is usually just what their parents feed them when they are in the critical weight gain stages. (Between 12-18 months of age and 12-16 years of age.)
Most obese people learn it from their parents. Studies show that children are more likely to eat a lot if they see their parents or those they admire doing it. (This also applies to the types of foods these role models are consuming, too...)
I honestly think that the majority of obese people (not including women who just had a baby), are just lazy. I have seen my baby pictures when I was straight out of the hospital. Trust me. I was pretty fat. (Ahaha) And on top of that, I have spent my whole life eating southern Chinese and Cantonese foods. And they are REALLY oily. But I am still of pretty average weight.
I do not mind fat people. A lot of my friends were fat. But they lost it all. I used to have a friend who was 140 pounds. She went on weight watchers and now she is skinnier than me!
A lot of fat people use the excuse that it is "harder" to exercise when you are heavier. But it is easier for a fat person to lose weight. If I went on a diet and a fat person went on a diet, I would probably lose at the most five pounds, but the fat person might lose twenty. But the thing is, it would not be so "hard" if you had exercised more and prevented it from happening.
By the way, I read the first post and actually on airplanes if you are too heavy they make you buy two tickets. Which I think is good. (Many obese people think it is discrimination though....) But what they do not understand is that planes have a weight limit. -___- If you buy one ticket and take up two seats, where is that person going to sit? Plus if everyone buys a ticket for that plane, the plane will max its limit.

haha, chelsea.. i just read your post and it was pretty interesting! i didn't know that obese people have to buy 2 tickets just to get on an airplane. yeah i agree that it's kinda a discrimination. i grew up eating alot of mcdonald's too but i was underweight during my teenage years. i was never fat. some people are just naturally born fat. i've seen everyone in a family obese and it's pretty sad. i think some ppl are born fat because of their parent's genes that they have inherited from.

[alisadorsey@yahoo.co]

haha, chelsea.. i just read your post and it was pretty interesting! i didn't know that obese people have to buy 2 tickets just to get on an airplane. yeah i agree that it's kinda a discrimination. i grew up eating alot of mcdonald's too but i was underweight during my teenage years. i was never fat. some people are just naturally born fat. i've seen everyone in a family obese and it's pretty sad. i think some ppl are born fat because of their parent's genes that they have inherited from.

Yes I agree with you, that some people genetically have these genes that even when they want to lose weight, it is extremely hard for them. Therefore, that is the reason why some have lipo-suction procedures. I am tall, but I even have to watch it sometimes, because as you get older it becomes harder to lose weight. But I have been fortunate enough to keep my weight at my heights recommendation, since I do alot of sports. But some of my friends are overweight, but I love them still the same. If they want to lose weight, then I am 100% behind them, but if they choose not to, then I would not treat them any different.

It is sad that it is true that people have to buy two seats on the plane, instead of them spending the money they charge for extra luggage on making some seats larger. But we have to follow rules that are made.

But anyways, if we all eat in moderation, I do believe that we all may attain to a satisfying weight for ourselves for health reasons and for our own personal gain.

[hobielover]

A lot of obese people try not to be obese. It's not that they don't try to go on diets. Some of the people I've known who are obese actually suffer from another illness and their medicine makes them binge. A lot of medications for mental problems have this kind of side-effect. Honestly, there are a lot more people with mental issues out there than you'd think. None of them chose to be that way, and they take medication to try to help, but it's all experimental and things can go wrong. Sometimes it leads to a mental breakdown and other times it leads to obesity, but the latter is better just because the person suffering doesn't believe that everyone around them is out to kill them, so doctors keep using the medications that cause eating disorders on their patients because they're better than the alternative.

I'm the only person in my immediate family who isn't overweight. It's hard on me. My mom is always telling me not to eat this or that. I once got close to getting overweight, but not obese. Then, I got pneumonia and I lost a lot of weight. If you haven't had to get that sick to stay within the normal limits, then you have it a lot better than I do. By the time I covered after months of being sick, I could fit back in my favorite pair of jeans again. I managed to never get too big for them again and they finally wore out last month, so I've managed to avoid yo-yo dieting. When I get very depressed, though, I don't want to do a lot of exercise. I know it's bad, but I can't help it. After a while, it's hard to get back into the routine. That's how people get obese. They can just get depressed, lose all their self-confidence, and feel like any efforts they make are useless.

That being said, obese people are just regular people. They are sick, too. Shouldn't someone be caring for them? People shouldn't discriminate against them, make them pay extra for clothes, plane tickets, etc. If you know someone who is obese, you shouldn't make fun of that person. Obese people have feelings, too. You should encourage that person to get better. Offer to go on walks with them. If they tire out, cheer them on. Don't tempt them with goodies.

[chiru]

haha, chelsea.. i just read your post and it was pretty interesting! i didn't know that obese people have to buy 2 tickets just to get on an airplane. yeah i agree that it's kinda a discrimination. i grew up eating alot of mcdonald's too but i was underweight during my teenage years. i was never fat. some people are just naturally born fat. i've seen everyone in a family obese and it's pretty sad. i think some ppl are born fat because of their parent's genes that they have inherited from.
I think it is mostly bad habit. Trust me, I was really fat when I was a baby....my relatives still make fun of me for it.....

But my mother strictly controlled my diet so now I am okay...
By the way, this is random, but I am capricorn and I read that capricorns are more likely to become obese than any other sign. O_O (Jay is capricorn, too......I wonder if he will ever be fat.....)