Why do America think they're number #1!! [Archive]

hisashiluv14

02-28-2005, 10:49 AM

A little digression before I start: Not everyone is patriotic. I must be the least patriotic Singaporean in the whole country and I have a feeling that a significant number of Singaporeans would pack up and leave immediately if there ever were to be some serious security threat facing Singapore. In fact, if national service weren't compulsory, I highly doubt that we'd even have an armed forces.

That aside, a few points then:

"enslaving" other countires? From an economic standpoint, it's better for everyone that way. If they have an comparative advantage in producing the goods, it only makes sense for them to do it.

From an economic point of view, the only people who truly benefit from outsourcing (I think that's the word for it; correct me if I'm wrong) are the multinational companies. And how are you absolutely sure that developing countries have a comparative advantage in producing, for example, clothes? "Comparative advantage" is one that a country has if that country incurs a lower opportunity cost for producing a particular good, right? But just because the cost of production in terms of wages is lower in, for example, China doesn't necessarily mean that China has a comparative advantage in the production of that good; it only means that it saves companies like Nike and whatever a hell lot of money. That's all there is to it.

Still from an economic point of view, it's not necessarily "better" for factory workers in China who have worked for six months without getting paid. They try to stand up to the authority, but the end result? They get thrown into jail for standing up and demanding for what is rightly theirs, their bloody wages. Hello? We're talking about serious exploitation of "cheap labour" here, and that very phrase already, in itself, demeans the workers in developing countries as rightful human beings.

STILL from an economic POV, I can't say how you can possibly say that it's good for "everyone", since the Americans are the ones who lose their jobs when companies relocate. Ultimately, the biggest winners are the MNCs.

Economically, we're actually absolutely great.

Yeah right. Feel free to bash me if I'm wrong, but the last I checked, the US' trade deficit has been ballooning like crazy. They suffer a trade deficit with China and then goes on to accuse Chinese companies of "dumping". Produce evidence of it then! And has the national debt shrunk significantly sometime within the past six months? What about your perpetual budget deficit? Oh, and who can forget? The US dollar isn't doing too hot either; it's depreciated more in recent times than it ever has. Obviously, America isn't #1 economically either.

I used to be a big fan of America; but then again, I was 12. I don't know why America thinks it's #1, for I certainly don't think it has the goods to substantiate such a claim.

Actually, back to that thing about patriotism. I think I agree with ShuiMei here: Americans ARE overtly patriotic, and sometimes excessively and arrogantly so. I remember watching this programme on a local news channel, in which some American person was interviewing Mr. Lee Kuan Yew, who is basically the man responsible for Singapore's success and prosperity. He's a highly respected figure all over the world, and the funniest thing was, even when that interviewer was talking to LEE KUAN YEW, he still came across as overly patronising and arrogant. I thought it could be perhaps due to my anti-imperialism sentiments, but towards the end of the interview, he said something that proved me right. The interviewer was asking Mr. Lee about America's global reputation and what it has to do to ward of the spread of anti-American sentiments; Mr. Lee started to reply, saying, "While you lead the world..."

He barely had the chance to complete his sentence before the American interviewer butt in and said, "Politically, economically, culturally..."

And the most ironic thing? He was asking a question about how to reduce the proliferation of anti-Americanism, and yet he had the audacity to claim, subconsciously (which makes it the more unforgivable), that America leads the world "culturally".

Since when? Why does America think it's #1? I don't get it, really. What aspect of your culture do you think is superior to mine? And economically? I beg to differ for reasons I have stated above. Politically? Don't even get me started on George W. Bush.

The topic of the thread is "why do America think they're number one" and I'm just saying I don't think they are- at all.

Amen to that.

twink0star

03-01-2005, 12:55 AM

hahah i think this is fun ...im sowie ...but still...... americans can be a bit patriotic at times...and i think that is good ....

u cant really answer the question to why do america think they are #1 . because in many ways america is...and in many ways it also reflects that america isnt....

wats is the thing with George W.Bush ...i dont think he did anything wrong so far...ok ...maybe the gay marriage thing has gone a lil too far..... but other than that .... the War on Iraq ..i totally agree with it .... and we arent just putting soldiers everywhere....... history clearly says .... in slang....If you dont mess with America ...then America wont mess with u ...

"America leads the world...culturaly " i dont think he meant that America's culture is superior..... maybe im just looking at this at a diff point of view....... i think he means..America's culture is wide ranged ...and it is true.....dont even argue about that lol freedom of religion .freedom of speech...wat more do u want ?

i am american so i might be a bit patriotic ....but still im chinese as well ...and lived in HK and china for many years...... things in the other side of the world..here is U.S just seems better for some reason.........i dont think u can say america is #1 ...because every other country has somehting better to offer.....but still .... America still rules lol ...u can totally argue with me ...i am starting to love this whole debate issue thing

~ChinGLiSh<33

03-01-2005, 01:16 AM

I cant say that we're a wonderful country. I dont think I kno too much cuz I dont pay attention to the news. I get most of my news from world civilizations class or my friends. But anyways..it seems to me that the country's going in downfall. Our economy's going down and ppl are losing their jobs...I also heard that all this money's going into the war where many men are dying.

...we're on a downward slope.

rickisha

04-06-2005, 02:06 PM

I think the kind of American pride that is displayed is in a category of its own. It's such a tool, American politics know they can wrap themselves in a flag, shout out some pretty words about 'American the beautiful' and 'the American dream' and the public will eat it all up. .

This is definately true. Many Americans are very proud of their country,maybe even obnoxiousley proud. However this kind of pride is in most other countries. When I lived in China I saw a great deal of pride there ,people singing the Chinese anthem and showing me why their country was so awesome; stuff like that . I saw the Chinese government using this pride as a tool of propaganda just like every other country. I've had conversations with Chinese people who talk about being willing to die for their country if anything was ever to happen with Taiwan. I think this is the same kind of pride that Americans and most other people have about their country. You can't say we are overly prideful when people adore their country all around the world just as much as some Americans do.

ShuiMei

04-07-2005, 12:47 AM

This is definately true. Many Americans are very proud of their country,maybe even obnoxiousley proud. However this kind of pride is in most other countries. When I lived in China I saw a great deal of pride there ,people singing the Chinese anthem and showing me why their country was so awesome; stuff like that . I saw the Chinese government using this pride as a tool of propaganda just like every other country. I've had conversations with Chinese people who talk about being willing to die for their country if anything was ever to happen with Taiwan. I think this is the same kind of pride that Americans and most other people have about their country. You can't say we are overly prideful when people adore their country all around the world just as much as some Americans do.
but then you're comparing the nationalist propaganda of a "communist" state to a republic, seems a bit shady :whistle:

eiko

04-07-2005, 03:00 AM

i think sometimes americans can be so full of themselves...
ever notice when u listen to all the other music except english that theres always a few english words in it?? but in america all the songs just have english, no other languages are used...

blackandbluesharpies

04-07-2005, 03:08 AM

Quote:
i think sometimes americans can be so full of themselves...
ever notice when u listen to all the other music except english that theres always a few english words in it?? but in america all the songs just have english, no other languages are used...

i'm sorry eiko but i have to disagree. there are songs that has some other languages in it. not necesarrily chinese though but english is a widely spoken language that a lot of people know and can read maybe thats why there some english in chinese songs sometimes. In America its diverse and english is all a common language to us (so if the artists here was to use another languge for some words like alot of people wont know what it is). And also, its not like America forced other artists to make songs with some english in it or something it was their choice

rickisha

04-07-2005, 04:06 AM

but then you're comparing the nationalist propaganda of a "communist" state to a republic, seems a bit shady :whistle:

I just used China because it is one of the countries that I know the most about. However I do know that other countries also have great national pride. It just seemed to me that some people were saying that it's only Americans waving their flags and singing their national anthem proudly. I just wanted people to realize that that is not the case. I don't think it is wrong to have national pride, I dunno maybe its just me.

ShuiMei

04-07-2005, 05:07 AM

I just used China because it is one of the countries that I know the most about. However I do know that other countries also have great national pride. It just seemed to me that some people were saying that it's only Americans waving their flags and singing their national anthem proudly. I just wanted people to realize that that is not the case. I don't think it is wrong to have national pride, I dunno maybe its just me.
I'm not saying having national pride is wrong but when national pride gets in the way of rational thinking and correlating the politics of a nation to the love for that nation is ridiculous, particularly in the "developed western world."

Look at the how the Republican party can paint Democrats or just those who don't support the Bush administration as "anti-American," it seems totally contrived but it's obviously worked for some, otherwise my dear neighbours to the south would not have to undergo three more years of it. Look at Fox News and how successful it's been. Look at how it screams blasphemy and treason for all of those who don't support the leader of their country. People are beginning to look at political dissidence as a form of disloyalty, criticism as unpatriotic!

Bush's re-election obviously had more to it than nationalistic propaganda, but you can't say it wasn't a part of it. American politicians know it works, and that's why they do it. There's nothing wrong with being patriotic, surely there are many other countries who are equally patriotic, but it is a tool in America, and that is undeniable.

linny

04-07-2005, 08:43 AM

Look at the how the Republican party can paint Democrats or just those who don't support the Bush administration as "anti-American," it seems totally contrived but it's obviously worked for some, otherwise my dear neighbours to the south would not have to undergo three more years of it. Look at Fox News and how successful it's been. Look at how it screams blasphemy and treason for all of those who don't support the leader of their country. People are beginning to look at political dissidence as a form of disloyalty, criticism as unpatriotic!Which really is an entirely different debate when you get right down to it. I'm sure any rational citizen would agree with you that patriotism is being used as a political tool. In Bush's case, he used 9/11 to galvanize people to go against anyone with a different opinion. Most people would agree that these tactics go against democratic views since democracy is based on being able to voice your opinions. So let's just sweep the obvious stuff out of the way. I honestly don't think anyone will disagree on this point.

As for the explanation about why such things are possible? At least half the people in America are idiots. I wish there was more comfort in that statement, but that's all I can give you.

As for the question of why America thinks it's number one. Well, considering that America is only about two hundred years old and catipulted onto the world stage as a super power in a relatively short amount of time, America is liable to be arrogant and cocky until something pulls it down to its knees, which, by the way, is only a matter of time.

As an American, I can say that there are citizens out there who do NOT think America is number one in the world. Our health care system is shot, the two-party system will ruin our country, and the gap between the rich and the poor only increases with each passing day. There is a lot wrong with this country, and I won't deny that.

Please don't think the whole of America is truly that arrogant or blind. Because America is ruled by majority, the majority gets their voice heard. That doesn't mean that there aren't many others who think differently.

ShuiMei

04-07-2005, 09:07 PM

Oh, believe me when I say I don't feel that all Ameircans are arrogant and/or blind. I originally stated how I didn't feel that America was "number one" and gave my reasons why, and when others questioned my reasoning we got a little side-tracked. My comments and arguments are just a result of the direction that this conversation has moved...

amdawn

04-08-2005, 04:50 AM

america thinks it has the world power under its thumb because of its significant braindrain, which it takes from other countries and fuels its own system. it is still a place of opportunity where immigrants - brightest though poor - can rise to the top of the cream. the intellectuals come here and stay here, generating the technology, sports, arts, cultural revolution and spread it wide. due to its multi-culturalism, it is able to do that. america can infiltrate the world with its mcdonalds, disneylands, jazz, hollywood, nikes, microsoft... thru it expansive media fingers. it is actually disgusting sometimes when you can't go to a place and not see an influence of america.

SimpleBlackHumor89

04-08-2005, 05:29 AM

i dont know if the Americans think themselves as #1, just the government, that includes the president... the title of the thread makes americans sound very cocky, but there not.

on the othere hand, i think America is an aright country... melting pot of all different cultlures. i personally dont think america is number one, i mean theres' still POVERTY in the country... and those problems are not even being ADDRESSED... makes me pissed, how bush can spend billions on the war, but he wont even give money to the poor, and he's talkin about helpin other countries

you cant love someone else, unless you've learned to love yourself, that quote is very true. america, mainly the GOVERNMENT, needs to attend to America's need first.... poverty

mjj86

04-10-2005, 04:59 PM

i dont know if the Americans think themselves as #1, just the government, that includes the president... the title of the thread makes americans sound very cocky, but there not.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.. Yankees don't even bother learning foreign languages, and besides, the USA has been an imperialist power for a looooooooooooong time. History repeats itself. They crushed the native Americans, then they tried to crush communism.. for what? Let me tell you: FOR MONEY and POWER.

Of course there are nice Americans, but most of them are just dumb and arrogant.

SimpleBlackHumor89

04-10-2005, 11:27 PM

^ true, america crushed teh native americans, but while they were doing that, there was also people that supported the natives. i think it's america's government that's the problem, us americans tend to pick bad canidates, and empower them

hisashiluv14

04-11-2005, 11:43 AM

On the subject of patriotism: Sure, every country has its patriotic citizens, but there's a thin but significant difference between patriotism and excessive, arrogant patriotism.

Many Americans I've come across are excessively and arrogantly patriotic.

And one thing I hate (and I use that word because I mean it) about America is how Hollywood has this stupid penchant for remaking Asian films that are way superior to the mindless dribble it produces every year. Enough is enough. First you limit the screening of our films, and then you ruin them by remaking them? Seriously, screw you. That's all I can say.

mjj86

04-12-2005, 02:01 PM

i think it's america's government that's the problem, us americans tend to pick bad canidates, and empower them

Exactly. What surprises me most is that you guys just keep empowering a capitalist pig after another... It seems that most of you have been blinded by propaganda. It is not my intention to insult you or your country, but your educational system sucks! Maybe that's all planned by the government - an attempt to prevent people from becoming intellectuals by insidiously teaching them propaganda. It was the student movement that caused the downfall of tsarism in Russia and Maoism in China, so it is very likely that your government doesn't want a similar kind of thing to happen in America. So basically it's the government that is responsible - not the common folk.
The jury inside my mind has reached a verdict:
defendant: Bush and his corrupt buddies - GUILTY of implementing redneck policies not only in America, but all over the world.

princessKitty

04-12-2005, 04:01 PM

People hate America because of the wars that they got invovled in. of course, americans know they have got into war but we have to also remember that many americans have opposed wars. for example, the vietnam war, thousands of students protested peacefully. it was the american GOVERNMENT that stopped them form protesting. we have to think about what type of American people that people hate.

Chun Li

04-14-2005, 11:36 AM

You know what, America being "#1" should be defined in different ways.

Economy wise? Yes we're #1.
Military? Yes, we're #1.
Highest national debt? Yes, we're also #1.
Lowest high school scores? Again, #1.
Highest creativity level in terms of inventions? Perhaps.

We can be #1 in a lot of different things. I don't find it accurate to generalize the entire market.
The Japanese are #1 in mobile phone services yet quite behind us in Internet technology and usage. Therefore could you say their telecommunications or web usage is #1? No.

China is the #1 growing economy yet their GDP per capita is still around 300$.

Depends on how you measure this.

spork

04-15-2005, 05:36 AM

I find this thread interesting, but i will not venture my opinion in why I think America is number one, because frankly I am only one Asian teen out of a nation with over 270 mill with an education that is average and incomplete at best, meaning that if I chose to take a stance a lot of what I say may be inaccurate and not very smart.

But, I would like to point out one possible reason why Americans in general, to be honest mostly caucasians, think their country is #1. There is talk of GDP, of growth, of military, freedom, of technology. There are valid points on both sides of the argument, but that isn't the complete answer why or why not Americans are or think they are #1 because let's face it, the average American doesn't know America's exact GDP and they don't know squat about another country's government/freedom/military to compare their own country's stuff to.

What a lot of American's DO know and remember, however, is WWII, the end of WWII and the Cold War. Most people know through experience or through what little they grasp of history that America emerged as the dominating power in the West after WWII. France obviously was trying to piece together another government, Germany was split up, and London was a mess so America stepped in during the post-war period to help rebuild and lure smaller countries away from the idea of Communism via financial aid. Basically, America stepped in and established a very long reach over Europe that has obviously continued today and to a certain extent a lot of Americans realize that and thus believe that America is truly the strongest nation.

As you all know the baby boomers had bajillions of babies who grew up during the Cold War, and all those babies are now voting adults who are probably influencing their own kids to think the same way... A lot of those people today probably remember doing safety drills at school or home out of fear of a nuclear attack (although I highly doubt those bomb shelters would've saved them). History and the post-war period might not stick to people, but fear does and I'm sure a lot of those people looked to the U.S. government, with it's long reach in Europe and Asia to protect them. I also believe that a lot of Americans remember when the gov't flew supplies to Berlin when the USSR cut off all roads and electricity and stuff. That probably helps people believe that the U.S. is great and whatnot..

I just thought it'd be good to offer a historical perspective on why Americans think that way, because everyone's looking at the present and even though Americans in general tend to ignore history, they are influenced by their own past and stuff.

That's all i have to say. :happy:

HarmonyCloud

04-15-2005, 10:29 PM

Well You have to keep in mind right now America and its life style is much better than is some other countries, and it is true that Americans do think they are all that and a bag of chips but they do have the right to in some sense, pretty much every time America has gone to war it has come out victorious, and you can argue that it is fighting for "freedom" of other countries, and America does do a lot for third world countries, maybe not as much as it should but it is doing a lot more than some other countries like France for example. Also Schooling wise, its true that not every american is a genius, but there are intellegent people here and some of the best schools/ universities are here so that maybe why...I am not saying I agree with everything ..just stateing what I know

sky111

04-25-2005, 07:29 AM

originally from Spork:
But, I would like to point out one possible reason why Americans in general, to be honest mostly caucasians, think their country is #1. There is talk of GDP, of growth, of military, freedom, of technology. There are valid points on both sides of the argument, but that isn't the complete answer why or why not Americans are or think they are #1 because let's face it, the average American doesn't know America's exact GDP and they don't know squat about another country's government/freedom/military to compare their own country's stuff to.

Agree that most American caucasians think their country is #1. I think this might have to do with government, as well as media, propaganda. Ever notice how Americans don't get much international info on television? & Please don't say that the coverage on war in Iraq belongs to the category of "international news." Even China, a strickly-censused country, post more international news than America does. Now when it comes to bashing its competitors around the world or showing the public how great its country is, the American media is quick to cover other countries' downfalls and brag about their own achievements. America is especially good at making communism/China (also former USSR) look bad. For example, I have seen in a world history textbook a picture of a street in China. All you see on the picture are people riding bicycles. Ppl who have been to China or w/ some knowledge about the country know that streets in China are usually split into half bicycle lane and half car lane. Curiously, the picture only shows the bicycle lane. So most of the high school students who see that picture would think that Chinese people all ride bicycles and that they don't have cars........ Great indirect propaganda directly targeting the youth! The USSR was also made very mad in the same textbook w/ all its threats to the US during the cold war and overbearing actions during the aftermath of WWII. But what about the Americans? the book goes on and on about how America helped other nations & suffering ppl. How they spread freedom and democracy around the world. It barely mensions America's powerhungry wrongdoings and arbitrary behavior during its imperial era. Even when some are mensioned, they are all twisted as to not make America look too bad. When talking about wars, the battles Americans won are gloriously depicted, and the lost battles are blurred out w/ just a sentence or 2.

So when looking at every direction and all they see is how wonderful America is and how behind other countries are, no wonder Americans think they are #1.

abcd

04-25-2005, 07:34 AM

i agree 100% with everything you said sky 111....america is not educating their youth with the truth....
in my opinon, that is why american kids are not as bright as they think since the majority dont have a clue of what is going on in the world and they have almost no knowledge about other nations, cultures, and other peoples....

ShuiMei

04-26-2005, 12:32 AM

america is number one political wise not education or money money.
I wouldn't even go that far, I don't see how the United States is "number one political wise" as in what, some great beautiful democracy? :D

Well You have to keep in mind right now America and its life style is much better than is some other countries, and it is true that Americans do think they are all that and a bag of chips but they do have the right to in some sense, pretty much every time America has gone to war it has come out victorious, and you can argue that it is fighting for "freedom" of other countries, and America does do a lot for third world countries, maybe not as much as it should but it is doing a lot more than some other countries like France for example. Also Schooling wise, its true that not every american is a genius, but there are intellegent people here and some of the best schools/ universities are here so that maybe why...I am not saying I agree with everything ..just stateing what I know

I think essentially if there's anything that makes America 'Number 1,' it's the fact that America is the RICHEST country in the world, and you can basically do anything with money.

The US is #1 in the world when it comes to military, why? Well, because they have the money.
The US is home to some of the best schools in the world, why? Well, because they have the money.
The US donates millions of dollars to third world countries, more so than any other country? Personally, I'd like to see statistics for this one, but as the RICHEST NATION IN THE WORLD, the United States has a certain global responsibility to share the wealth to other less privedged nations.

I don't understand the American jihad against France, but keep in mind that after WWII France was left in shambles, as was Great Britain, and they didn't have any money really, which really allowed the US to take the world stage.

junnleenfaah

04-26-2005, 01:05 AM

mm yeah.. i think us americans can be too stuck up when we say our country is the best. we've still got as many flaws as any other country.. and a lot of people here are pretty messed up, lol. but i hafta say that our economic system is pretty good, and we're a well developed country with a well developed educational system [which i think is the most important thing to have], but i think cuz we know that, it kinda gets to our heads

spork

04-26-2005, 05:44 AM

Agree that most American caucasians think their country is #1. I think this might have to do with government, as well as media, propaganda. Ever notice how Americans don't get much international info on television?
Ooo good point there sky :P I never looked at things that way. And the part about only seeing clips of Chinese ppl on bicycles in tv and thinking that they must be inferior and poor is also a very strong point to make, assuming those news stations even show anything that isn't related directly to America.

The USSR was also made very mad in the same textbook w/ all its threats to the US during the cold war and overbearing actions during the aftermath of WWII. But what about the Americans? the book goes on and on about how America helped other nations & suffering ppl. How they spread freedom and democracy around the world.
I think that's very important to realize too...that our textbooks are written to Americans, and that a lot of teachers don't expose students to other writers of history. Personally I think the USSR was very messed up, and I base that on the experiences of a friend who left the country for U.S, so for an example I would talk about the attitudes/actions of Americans towards the Native Americans...Nobody ever pays attention to Prez. Jackson's Trail of Tears, when he forced the Cherokee (I think) off their lands and forced them to march through bad weather and stuff...It's in some textbooks, but not all, and in the ones that DO mention it, they go over it real quick so you don't think about it...

just felt i ought to comment and point it out as something very insightful :rolleyes:

plum29

04-27-2005, 09:00 AM

on a slight tangent: at the beginning of the thread, people said mentioned that other countries are patriotic too but not in the american sense. my history teacher mentioned that his friends from britain were surprised at the fact that people have the america flag hanging outside their house and bumper stickered to their cars. that pride in the flag and what it stands for doesn't really happen in the u.k. i think u.k. flag stuff is too touristy, especially in london, where every corner has a souvineur shop with flag t-shirts, pins, etc. when i visited hungary, an italian friend saw me looking at the frayed hungarian flag flying on one of the castles and said that the flag isn't considered to be the sacred/beloved object it is in the u.s. we actually have a set of rules on how to treat the flag.

will_zhng

04-27-2005, 09:19 AM

spork

04-28-2005, 05:35 AM

Yous know what, I think its a good thing Americans got bombed (not cuz im muslim or anything) but cuz i reckon they treat everyone else apart from their allies with discriminance. They are a bastard race, and i think no country in the world is as racist as americans

ok dude. wth is a "bastard race"? did you know that the majority of the white population in Australia comes from Britain? And that the asian people in Australia came from Asia, and that sometimes people like interracial marriages? if the U.S is a "bastard race" then aren't Australians one too, then?

It's true that American has a pretty conservative lot of people. But have you looked at other countries? The French have an openly fascist party that's gaining strength in gov't, slowly maybe, but it's still there. They target muslims as well, not just Americans. What about Darfur? It's a freakin' genocide frenzy down there, and the people being killed are ALL Africans.

Next time before you make a generalization, do a little research first. Read a newspaper, maybe.

Edit: that, and "American" is a nationality. thanks karen XD

scarletwillow

04-28-2005, 05:43 AM

Actually Ming, I think Americans are a bastard race.
You know how I feel about 'em.
Especially the ones one the West Coast.

They're horrible little creatures.

I reckon.

seaweedpatchkid

04-28-2005, 08:24 AM

We're a bastard race?

bas·tard
n.
A child born out of wedlock.
Something that is of irregular, inferior, or dubious origin.

Dude, we're all from the same place. Our pilgrims, your pilgrims...all from Britain. I suppose we might be a bastard race. We always talk about the mother country, but where's the father country? Oh don't get me wrong, you're in the same boat that we're in considering we're from the same mother country.

You want to talk discrimination? Did you know that America is one of the few countries that grants citizenship based on choice, not by where you were born or by your last name? Did you know that, just because our president is a conservative stupid little thing, doesn't mean we all are? WWII...we were the ones SAVING the Jewish, I believe. We were taking them in etc...

Sure we fear communism, but communism isn't a race. It's a belief. Honestly now...tell me when there was an event that occurred that involved the people (as a whole, not the decision of an of our presidents), that wasn't fueled by something else (EX: Religion).

We may be conservative sometimes, but who isn't?

If we're so bad, why do people keep trying to come to the U.S. as well?

Tell me, really. It's a learning experience. :glug:

quadshock

04-28-2005, 09:29 AM

well from statistics, Americans are better than most nations in most categories...

we spend more on military than everyone else combined, so our military's the best

as much as japanese consumer products seem "ahead", america's still the top in terms of technology

there is more freedom here than most countries

there is, believe it or not, less racism here than most countries

etc. etc.

well a few of the oens i listed were opinions, such as "less racism" since you can't really get statistics from that. but i know for sure that, a black person would have a much harder time being accepted in China than a Chinese immigrant would in the US. The one aspect that's always arguable is the "superiority" of American culture. I personally think all cultures are respectable... but what culture imitated the most? look at korea's pop culture and you'll notice how they always look up toAmerica now days. Now you see mainlanders looking up to Korea, which is indirectly following America. etc. etc.

sophstress

04-28-2005, 11:03 AM

scarletwillow

04-28-2005, 06:16 PM

Hanzo

04-29-2005, 12:32 AM

At this moment, yes America is #1 in pretty much everything, including crime rate.
but... that dosn't mean most americans are ill-educated, trailer-trash, red necks!
well maybe not most

quadshock

04-30-2005, 06:20 AM

people say Americans are full of themselves... but if you're from hong kong and you go to Beijing, it's just as bad, if not worse. i think it's really the perspective; if you experience it then it's automatically worse. if you don't hear about it as much, then you assume it happens less often...

sophstress

04-30-2005, 10:05 AM

I know what you mean when you say people from other places have a certain pride about where they're from, like people from Hong Kong are all about being born there or from there. I know a lot of Hong Kong people and though most of them are like that they also don't force it onto others to think that it's the best. It just seems that it's not enough that many Americans think they're the best, but they want everybody else to think that too, like every other country is inferior.

quadshock

04-30-2005, 11:01 AM

how is any other country superior to the US, besides perhaps culturally? ('perhaps' since everyone just looks up to the US for modern culture now days anyway). If given the chance, i bet half the world would happily move to thte US

Onigiri

05-02-2005, 02:29 AM

My friend told me that most of the people who discovered America were the youngest children of their own family. Therefore a majority of them had the younger child syndrome: that is "look at me! look at me!" and being an attention-seeker. Which is why Americans believe they are number 1!

there is, believe it or not, less racism here than most countries

etc. etc.

well a few of the oens i listed were opinions, such as "less racism" since you can't really get statistics from that. but i know for sure that, a black person would have a much harder time being accepted in China than a Chinese immigrant would in the US.

But I only think that America is only less racist due to learning from historical experiences. You know racial terms like nigger and chink were derived some time within American history? And maybe due to other cultures finding equality within its society (like Martin Luther King) America has just grown to be less rascist.

wrx'03

05-14-2005, 01:00 AM

It doesn't matter which country you go to. Everyone thinks their country is number 1. There are good things and bad things about every country, but the closed minded people are the ones that most people envision when one talks about an American.

Take for instance, when I'm in Taiwan, I see all these hippies there. They're also talking sh*t about people in Taiwan and the country in general, not realizing that I'm an American myself. I usually let them talk for a little bit and then I call them on it. They are caught off guard and have no idea what to say, but it usually goes something like this:
Them: "So you speak English pretty well huh?"
Me: "I should hope so. I was born and raised in Cali. So what's all this sh*t talking about huh?"
Them: "Oh, you know, it's the alcohol talking."
Me: "I'm about to give that alcohol an ass whoopin' if it doesn't get out of here."
Them: "Oh, sorry..." they leave.

You guys think racism in America is bad, try France. My friend's cousin (from Hong Kong) was shopping in Paris and the people working there didn't ask her if she needed help, let alone look at her or acknowledge her presence. She finally picked up a scarf and went to pay for it, with an American Express Centurion card (the one where you need to be invited to join in order to receive, reserved for individuals and companies that spend at least $100k/year). Then the attitudes of those stuck up frogs changed. Too late though, my friend's cousin put that item back and went to go shop somewhere else.

KendoTiger

05-14-2005, 03:31 AM

I'm assuming that when you say #1 you mean Americans thinking they're the best in general and not so much in terms of just economy and so forth. I'm Chinese and I was born in the US and I do think that I am very lucky to be living in a country where I can say and do things that may not be able to elsewhere. However I agree with a lot of you. Americans are full of themselves, of course I don't mean everyone, this is a generalization. A lot (not all) do think that America is better than everywhere else. Instead of being grateful for what they have in America, many just come to the conclusion that everywhere else is crap. I have an actual friend who thinks this and he happens to be a bald white guy who's in the Marines. It's because of this that many times I think Americans are uncultured and uncouth. They don't bother with much outside of what they learn in geography or history class and sometimes do think that the world revolves around America. For instance I see sometimes in shows where Americans are visiting foreign countries and get angry when the people there don't speak English. Well no crap, you're in their country, you should speak their language. As a whole I do think that America is a great country, but there are also many others, but sometimes Americans are just a little too arrogant.

This pretty much sums up my point of view.

Honestly, people love their own country the best, because its a part of who they are. Even if the freedoms aren't the best, there's curruption and violence, and the person in power is less than intelligent ~ it still becomes a part of us. In this respect, people in the us are just like people everywhere else.

As for the "less-racist" thing. I don't think it has gone down that much, it's just less evident. *shrugs* guess it depends on where you live.

I believe mostly in the future of America as that shown in Battle Royal ~ an arrogant country that bombs anyone who disagrees with them. Well, we're living up to it right now.

Based on history, Americans have taken a decidedly proactive stance in making sure that they are not in danger. This usually manifests in the us attacking other places, or using political/economic clout to get their way. It's a part of the country ~ get them before they can even think of getting us. Yeah, it really sucks, but I doubt it'll change anytime soon.

"Bastard Race"...wtf? that doesn't even make sense.

SimpleBlackHumor89

05-14-2005, 03:48 AM

i think the rights that america gives its citizens are wonderful, and i think that sometimes americans dont understand how blessed they are to have those rights, cos there are other ppl around the world, worse of then them.

but i think american has a whole lota problems, especially politically. but on another topic, like i think education in american isnt being used right. i read somewhere that 1200 was being spent on each student, but i think the classes that we take in school, america, sucks. like there should be classes on RACISM IN AMERICA, cos i mean racism played a huge part in the upbringing of the united states, and i think instead of being all academic, they should have classes on things that people deal with everyday, like frauds etc.

zhy378

05-15-2005, 10:02 AM

hmm.. it just seem more like, america just wanna be the one in charge, like of the world. for an instance, take the war with iraq, we only want em for their oil, so we can control the prices of oil, even though eventually we'll get into a battle with china...cuz u know they're catchin up to us i think. :shifty: so what, we needa kill all the middle easterns to get what we need, sure we done it before, just look at the native americans, almost wiped em out, that been done, we can do it again. :whistle:

p_ma02

06-12-2005, 11:28 AM

whatever fools,

those american fuckers would probably like to think that theyve got it all, but at the point where they pay more interest for our national debt than they can make in our gdp, they got some serious problems going on. i dont know which bastard started this thread thinking that america was still "number 1" but it obviously isnt anymore. IF either china or japan decides that it doesnt want to take anymore shit from the us treasury then the whole country is fucked. yall already see this with them jew-ass oil prices.

so the only things that uncle sam is good for now, are:
hummers, which dont make sense
barbeques, which only americans enjoy
football, which is non existent in other countries
and
nuclear weapons, which they probably wont use. ever.
oh yeah, they have some monstrous health care system, eh?

yea, america can go fuck itself
fuck the free world

oh yea, if yall are really interested in us interventionism, look up william v. spanos and martin heidegger

sorry for the language,
if it hurts you then close ur eyes or something lol

scarletwillow

06-14-2005, 07:43 AM

yea wassup g, good to see a brutha representin da good side, i know wut u mean by dem jews... goddman fuckin illuminatis controlling the whole WORLD motha fucka... man...

sagara0510

06-14-2005, 07:44 AM

i could never understand the point of all that padding in american football

its a rough game and yet they want to pad themselves up? O_O

you should watch aussie rules football

all the wear is shorts and a singlet and go the biffo... and 2 hours of running on a big oval...now THAT is a contact sport

scarletwillow

06-14-2005, 07:46 AM

It's to protect the players from 300 pounds of pure fat crashing like a tsunami into your face and splattering your body.

sagara0510

06-14-2005, 07:51 AM

i'd think the smell would get to u b4 the fat did... don't you think so?

scarletwillow

06-14-2005, 07:54 AM

I think their own body odor already destroys the olfactory system. No sense of smell is possible.

hisashiluv14

06-14-2005, 12:30 PM

Ewwww. What a lovely discussion. :laughing:

American football is stupid. Calling football 'soccer' is even dumber. English football is real football: As much as I hate it, they're still using their feet to kick a ball. No hands involved. THAT'S real football.

sagara0510

06-14-2005, 12:55 PM

american football... don't they spend majority of the time throwing the ball or holding the ball?? the only time i see them kick it is at the kick off or when they kick at goal :glug:

English football really is the real football... and far from boring.... *is a big liverpool fan* :happy:

scarletwillow

06-14-2005, 05:31 PM

princessKitty

06-14-2005, 05:48 PM

hmmm.....aint this discussion about America and not football?Even if it is about America Football, it is about America being number 1 aint it?

KendoTiger

06-15-2005, 01:56 AM

Well, America is the best at American "football", because so few countries support this kind of sport. So, I guess you could say it's number 1 ~ "football" in America originally came from Rugby, the British sport...so how did it end up being called "football"?

Yeah, they have such less-than-great names. At least during the world championships, you only hear the team's country, not their team name. Then again, I had to watch the last wc on the spanish channel, so I'm not sure I caught everything.

liliceprincess

06-15-2005, 06:00 AM

i have to say the america thinks that they are #1 because of the freeedoms that we have and how it is ruled in use...but truthfully all the countries have their own good and bad things....but america i think is from the freedom of speech and all the rights that are set for the pppl that live in the country and how we are economically...but it would not reallie put a stand on how america has to be thought as #1 overall....i mean i live here and i have seen other countries...it reallie depends on ihow the country is runned but america is beat at some categories and at others we are #1....like there are bad things about america that u only can see when u experience it or seen it wit ur eyes....america overall can be great doesnt mean that all 50 states are all great...it jus puts a stand on america overall

_eLlE-

06-15-2005, 08:54 AM

lol .. i kinda agree with liliceprincess.. to me they seem like the nomba one at everything.. like the number one place to get killl

the nomber one place to make a movie star rich (hollywood)

and all that kind of things!

zhy378

06-15-2005, 10:08 AM

what one of the things i like is how america got this big military and how we use the most and ALOT money on military when even the total of the rest of the world's military budget IS NOT even that big. but then when america isnt in charge anymore at least we got our weapons to defend ourselves, just waitin for china to take over. :shifty:

hisashiluv14

06-15-2005, 10:36 AM

The only thing I dislike about "real" football is the team names. They're so gay.
"Real" Madrid? LOL.

How about something like... The Madrid "Dirty Spaniards".
The Liverpool "Sausages".
The Berlin (?) "Scat Pornographers".

:laughing: Yeahhhh I totally see that happening, Willy. :laughing: I think Madrid's FC is one of the few FCs in Spain that have the Spanish word for 'royal' attached to it. Not too sure why. I used to like them, post-2002 World Cup, when Iker Casillas was a hot goalkeeper with awesome moves...then he began to suck (don't think dirty) and well, I'm just not a football fan. :-)

Okay, one thing I like about America is the NBA. Yeah, it's cool. The 2005 finals are broadcasted around the world in over a hundred languages. Isn't that interesting? I think it is. So uh, to relate this to the topic, America is the #1 place in the world to carve out a basketball career for yourself. Yay!

scarletwillow

06-15-2005, 10:55 PM

:laughing: Yeahhhh I totally see that happening, Willy. :laughing: I think Madrid's FC is one of the few FCs in Spain that have the Spanish word for 'royal' attached to it. Not too sure why. I used to like them, post-2002 World Cup, when Iker Casillas was a hot goalkeeper with awesome moves...then he began to suck (don't think dirty) and well, I'm just not a football fan. :-)

Okay, one thing I like about America is the NBA. Yeah, it's cool. The 2005 finals are broadcasted around the world in over a hundred languages. Isn't that interesting? I think it is. So uh, to relate this to the topic, America is the #1 place in the world to carve out a basketball career for yourself. Yay!

Yeah, America has a lot of superstars. Too bad they suck compared to the rest of the world in basketball O_o
I forgot what country beat American in the Olympics... but it was hilarious. Was it Haiti? Puerto Rico? One of those 'guays? I forgot. But anyways, they're gonna pay for that, you'll see. No one fucks with Uncle Sam without having a mysterious US Delta Force backed coup. Yep, that's right. You heard it right here.

I'm gonna run before the CIA co

sagara0510

06-16-2005, 02:27 AM

the country that beat them probably no longer exists jialiu cos its been nuked off the face of the planet for beating USA in the Olympics :oops:

powerlessangel

06-26-2005, 11:11 PM

it is partially because we outsiders are hooked on to all things american.....the americans are smart enough to realise that they are in huge demand from tv series to singers to food to clothing........thus, by using this to their advantage, they are hoping to impose their culture on another country so as to ensure the stability of their economy......this is called cultural imperlism....which is something the americans are trying to do and something which we outsiders are allowing it to happen in our own country

zhy378

06-30-2005, 02:59 AM

good point powerlessangel

though lookin at the news these days, is it me or america isnt that democratic as it seem to be, like look at canada, its already ready to legalize same-sex marriage, even america isnt doin that , and i thought this was the land where everyone is equal. :whistle:
plus we dont even have the right voting system, :dry:

powerlessangel

06-30-2005, 08:14 PM

It is the same here in britain too. In the recent election, tony blair was smart enough to realise that he is no longer in favour and decides to make use of whatever power he has to make sure or rather force people to support him. The tactic he used was superbly clever This wasn't widely debated around the whole world thus noone outside of britain knows much about 'corruption' within the country. but there is such practices here and i have a feeling they make sure it is not printed in the newspapers.
democratic is slowly disappearing into thin air......you see big power like USA choosing not to be democratic and slowly over the years, you will see countries following USA......to these countries, whatever america do is great and clever. britain is already starting to be influenced.......now there will be more to come.

masterxkae

07-02-2005, 10:37 AM

countess

07-02-2005, 04:24 PM

Simple, because we are the richest and most powerful. An average american's salary is equal, if not more, than an average asian person in asia's salary. ha, I dont' knwo if that make sense. like the average american that earns 35,000 a year or so makes more than how much the asian people make in like a couple of years or life time. Well, I'm talking about the poor part of china. HA

Man, at the rate you're going the downfall of US will be just round the corner. And no, your thing about the salary didn't make sense. If you wanted to compare wages between countries then you have to take into consideration of the currency differences. I'm not anti-american but some of you guys are full of it. Simply by saying "richest and powerful" does not mean anything.... Define rich? Does that mean the unemployment rate is lower than other countries? Living standards are better? i don't think so...obviously iam comparing these things to Developed countries here...

And Power? i think that the US is pushing it's limits...it's not because other countries aren't powerful, it's because they don't want to fight for reasons that benefit themselves..eg Iraq. but that's another whole debate and i will not go into it..

KendoTiger

07-06-2005, 10:44 PM

In America, the biggest threat to democracy is not the abuse of power, it is the restriction of freedoms by an overly-conservative group that currently controls all three branches of government. Yet even this cannot be claimed as the sole source of decline ~ part of the party system within the US allows for these swings in conservative/liberal power changes for the best of the country ~ they keep the country within a moderate range of action. Within time, a more liberal group of representatives will be elected and lessen the severity of these conservative actions ~ just like how the conservatives in power reduced the sharpness of reform from far-liberal actions.

At this point in time ~ due to the conservatives being in power, it is harder to push any kind of reform that is liberal enough to include gay-marriage. If you look at the regulations, gay couples are granted equal rights to heterosexual couples (in most parts of the country), they are just not considered "married".

There is corruption and use of political clout in any country ~ there is actually a surprisingly larger amount is other countries *cough*prc*cough*. In democracy, despite a tendency by people elected to believe they have a "divine right" after a few years ~ bushy -_-" ~ they still are able to be easily removed from power if they can be proven to have committed wrong. This is unlike any other form of government, in which a person ruling has free rule to commit these types of crimes against the people. Just look towards the impeachment of Nixon.

Then again, if you were to take a look towards Putin's administration, he has taken some fairly LARGE actions towards seizing power ~ but it is a general move away from democracy, not the corruption of it ~ well, you can argue a little... Back to the point, it is up to the people to say "we are fed up with your crap, get outta the chair, 'king'". Just another reason why the freedoms of the press ~ part of US democracy, is cool.

When you look at the standard of living within America, it is still amoung the best in the even developed countries. I believe that only Sweden spends more government capita on its citizens than the US.

Seperately, based on global exchange rates, the average income of an American citizen is well ahead of that of other's in the developed world. Based on an article ~ I'll dig it up if you want, American's make an average of about $35,000 per year (US Dollars). In Japan, its about 27,000 (usd), and Britain, its about 25,000(usd) ~ not positive about the Britain one, but its around there, maybe a little less.

Healthcare wise, government program wise, the US is still within the top five countries that provide the best (in terms of medical technology, availability, cost, speed, and a few more factors) ~ I believe that Sweden, Canada, and Australia are before the US, but I can't be positive.

Power-wise, due to the US' economic capabilities, and current level of military technology/supply, and a reserve of Alaskan oil, the US is the strongest nation (politically and military) in the world to date. Within the next 10-20 years, it is likely that the US will remain within the top five economic powers of the world (I believe it is currently 1st, with Japan, China, and SG leading closely). Again, I can back this up if you want. To say that the US isn't the most powerful country to date is a wrong answer, boys and girls.

Other countries are powerful, and could probably devastate the US, but the US would win in the long term. I agree with you that they are usually unregarded because they do not chose to use their power as quickly ~ it's not that they can't, just that they don't have much of a reason to fight.

Ironically, it wasn't until the US was bombed at Pearl Harbot that we began taking a proactive stance of "defense". Before, the US was amazingly isolationist ~ we didn't even enter the war with the Jews being massacred. Since we were bombed, we started to "jump into" the world's activities. This included such great actions as the Cuban Missile Crisis' Resolution, and such crap as the "Bay of Pigs" ~ not to pick on Kennedy, I just mentioned him 'cause.

Think about it ~ the only reason we went into Iraq was because we were on a Post 9-11 high, and Bush thought he could feed off of it while a)removing a dictator, b)helping the economy of the middle east/stabilization, and c)get himself reelected. Had this not occured, we would probably not be as easily directed into such a long war/occupation as we have been.

Rather than have you look back to what I wrote before on my US stance, I'll say this:

I love the US. I believe it's a great place to live. It's my home. But I'm not saying it couldn't be better.

ShuiMei

07-10-2005, 08:38 PM

It doesn't matter which country you go to. Everyone thinks their country is number 1. .
Everyone thinks their country is number one? Doubt it. I don't think my country is "number one," mind that I think that my country is wonderful and a great place to live but I would not be so arrogant as to say that "Canada is the number one country in the world." I like my country, but I feel no reason to parade it around in blind adoration, there are many problems with my country, as there are in all countries. Furthermore, my friend was in Germany a few years ago and it appears that they don't think their country is "number one" either, far from it, German nationalism, according to my friend, is very low, but given its history, it's understanding; however, that doesn't change the fact that not everyone thinks that their country is "number one." There's being proud, there's being patriotic, and then there's being arrogant, leaning on the side of ignorance.

scarletwillow

07-20-2005, 08:09 AM

Everyone thinks their country is number one? Doubt it. I don't think my country is "number one," mind that I think that my country is wonderful and a great place to live but I would not be so arrogant as to say that "Canada is the number one country in the world." I like my country, but I feel no reason to parade it around in blind adoration, there are many problems with my country, as there are in all countries. Furthermore, my friend was in Germany a few years ago and it appears that they don't think their country is "number one" either, far from it, German nationalism, according to my friend, is very low, but given its history, it's understanding; however, that doesn't change the fact that not everyone thinks that their country is "number one." There's being proud, there's being patriotic, and then there's being arrogant, leaning on the side of ignorance.

Well, yeah, that's true.
Canada can't be number one, because of Quebec, just like France can't be number one because of France.

ShuiMei

07-20-2005, 08:28 AM

Well, yeah, that's true.
Canada can't be number one, because of Quebec, just like France can't be number one because of France.
What's wrong with Québec? :glug:

I think Québec's place in this country (Canada) is essential, and Québec has done a lot for Canada...

Most of our Prime Ministers in the past 50 or so years have come from Québec, and Québec's culture and language helped make Canada a more diverse country in its early years, in fact, were it not for Québec and the pressures it put on the Canadian government in the past, I don't think Canada would have been as open-minded and multicultural as it is now. The Canadian government had to compromise and learn how to accept differences and tend to those different needs early on, it was a great way to prepare them and set them for the future. Of course there were a number of factors played a role in today's 'free-society,' but Québec has played a large role in what makes Canada so great, we should appreciate it.

scarletwillow

07-20-2005, 03:48 PM

What's wrong with Québec? :glug:

I think Québec's place in this country (Canada) is essential, and Québec has done a lot for Canada...

Most of our Prime Ministers in the past 50 or so years have come from Québec, and Québec's culture and language helped make Canada a more diverse country in its early years, in fact, were it not for Québec and the pressures it put on the Canadian government in the past, I don't think Canada would have been as open-minded and multicultural as it is now. The Canadian government had to compromise and learn how to accept differences and tend to those different needs early on, it was a great way to prepare them and set them for the future. Of course there were a number of factors played a role in today's 'free-society,' but Québec has played a large role in what makes Canada so great, we should appreciate it.

Dear, I was making an ignorant French joke.

Although I have to say, I dislike diversity in a country.
Diversity, however you'd like to argue it, I believe creates more problems for national identity than anything else.
A country with a homogenous population and a single language will find much less internal strife and a clearer way to prosperity than one without.

hisashiluv14

07-20-2005, 04:26 PM

A country with a homogenous population and a single language will find much less internal strife and a clearer way to prosperity than one without.

Okay, I hate to go all 'i love my country we are so great' rah rah rah propaganda-like but when I read that it just reminded me of Singapore. I mean, the population is far from being homogeneous, we don't have a single language but for a country this small, we're pretty prosperous. Somehow, the majority of the people here really buy into the whole nationhood thing and the last major race-related riot that occurred was in the 1960s. And those few incidents were so isolated that they're being brought up again and again and again, ad nauseum, to stress the importance of racial harmony, even though they didn't happen on a very large scale.

Great, I'm sounding like a government-sponsored History textbook. How nauseating. I'm just saying that diversity doesn't necessarily lead to internal strife, nor does it get in the way of building a nation or prosperity for a country. Still, you can argue that whatever prosperity we enjoy is short-term at best because of the lack of a really strong, significant local culture, and then there's the whole language issue. Everyone is forced to be bilingual but some end up mastering not a single language because of the way they were brought up and the way their linguistics were distorted at a young age due to the ignorance of their parents with regard to the use of proper English, proper pronounciation (extends to Chinese too) yadayada. Hopefully this makes sense because I've forgotten what my initial point was.

Think about it ~ the only reason we went into Iraq was because we were on a Post 9-11 high, and Bush thought he could feed off of it while a)removing a dictator, b)helping the economy of the middle east/stabilization, and c)get himself reelected. Had this not occured, we would probably not be as easily directed into such a long war/occupation as we have been.

I agree with that.

ShuiMei

07-21-2005, 03:45 AM

I can see where you're both coming from, I suppose in some respect our diverse society makes it difficult for Canadians to really have a clear national identity, atleast that's the idea that I've been fed all my years in the public education system; however, I'm happier believing that our culture and our Canadian identity is an amalgamation of other cultures, working together to create a 'cultural mosaic,' where people of different ethnicities and backgrounds can come together and live in a diverse society and all that other pretty crap.

Let's face it, the world's getting smaller and we're all mixing together xD, Canada's just one step ahead of the globalized world :D

also I think Canada's doing pretty well in terms of prosperity, we are the only G8 nation with a surplus and whatnot, and slowly but surely, paying down that infamous national debt.

scarletwillow

07-21-2005, 05:21 AM

Okay, I hate to go all 'i love my country we are so great' rah rah rah propaganda-like but when I read that it just reminded me of Singapore. I mean, the population is far from being homogeneous, we don't have a single language but for a country this small, we're pretty prosperous. Somehow, the majority of the people here really buy into the whole nationhood thing and the last major race-related riot that occurred was in the 1960s. And those few incidents were so isolated that they're being brought up again and again and again, ad nauseum, to stress the importance of racial harmony, even though they didn't happen on a very large scale.

Great, I'm sounding like a government-sponsored History textbook. How nauseating. I'm just saying that diversity doesn't necessarily lead to internal strife, nor does it get in the way of building a nation or prosperity for a country. Still, you can argue that whatever prosperity we enjoy is short-term at best because of the lack of a really strong, significant local culture, and then there's the whole language issue. Everyone is forced to be bilingual but some end up mastering not a single language because of the way they were brought up and the way their linguistics were distorted at a young age due to the ignorance of their parents with regard to the use of proper English, proper pronounciation (extends to Chinese too) yadayada. Hopefully this makes sense because I've forgotten what my initial point was.

I agree with that.

Well, Singapore is also a very small country, and Singapore is a very economics-oriented country, with much less focus on internional power or international standings.

When I give my examples, I'm talking about economic powerhouses. The best examples I can give are Japan and Germany.

As for cultural mixing, I dislike it.
The best example I can give here is South Korea. What's Korean culture now? Who sets it? Americans?

ShuiMei

07-21-2005, 06:54 AM

I guess when you put it that way I understand, and to a certain extent, agree with you too, the 'modern world' has been slowly 'Americanized' this past decade or so, but I'm not talking about that kind of 'cultural mixing' that's more like cultural imperialism and the exportation of western culture and ideals, which I'm not very fond of either.

I'm talking about the integration of multiple cultures into one culture, where the multiple cultures can still continue to thrive and will not 'disappear' or 'fade' into the dominant culture, the whole integration vs. assimilation idea, that's what I (want to) see in Canada, which could really be a microcosm of the globalized world.

scarletwillow

07-21-2005, 09:00 AM

Well, to be honest, I don't know how the situation is in Canada, but where I live in the United States, if race relations are a microcosm of the world, the world is doomed.

I honestly can't imagine living in an area without racial strife, because to be honest, after growing up around it, I feel as if it's almost a good thing to experience sometime in your life.

Haha, you seem to be fairly nationalistic for a Canadian. Not demeaning in any way, that comment. Just runs very contrary to American perceptions of Canadians.

ShuiMei

07-21-2005, 10:13 AM

I think there's always going to be racial tension, don't get me wrong either, there's plenty of it here in Canada too, but so long as we can aim for a society where racism will not be tolerated and minorities are protected from the majority I don't think the future's completely hopeless. We can't escape racial conflict but we can handle it in different ways. People do change their minds, racism is a learned behaviour afterall, and it's not just with race either, things like homosexuality have become more widely accepted over time, there's always going to be 'those people' who won't be able to accept other people's differences. The government's role in such developments is key though, we recently legalized same-sex marriage in Canada and although there's some heavy opposition, there's no doubt in my mind that mindsets will change and five, ten years from now most of us will ever wonder why it was such a big deal in the first place.

A multicultural society where each culture can survive alongside others is ideally what I'm hoping for, but I think I'm just a tad bit too optimistic sometimes; however, everyone's so damn cynical as of late, it really gets to me. I like being hopeful and believing in pretty ideas, people can say what they want about my naïveté, but I much prefer to be optimistic :3

I suppose I am fairly nationalistic, I would have never said so myself, but that's a pretty fair assessment :D I never really was before to be quite honest, but that was before I went all psycho at 16 and started getting into politics...

...and we're getting off-topic.
So, speaking of assimilation and integration, that's one of my problems with the United States, it seems to me that it's more about assimilation rather than integration with cultures. There's a very common belief among Canadians that we are a 'cultural mosiac' as opposed to the United States, which is, apparently, a 'melting pot,' and that really just rubs me the wrong way.

Now I am a silly little Canadian who does not live in the United States, so if my neighbours to the south would be ever so kind as to give their honest opinion on this, I would be interested to hear it. Is 'America the Great' and 'the Land of Free' really just a huge freaking melting pot that wants everyone to conform to their mainstream, dominant culture? Because that's certainly what everyone here thinks.

KendoTiger

07-29-2005, 11:02 PM

Definitely true.

Whenever someone who has a preexisting culture moves into a new country, in which the culture is decidedly different, there tends to be some "culture shock": problems adapting to a new culture reinforce isolation and a desire to group with similar people from their past culture. This creates such communities as the "chinatowns", "little saigons", and "amish counties" ~ and is the basis for a 'cultural mosiac".

Unfortunately for America, despite this happening to a certain degree, the prominant attitude through much of the US' history, and even present today, is the "you're in america, so speak american" attitude ~ one of assimilation rather than integration of new cultures. Still, the adoption of "foreign" culture has proceded as more and more of the country becomes ethnically diverse.

Sorry, but both of your quotes are in regards to things other than the topic. "America is great" is based on patriotism and equity, whereas "Land of the Free" is based on racial equality.

Still, in regards to the "melting pot" concept, I can say that there is more integration than assimilation ~ although that wasn't true in the past. It is now only the hard-line conservatives and the rural populace they represent, that truely emphasize assimilation over integration.

Could you tell me what the dominant culture is? You mean like, american eagle - white prep/jock style?

seriowane

08-10-2005, 02:32 AM

It's ok for Americans to feel that they are #1. They were the first country to send a man on the moon. They saved France and England in WWI and WWII and they saved a lot of Asian countries from Japan. Nobody ever appreciates what the U.S. has done for other countries. If it weren't for the U.S., the French would be speaking German right now. Yea, the U.S. made mistakes in the past but its still a great country. American influence is everywhere.

princessKitty

09-25-2005, 09:02 PM

Hmmm.....ok i get what you are saying here seriowane . but it isn't america that has gone in there and became 'superman'.
look at vietnam for example. it now divided by the 17th parallel because a few captilaist countries fear that russia and china would influence vietnam to become a communist. so what do they do. go to war! yeah, war, war is the only answer,(according to capitalists). nothing else seems to work.
so now, vietnamese people are everywhere, you see them in Britain, America, Europe, Australia, everywhere because they had to esacape. same with every country that has been a victem of war. because of war, they were forced to leave there homeland and runaway to a place where it is much safer. and where is it much safer?at the enemies hands, America, Britain and France.

BUT, on the other hand, America established the united nations(woodrew wilson), :-) helped captured saddamm huessin(with a few lifes lost but of course, your bound to lose some soldiers because it is war) and they.....er.....well yeah. :-)
so in my opnion, i feel that we are all the same, we all have goods and bads. the only thing we all have incommon is selfishness and everyne has it. but, sometimes we feel like this accidently and of course, we do feel bad afterwards.

so personally, i like america, lovely people and everything is bigger and better.
but at the same time, i feel that they are TOO freindly that they over exagerrate. the entertainment is sometimes suggest a sexual comment and the music is the same too. i feel that they smetimes take advantage of things like fast food. they don't know how to look after themselfes. they overeat junk food and become obese whearus people in third world countires are starving, willing to eat ANYTHING. but i feel everywhere else is the same. :shifty:
but america, doesn't think they are number one, but the way how people percieve america is snobbish, selfish,-have-to-get-invovled-in-everything country becuase they remember the bad things that america has done. so lets all think about the good things that great america has done and so peole would not have so much hate. :-)

sleepin'tom

10-01-2005, 07:07 PM

BUT, on the other hand, America established the united nations(woodrew wilson), :-) helped captured saddamm huessin(with a few lifes lost but of course, your bound to lose some soldiers because it is war) and they.....er.....well yeah. :-)
Err... America didn't establish UN. The formation of UN was agreed at Yalta conference by delegates from 50 countries in San Francisco on 25 April 1945. America founded the League of Nations by Woodrow Wilson which failed miserably.

Ah yes... They did capture Saddam Hussein and those people who used their slippers to slap Saddam Hussein's statue are slapping themselves now.

so personally, i like america, lovely people and everything is bigger and better
They are certainly friendly when the judicial turn the blacks into scapegoats, albeit the treatment of blacks has gotten much better now looking back at the early years of slavery.

Btw, I think USA is number 1 now and China is threatening her number spot and she is increasingly worried about it. Who is not worried about his no.1 spot?

princessKitty

10-04-2005, 01:26 PM

Hmm..sleepin'tom, you seem to have a habit of replying everything i post. :dry:

anyway, i get confused with the UN and the League of nations. sorry for the mistake everyone.

China threatening? How? :glug:

darkangeldori00

10-04-2005, 05:12 PM

I totally agree. THe U.S. thinks htat they can do anything and change everything and they cant. Sometimes htey just make things worse. Its like the movie Team America. That is what the U.S. is. THey think thay are number one because htey are all fools

arcangel

10-05-2005, 06:48 AM

my thought is if they really are number one then they should make themself useful, by capturing or eliminating all those terorist for example

Arkiro

10-08-2005, 03:26 PM

For me I don't consider any country number "1" and I think nobody should think like that :worry:, cause that's where all the hatred comes :rifle:. Maybe some country may be good cause they got money or other got technology, but that doesn't make them best :wink2:.

All we can do is love out country or any other country and take care of it, but never say it's number "1" :angel:.

zhoudaoyan

10-11-2005, 05:30 PM

It's not really the whole country, it's just the majority. In every country there are bound to be racists. it's just that maybe America has the most??? haha. well i guess it's because of their strong economy and how they've just had power in the industries for sooo long. that they just have gotten used to being number 1. they've got huge pride.. but yeah. not saying all of them...

Sting

10-11-2005, 07:06 PM

that's because they have george w bush as their president.

KendoTiger

10-13-2005, 02:07 AM

How can someone have 16 rep points after 17 posts ~ when this one is one sentence long?

Anyways ~ to clarify a few things:

PrincessKitty:
The United States did not start the Vietnam War ~ the Northern Communists did. In the early years of the war, American only pledged military aid, not direct support. Also, most of the international Vietnamese you see were southern, anti-communist Viets who fled ~ much like many Chinese fled to escape the PRC.

"at the enemies hands, America, Britain, and France". Please, get your history right ~ the Southern Vietnamese who fled the communist revolution of Vietnam were allied to the US, Britain, and French forces (although it was originally France's idiocy that lead to the war...anyways).

Sleepin Tom:
The UN is centered around the five main powers that ended WW2 (the security council, I believe), of which America is a part ~ there are rotating positions so that the vast majority of other countries have an opportunity to be a part of this security council.

Judiciary turning blacks into scapegoats? ">_> please show me evidence that supports your argument. Oh ~ and be sure to look at demographics of crime in conjunction with racial placement (of course, in relation to racial breakdown of prison population). Honestly....

Threatening what spot? Please be more specific.

...Like the Tifa icon though...

DarkAngelDori00
Please, when watching a movie, especially Team America, you need to realize that there is political slant. Otherwise, you are just blindly accepting something as the truth. If you still agree with it, then aren't you being as blind and stupid as you claim Americans to be?

"THey think thay are number one because htey are all fools". If you're going to insult everyone from a country, at least use proper grammer ">_> .

ArcAngel
They are leading an international effort to eliminate terrorists ~ besides the Middle East, they are also focused on South East Asia.

ZhaoDaoYan
America has the most? Lmfao ~ Chinese people are some of the most racist people in the world. How can you say America has the most XD, when China outnumbers the US by three times their population? (based on previous atlus?). Lol ~ anyways...

Sting
It's not like we wanted him to win...just a lot of conservatives who believe morality comes before intelligence.

Fufufu ~
America are as jingoistic* as other countries ~

*jingoistic: to be extremely nationalistic to the point of ferver (might be different conjugation).

Chun Li

10-16-2005, 09:50 AM

People pick on America because it's the number 1 world power in terms of military strength, and more importantly, media. It's the same reason why people hate Jolin, or Jay, or Hamasaki Ayumi, etc.

Mike

10-17-2005, 06:46 AM

There Chun Li basically summed it up, they think they're number 1 because they basically are. As the most powerful nation in the world America earns that title. That doesn't mean that the power can be abused but because America is #1 the US gets a lot of critique for its every action, not that the mistakes are excused but too many people look up to america to get things right. america is corrupt what do you expect.

ShuiMei

10-17-2005, 11:12 AM

I don't think it's so much that everyone looks up to America to 'get things right,' I don't think anyone's expecting the country to be perfect, but because of America's sheer size in terms of power in the world, everything they do, and moreorless every twitch and grunt, will effect everyone else in this world, and when they do things that don't 'jive' too well with other nations, obviously they're going to be upset, irked, annoyed, etc.

I'll be the first to admit that we have monstrous expectations of the United States, but with respect to that, as the most powerful country in the world the United States has a certain responsibility to the rest of the world and its international neighbours. You can't have the power without the responsibilities, and its something that the United States won't be able to escape so long as they are a world leader in this global community- they influence us all.

jfanny123

10-20-2005, 08:46 AM

I don't get why America is such a country everyone looks up to!! I hope one day China will be the leading country of the world!!

Azns_Ang3l

12-02-2005, 12:20 AM

i dont know ..? lol i mean america is the most advanced place with technology sorta i think isnt it? plus it has bunch of different people living there to learn more about didn cultures plus america is big for a country and the people here are advanced :D

Sting

12-02-2005, 02:27 AM

because america have much more stripclub in the world than anybody else. ;)

Winston

12-02-2005, 04:07 AM

I don't see peoples fuss with american's. To me american's are every single race, they're pretty multi-cultural, so to be anti-ameircan, you'd be pretty much anti-every race.

azn_babii_gurl

12-02-2005, 11:01 AM

america is corrupt what do you expect.
cant agree more. america is corrupt america is corrupt america is corrupt. hurricane katrina (+ hurricane rita) bit america on the ass. its karma.

chineseguyjl

12-04-2005, 11:13 AM

dam, everyone took the words out of my mouth. US is #1, in almost every prespective. On downside is the fact that they have an enormouly large debt. and to everyone that lives in california, you know how the governor (or governator, you have to be here to know what i mean) sucks @$$. and plus the crappy president that sent troops over to iraq to fight a war. WHY you ask? cause for revenge of what happened during his father's presidency. what a big douchebag. so YES, AMERICA IS CORRUPT AND #1

narniapooh

12-04-2005, 11:36 AM

I'm not saying having national pride is wrong but when national pride gets in the way of rational thinking and correlating the politics of a nation to the love for that nation is ridiculous, particularly in the "developed western world."
Look at the how the Republican party can paint Democrats or just those who don't support the Bush administration as "anti-American," it seems totally contrived but it's obviously worked for some, otherwise my dear neighbours to the south would not have to undergo three more years of it. Look at Fox News and how successful it's been. Look at how it screams blasphemy and treason for all of those who don't support the leader of their country. People are beginning to look at political dissidence as a form of disloyalty, criticism as unpatriotic!
Bush's re-election obviously had more to it than nationalistic propaganda, but you can't say it wasn't a part of it. American politicians know it works, and that's why they do it. There's nothing wrong with being patriotic, surely there are many other countries who are equally patriotic, but it is a tool in America, and that is undeniable.

Patriotism is a tool used in many other countries, not just the US to get people to do things. I'm not denying that, but using that to chip away at America's reputation isn't very fair. It's like accusing a certain group of people of using water to make lemonade. Everyone uses water to make lemonade.

In response to that, I think Fox News is total BS too. :) However, Fox News represents just one tiny speck in American poiltics and even a smaller speck when you look at America as a whole....You can't generalize it and use it describe the entire country. Every country has its faults and its strengths. How can you use ONE company and ONE person to describe an entire nation..?

Although I guess you could counter that by saying that all Iraqis aren't like Saddam Hussein and all of middle east isn't evil. But that's not the point. What I'm trying to say is that these issues are always complex. You can't "hate" a country for being patriotic just because you think one person is an idiot.

Having read through many of the posts here, I can see a lot of America bashing....But the point is...pretty much ALL people believe "their country is number 1" right? It's just a matter of patriotism. And to all of the Bush bashers out there, a lot of people in America don't like him either. While he is the president of the US, keep in mind that one man cannot represent accurately and completely the values, ideas, and sentiments of all Americans. As an elected official (and remember not unanimously elected) he represents only a portion of Americans, and not all.

KendoTiger

12-05-2005, 07:04 AM

Bush is the first president elected based on "morality" rather than economic stance. Yeah ~ it says a lot about what the nation (in general) is thinking. Check out the full election results ~ including the polls on why the general populace voted for each candidate.

Corrupt? Could you tell me how? I can so totally bash the PRC when comparing it to the US. Yeah ~ no one who is metropolitan especially likes Bush; honestly, I think he's an idiot. Not a bad guy, just an ass when it comes to making smart decisions. I still don't believe that makes him corrupt.

Corrupt:
Marked by immorality and perversion; depraved. Venal; dishonest. Archaic.

Even if the US has been acting in a very stupid way (Washington does not always reflect all of the US' beliefs), I do not believe you can say it is "corrupt".

...has the most strip clubs. Yeah, right. Either back up your stance, or please don't make such a stupid quote. If you were to actually check, prositution is much more widely spread in other parts of the world ~ owing to the fact that the US has a stronger security net (police forces) in general.

The "everyone thinks their country is the best" statement.

rhyslud

12-05-2005, 07:27 AM

A guy I work with told me (with a great deal of pride) that "America is #1 because we can blow anybody else off the face of the map".

When I reminded him that there are other countries with significant nuclear capabilities, he said, "Yeah but we can blow everybody off the face of the map . . . twice".

It's people who take pride in this sort of thing that makes the US less than #1.

If we could only develop precision weapons that could seek out and destroy idiots America would be a better place.

We'd also have to find a new president,:-)

POTO

12-05-2005, 08:32 AM

Ever since after WWII, American has been regarded by almost all the countries in the world as a "big brother" because of their very strong military power and economic influence. They always think that they're no1. cause they have always been told that way, however, now that china is on the rise... Who knows who will be no.1 in the near future...

rhyslud

12-05-2005, 08:39 AM

now that china is on the rise... Who knows who will be no.1 in the near future...

I knew I was learning Chinese for a better reason than understanding Jay Chou songs:D

I'll be able to say "don't shoot"!

narniapooh

12-06-2005, 05:55 AM

A guy I work with told me (with a great deal of pride) that "America is #1 because we can blow anybody else off the face of the map".
When I reminded him that there are other countries with significant nuclear capabilities, he said, "Yeah but we can blow everybody off the face of the map . . . twice".
It's people who take pride in this sort of thing that makes the US less than #1.
If we could only develop precision weapons that could seek out and destroy idiots America would be a better place.
We'd also have to find a new president,:-)

Develop precise weapons as well as fine tune the social skills of the president -______-. But AMEN to your last sentence! :lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove:

Melvin

12-06-2005, 08:55 AM

It is not a matter of America thinking they are number 1, they KNOW they are number one....

Military wise - they can probably invade any country in the world, and have enough nuclear bombs to blow up the world many times over, as they say

America promotes freedom... it said it invaded Iraq for the reason of giving freedom to the people of Iraq... and they really think that the Iraqis are stupid poor fools... human rights activists in america speak out against abuse of prisoners, but do America mean what they say?? they even approved the torturing of detainees at the Abu Gharib prison...

just like any other wrongdoer or criminal, they always like to deny any wrongdoing at first.. at what point do they admit their mistake? only when they can't hide it anymore!!

its a joke how they talk about global warming and damage to the natural habitat of animals and subsequently and eventually us, as with all their factories competing, they are probably the greatest producers of ozone unfriendly gases and pollutants..

you say you need a change of president... well i think a concerted effort is needed to make a change, if any.... Would a more forceful and zero-tolerance president be the answer?

but then again, you can't say that their really that bad... they do try to help other countries

narniapooh

12-09-2005, 09:51 AM

it said it invaded Iraq for the reason of giving freedom to the people of Iraq... and they really think that the Iraqis are stupid poor fools... human rights activists in america speak out against abuse of prisoners, but do America mean what they say?? they even approved the torturing of detainees at the Abu Gharib prison...

1. Not everyone supported going into Iraq. And now that we're there, a LOT of people want to pull out.
2. Americans are just as infuiriated over the prison as the civil rights activists. Newsweek, Time, etc. put it on the front cover and hundreds of letters poured in condemning what those soldiers did from equally disgusted and enraged Americans. So how is that in any way "approving" of the torturing? Don't forget that those soldiers were courtmartialed and are being sentenced.

its a joke how they talk about global warming and damage to the natural habitat of animals and subsequently and eventually us, as with all their factories competing, they are probably the greatest producers of ozone unfriendly gases and pollutants..
you say you need a change of president... well i think a concerted effort is needed to make a change, if any.... Would a more forceful and zero-tolerance president be the answer?

Haha, America IS the greatest producer of ozone. But that doesn't mean not all of us are trying to change...again, a lot of people in this country are disatisfied with the presidency/adminstration's environmental policies. Change is hard and slow, but that doesn't mean that Americans aren't taking steps to improve. To make a generalization to say that Americans don't care about the environment at all based on the (not necessarily approved) words of the presidents, US companies, etc. is incorrect and unfair. And anyway, scientists ARE trying to make breakthroughs and produce cars, etc. that emit less gases/use something other than natural gas.

And to answer the thing about the forceful adn zero-tolerance thing, I don't think that'll help much. It'll cause an uproar about "infringments upon rights," etc. I think what WILL help is bipartisan bills and legislation to take positive steps. But maybe that's just my personal philosophy. I find it more effective to think positively and look for solutions rather than reprimand.

lilhkmui

12-16-2005, 05:04 AM

Not every American thinks they're #1. I guess it's the stereotype, but if another country can live up to similar standards as us, then they can call themselves #1.. lol

scarletwillow

12-16-2005, 07:10 AM

rhyslud

12-16-2005, 07:26 AM

What Bush needs is a good intern to help ease some of the stress of being Pres! :D

Monica, where are you? Your country needs you! :brows:

scarletwillow

12-16-2005, 07:45 AM

Oh, he's got one.
Karl Rove polishes his warstick every night >.>

KendoTiger

12-16-2005, 09:49 PM

Scarlet Willow ~ every president uses economics as their main base - or at least what they promote the most. Yet if you look at the post-polling surveys, you'll see that the majority of people who voted for Bush ranked him very highly in "moral issues", while Kerry had the majority of the "economic issues" vote.

scarletwillow

12-17-2005, 03:38 AM

Ah yes, I was referring to the 00' election, not the 04' election.

dude000

01-03-2006, 07:04 AM

i dont believe amercia is number one, they dont have all the freedom, too much killings and murderers in america, and amongst the blck community, too much violence exists like drive bys and shootings, i reakon australia is better than america but not econimically, just socially

KendoTiger

01-03-2006, 07:44 AM

Why? Less black people? -_-

Don't you know? In australia - they don't have drive by shootings, they have drive by boomerangings - which are infinitely harder, because, you know, it comes back to them?

I do not believe that proportionally (to population), that "violence" is less in Australia, but based on different laws, there is a categorical difference between them. Yet the same can be said on an interstate-level within the usa. *shrugs*

ShuiMei

01-06-2006, 04:12 PM

Patriotism is a tool used in many other countries, not just the US to get people to do things. I'm not denying that, but using that to chip away at America's reputation isn't very fair. It's like accusing a certain group of people of using water to make lemonade. Everyone uses water to make lemonade.
In response to that, I think Fox News is total BS too. :) However, Fox News represents just one tiny speck in American poiltics and even a smaller speck when you look at America as a whole....You can't generalize it and use it describe the entire country. Every country has its faults and its strengths. How can you use ONE company and ONE person to describe an entire nation..?
Although I guess you could counter that by saying that all Iraqis aren't like Saddam Hussein and all of middle east isn't evil. But that's not the point. What I'm trying to say is that these issues are always complex. You can't "hate" a country for being patriotic just because you think one person is an idiot.
Having read through many of the posts here, I can see a lot of America bashing....But the point is...pretty much ALL people believe "their country is number 1" right? It's just a matter of patriotism. And to all of the Bush bashers out there, a lot of people in America don't like him either. While he is the president of the US, keep in mind that one man cannot represent accurately and completely the values, ideas, and sentiments of all Americans. As an elected official (and remember not unanimously elected) he represents only a portion of Americans, and not all.
Regarding over-zealous patriotism, the fact that other countries use nationalism as a political tool doesn't make it any better, it's that weak-willed "but everyone else is doing it" argument that causes the problem. Others have brought this up too, but we're holding America at a higher standard, it may not be fair but America just isn't in the same playing field as other countries. Some people note China's rising power, and while it undoubtedly will become extremely powerful in the next few decades, it still has a long way to go and comparing the great and democratic America to the oppressive, Communist China isn't exactly the best way to present an argument, I'm not speaking to you directly as you haven't mentioned China, but like I said before- America should be measured with a higher standard.

Furthermore, the other countries that do it aren't nearly as rich and powerful as the United States, this overbearing patriotism gives root to a superiority complex that easily alienates its neighbours and has been doing so particularly in the hands of this administration. Have no doubt, the Americans have every reason to feel superior, they're rich and powerful, but it doesn't mean that the rest of the world looks at them with favourable eyes, particularly when this superiority complex crosses over to international relations and policies. I've mentioned it before, but it's laughable that a country with a two-party electoral system has the audacity to call itself "the greatest democracy in the world."

Anyway, regarding FOX News, I just used that as an example, there's a HUGE right-winged presence in the American media, just HUGE, everyone complains about the 'liberal bias' but if I recall correctly, a good lot of American media outlets are affiliated with the Republican party. FOX News isn't the only guilty one, and I'm not looking at FOX News and using it to describe a whole people, I'm looking at FOX News and using it at an example of how impressionable the general public is, not everyone, but the general public, and one can't argue that it wasn't effective with the general public as Bush did get re-elected did he not? Don't make the mistake of assuming I think all Americans watch FOX and take their word as gospel, I don't, I'm just pointing out how effective it was for them to capitalize on American patriotism, knowing it would strike a chord with the electorate.

We all know that the whole of America didn't vote for Bush, but enough did. If you didn't, a lot of my arguments aren't necessarily speaking directly to you. Also, you may or may not agree with the actions of your government, and they may or may not represent your interests and values but it is still the government of the United States of America, so naturally people are going to look at their actions and use them as reasons why they don't feel America is the best country, or more specifically, "#1."

I think some people are reading the negative comments regarding America as personal attacks, they're not, at least they're not intended to be. This thread is about whether or not we think America's "#1" those who agree, agree, those who disagree, including myself, are pointing out reasons why they disagree. This doesn't make the United States of America the worst country in the world, far from it, but it does clarify why they're not the best in our minds either.

I know the current American government doesn't really represent the interests of all Americans, no government has or ever will, but the American government is the American voice to the world and its actions are going to play a large part in how people view it, whether you voted for the Bush administration or not.

There's lots of non-Bush related things I don't like about America: parts of the Constitution, the presidential system, inefficent process of legislation, promotion of assimilation, an out-of-date two-party system, inaccurate portrayls of Asians in mainstream media, an overbearing superiority complex which has led to cultural imperialism, boring politics, Dr. Phil and Tom Cruise :bleh:

Of course there's things about the United States that I like as well, but that's not what this topic is about xD and for me, the things I dislike overshadow the things I like.

jAYcHOus#1 fAN

01-07-2006, 02:36 AM

i think its cause we are the richest country in the world so thats why. also...i think americans by nature (no offense) think that they are the best. i mean i dont know americans have a lot of ego & are proud of their heritage. iono?

KendoTiger

01-10-2006, 10:25 AM

America should be measured with a higher standard.

but it's laughable that a country with a two-party electoral system has the audacity to call itself "the greatest democracy in the world."

and using it at an example of how impressionable the general public is, not everyone, but the general public, and one can't argue that it wasn't effective
.

Why? What sets America so far apart from the rest that it has to be judged separately? I fail to see how "more power" either economically, politically, militaristically, etc would translate into a more rigid code of conduct (internationally, I assume you mean). It's similar to saying that a man with a gun shouldn't be taken as seriously as a man with a missile launcher. *shrugs*

It actually isn't ~ unless you've been disillusioned. *shrugs*. Depends on if you believe that third party candidates can actually alter the electoral platform of the main two parties, allowing for the adoption of issues outside of the "mainstream". "Greatest" is usually in terms of the US as a whole - not related to "democracy" per se. If you do compare all currently existing democracies, we would be "greatest" in terms of economy, political, military power (etc).

You're giving too much credit to the media ~ most people believe what they want to, and find evidence that supports their view later (psychology ~ Belief-bias effect I believe).

As for Bush ~ American's can never choose someone who accurately supports their will (in general), they chose the one with the most important core beliefs. This election, unfortunately, most people decided that "morality" was important over any semblance of intelligence and tact. *shrugs*

ShuiMei

01-11-2006, 01:48 PM

I'm not giving too much credit to the media, the media is hugely influential in regards to the general public, people don't so much believe what they want to as they believe in what they've been socialized to believe. Of course this isn't limited to the United States, as this exists in all socities with mass media. It's also sociologically proven that while some do question the media the consume, what Stuart Hall calls a 'negotiated reading' where peoople don't accept the dominant values in the message that they're recieving, an unsettling majority of people do not, they will buy into what they see unquestioned, a 'dominant reading,' and this is particularly when it comes to mass media and through the medium of television. I'd love to think that everyone questions everything, but it's simply not the case. Furthemore, keep in consideration who controls the majority of these mass media outlets and there's even more cause for concern.

As to what sets America apart from the rest of the world? I'm surprised you even need to ask. This whole thread is about why America thinks it's "number 1," that a thread of this nature even exists should speak volumes. By being the richest and most powerful country in the world, the United States has an international responsibility to the rest of the world, as we are wholly affected by what Pierre Elliot Trudeau called "every twitch and grunt." We all have a responsibility to the world as global citizens but the United States especially, just due to its massive power and massive influence. Like I said, it may seem unfair to judge the United States on a completely different level but it's because it's on a completely different level from all the other countries in the world- their power is completely unrivaled.

Not to mention, this higher standard that we judge the United States on, a lot of it is rooted in America's own doing. By touting themselves off as the greatest democracy in the world, the best country in the world, a country of fairness and freedom, equal opportunity, the defender of human rights and all that is good in the world, the moral authority of the modern world- the world didn't start saying these things about America, America said these things about America, and the world is only trying to hold America up to its word.

They're in a high position of power, if not the highest, and naturally people will hold those in high positions with higher standards. You don't judge the United States the same way you would judge middle powers, or lesser states- their power is enormous, and since the fall of Soviet Union, unrivaled. For example. having fixed or questionable elections results in an authoritarian state is wrong, but not unexpected, it's actually characteristic, but having questionable election results in a liberal democracy is not only wrong, but a complete violation of what that kind of civil society stands for- this is what I mean by saying we have to judge the United States on a different level, as the United States is not only a liberal democracy, but it labels itself as THE liberal democracy of liberal democracies.

I was under the impression that when America says it's the greatest democracy in the free world, that it is relating to democracy itself, the current administration brings it up all the time when saying that they have plans to democratize the middle east, using the United States as a beacon of light, and it's not only your president and his administration but other pundits, journalists, scholars, etcetera. Once again, it's not the world that's primarily saying these things about America, it's America reinforcing these glorious ideas about America and shouting them out to the world.

...which brings me to my previously stated distaste for America's overwhelming superiority complex in regards to everything from culture to values, and has only resulted in alienating its global neighbours and cultural exportation in the form of cultural imperialism, how lovely.

aquila

01-11-2006, 07:02 PM

Being number 1 is relative.

America is number 1 in terms of money and freedoms. But it is not number 1 in terms of crime (committed and caught/punished), luxuries, technology... you get the picture.

KendoTiger

01-12-2006, 10:24 PM

By being the richest and most powerful country in the world, the United States has an international responsibility to the rest of the world, as we are wholly affected by what Pierre Elliot Trudeau called "every twitch and grunt." We all have a responsibility to the world as global citizens but the United States especially, just due to its massive power and massive influence.

By touting themselves off as ... the moral authority of the modern world-...the world is only trying to hold America up to its word.

...but having questionable election results in a liberal democracy is not only wrong, but a complete violation of what that kind of civil society stands for-

...which brings me to my previously stated distaste for America's overwhelming superiority complex in regards to everything from culture to values, and has only resulted in alienating its global neighbours and cultural exportation in the form of cultural imperialism, how lovely.

That's very true ~ with more international influence, there generally are more people involved, and hence, a greater need to be "responsible". I'm going to call your attention to Cuba, specifically the Cuban Missile Crisis, as evidence against your claim that it relates directed to wealth/power. You can bring in the USSR if you wish, I'll find something against it if you do :/ . Oh, I especially like the animal metaphore. Charming.

I'm wondering specifically what you claim America has renigged on concerning being a "moral authority"? It was under my impression that America has the most advanced civil liberties in the world. If you could enlighten me as to specifics, I would be most appreciative.

Wouldn't questionable results be not only confirmation of a just electoral system (the fact that anomalous (sp) results would be caught and brought to attention), but an example of how divided opinions could be openly stated?

Specifically what alienation? Yeah, there are those conservatives that are overly jingoistic, but meh ~ most of the metropolitan population is quiet diverse and open. Seriously, we're one of the most culturally diverse countries in the world (if not the most) ~ muahaha, making claims again ;D I'm so american ~ so I fail to see how we could have a "superiority complex" regarding "other" cultures: we would be inclusive of those cultures within our own.

Besides ~ it's american companies that seek to "americanize" the outside world, America in general does not seek to promote an American view. Well, relating to democracy, I guess you could say yes. Still, "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.” Winston Churchill.

Jo Yee

01-12-2006, 10:57 PM

sheesh! aren't you guys being political! well, i live in California, but, even though I live in America, and i think it's a really great country, there is still things we need to improve on too! so if you would like to think that our country is the best, then go on ahead. if you don't, then that's fine. But , everybody loves their country. Yes, we do have a pretty steady government, back then, a lot of people were coming here, and we do have a lot of money. Americans help each other out.........don't go on and on accusing it!

Rurouni[X]

06-07-2006, 09:27 AM

Cause America is stuck up.
Why are they number one?
Is it because they are the most powerful nation in names of Military power?
Or is it because their Currency is high..
If so why America..
Because it has a good economy? Refined Schools and Ivory tower universitys?
America has had its reign.. a horrible stuck up reign where like many people say they deploy troops to anywhere in the world..
Do you know that the American embassy in anyworld is always the embassy that takes up the most amount of land.
Also do you know that American soldiers are always sent out to countries to countrol siituations or "Find Weapons of Maaaassssss destruction" I dont see America raiding China.. why? because they arnt that stupid to pick a fight with us.
The USA has had a good run. They have benefitted from the economy and from presidential partys.. But its reign is nearly over.
Americans are not the smartest nor the best people in the world..
Yes America did beat England in the Civil war.. But how?
If England did not amment.
America is still a Commonwealth is it not?
They have a Governor General who has to act as the place of the king to grant new laws??
America is not number 1.
Atleast not in my eye.
They are not world police either.
^^"

KendoTiger

06-08-2006, 01:06 PM

Wow, that's a very charged statement.

']Cause America is stuck up.

This is relative - I could say that China is stuck up. Just opinion :/

']Is it because they are the most powerful nation in names of Military power?
Or is it because their Currency is high..

Was it China or North Korea with the largest standing army in the world?
Oh, and compair the currency exchange rates of America with say, England.

']Because it has a good economy? Refined Schools and Ivory tower universitys?

Lol. I thought the economy had slowed.
Refined schools? Compaired to what? We have the Ivy League (originally established as a sports league) - but most universities would hardly qualify as "Ivory tower"s.

]America has had its reign.. a horrible stuck up reign where like many people say they deploy troops to anywhere in the world..

What reign? *confused*

America has *the ability* to deploy troops anywhere in the world. We do not have any troops stationed anywhere, unless: they are invited by the country's legitimate government, or America is at war* with the country.

*Tonkin Gulf Resolution

]Do you know that the American embassy in anyworld is always the embassy that takes up the most amount of land.

I do not know if this is true or not -I would like to see where you are getting this from- but I do know that the land granted for embassy use is given by the home country.

]Also do you know that American soldiers are always sent out to countries to countrol siituations or "Find Weapons of Maaaassssss destruction" I dont see America raiding China.. why? because they arnt that stupid to pick a fight with us.

That is why we are currently waging war against Iran *rolls eyes*. Control situations? So, while genocide takes place, the U.N. Security council is still in debate - and the U.S. moves to provide aid. Anyways, every country with nuclear power is worried about other countries developing this technology - especially if it is in an unstable (politically/economically/socially) environment. Why do you think so many countries (including China) are concerned with Iran's Nuclear Ambitions? The difference is that America, in the past, took a proactive offensive approach - while now (in Iran) you'll see that we are first providing concessions with the other countries involved. This is a clear example of how the U.S. does not "always" rush in with "guns blazing".

These countries (U.N.) are afraid that in an unstable environment, orders could be given to launch nuclear arms, and create a third world war (nuclear winter). Therefore, there is a great amount of political manuevering regarding the concept of "mutual destruction".

You are wrong about why the U.S. will not attack China for it's nuclear arms. Here are the more relevant arguments:

As for attacking China - it all goes back to stability. China has already become a nuclear power, they are not currently developing it. China is (at present) a fairly stable economic, militaristic, and political power. China has not endangered U.S. interests (allies) with the threat of Nuclear Attacks. For these reasons, America is unlikely to attack China.

]Americans are not the smartest nor the best people in the world..
Yes America did beat England in the Civil war.. But how?
If England did not amment.

I have not met one American who claims that Americans are the smartest and/or 'best people' in the world.

Revolutionary War, not Civil War. By historical context and definition.

"Amment"? I'm a little confused by what this word is - please clarify. If you mean withdraw: it was because America was winning the war within the Americas. If England put more effort into retaking America, they would leave themselves vunerable to the threat of the French (in Europe). Therefore, they were forced to decide if invading America was worth the risk of Britain being seized by the French.

]They have a Governor General who has to act as the place of the king to grant new laws??

You mean president? The president can ratify/veto new laws - but he cannot create them. There is a system of Checks and Balances - which is something absent in a monarchy. If you wish to make claims about a government, please understand it first.

xanimeotakux

06-20-2006, 09:36 AM

i think we're a bit TOO over-confident. yes, we are doing good economically. but lately, our technology is not as updated as other countries. and oil, jeez. we've intruded into iraq and iran claiming that we want them to earn freedom, while we should be caring about our own issues. -__- i don't think we're actually there for freedom. more like other things. *cough*oil*cough* oh, and china will probably be a top competitor with the u.s. in about 1-2 years i'm guessing. the currency has gone up, olympics there at 2008. what could be better? and now, the u.s. wants to make china friends. heh.

KendoTiger

06-20-2006, 02:28 PM

I thought America and the PRC already had good relations...since after the end of the Korea War....

*shrugs*

Sugar&Spice

06-27-2006, 11:10 PM

judes

06-27-2006, 11:38 PM

fungi

06-28-2006, 04:13 PM

eminemjamesuk

06-28-2006, 08:45 PM

']Cause America is stuck up.
Why are they number one?
Is it because they are the most powerful nation in names of Military power?
Or is it because their Currency is high..
If so why America..
Because it has a good economy? Refined Schools and Ivory tower universitys?
America has had its reign.. a horrible stuck up reign where like many people say they deploy troops to anywhere in the world..
Do you know that the American embassy in anyworld is always the embassy that takes up the most amount of land.
Also do you know that American soldiers are always sent out to countries to countrol siituations or "Find Weapons of Maaaassssss destruction" I dont see America raiding China.. why? because they arnt that stupid to pick a fight with us.
The USA has had a good run. They have benefitted from the economy and from presidential partys.. But its reign is nearly over.
Americans are not the smartest nor the best people in the world..
Yes America did beat England in the Civil war.. But how?
If England did not amment.
America is still a Commonwealth is it not?
They have a Governor General who has to act as the place of the king to grant new laws??
America is not number 1.
Atleast not in my eye.
They are not world police either.
^^"

Apparently you have no idea how things are run here. No one person has all the power in this country, as it is shared among the government and the citizens. Within the government, there are three branches: Executive, Judicial, Legislative. One grants laws, the others finds out if it's constitutional (that's by our Constitution if you didn't know - the thing that is the guideline for everything in this country), and one that makes the laws. Checks and balances makes sure that each branch is doing their job so that they all share the power.

Yes, the U.S. has the largest military and they spend the most on their military. Okay great...so we want to protect ourselves from other countries since our ideals and what we stand for make us hated throughout the world. We stand for freedom and equality, and some people don't understand that...

America isn't raiding China because there's no point to. We don't invade people for the hell of it. We find weapons of mass destruction because they're DANGEROUS. Christ. Do you Australians not understand that these weapons have the power to blow things up?

England did not "amment". They LOST to us fair and square! During the REVOLUTIONARY WAR too. Jesus christ. Go brush up on your history and then bring some actually valid reasons to the table. :shifty:

Sugar&Spice

06-28-2006, 11:00 PM

^ hey. everyone has a right to express their own opinions as long as they do not personally bash another person.
you may not agree with him, but don't say he has issues or that he should keep his opinions to himself.

Hey thats my opinon That he should keep stuff like that to himself. But that dosen't mean he is going to do it.

I also want to know why everyone jumps on people from over here. When things aren't run that great in china either. How about the law they have where you can only have one child. If you have more then one, the other gets killed?! I think that is cruel. And we just had another thread talking about how chinese people think they are the best, d that no one better then them. So before pointing a finger, remember there are four others pointing back at you. If you ask my opinion, I think the governments in a whole stink. And that nothing really good has come from them. Only war and millions of casualties, alot of Collateral damage. From every side.

xanimeotakux

06-29-2006, 02:42 AM

Apparently you have no idea how things are run here. No one person has all the power in this country, as it is shared among the government and the citizens. Within the government, there are three branches: Executive, Judicial, Legislative. One grants laws, the others finds out if it's constitutional (that's by our Constitution if you didn't know - the thing that is the guideline for everything in this country), and one that makes the laws. Checks and balances makes sure that each branch is doing their job so that they all share the power.
Yes, the U.S. has the largest military and they spend the most on their military. Okay great...so we want to protect ourselves from other countries since our ideals and what we stand for make us hated throughout the world. We stand for freedom and equality, and some people don't understand that...
America isn't raiding China because there's no point to. We don't invade people for the hell of it. We find weapons of mass destruction because they're DANGEROUS. Christ. Do you Australians not understand that these weapons have the power to blow things up?
England did not "amment". They LOST to us fair and square! During the REVOLUTIONARY WAR too. Jesus christ. Go brush up on your history and then bring some actually valid reasons to the table. :shifty:

i agree with the 3 branches. bush does not make all the decisions. :dry: i actually think even though it's full of checks and balances, the judicial branch has the most power. and erm, not all Americans are horrible. -___- please do not generalize a country, i just really hate that.

judes

06-29-2006, 04:20 PM

No one person has all the power in this country, as it is shared among the government and the citizens. Within the government, there are three branches: Executive, Judicial, Legislative. One grants laws, the others finds out if it's constitutional (that's by our Constitution if you didn't know - the thing that is the guideline for everything in this country), and one that makes the laws. Checks and balances makes sure that each branch is doing their job so that they all share the power.

of course checks and balances sounds great on paper and that's what's taught to you in your textbook. but in real life, sometimes it doesn't work, especially when one particular party dominates both executive and legislative branches.

so we want to protect ourselves from other countries since our ideals and what we stand for make us hated throughout the world. We stand for freedom and equality, and some people don't understand that...

other countries? what other countries? are there other countries lining up to declare war on the states? where? i'd like to see them. i'd like to see an official list. freedom and equality...as determined by the US government. what right does the US have to tell other people what "freedom" and "equality" mean to them? how does freedom & equality equal brute force? i don't understand.

We find weapons of mass destruction because they're DANGEROUS. Christ. Do you Australians not understand that these weapons have the power to blow things up?

right. and those weapons of mass destruction in the US government's hands are a-okay as long as they're used to find and destroy OTHER people's weapons of mass destruction. that sounds great. very equal and fair to me. and where are the weapons of mass destruction you speak of? i know china has a nuclear program, hey why don't you invade them? north korea probably has one too...uh where are the troops? why isn't the US doing better to save the world? hm. and where are the countries appointing the US to be their police and world savior?

How about the law they have where you can only have one child. If you have more then one, the other gets killed?! I think that is cruel.

as opposed to overpopulation and and being unable to sustain the quality of life for the rest of the children? or for overcrowding in the urban areas? if china didn't implement the one child policy there would be millions more of starving people in the world. there are consequences from the policy, such as killing the daughters so that they can have sons, but every policy that is put into effect has consequences. i think what would be cruel is to let that child live only to have the child die of starvation.

not all Americans are horrible. -___- please do not generalize a country, i just really hate that.

nope. not all americans are horrible. there are good and bad people in every country. but america has a "reputation" in the world and that is seen by the decisions of the government that the american people vote into power. i think it's good that governments are criticized and analyzed and should be held accountable for their actions.

angelofdevotion

06-29-2006, 05:33 PM

In this world, people kept on wanting to be powerful...... believeing that they got the power and all,, and byy that, being powerful could be proven by wars and hoe many people u kill in the war. Violence and ignorance blinded one with truth and facts. Therefore, when one wants to think they are greatst, they blinded themselves with all of these, being completely ignorant. And that seems to be the most perfect way to think tht "yes, i am the best"

american thinks they are greatest, britian thought they were greatest, and so on. this idea os who is greater or greatest shall never dies.

hoenstly, i dont like countries who think they are best,,,, because there is no best...... each one country is special and best on its own way. Don; think so highly of yourself. That's it

Sugar&Spice

06-30-2006, 10:41 AM

[QUOTE=judes]of course checks and balances sounds great on paper and that's what's taught to you in your textbook. but in real life, sometimes it doesn't work, especially when one particular party dominates both executive and legislative branches.

Maybe so, but they are not the only ones that may have a system that dose not really work. If any one country came up with a fool-proof way of doing things, and everything worked. Then I would personally spend all of my money to fly over there and see it. Because that would be a country with no problems once-so-ever. But because there is not a country like that. We will continue to see countries come up with systems that don't work. Whther it is checks and balances, or another system. I find fault in the governments period, no matter where you go. To say one is bad and the other is not. Is a very foolish statement. Because as far as I see, no one has done anything to solve any improtant matter. So if you ask me they are all in the same boat.

as opposed to overpopulation and and being unable to sustain the quality of life for the rest of the children? or for overcrowding in the urban areas? if china didn't implement the one child policy there would be millions more of starving people in the world. there are consequences from the policy, such as killing the daughters so that they can have sons, but every policy that is put into effect has consequences. i think what would be cruel is to let that child live only to have the child die of starvation.

Hmmm. That brings me to my next point. If the government of china is so worried about over population, and starvation. Why don't they implament a plan to change that?! Is it because killing off innocent children before they can have a chance at life, is easier?! It is not easy for a mother to have a second kid and know that it will have to die. What I'm saying is this, don't look at the holes in one countrys system. When the one you're defending has holes in it too. Murder is murder, no matter what reasons you have behind doing it. All of the excuses in the world won't make it right. There was a woman years ago, that killed old people, and people who where sick. And said she was doing it to put them out of their misery. But it was still murder, and she still went to jail. So you can say its to prevent starvation, and overpopulation if you want to, but it still dosen't make it right. The government should come up with a new plan. Since china is known to be industrious, then get to work on something more humane then killing children.

judes

06-30-2006, 04:10 PM

I find fault in the governments period, no matter where you go. To say one is bad and the other is not. Is a very foolish statement. Because as far as I see, no one has done anything to solve any improtant matter. So if you ask me they are all in the same boat.

that's correct. i'm not saying that the american government is terrible or wonderful. i'm only saying that there are flaws. i'm also not comparing it to any other government system from other countries. there is no perfect government.

If the government of china is so worried about over population, and starvation. Why don't they implament a plan to change that?

wouldn't we all like to have a great solution that will solve over population AND starvation? we would like to have an overabundance of products with amazing production seasons every year so that everybody can eat. but too bad that it's not possible. so therefore the one child policy is in place.

What I'm saying is this, don't look at the holes in one countrys system. When the one you're defending has holes in it too. Murder is murder, no matter what reasons you have behind doing it. All of the excuses in the world won't make it right.

your logic doesn't make sense to me. yes i am looking at the holes in the US system, and anyone can feel free to contradict me or to bring up valid points against my argument. i'm not defending china's system either, only that i saw the point that you brought up as flawed to my eyes. it is naive to think that we can generalize all the actions of a government and see a country as either "good" or "bad".

there would be no discussion and no debate if everybody has to stand by a "perfect" system, because to be honest, there isn't one. there are points to each country's ways of governing that i agree with, and ways that i don't. if you frequent the china/taiwan thread you'll see that i am definitely not a supporter of china. so don't take my points as an insult to the US or as me adoring china's ways, because nowhere do i say that one is better.

there is no black and white.
and no absolute truth or a certain way to go about doing things to make people happy. i believe that in this instance, china went about it the only way they possibly could. they lowered the population and that came with consequences of raising the radio of male to females. so it solved the problem somewhat but created other problems, and then the government must be flexible in solving it. but i don't see how else they could possibly fix it any other way.

instead of saying that "murder is wrong", maybe you should think about it another way. you may be killing a potential child before its born, but to me, it's even more harsh to let the child be born and then to let it die a slow death of starvation or poverty. and anyone who tells me there isn't starvation in china because it's growing more advanced or whatever, please, save it. there are people dying of starvation everywhere or living in horrible and poor conditions that a person shouldn't live in. we could save the lives that are living now instead of burdening an already strained system.

Sugar&Spice

06-30-2006, 09:47 PM

that's correct. i'm not saying that the american government is terrible or wonderful. i'm only saying that there are flaws.

And I'm just pointing out that Americca is not the only government that has flaws. Whenever there is a imperect person running things, you will always see flaws. News flash there is no real effective way of correcting them. But this thread is focusing on Amerca, and so I'm just saying the governments in general need to be pin-pointed. It dosen't matter to me whether anyone thinks America is great, or terrible.

i'm also not comparing it to any other government system from other countries. there is no perfect government.

Exactly, there is no perfect government. So the statements that I make, are pointing that very thing out. Why pin-point America, when no govenment is flawless?! You may not be comparing it to any other government. By my statments are based on the posts in this thread. Not just on your posts. I qouted you, because I didn't agree with some of what you said.

wouldn't we all like to have a great solution that will solve over population AND starvation? we would like to have an overabundance of products with amazing production seasons every year so that everybody can eat. but too bad that it's not possible. so therefore the one child policy is in place.

A policy that is flawed in itself. On the terms of humanity, it dosen't measure up.

your logic doesn't make sense to me. yes i am looking at the holes in the US system, and anyone can feel free to contradict me or to bring up valid points against my argument. i'm not defending china's system either, only that i saw the point that you brought up as flawed to my eyes. it is naive to think that we can generalize all the actions of a government and see a country as either "good" or "bad".

It dose not bother me, that you think my logic is flawed. Because I'm not seeing eye to eye with you either. I'am far from Naive. I'm getting the impression that you have not read my post carefully. I never said that there are good governments, and there are bad governments. I made the statement that all of the governments have flaws in them. Which is a fact. The example of there being a perfect government, and me flying over there. Was to show the how silly it is for a person to say,"Hey this government has flaws in it!!"

Oh really?! Well show me one that dose not have any flaws, and I'll fly over there immediately. Get the point?!

there would be no discussion and no debate if everybody has to stand by a "perfect" system, because to be honest, there isn't one. there are points to each country's ways of governing that i agree with, and ways that i don't. if you frequent the china/taiwan thread you'll see that i am definitely not a supporter of china. so don't take my points as an insult to the US or as me adoring china's ways, because nowhere do i say that one is better.

Hey I never said that you did. When I use the word,"You" in my posts, I'am generalizing. It is not saying just you as a person, but to people in general. You were quoted because of something that you said. And the fact that I wanted to debate a certain point. So don't take it so hard, as to think that I'm forming some kind of opinion about you. This is a debate. I don't take it personaly. I only debate statements. A persons veiws are still their own. Also you just said what I have been saying from the beginning. There is not a perfect government. And that is a fact. So my questio is,"Why just focus on the flaws of the U.S?!" That is my only question.

there is no black and white.
and no absolute truth or a certain way to go about doing things to make people happy. i believe that in this instance, china went about it the only way they possibly could. they lowered the population and that came with consequences of raising the radio of male to females. so it solved the problem somewhat but created other problems, and then the government must be flexible in solving it. but i don't see how else they could possibly fix it any other way.

I begg to differ with you. But since this is an opinion I'll leave it alone. Since you can't see any other way of dealing with the problem. No sense in arguing it then. It would just be like beating a dead horse.(not an insult, just a phrase.)

instead of saying that "murder is wrong", maybe you should think about it another way. you may be killing a potential child before its born, but to me, it's even more harsh to let the child be born and then to let it die a slow death of starvation or poverty. and anyone who tells me there isn't starvation in china because it's growing more advanced or whatever, please, save it. there are people dying of starvation everywhere or living in horrible and poor conditions that a person shouldn't live in. we could save the lives that are living now instead of burdening an already strained system.

I wouldn't say that there is not any starvation in China. I'm sure there is. But a government is supposed to take in consideration, not only those who are living now. But also those who are yet to be born. Why?! Because if there are more men then women, and they keep killing them off, how do you properly reproduce?! Not to mention that a family can have a boy who might not be fertile. They are not allowed another child. And not to mention the women who might not be able to produce children. With the child limit, it may seem that it is easy for the old to die out, and there would not be enough young ones to follow behind. But that is my opinion, feel free to debate it. And no I will not look at murder another way. Here is my veiw,"You can take a black crayon, and turn it around. Look at it with your eyes wide open, and then with your eyes half opened. You can even look at it upside down, and it will still be a black crayon." That is the same thing with murder. You can look at it this way, and you can look at it that way. You can look at it any way you want, and the fact will still remain. It is murder, which is a bad thing. It is, what it is, no matter what way you look at it.

judes

06-30-2006, 10:30 PM

please close your quote brackets or else your response will look like a big quote.

i think the entire post can be summed up if i answer this:
And that is a fact. So my questio is,"Why just focus on the flaws of the U.S?!" That is my only question.

because this thread is about why the US thinks they are number one. and therefore pointing out the reasons why the US is not number one. if you want to discuss the worthiness or the terrible aspects of other governments, then make another thread. it's that simple. the reason why the US is targeted in this thread because it is the purpose of this thread. if there is no debate going on about the US it is like going to mcdonalds and then getting annoyed because you wanted pizza.

and i'm not taking it so hard or so personally. i don't have that much time on my hands to worry about what people on the internet think of me :) so if i what i say sounds a little harsh or offensive, it's not supposed to be a direct attack towards any person but towards someone's comments.

I begg to differ with you. But since this is an opinion I'll leave it alone. Since you can't see any other way of dealing with the problem.

no of course i am willing to see other ways of dealing with the problem. where are your other ways? please tell me. let me see a better solution and then i will agree with you. but if you cannot bring up any ideas to the table, then don't say that i am too stubborn to see other ideas...because i'm agreeing with the present solution. so unless you can find an alternative, i'm not going to look any further.

That is the same thing with murder. You can look at it this way, and you can look at it that way. You can look at it any way you want, and the fact will still remain. It is murder, which is a bad thing. It is, what it is, no matter what way you look at it.

yes, you are free to have your own opinions about the one child policy. i do not agree with the concept that if you bear a child will have to kill it under the policy. i don't support the killing of babies who are already born. but i do support birth control and abortion. china could have done better with the implementation of the one child policy through an equal support of sex education, birth control, and making abortions more easily accessible to women. i'm not sure what was done alongside the policy but i don't think it as in depth as it could have been.

so yes, murder is murder if you are killing a child.
but the idea, the premise behind the one child policy, is one of the better decisions that the chinese government made for their people. and i'm stressing that it could have been done "better" but the government has put it into place and we cannot erase history. it is not the best solution possible, yet i'm not sure how any other solution could have been possible.

i am more than willing to stand on your side. i am more than willing to believe your opinion that there is another solution. show me another solution, tell me about your ideas of another way to confront this problem, and i am willing to admit i am wrong and take back my statement. but if you don't have anything to offer in terms of solutions, then we can simply stop discussing this because i'm not going to change my mind unless something solid and logical is presented.

Sugar&Spice

06-30-2006, 11:58 PM

because this thread is about why the US thinks they are number one. and therefore pointing out the reasons why the US is not number one. if you want to discuss the worthiness or the terrible aspects of other governments, then make another thread. it's that simple.)

Actually it is not that simple. I know very well what this thread is about. And I see why people say that the U.S is not number one. I'm agreeing that the U.S has flaws, but so do other governments. So why make another thread just to state that one fact?! Also it was said in another post, that the U.S dosen't fight with china because they are better and that the U.S government is dying out. I think that any government run by imperfect people is short lived. So what I'm stressing is the fact that not only is the U.S full of flaws, but they all are. Also I see talk about systems being flawed, thus my earlier staements. So I'm on the right thread, my statements were not geared towards just other countries. But the fact that it is silly to just pin-point one country. Why focus attention on just one?! It sounds rather silly to me. People here are speaking about flaws of the U.S and not really giving any hint to the fact that they know it is everywhere and not just the U.S. Seems preety one sided. I'm not changing the topic, just bringing out another aspect of it.

Quote:
(the reason why the US is targeted in this thread because it is the purpose of this thread. if there is no debate going on about the US it is like going to mcdonalds and then getting annoyed because you wanted pizza.)

Nice example, but it makes little to no sense at all. For the simple fact that I knew what the topic was about, and did not try to change it from a discussion of whether the U.S was number one or not. I'm not so densed that I would enter into this forum and exspect to see something different from what I have been seeing. What I want to know is this, since it has been established that all governments are flawed. Can anyone give me a reason why the U.S flawed govrnmet sticks out in your mind, over all the others?! Since they are all flawed, why dose the U.S stand out the most?! All I keep hearing about is Ivy league schools and, systems that don't work. Sounds the same as any other government. Bring out another aspect of the debate. You mean to tell me this debate is only one dimentional?! No other points can be brought out?! No other aspects?! Hmmmmm.

Quote:
(and i'm not taking it so hard or so personally. i don't have that much time on my hands to worry about what people on the internet think of me :) so if i what i say sounds a little harsh or offensive, it's not supposed to be a direct attack towards any person but towards someone's comments.)
Whether you are harsh or not, dose not bother me. Actually, I've seen people who are more intense. This is only mediocore for me. Not really a big deal. Just something to occupy my time.

Quote:
(no of course i am willing to see other ways of dealing with the problem. where are your other ways? please tell me. let me see a better solution and then i will agree with you. but if you cannot bring up any ideas to the table, then don't say that i am too stubborn to see other ideas...because i'm agreeing with the present solution. so unless you can find an alternative, i'm not going to look any further.)

No offense, but it is not my job to try to change your mind. I only exspress my opinions, along with any facts that I know. Because whether you want to further your knowledge of a certain issuse, or just stay at one veiw. Is entirely up to you. I have no bearing on how a person looks at things. I only state how I look at a certain thing.

Quote:
(yes, you are free to have your own opinions about the one child policy. i do not agree with the concept that if you bear a child will have to kill it under the policy. i don't support the killing of babies who are already born. but i do support birth control and abortion.)

A baby who is forming in a mothers stomach. Is in my veiw still a baby, and to abort it is murder. So whether it is born or unborn, dose not matter in my opinion. But this is best left to the abortion thread.

Quote:
(china could have done better with the implementation of the one child policy through an equal support of sex education, birth control, and making abortions more easily accessible to women. i'm not sure what was done alongside the policy but i don't think it as in depth as it could have been.
so yes, murder is murder if you are killing a child..)

So on one hand you think that the policy is good, but then you see some flaws in it too?! But then again you say that you see no other way of doing it. But then it is not as in dept as it should be?! Hmmmm.

Quote:
(but the idea, the premise behind the one child policy, is one of the better decisions that the chinese government made for their people. and i'm stressing that it could have been done "better" but the government has put it into place and we cannot erase history.)

Laws can be changed. How can it be better, when you yourself pointed out the holes in it?!

Quote:
(it is not the best solution possible, yet i'm not sure how any other solution could have been possible.)

Why is that?! What other solutions have there been?! Has anyone brought any other veiws to the table?!

Quote:
(i am more than willing to stand on your side. i am more than willing to believe your opinion that there is another solution. show me another solution, tell me about your ideas of another way to confront this problem, and i am willing to admit i am wrong and take back my statement.)

I'm not trying to get you to admit that you are wrong. And I'm not trying to get you to take back your statement. I'am just exspressing my veiws. I'm not looking for anyone to stand on my side either. If you(people in general)agree with me, ok. But if not, thats okay too. I don't think my word is the final say, and I'm not looking to say that any one person is wrong. I'm just enjoying a good debate, and exspressing myself.

Quote:
(but if you don't have anything to offer in terms of solutions, then we can simply stop discussing this because i'm not going to change my mind unless something solid and logical is presented.

I have a theory, but it's just a suggestion. Like any other country, china has people who cannot have a child, and I'm sure that there are alot of people like this. Why not just allow those who have exceeded the limit of children, give their child to someone who dose not have a child?! Instead of killing the child?! Or to a family member who is yet to have a child, take the child? Of course if they agree to it. Also there are people over here who love to adopt children from overseas. Why not set up a program, for them to adopt the children?! At least they can have a chance at life. And like I said before, my aim is not to change your mind. You can either agree with me or not. Either way, it dosen't bother me in the least.

ShuiMei

07-02-2006, 02:45 AM

Sugar&Spice

07-03-2006, 07:37 AM

What always puzzles me in these discussions is when people point out the failures and flaws of the American system and society, others are quick to point out the other fallings of other countries, namely China. Why are we comparing the standard of life and state policies of an authoritarian, officially Communist nation to a nation which labels itself as the beacon of democracy in the modern world?

Why are people from a Communist nation, comparing the standard of life and stae policies, with anyone else. Rather then looking at how they can improve themselves?! Plus China and the U.s are not in a war. So whats the problem?!

Quote:
We want better from China, but we have to look at the circumstances of their political situation, as for the United States, we expect more, we expect better. If the United States is going to hold itself as a pillar in which the world should look up to and aspire to be, then it should show it is deserving of such a position, and it should expect the criticism it receives.

Why is it that you expect more from over here?! I see where you are contredicting yourself. You say that people over here think that they are number one, but then on the other hand you say you expect more from over here. So it is a fact that you are putting it on a pillar. By expecting more from it then your own country. Not only that but you are putting your own as well as other countries down, by not expecting as much from them, as you do the U.S. You need to be more sagacious with your statements.

Quote:
With China, of course there are questions to be raised about the one-child policy, but one benefit it has created is routine medical check-ups for pregnant women, particularly in rural areas, whereas before mostly women in more urbanized areas would receive such treatment.

Of course they are checking on the pregnant women in rural areas now. They have a problem that they want to try to keep an eye on. They want to make sure that the limit they have set is in place. As well as other unknown reasons. They have a big hole in the system as far as there being more men then women, and they want to try to monitor and fix the hole.

Quote:
In regards to the imbalance of male versus female children in China, the CPC has recognized this as a problem and has thus began programs which promote keeping female infants instead of aborting them. As for their success rate, it remains to be said, but it is a problem "acknowledged" by the state.

Yeah it can be aknowledged by the state, but it is not yet solved. I could see if the problem was solved, then maybe you would be able to really say something, that is relevent about it. But its not solved yet. So actually it is a hole that no one knows how to fix. So no one can really talk about it as if they have it all wrapped up.

Quote:
and no, questionable results in an electoral system mean nothing for that system if they aren't remedied. Divided opinions in your electoral system have to choose a side, right or left, and that is it. A two-party system is deeply flawed and problematic, and does nothing for the electorate other than alienate them and pit them against each other, whereas a multiparty system works upon cooperation and getting more than one or two sides of an issue. It's either blue or red for you people, where's the green, yellow, and purple? If all you ever see is blue or red, you'll never get the viewpoint of orange.

I see what you are trying to say. But once again you say,"You people." These are not my views, so maybe you should refrain from saying you people as if it is erveryone. Secondly, if you think that over here is one sided. Then explain to me what the heck happened in red square,(I think I got the name right.) Where all of those students were murdered because they had their own veiw of things?! Now I call that only looking at the red and the blue. What happened to the orange in that situation?! Hmmmm. I don't think that was very untied either. I'm not defending the U.S at all. I'm just saying, that no one can really say anything about where someone else is from, when where they are from is not all that great either.

Quote:
If you are to tell me that American people as a whole do not think that American culture and society is the best and superior to all other cultures, I'd be surprised, but I wouldn't buy it for a second. We, as outsiders, get this all the time when we watch American programming and the evening news, I'm not saying this is how you personally feel, I am saying is that this is the impression the world has of your nation and your people. It may be incorrect in your personal case and in the case of people you know, but it's the feeling we get from your nation and your people. If you want to debate such a notion, then don't argue with us how we're wrong, show us.

Now how can you make such a statement like that?! "Don't argue with us show us?!" Do you know who you are talking to. The people who are on here, are not people from the white house. We are everyday people, just like you. How can we get up and show you anything?! We are not the spokes person for this nation, but simply citizens. So what are you talking about?! You are talking to the wrong people, you need to phone the white house. And then see if they will show you what you ask. And the fact that you think that anybody should show or answer to you for anything, shows how superior you think that you and your people are. I'm from over here in the U.S, and I have never said that anyone should prove themselves. But then again I don't think that I'm superior to anyone.

Quote:
I know it's probably hard not to take all of this personally, but that's just what this topic is about, why does America think it's number one? This thread wouldn't exist if your nation didn't present itself in a way to the world that would inspire such a topic.

I don't take any of this personally. I probably would if I ran things over here. But I don't. I'm not going to be upset by someone elses actions. Bush is the one who is calling the shots, not me. So why blame everyone else for one persons mistakes?! If you can't seperate the two, then that is your problem, or anyone elses problem. If things over here really bother some people, why not write a letter to the white house?! Because venting it on here won't change a thing. All it will do is make yourself, upset thinking about it. Because nothing can be done about it, by just complaining on a forum.

Quote:
The people who are criticizing the United States in this thread simply disagree with the notion that the United States is "number one," when some people try to justify or disregard our arguments, it seems to simply reinforce the notion that Americans think themselves to be "number one," not saying that you do (though some of you might?), just seems like you're unwilling to see our side of things.

I don't try to disregard your statements at all. And I know you are speaking in general. But here is my view. I don't think that America is number one at all. I think that there are alot of problems with the U.S. But what I can't stand, is when others come around and shake their heads at people over here, because of the veiws they seem to have formed in their minds, about people over here. Trying to slash at the U.S and people over here is in fact stating that your country is number one. Because you are trying to slash down the people over here. And act as if your countries ways are so much better. When things are pointed at your country, all of a sudden it is,"Oh we have a certain problem but it is being worked on. So it's no big deal." Come off of it. Thats the same crap they say over here. If you ask me no ones country is the best. All of the governments stink.

I think thatpeople should stop worring about where people are from, or forming views about others because of where they were born. It only promotes hatred, and strife, torwards one person, and another. No mater where you were born, or what race you are, we have the same needs: Food, shelter,water, clotges, and love. I'm no hippy, but I find it to be very ignorant to seperate one group of people from another. People have flaws, governments have flaws no matter where you go. Instead of counting apples and oranges, by saying,"You have the most flaws, you think your better!!" People should except people for who they are and deal with life. If you don't choose to do that(People in general) then I feel sorry for you. Because I don't see the need in it. You'll be happier if you stop picking on everyones flaws, because there will always be flaws, in everything, and in everyone. I'm done with this debate, it has become pointless to me now. Thank you to all those who gave me a good debate. Which was Judes.:D

ShuiMei

07-04-2006, 05:02 AM

I don't think that when someone is criticizing one country that it necessarily means that they think their country is better. The best example I can think of is new immigrants. Some immigrants may have fled their home country for a chance at a better life, but when they immigrate to a new country, they may (most assuredly they will) find problems within the new country they call home. When they criticize this country, does it mean that they think their old country is better? Not neccessarily, they just have expectations, they still have a sense of what's right and wrong, what a government should and shouldn't do, and that's what the people here who are criticizing the United States, for the most part, have: expectations.

Something like being "the best country in the world" is obviously subjective, there's no absolute, right or wrong answer, the point of this thread is about why "America THINKS they're number one" and people expressing their thoughts and feelings on the subject. Obviously no one is promoting prejudice against ALL Americans, we're simply expressing our opinions on American society, American politics, and how America projects itself to the world.

I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the fallings of other nation-states and their societies, that's our duty as global citizens. If I were more well-versed in the subject, I could just as well point out the problems in France, or Britain, or Australia, and I can certainly go on and ON about what's wrong with Canada, but that's not what this thread is about.

Nations and governments are institutions, they are systems and socities that control the lives of the people who inhabit them and the people around them, simply saying "we all have our flaws, let's not talk about them, let's not deal with them" seems like a nonproductive way of thinking. So long as we don't take it personally and don't make any personal attacks I think it's all healthy discussion.

KendoTiger

07-06-2006, 04:36 AM

of course checks and balances sounds great on paper and that's what's taught to you in your textbook. but in real life, sometimes it doesn't work, especially when one particular party dominates both executive and legislative branches.

Well, the Republicans actually control all three branches... Yeah, sucks. Anyways, new political studies are showing that representatives are increasingly more likely to vote along party lines. Why? Probably funding/support. It is truely a sad occurance. Still, I maintain that after the country takes a step back, it takes two steps forward. (Sometimes three, then we need it to take a step back again ;D).

right. and those weapons of mass destruction in the US government's hands are a-okay as long as they're used to find and destroy OTHER people's weapons of mass destruction. that sounds great. very equal and fair to me. and where are the weapons of mass destruction you speak of? i know china has a nuclear program, hey why don't you invade them? north korea probably has one too...uh where are the troops? why isn't the US doing better to save the world? hm. and where are the countries appointing the US to be their police and world savior.

Actually, those weapons of mass destruction are not used to destroy other weapons of mass destruction. They are there because of the belief of "mutual anihilation" (sp?), or "mutually-assured destruction". It is the main reason why nuclear powers do not have "all out wars", instead, they have "conventional wars" which are strickly non-nuclear. Still, war (in general) is avoided at all costs, because no one wants a nuclear holocaust.

America usually acts unilaterally because, well, we're selfish. More correctly, we're selfish and not afraid to do something about it XD. The US desires to be more proactive (despite some isolationist back-swings) since Pearl Harbor. It really is a "day that will live in infamy" - it changed the nation's point of view regarding the rest of the world. Instead of waiting to be attacked, we chose to do what must be done to save ourselves. A similar occurance happened with September 11th.

we would like to have an overabundance of products with amazing production seasons every year so that everybody can eat. but too bad that it's not possible

Actually, I heard that the US alone, if producing at maximum capacity, could fulfil nutritional requirements for the whole world for a year. I am not sure if this is true or not, but I am sure that farmers are paid to underproduce in order to keep prices competative and to stabalize the economy.

I'm getting the impression that you have not read my post carefully.

Too good to pass up with our debate in the "overweight thread".

----
Please, I believe there is already a "China's One-Child Policy" Thread.
----

the reason why the US is targeted in this thread because it is the purpose of this thread. if there is no debate going on about the US it is like going to mcdonalds and then getting annoyed because you wanted pizza

Judes' analogy does make sense. The reason why everyone is "bashing America" here is because this is a thread specifically devoted to the question, "Why does America think it's #1?". It does not make sense to come to a thread specifically for this topic, and hear other things discussed. If someone created a thread, "Why does China think it's #1?", you would undoubtably get people writing the same type of comments about China (instead of the US).

What always puzzles me in these discussions is when people point out the failures and flaws of the American system and society, others are quick to point out the other fallings of other countries, namely China. Why are we comparing the standard of life and state policies of an authoritarian, officially Communist nation to a nation which labels itself as the beacon of democracy in the modern world?

We want better from China, but we have to look at the circumstances of their political situation, as for the United States, we expect more, we expect better. If the United States is going to hold itself as a pillar in which the world should look up to and aspire to be, then it should show it is deserving of such a position, and it should expect the criticism it receives.

-getting back to it when I get back-

I don't quite know what you're trying to get at here, are you saying Cuba wasn't wealthy or a huge political powerhouse internationally but managed to create a huge, potential disaster? If so, weapons are power, I don't think this needs to be stated, if that's not what you're getting at, explain s'il vous plaît.

-getting back to it when I get back-

In regards to the United States' moral authority, I'm surprised you have to ask particularly during this time of war, but I suppose you may use the excuse that because your nation is in "war time" that the standards shouldn't be held the same as when at peace? The torturing of prisoners, pulling out of numerous international conventions in regards to torture. Then there's the phone tapping and invasion of privacy laws in your own nation, and detaining people for years on the pure suspicion of guilt and terrorism: what ever happened to the rule of law? I don't really like talking about stuff regarding the war, as I don't really follow much of it beyond what I see on the evening news. There's also the business with the Kyoto Protocol, where as the largest polluter of greenhouse gasses, the administration refuses to ratify Kyoto, obviously the state is giving in to industry lobbyist and corporations who fear the economic impact it could have.

-getting back to it later-

Divided opinions in your electoral system have to choose a side, right or left, and that is it. A two-party system is deeply flawed and problematic, and does nothing for the electorate other than alienate them and pit them against each other, whereas a multiparty system works upon cooperation and getting more than one or two sides of an issue. It's either blue or red for you people, where's the green, yellow, and purple? If all you ever see is blue or red, you'll never get the viewpoint of orange.

Last I checked, there are more than two political parties in the US. Third party candidates are essential, as they introduce "risky" proposals and gain attention to issues neither Democrats nor Republicans were willing to openly debate. Not to mention there are Third Party officials in public office.

Furthermore, those jingoistic conservatives are the people who are running your country. I don't want to get into the whole "they don't represent all of America" thing again, so no, they don't, but they're definitely a part of it and represent a majority of your electorate. While I'm sure the metropolitan areas are open to other cultures, the viewpoint that American culture is superior and dominates others is one that prevails. If you are to tell me that American people as a whole do not think that American culture and society is the best and superior to all other cultures, I'd be surprised, but I wouldn't buy it for a second. We, as outsiders, get this all the time when we watch American programming and the evening news, I'm not saying this is how you personally feel, I am saying is that this is the impression the world has of your nation and your people. It may be incorrect in your personal case and in the case of people you know, but it's the feeling we get from your nation and your people. If you want to debate such a notion, then don't argue with us how we're wrong, show us.

Yeah, unfortunately the conservatives still maintain a large grip of power within the US. The primary reason is the church - liberals do not have anything nearly as powerful as the christian church. Where else to cement your political points of view than a place which says living hundreds of years in the past is ordained by God? Well, not the *moderates*, to quote sugar&spice, (lol, inside joke :p).

Lmfao. Media is biased anywhere - just check out BBC! If our media only portrays the "positive" effects of our actions, and demonizes "the enemy" - BBC outright insults other cultures/nations. Seriously, just watch! What do you think our impressions of the rest of the world is, when you all point to us as the primarily scapegoat. Murder? Genocide? The US is removing a dictator against his will! EVIL EVIL EVIL *points*.

I know it's probably hard not to take all of this personally, but that's just what this topic is about, why does America think it's number one? This thread wouldn't exist if your nation didn't present itself in a way to the world that would inspire such a topic. The people who are criticizing the United States in this thread simply disagree with the notion that the United States is "number one," when some people try to justify or disregard our arguments, it seems to simply reinforce the notion that Americans think themselves to be "number one," not saying that you do (though some of you might?), just seems like you're unwilling to see our side of things.

There is a difference from saying "no country is number one" or "everyone believes their country is the best", and bashing America. I'm not saying that I want to stop people from expressing their opinion (if they have it), but I would like to point out that there is a difference.

Either way, I'm willing to see another side of any argument, provided they are convincing and truthful :).

judes

07-06-2006, 06:39 AM

^ my main problem with the US government is the dangerously close relationship between religion & state. even before when i was a christian i was opposed to any sort of link between the church and the government. it just cannot be done even if there is a religious majority. you have to protect minority rights and freedom of religion. the US government is disturbing in that respect with the progress of many trigger abortion laws and extremely conservative bills. i also have a problem with the welfare system and with the health care system there, and all i have to say is that i am glad i do not live there and i hope i never have to in the future.

with the points you already brought up:

Actually, those weapons of mass destruction are not used to destroy other weapons of mass destruction. They are there because of the belief of "mutual anihilation" (sp?), or "mutually-assured destruction". It is the main reason why nuclear powers do not have "all out wars", instead, they have "conventional wars" which are strickly non-nuclear. Still, war (in general) is avoided at all costs, because no one wants a nuclear holocaust.

so i don't understand why the US has to go around policing everybody else's weapons when they have plenty of their own. the situation you're stating is very real and puts everyone at a deadend. i don't mind that. i don't mind that these weapons exist so that the threat of them may prevent a world war BUT what i do mind is the US gov acting like hypocrites telling which countries they are or are not allowed to have weapons. that to me is wrong. we have responsibilities as nations who develop these sorts of weapons to control the usage of them, except i don't see any evidence that there were weapons of mass destruction being brought out of the country they invaded.

Instead of waiting to be attacked, we chose to do what must be done to save ourselves. A similar occurance happened with September 11th.

if you look at the numbers of those who died on sept 11th in comparison to those who died overseas in US led or helped military operations, then i would say i don't think anyone is waiting to attack the US, it's the US instigating and prolonging acts of violence all over the world BEFORE even the sept 11th attacks.

Actually, I heard that the US alone, if producing at maximum capacity, could fulfil nutritional requirements for the whole world for a year. I am not sure if this is true or not, but I am sure that farmers are paid to underproduce in order to keep prices competative and to stabalize the economy.

yes, for a year. and then the nutrients of the land will eventually be used up and then you would have land that cannot produce anything. you also have to account for growth. the growth rate > death rate, therefore even if the US keeps on producing, the urban areas are still going to grow into the rural, not to mention the growth rate of other countries. therefore, limited land for production, and more mouths to feed.

i would like to see you site sources where this fact is actually true, because the logistics of it doesn't make sense to me.

same with the idea of the farmers. it also doesn't make sense to me why farmers would underproduce if there are so many hungry people in the US alone. and it is dependant on what kind of economics that you study where this option is actually feasible in stabilizing the economy. the US economy needs to stabilize itself soon, and i don't see how paying farmers to underproduce will help anyone. once again, this does not seem like a feasible option the government would take. so i'd like to see some sources.

KendoTiger

07-06-2006, 03:15 PM

my main problem with the US government is the dangerously close relationship between religion & state.

I believe that in any society, a close relationship between religion and state affairs tend to lead to ultra-conservatism and other unwanted traits. *Shrugs*

so i don't understand why the US has to go around policing everybody else's weapons when they have plenty of their own. the situation you're stating is very real and puts everyone at a deadend. i don't mind that. i don't mind that these weapons exist so that the threat of them may prevent a world war BUT what i do mind is the US gov acting like hypocrites telling which countries they are or are not allowed to have weapons. that to me is wrong. we have responsibilities as nations who develop these sorts of weapons to control the usage of them, except i don't see any evidence that there were weapons of mass destruction being brought out of the country they invaded.

First of all, it is the responsibility of the entire international nuclear community to police nuclear arms; America merely reacts more proactively and forcefully than the rest of the international community. The goal of this community is simple - limit the creation of new nuclear arms and retain the current status quo.

When talking about mutual destruction, you have to realize that all of the countries containing nuclear arms are fairly stable. There is little chance of a quick radical shift in power resulting in the use of those arms; yet, in a less stable country (let's say Iraq as an example) - the same cannot be said. Not only due to an underdeveloped governmental structure (powerless officials), but the close relationship between religion and politics - it would be far more likely that an "developing" country such as this would start a nuclear war. Although nuclear energy would be a strong asset to almost every country, the sad fact is that most would (at this point in time) not be able to maintain the responsibility that possesing nuclear arms entails.

I started writing a "gun" analogy, but I realized you're smart enough not to need it.

There are politics involved that relate to more than self-preservation; still, the balance of power (despite being slightly unfair) is important enough to keep.

The US is not hypocritial in it's actions - it does not "allow" it's allies to research nuclear arms any more than it's enemies. More-over, every nuclear power has invested it's energy in preventing (in some form or another), the advancement of nuclear technology in other (non-nuclear) countries.

Recent actions taken regarding Iran do show that the US is willing to try more diplomatic means, even if the results are fewer and more drawn out. Still, it is evidence against the view that America tries to "force it's way" regarding nuclear arms.

Relating to Iraq's supposed nuclear ambitions. Yes, it was a mistake - etc. Get over it. Relating to Iran, there are projects to research nuclear arms (openly stated by the Iranian government), so it is a different matter entirely.

if you look at the numbers of those who died on sept 11th in comparison to those who died overseas in US led or helped military operations, then i would say i don't think anyone is waiting to attack the US, it's the US instigating and prolonging acts of violence all over the world BEFORE even the sept 11th attacks.

And if you look at how many Americans died during the Civil War, you would see that they far outnumber the combined death-count in every other American war since. I think that you're mentioning a useless statistic - I simply fail to see the point. Why not compair Germany and Poland's "Jewish death count"?

"Death to America! Kill the Americans!" It is pretty obvious that the US has been singled out, and they don't like us. Probably due to a combination of *our* proactive stance, forceful actions, and overall influence. The difference is that most recognized governments understand that they would lose (baring nuclear assistance) any confrontation - so they avoid it. *This also relates to the quote you mentioned earlier. Without this prohibition, even stable governments can become high on their own newfound power.*

We're instigating and prolonging violence all over the world before Sept. 11th? Could you please offer some examples? Of course, if you're saying those caused the Sept. 11th attack, I guess we could also blame victims of rape as having "wanted it", or lynch-mob victims, "he shouldn't have been born black". Please, I'm quite clueless as to what violence we've "instigated".

yes, for a year. and then the nutrients of the land will eventually be used up and then you would have land that cannot produce anything. you also have to account for growth. the growth rate > death rate, therefore even if the US keeps on producing, the urban areas are still going to grow into the rural, not to mention the growth rate of other countries. therefore, limited land for production, and more mouths to feed.

i would like to see you site sources where this fact is actually true, because the logistics of it doesn't make sense to me.

Due to runoff and other factors, it is incorrect to assume that the land could physically produce crops non-stop for any length of time. Yet, if the current land-recycling methods were maintained (two out of three plots used, third given one year to regain nitrogen, plots cycled), it might be possible.

Despite population increases, overall land use does not have to be increased. Look at Japan. Jeez.

Eventually (hundreds of years from now...thousands?) humanity will reach a point where gross output of food cannot meet demand - and people will suffer. Still, this is relating to overpopulation, not land output.

Overpopulation is usually related to developement (ie developed countries sense). As technology increases, family size decreases because there is no need for extended families; availability of birth control, better education, etc. The majority of people who are in over-populated parts of the world are also those in "developing" areas. If you need evidence of this, you can look at the average family size (demographics) with the US Census bureau.

I am not saying we should rely on technology to solve all of our population problems, as it would not stop the exponential growth already existing in these developing areas, but education would help to limit it.

*Am off to cite information*

ps. Well, we could always give Palestine nukes and leave Iran alone for a bit. That should solve the over-population problems (although it might get a bit chilly).

same with the idea of the farmers. it also doesn't make sense to me why farmers would underproduce if there are so many hungry people in the US alone. and it is dependant on what kind of economics that you study where this option is actually feasible in stabilizing the economy. the US economy needs to stabilize itself soon, and i don't see how paying farmers to underproduce will help anyone. once again, this does not seem like a feasible option the government would take. so i'd like to see some sources.

I'm surprised you didn't think about this. You're usually much more focused o_O.

Hungry people in the US? There is the existance of welfare. Are you refering to the homeless? I am confused as to who you are refering to.

Before I begin, I am not going to cite my sources for this example, simply because I do not need to. I will say that you can find this under any decent, college-level economics theory book, and hint that you should look at potato prices (within the last 10-15 years or so) for a real world example.

If anyone can tell me how to post up an image (I forgot and don't feel like looking it up), then I would be happy to show (using economics) proof that under-production is necessary. Well, it would make me look smart with all of my hand-drawn graphs and math XD, but you could easily look it up online. For my example, I'm going to keep to the basics (unless you want me to post my math, in which case I'll spend a few nights and make a full case study). BUT only if you make a decent request for a specific reason, I do not have infinite time.

Underproduction basically works like this. There is one apple farmers and 10 consumers. The farmer can produce 100 apples, and each consumer has 10 usd. Instead of producing 100 apples (the maximum output), the farmer produces 10 apples and charges 10 usd for each, with a 3 usd cost per apple; he gets paid 5 usd from the government as a subsidy (sp?) for underproducing. The total income for the farmer is 100-30+5 = 75 usd profit.

Now if the farmer were to produce 100 apples, the market would be flooded (instead of 10 apples available, there are 100 apples). As supply increases, demand (how much consumers are willing to pay) decreases. This is the basic supply curve.

The problem is that because of the supply curve, consumers will not be willing to pay the original 10 usd per apple. Let's say they are only willing to pay 2 usd per apple (I'm making it convenient - assuming that the bliss point is not reached by 10 apples); this would allow them to purchase five apples at 2 usd each (spending their original 10 usd). This would allow the farmer to sell half of his apples (5x10=50) at 2 usd each, so half of his crop would go to waste. The income would be 100-300+0= -200 usd.

By overproducing, the market is flooded, prices drop, and food goes to waste. What it means is big losses for the producer (farmer), and a huge slump in the economy. By underproducing (compaired to land's maximum output), market produces close to the optimum point (intersection of demand and supply curve) - and the market is healthy.

Understand?

PS. There is no realistic economy where this would not be beneficial. This is one of the reasons why communism is unfeasible.

judes

07-06-2006, 05:27 PM

I believe that in any society, a close relationship between religion and state affairs tend to lead to ultra-conservatism and other unwanted traits.

well you said yourself beforehand. it makes sense as a US focused thread we're talking about the US. so do you admit that this is an area of government the US has to work on? i think it is an extremely important factor that can't just be glossed over when talking about the US government.

First of all, it is the responsibility of the entire international nuclear community to police nuclear arms; America merely reacts more proactively and forcefully than the rest of the international community. The goal of this community is simple - limit the creation of new nuclear arms and retain the current status quo.

because the current status quo would give the US the advantage and the ability to police other nations while they do not hold themselves accountable. this has been significant not only with the US but with other countries as well, like the running of the united nations.

"Death to America! Kill the Americans!" It is pretty obvious that the US has been singled out, and they don't like us. Probably due to a combination of *our* proactive stance, forceful actions, and overall influence.

considering americans have attmpted to assert their influence over the middle east due to what they think of as "right". i would be pissed off as well if i lived in those countries if another nation, with people of different culture and ideals attempted to come in and tell me what i should do. an example is the cuban missile crisis. the world came alarmingly close to nuclear war, and who were the instigators? the US and cuba and to a lesser extent the soviet union.

We're instigating and prolonging violence all over the world before Sept. 11th? Could you please offer some examples? Of course, if you're saying those caused the Sept. 11th attack, I guess we could also blame victims of rape as having "wanted it", or lynch-mob victims, "he shouldn't have been born black". Please, I'm quite clueless as to what violence we've "instigated".

let's see, the continuation of the french/vietnamese conflict in vietnam as a support of french imperalism. the instances of attempting to extend influence in south america by placing dictators that supported the US than leaders that may have a slight socialist leaning.

this article explains better than me as to why "hatred of americans" is predominant in the world: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3068616/

other areas where US acted without support from the united nations, the very structure created for the "world policing" as you have said? as sited from that article: Bosnia, Haiti and Kosovo. another three examples of the US taking matters into their own hands without consideration of the world community. BUT i am willing to admit that some good has come out of those invasions, except historians must critically analyze what has happened in each area individually and see the long term effects before we are able to make any sort of judgement.

i fail to see why rape victims have anything to do with this discussion. because rape victims didn't offer acts of violence and in turn got raped. the US has maintained its stance as the world's watchdog for many decades and it is only an expected result that the sept 11th attacks happened. i am not saying that the sept 11th attacks were justified, i am only saying that the US has thrown around their weight as shown in the past, and it didn't take a genius to realize what could result from that.

and let's not even go into the whole situation about blacks and racism. i won't touch it. it's not even an analogy that can come close to describing the situation at hand.

Despite population increases, overall land use does not have to be increased. Look at Japan. Jeez.

i'm looking at japan. only 15% of japanese land is viable for production. and production is high but it doesn't account for much in the overall GPA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture,_forestry,_and_fishing_in_Japan

I'm surprised you didn't think about this. You're usually much more focused o_O.

Hungry people in the US? There is the existance of welfare. Are you refering to the homeless? I am confused as to who you are refering to.

i don't need you to tell me i need to be more focused on anything. we're talking about the situation at hand here, not about how focused i need to be or how bright i apparently appear or if i slipped up, etc etc. i am simply asking for a source. i don't think either of us are economic majors, and if you are, i would think it would be even easier to find a source for me.

oh yes, welfare. that is a whole other can of worms. yes i'm talking about the people surviving on food stamps and/or are homeless. for the most advanced nation in the world, there is great wealth inequality.
http://www.faireconomy.org/research/wealth_charts.html

and i thought you could only claim welfare for a certain amount of years before your help is cut off. that doesn't seem to be helping many of the people who are in need of aid. also, you can look at aid abroad as well. if the US is such a great power and has many resources available, then why doesn't it devote more of its GPA to international aid? but this is a problem with many countries in the world, not only the US.

Before I begin, I am not going to cite my sources for this example, simply because I do not need to. I will say that you can find this under any decent college level economics theory book, and hint that you should look at potato prices (within the last 10-15 years or so).

yes, i have heard your example before. i understand how production regulation works. there are many theories within a college level economics text. i have a few that i read but i don't say where specifically the US government that underproduction is necessary and a present fact. it is stated in many economic theories that underproduction OR overproduction is not sustainable.

i do agree with you. underproduction is used sometimes to balance supply & demand. but i don't think it is to such a large extent that you are claiming.

this very well written article: http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/ra03/APAC.pdf
states something different from you. "the crisis agriculture faces today is no accident. it is the direct result of expanding productive capacity while ignoring the need for policities to manage the use of that capacity. US officials replaced mechanisms for supporting prices and managing aggregate supply with a sudden preference for an unregulated free market."

it says in the article that in the past, US has traditionally attempted to adjust prices and control the market, probably using some of the techniques that you state. but the trend is different now, the article goes into an analysis of the 1996 farm bill. and it shows that it is not only overproduction that drops prices but it is a very dynamic and changing result of markets in the US and out of the US.

once again, i agree with you that the method you are suggesting could be used and has been used in the past. i am stating though that the US is moving away from that sort of regulation and that the method you are saying that they are using to support your argument is not the only way that the US regulates its markets. it would be a narrowminded view of the way economics works and that would not be beneficial for the country at all.

this discussion has moved away from the US being #1 or thinking they are #1 to the discussion of economics. so um, i'll attempt to drag it back to the actual discussion.

how about health insurance then? let's talk about that.
for a country stressing equality for all, why has it not set an example to be providing health care for all of its citizens? and why is health care so expensive there? and why is the insurance situation so straining on a lot of american families?

ShuiMei

07-06-2006, 07:23 PM

Just because a nation has multiple parties doesn't mean it's truly a multiparty system. Of course there's other parties within American politics but to say your system is a true multiparty system is just silly, federally speaking, it is a two-party system with fringe parties that don't have any real political influence or leverage. Third party candidates, in your nation, from what I observe are not taken seriously and don't get elected often, federally, your political system is dominated by two parties. Certainly there are more than two parties, but when it comes down to it, and this is a sentiment I often hear echoed by your fellow citizens, essentially, you just have a choice between red and blue, there's no other viable option, you could vote for green or orange or purple, but what difference would it make? Again, not speaking on a local level, speaking federally, from which my basic understanding of the American political system tells me your House of Representatives is divided amongst two parties (and perhaps some independents in the fray?) Furthermore, your current electoral system only reinforces this two-party dominance, and does nothing to help build and support a strong multiparty base in American politics. Down with single member disctrict pluralities!

Of course, there's media-bias everywhere, I never said that this was some phenomenom specific to the United States alone. With media-bias, I'm only singling out the United States because that's what the topic at hand is about, you said it yourself, if there were a topic about China of this nature, we would surely see the same kind of discussions, furthermore, there I was only speaking about how American media projects its culture and society to the world, and how the world interprets it, I wasn't even talking about the glorification of American policy and mainstream right-wing news outlets.

Yes, there's a difference between saying "no country is the best" and outright bashing the United States, I just don't think anyone here is doing that, there may have been some short, ignorant posts of that nature, but they are nothing worth getting worked up about. For to most part, I think a majority of the discussion posts in this thread were not simple acts of bashing, if you are interpreting my criticizing as bashing, then you're either taking them too personally or out of context, it's not my intention to "bash" them, and by "bash" I mean baselessly criticize the United States for everything and anything, I think I have fairly legitimate arguments, as do many other posters in this thread who were criticizing the United States.

My posts aren't intended to make you or any other Americans angry or upset, I'm not trying to stir shit or push your buttons, if anything I'm trying to explain and help you understand why other people around the world feel a sort of animosity towards your nation, because it seems like you don't really understand why.

KendoTiger

07-07-2006, 01:04 AM

well you said yourself beforehand. it makes sense as a US focused thread we're talking about the US. so do you admit that this is an area of government the US has to work on? i think it is an extremely important factor that can't just be glossed over when talking about the US government.

I agree that this is something that should be worked on. I have never claimed anything else.

because the current status quo would give the US the advantage and the ability to police other nations while they do not hold themselves accountable. this has been significant not only with the US but with other countries as well, like the running of the united nations.

First of all - every country within the nuclear community wishes to keep the status quo (it is not just America wanting to hold onto it's grip of power). There exists a delicate balance of power within the international community in regards to nuclear warfare - a double-edged sword which both helps and hinders (eh, I wonder if I could write an essay compairing this to "shooting an elephant").

Although a country has military superiority due to nuclear arms, it is unable to act against others with the same capability. With current international peace treaties and alliances, the vast majority of countries are protected from the threat of a nuclear reprisal. This keeps the threat of nuclear warfare in check.

If a politically unstable country, or one with "ambitions" gains nuclear status, they may ignore direct threats from the other nuclear powers, regardless of their actions.

Yes, it changes the status quo: it introduces a dangerous situation which can easily destroy much of the world. Rather than take a chance, all of the nuclear powers wish to keep the number of countries with nuclear arms as low as possible. The do this through the monitering of an international team of nuclear experts.

The simple fact is that being a "nuclear power" doesn't mean much in terms of real power any more. Enough countries have advanced to the point that the use of nuclear arms would bring about mutual destruction of all nations invovled. Self interested as we humans are, the most nuclear arms can give us is the ability to fuck the world if we had a bad day.

considering americans have attmpted to assert their influence over the middle east due to what they think of as "right". i would be pissed off as well if i lived in those countries if another nation, with people of different culture and ideals attempted to come in and tell me what i should do. an example is the cuban missile crisis. the world came alarmingly close to nuclear war, and who were the instigators? the US and cuba and to a lesser extent the soviet union.

Honestly, Iraq was all about pro-active defense from nuclear/biological weapons; afterwards, Bush decided it was easiest to keep Hussein sacked and call it a "Mission of Democracy". That aside, democracy is great: if they really liked the old system better, they can easily change it back themselves. The only reason there is disturbance in Iraq is because the people who were silenced finally have the ability to change something in their own country. The only ones who wish America should "butt out" are those who prospered under Hussein. *Although some idiotic American actions - ideology asside - can easily turn open public sentiment.* It would be best for America to withdraw and let the Iraqi people decide for themselves (although insuring the current government can and will carry out the desires of the people...).

If you really want to talk about this - let's talk about Israel and Palestine; it's so much more relevant.

As for the Cuban Missile Crisis, you have no clue what you're talking about. It was all a cold-war power struggle between the US and the USSR. Cuba was a pawn - the US didn't jump at them just because they were arming themselves. The goal was to place nuclear arms within range of each other (through Cuba and Turkey) for political clout. There were no "instigators", only two players - the US and USSR. Both countries managed to peacefully resolve the situation, assuring peace. So sorry, but the Cuban Missile Crisis is not an example of America "bullying smaller countries".

let's see, the continuation of the french/vietnamese conflict in vietnam as a support of french imperalism. the instances of attempting to extend influence in south america by placing dictators that supported the US than leaders that may have a slight socialist leaning.

Wrong again. America couldn't care less about French Imperialism - they were too worried about the "domino affect". The belief was that a weakened country would fall to Communism, starting a communist upsurge in neighboring countries throughout Asia. They were willing to support *anyone* who was fiercly anti-communist (the South Viet. Dictator was also supposedly manipulatable). Ho Chi Minh didn't have "slight socialist leanings": he was as communist as you can get.

i am not saying that the sept 11th attacks were justified, i am only saying that the US has thrown around their weight as shown in the past, and it didn't take a genius to realize what could result from that.

So you're saying that terrorism isn't justified, but should be expected? Well, that makes sense I suppose. I agree that more international invovlement would

I'll avoid the analogies since you've clarified your point. Although they were relevant to what you had said.

i'm looking at japan.

Alright, look at Japan, then realize what it means. Japan's population is increasing steadily without any change in land mass. As Japan's primary food-intake is from importation, that means *somewhere*, there is land paid for simply to produce food. Regardless if the population is increasing, the demand for food will keep that land *where-ever it may be* producing food. Yet, as the population increases, renovation of the old allows for a denser population per area.

London is an even better example. Rather than build on new land, decrepit old buildings are replaced with new ones which can house more people. Despite a population increase within London, the size of the city has remained virtually unchanged (still within the green zone).

i don't need you to tell me i need to be more focused on anything. we're talking about the situation at hand here, not about how focused i need to be or how bright i apparently appear or if i slipped up, etc etc. i am simply asking for a source. i don't think either of us are economic majors, and if you are, i would think it would be even easier to find a source for me.

I'm not trying to be critical - I'm just a little taken aback because you're missing small things you usally don't. It is easy - just look in a text book. How easy is that? I even found a citation that can be found in *every* college-level economics book! That's like... a lot of sources! :p

for the most advanced nation in the world, there is great wealth inequality.

Wealth inequality? Did you fail to realize America is capitalist? Where work is rewarded with money proportional to said work?

and i thought you could only claim welfare for a certain amount of years before your help is cut off. that doesn't seem to be helping many of the people who are in need of aid.

The point of welfare is to help those who help themselves. The reason why only some people qualify for welfare, and it only lasts for a certain amount of time, is because it is not meant to "provide" for them. It is meant to give them an opportunity to seize control of their lives and become a contributing member of society. It is very possible to go from absolute poverty to an upper-middle class life, with or without financial aid. You only need motivation.

Do they give life-long blank checks to the lazy people in Canada?

also, you can look at aid abroad as well. if the US is such a great power and has many resources available, then why doesn't it devote more of its GPA to international aid? but this is a problem with many countries in the world, not only the US.

I thought that America already contributes a great deal to international aid; in the past as well. In fact, I think that msn article mentions a few! :D lucky! My personal opinion is that it is not America's place to "provide" for other countries - aid should be given. A blank check to America's tax-wealth shouldn't.

i do agree with you. underproduction is used sometimes to balance supply & demand. but i don't think it is to such a large extent that you are claiming.

I fail to see how a price ceiling and/or price floor is not a "large" part of the market.

this very well written article: http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/ra03/APAC.pdf
states something different from you. "the crisis agriculture faces today is no accident. it is the direct result of expanding productive capacity while ignoring the need for policities to manage the use of that capacity. US officials replaced mechanisms for supporting prices and managing aggregate supply with a sudden preference for an unregulated free market.

it says in the article that in the past, US has traditionally attempted to adjust prices and control the market, probably using some of the techniques that you state. but the trend is different now, the article goes into an analysis of the 1996 farm bill. and it shows that it is not only overproduction that drops prices but it is a very dynamic and changing result of markets in the US and out of the US. "

...This supports what I just said... are you okay? o_O?

"The crisis is because we can produce more, but we don't have anything to control how much is produced. US officials ended price supports (limiters) and managing of production in favor of a free market." To paraphrase.

Agriculture undergoes self-inspection to preserve itself from price wars (danger of a free market); the US government offers incentives/subsidies. No limitations (production control) results in crisis.

The problem is that you're going into economics, and not looking at it's relevance to the topic. I can debate this in either a micro or marco econ standpoint - and you're right, a changing market obviously impacts prices. What you need to focus on is that over-production is possible, but harmful to the economy - that is why a capitalist society does not "feed the world's hunger" (your earlier comment). That's all that needs to be gained from this agricultural discussion.

this discussion has moved away from the US being #1 or thinking they are #1 to the discussion of economics. so um, i'll attempt to drag it back to the actual discussion.

The first Judes-sounding thing you've said all day.

--------
Sorry for the delay ShuiMei, I'll respond as fast as I'm able.

judes

07-07-2006, 02:40 AM

i find it interesting how an american, not to mention a privileged, white (or mixed, i think you are), middle class person can of course support their comfortable life without regarding perspectives of people from other countries who are maybe not "blessed" with democracy as you apparently think.

First of all - every country within the nuclear community wishes to keep the status quo (it is not just America wanting to hold onto it's grip of power). There exists a delicate balance of power within the international community in regards to nuclear warfare - a double-edged sword which both helps and hinders (eh, I wonder if I could write an essay compairing this to "shooting an elephant").

yes, but which is the country that is the one running in waving "swords" telling people that they cannot have this or cannot have that. of course it is simple to state that everyone wants the status quo, but the country that predominantly leads and rushes into "protect its safety" is of course the one to blame.

americans cannot act innocent and go "what? but why do these countries possibly look at us this way" without critically analyzing the reasons behind why the government chose to invade iraq. i don't think it was simply because of the protection of the US from the weapons of mass destruction. i don't find it right to force an ideology (democracy) upon a country that may not be ready for it. but thank you for being able to accept that the americans should withdraw and let the iraqi people rule for themselves.

and the war also has many different effects. it's not appropriate to point fingers at different countries and their activities in the world without looking at the actions of its own military. the torture of prisoners and then the leak of the video tapes where american soldiers were the ones who committed these crimes harmed the image of americans.

so once again, instead of saying "i don't understand why the rest of the world could possibly see us like this" or attempting to justify certain actions, why not clean up the actions of the US government? why not work on the supposed principles that the US apparently supports: freedom, democracy? why not proceed with the pursuit of world peace through peaceful means instead of military force?

As for the Cuban Missile Crisis, you have no clue what you're talking about. It was all a cold-war power struggle between the US and the USSR. Cuba was a pawn - the US didn't jump at them just because they were arming themselves. The goal was to place nuclear arms within range of each other (through Cuba and Turkey) for political clout. There were no "instigators", only two players - the US and USSR. Both countries managed to peacefully resolve the situation, assuring peace. So sorry, but the Cuban Missile Crisis is not an example of America "bullying smaller countries".

many historians would beg to disagree. there are many historians who would say that the US were the instigators or that the USSR were the instigators. of course since you study US history from american textbooks that you would see the perspective that "the US was not at fault and both of them resolved it peacefully". there were steps that the US took that gave them as much of the blame as the USSR for providing weapons to cuba. such as the attempt at overthrowing the cuban government many times by the US government, bay of pigs, for example.

i don't know how it wasn't US bullying another nation from a certain perspective. it's not necessarily a perspective i agree with, but it's one worth mentioning. the USSR was hopelessly outnumbered in terms of nuclear arsenal in comparison to the united states. and there are members of the US government that believed a strategical stash of nuclear arsenal in cuba means that the USSR would gain a better position. of course the US wouldn't like that because they want to have the upper hand, and of course they would stop any attempt at the USSR leveling the playing ground because they want to be on top. so instead of decreasing the amount of weaponry they have to match the soviets, which would be a peaceful solution, those talks fell apart, and then the government has to attempt backdoor ways to overthrow the government that is in place. no wonder some countries do not like the way the US is doing things.

although the support of france in the vietnam war was not because they supported french imperalism BUT you cannot possibly say that in supporting the french they did not support french imperialism. you can have a multitude of reasons to help someone, but in the end, if you help them, you are helping their cause. it's that simple. the US can justify their actions in vietnam all you want and wave the whole "oh no communist takeovers!" argument around but in the end, it once again ruined the image of the US in that they participated in a war that was none of their business and proceeded to drag it on for as long as possible and then having the gall to claim that it was a victory.

and you didn't refute my claim that the US has attempted again and again to overthrow or to support coups of dictatorships against nations in south america with leaders who have a socialist bent. i believe bolivia was one of the countries. i wasn't talking about ho chi minh in that statement, focus on the words SOUTH AMERICA please.

i read your comments about japan wrong. so i won't pursue it any further.

and when it comes to US foreign aid, i pointed out it was the problem of many different countries. only, couldn't the money spent on defense and invading other countries be spent on bettering other countries by sending them technologists and help? just a thought.

The problem is that you're going into economics, and not looking at it's relevance to the topic. I can debate this in either a micro or marco econ standpoint - and you're right, a changing market obviously impacts prices. What you need to focus on is that over-production is possible, but harmful to the economy - that is why a capitalist society does not "feed the world's hunger" (your earlier comment). That's all that needs to be gained from this agricultural discussion.

once again, i don't need your comments of "i think you should be more focused" or "are you ok".

the article supports my claim very well in that the US is moving AWAY from restriction instead of focusing ON restriction, like you have said. and i agree with you, regulation of under/over production should occur for price ceilings and price floors, except your statement was a blanketing one and WAY too overgeneral for the problem at hand in thinking that it was the technique used to regulate prices. underproduction is also harmful to a country, i'm sorry, but that's the basic truth. you cannot simply say that "we will go about controlling the prices of crops this way" this article points out that the US is lacking the controls that you suggest and is making no move in changing that. so my point is made.

and i am not saying that the US should overproduce to feed other people around the world. i am saying that your point simply does not make sense to me as the end all be all of way to regulate production. that was the impression i was getting from you, since you wrote in a condescending and "talking down" to manner hoping to educate me about economics, which i do not appreciate. i merely asked for sources.

The point of welfare is to help those who help themselves. The reason why only some people qualify for welfare, and it only lasts for a certain amount of time, is because it is not meant to "provide" for them. It is meant to give them an opportunity to seize control of their lives and become a contributing member of society. It is very possible to go from absolute poverty to an upper-middle class life, with or without financial aid. You only need motivation.

yes, said by a middle class american who never had to receive welfare or any kind of government help probably. it is easy to say "i wish for you to become a contributing member of society" but there are so many restrictions on welfare aid (such as for people who are poor but do not have children). the welfare system leaves much to be desired.

Wealth inequality? Did you fail to realize America is capitalist? Where work is rewarded with money proportional to said work?

then why is it that the richest 5% of america owns a large percent of the wealth in the nation? i don't see them doing much "work" besides sitting behind their desks on their inheritances or pushing around some money. you can look at articles everywhere these days, the wealth gap in america is WIDENING. the poor are getting poorer, the rich are getting richer. the basis for american capitalist society sounds good on paper, but you cannot ignore the fact that people are struggling in the country and that there are people working many jobs to make ends meet, but that there is limited support for them.

you didn't even address my concerns about health care. not even a single line.

The first Judes-sounding thing you've said all day.

once again, don't presume that you know me or that you can tell me what my opinions are or what i can or cannot or should or should not say. what i am surprised at is that some guy on the internet who i've maybe replied to a few threads with now proceed to tell me and act surprised that i actually have opinions against his. refrain from the personal comments.

KendoTiger

07-08-2006, 05:36 PM

Judes -

First, I haven't finished ShuiMei's comments. I'll post on your reply later, although I will mention a few things.

...

Don't assume you know me:

I am predominantly Chinese (although mixed). I am a first generation American. My parent's (and older generations) came to the US with no money. Literally. Let's just say my family wasn't "favored" by the PRC - it was enough we escaped at all. I am currently attending a first-tier college, paid for entirely by myself and my parents. My family has reached an upper-middle class lifestyle without breaking any laws, or relying on government-paid financial assistance. This does not mean I have anything against assistance - merely that it is possible to succeed without them.

Personally, I love democracy and the freedom it entails. I love being an American, whether it is considered "in" or not. I do not love all of America's actions - past or present, but being in a great country such as this affords me the luxery to say so. If you think your own country is "#1", it doesn't bug me one bit. I'll always think of America as "home".

Considering I was being condensending to you, I'll apologize. You're intelligent enough to write whatever you want.

Except when you make incorrect assumptions about me. That's just bs.

judes

07-09-2006, 05:05 AM

alright, i'll take back my comments as well.
it was just vague in my memories of the picture you posted and i remember you look mixed but predominantly white.

my family's experience is similar to yours, except the whole bringing themselves up from nothing took place in taiwan to the point where we were able to move to canada to have a new life different from the taiwanese life.

i don't think the traditional ideals of democracy have been upheld in ANY country in the world. there are things that annoy me about the US and things that annoy me about canada, taiwan, china, etc etc etc. but i believe it's important to talk about them.

i don't really care why americans think they're number 1 or their reasons for it. so in order for both of us to just leave the argument behind, i'm going to drop out of this thread since i doubt my opinions about certain US actions are going to change and there's no point in me contributing.

Chun Li

07-09-2006, 08:49 AM

I am a first generation American. My parent's (and older generations) came to the US with no money. Literally. Let's just say my family wasn't "favored" by the PRC - it was enough we escaped at all. I am currently attending a first-tier college, paid for entirely by myself and my parents. My family has reached an upper-middle class lifestyle without breaking any laws, or relying on government-paid financial assistance. This does not mean I have anything against assistance - merely that it is possible to succeed without them.

I just have to put in my 2cents and say that this is a similiar background with many of us here, a not just ABC's in the US, I mean, Chinese immigrants living all around the world. So, good job everyone!

BTW, I really enjoyed reading posts from the both of you. I'm so happy there's intelligent members at Jay-chou.net once again surfacing.

7nameless7

07-09-2006, 08:59 AM

hm.. i dunno.. but everythin uses america as a platform.. like currency.. ppl use US$1 as a standard amount used 2 convert 2 other currencies.. well.. i dunno or neither do i bother if its a number 1 country or not.. all i see in america is tat they are a good country. with wonderful reigners.. and also very stablised and well established.. also very rich and well equipped with good defence and a peacemaker.. tats all.. as long as theres no war.. no countries tryin 2 hurt each other... any country could b a good country as long as they can make their own ppl happy.. like Singapore 2!! :D

keikai

08-12-2006, 09:08 AM

Lol i think i misinterpreted your topic when I read the title. I thought it was going to be something like: "I hate americans! they think they're number 1!"

Haha anyway, I don't really look upon any country as the number 1 but sometimes I do appreciate america's freedom of speech thing. I know its not fully 'free' but its much better than the one in my country. There IS a freedom of speech policy too but its something really just for show. We can be jailed for alot or lets say...anything we say that hints revolt or something like that.
Furthermore, in america, I like the whole the 'American Dream' thing. In your country, there are alot of things you can pursue OUTSIDE education. In mine, education is just about everything. *sighs*

E_Revolutions

08-19-2006, 10:53 PM

cowboy

09-30-2006, 06:59 PM

Well personally i don't see America being number 1 but we do have the biggest milatary power and we are one of the 5 countries that are permanent on the UN. We also have an interesting history on how we became a country and well the US likes to define itself as the role model country. we have a democratic gov...freedom to vote freedom of speech and what not that some countries don't have...so in that sense america is number one but i don't feel in all senses America is number one

Eh? If you don't think the US is number 1, then just what the hell does it take to be number 1 in your book? I mean the US doesn't have a perfect record in anyhting, but I think if you want to take anaverage score the US is about 50 points ahead of the nearest competition. The US has a GDP of nearlly $11 trillion. to put that in perspective, it's little more than a fifth of the world's wealth (in one country). The US is home to the first functioning Democratic government. Its Constitution is one of the most widely known and copied documents in modern history. Its system of government and ideas of freedom have served as a model for the whole world in the past 230 years. The US has the largest and most technologically advanced military in human history. It spends more on its military each year than all the other nations in the world combined. It not only leads the UN, but it spearheaded its creation, and the UN only survives because of US participation and monetary contributions. The US is the single largest aid and welfare donor in the world. The US is the first to provide food and money to countries that are hit by disasters and tragedies, even to our enemies too. The US is one of the leading food donors to North Korea. Want me to continue? People think the US is number one for a reason, because by any rational measure, it just is.

orangeman

09-30-2006, 08:49 PM

Eh? If you don't think the US is number 1, then just what the hell does it take to be number 1 in your book? I mean the US doesn't have a perfect record in anyhting, but I think if you want to take anaverage score the US is about 50 points ahead of the nearest competition. The US has a GDP of nearlly $11 trillion. to put that in perspective, it's little more than a fifth of the world's wealth (in one country). The US is home to the first functioning Democratic government. Its Constitution is one of the most widely known and copied documents in modern history. Its system of government and ideas of freedom have served as a model for the whole world in the past 230 years. The US has the largest and most technologically advanced military in human history. It spends more on its military each year than all the other nations in the world combined. It not only leads the UN, but it spearheaded its creation, and the UN only survives because of US participation and monetary contributions. The US is the single largest aid and welfare donor in the world. The US is the first to provide food and money to countries that are hit by disasters and tragedies, even to our enemies too. The US is one of the leading food donors to North Korea. Want me to continue? People think the US is number one for a reason, because by any rational measure, it just is.

In my book, Ameirca isn't #1. For history, America is probably one of the shortest, with about 300 years only. Now compare that to the other civilizations, which span thousands of years. You think American is the only country that is interesting? Study the ancient civilizations, and how they formed the idea of "democracy". To compare America to the historic civilizations, Amerirca is nothing.

The United States has the biggest military power currently, becuase we invest the most in it. We force troops into places we feel are a threat. We have nuclear bombs and defensive measures to take down anything we see fit. We're rich because everyone wants to trade with the US, making it a huge global market. A democracy is in play, but I don't really ever feel free. There's always some law that can jail me for freedom of speech.

The United States is free, but falling apart. Welfare for people who can but don't try to work. Tax after tax, which doesn't decrease the national debt. Anyone can sue anyone, even kids for a stupid thing like an iPod. We fear of being bombed, natural/artifical disasters, and now, even food has its own problems.

America seems good on the outside, but inside, it's crappy.

xanimeotakux

09-30-2006, 09:09 PM

well let's see. the US may not be #1 right now, but i think they're pretty close. it's either china, india, or us for #1.

but anyways.

why should i think america is #1? because it influences so many countries. just look at their music for one thing. how many artists DOES NOT INCLUDE ENGLISH WORDS IN THEIR MUSIC. it's hard to name many, correct? and so many 'can't wait to debut in the U.S.' where they'll probably make the big $. i mean asian artists for one thing. all i can think of is jay chou for not using english words :P

our currency is still high, although pounds are high..er.

we have more freedom than many other countries.

the government supposedly keeps their promises..although illegal immigration a crucial problem here right now, and the freaking 5 year war is also.

the U.S. wasn't doing as good as before..but..it's still good.

i mean, look at the gas prices. the stock dropped by almost 10 bucks. we're even cheaper than canada! and china i think XD

cowboy

10-01-2006, 02:12 AM

In my book, Ameirca isn't #1. For history, America is probably one of the shortest, with about 300 years only. Now compare that to the other civilizations, which span thousands of years. You think American is the only country that is interesting? Study the ancient civilizations, and how they formed the idea of "democracy". To compare America to the historic civilizations, Amerirca is nothing.

The United States has the biggest military power currently, becuase we invest the most in it. We force troops into places we feel are a threat. We have nuclear bombs and defensive measures to take down anything we see fit. We're rich because everyone wants to trade with the US, making it a huge global market. A democracy is in play, but I don't really ever feel free. There's always some law that can jail me for freedom of speech.

The United States is free, but falling apart. Welfare for people who can but don't try to work. Tax after tax, which doesn't decrease the national debt. Anyone can sue anyone, even kids for a stupid thing like an iPod. We fear of being bombed, natural/artifical disasters, and now, even food has its own problems.

America seems good on the outside, but inside, it's crappy.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I'm sorry, that's your argument? A short history and a few social problems. Keep holding to your rhetorical book all you want, but I think it's time to check out a new one. Keep in mind that the US is the third largest nation in the world in resepcts to populaion. With a high population comes social problems, it's inescapble. Compare the other nations in the world with a similar population and then tell me the US is doing a bad job. And our short history, haha, that's completely relevant in determining who is "number 1" right now *rolls eyes*. Perhaps the saddest thing about your comments is that your knowledge of history and US jurisprudence is utterly sad. The only Ancient civiization that resembled anything close to an actual democracy was the city-state of Athens. The other 1,499 Greek city-states at that time were controlled by kings. Athens's democracy was later destroyed by Roman imperialism and wasn't resurrected until 1776 in Philidelphia. At the time, the US colonies were called an experiement. Now it is the most successful example of democracy in the history of world, and has the most modeled form of government on the planent.

Let's talk about suing. True, there are a lot of frivilous lawsuits in the US. However, would you prefer not to have the right to sue a car company if your seatbelts failed and daughter flew through the front windshield? Would you prefer to not be able get some justice if a factory poison's your local water supply and you and your whole family find themselves in the hospital with brain cancer? The right to sue is there to protect those who are wronged. The fact that it has been taken advantaged of in recent years can hardly be attributed to the culture of the US as a whole, but more so to certain individuals. Furthermore, compare the atmosphere in the US to the reality in other "top" countries around the world, like China. Hell, you can't even practice the religion you want there. Want to talk about the tens of millions of Chinese citizens killed by the policies of the CCP?

The US not only looks good on the outside, but it looks great on the inside too. Few countries in the world have the problem of too many people trying to immigrate in. I suggest you travel around the world a bit before you say with certainty that you could do as well, be as safe, live as free, and have as much economic opportunity as you do in the US.

c_c_

10-01-2006, 02:58 AM

but it's how they are abusing that title i can't stand!
they trying to stick their soldiers in every corner in the world... which they pretty much already have! in the name of democracy, but that's just an excuse, they are more into securing resources!

If you've ever taken government philosophy classes, you'd know why this is so. Government is actually a "social contract" that people enter into: they put their power into the hands of a government and the government, in turn, protects the people's interests and rights. but the highest "social contracts" that exist are on the level of national governments. once you go above that, into the international world, it's a "state of nature" where there is not "social contract" to protect one's rights. In other words, it's perfectly okay, on an international level, for a stronger nation like the USA to "hurt" weaker nations. *

And no, the UN does not count as an international government - it does not have a standing army, it cannot pass laws, it depends on national governments for its money - it can't really DO anything.

* This is Lockian philosophy. Hobbes would just say it's because people are inherently bad and we need a dictatorship w/ a philosopher king

well let's see. the US may not be #1 right now, but i think they're pretty close. it's either china, india, or us for #1.
but anyways.

India???!!!
whoa ... now that's a little far fetched ...
ahem~don't get mad at me, but India is FAR from #1 (unless it's population)

- it's not wealthy at ALL
- it does not possess a particularly strong influence on global politics, moderate, but not strong
- it's overpopulated by more than just a little

besides ... if you take the time to think about it at all, you'd see Japan or some of the European nations as #1 candidates before India ... just a little pointer

xanimeotakux

10-01-2006, 03:59 AM

cowboy

10-01-2006, 09:40 AM

this is just my opinon. india's just a bit behind china.
both populations are crazy. i think india is a little ahead now.
well, i've been...'skimming' a few articles, and they include india rising.
it's growing like china, just not as rapidly.

I'm not really sure what you are taking into account when you formulate your opinon on "top" nations around the globe. You mentioned earlier that China may be up there if not tied with the US for the top spot, no? You are aware of the horrific human rights record the CCP has? You are aware of widespread destruction of the environment in China, right? You do know that the Chinese government jails, beats, viciously tortures, rapes, and kills the practitioners of certain religious faiths, right? These cannot be the practices of a global leader. furthermore, most academics consider military, economic and cultural clout as the largest determinants in global prestige. China's sphere of influence, as well as india's, barely reaches out of Asia. On the contrary, America influences political and ecnomic decisions around the globe. China is not even close, it has a long, long way to go.

orangeman

10-01-2006, 10:14 AM

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
I'm sorry, that's your argument? A short history and a few social problems. Keep holding to your rhetorical book all you want, but I think it's time to check out a new one. Keep in mind that the US is the third largest nation in the world in resepcts to populaion. With a high population comes social problems, it's inescapble. Compare the other nations in the world with a similar population and then tell me the US is doing a bad job. And our short history, haha, that's completely relevant in determining who is "number 1" right now *rolls eyes*. Perhaps the saddest thing about your comments is that your knowledge of history and US jurisprudence is utterly sad. The only Ancient civiization that resembled anything close to an actual democracy was the city-state of Athens. The other 1,499 Greek city-states at that time were controlled by kings. Athens's democracy was later destroyed by Roman imperialism and wasn't resurrected until 1776 in Philidelphia. At the time, the US colonies were called an experiement. Now it is the most successful example of democracy in the history of world, and has the most modeled form of government on the planent. Let's talk about suing. True, there are a lot of frivilous lawsuits in the US. However, would you prefer not to have the right to sue a car company if your seatbelts failed and daughter flew through the front windshield? Would you prefer to not be able get some justice if a factory poison's your local water supply and you and your whole family find themselves in the hospital with brain cancer? The right to sue is there to protect those who are wronged. The fact that it has been taken advantaged of in recent years can hardly be attributed to the culture of the US as a whole, but more so to certain individuals. Furthermore, compare the atmosphere in the US to the reality in other "top" countries around the world, like China. Hell, you can't even practice the religion you want there. Want to talk about the tens of millions of Chinese citizens killed by the policies of the CCP?
The US not only looks good on the outside, but it looks great on the inside too. Few countries in the world have the problem of too many people trying to immigrate in. I suggest you travel around the world a bit before you say with certainty that you could do as well, be as safe, live as free, and have as much economic opportunity as you do in the US.

The problem with your statements is that you don't live in America. I assume this because your location says Taipei,Taiwan.

You may think America has the most successful example of democracy, but I object. Everything looks good on paper, but when set to motion, flaws appear. The basic constitutional rights are given to every reisdent in America, but those can be taken away. People don't vote in Congress, representatives do. They are supposed to represent the citizens but often don't care what we say.

On the issue of freedom of religion, you are not guaranteed safety. You can do and be whatever you want, but there's always religious hate crimes. Call the cops, they might also hate you. To compare with the Communist Party, you can still die in America, just that the government is not invovled.

People sue people for money. Rarely does it benefit anyone. Profit can result from lawsuits, and that's how the cycle works. You can sue for a faulty seatbelt and earn $1.5mil, but will you share that? Probably not. The company will take some time to change it's designs, and meanwhile, several hundred others would have died. That benefits no one, except the richer person.
The NSA spies on its citizens, and doesn't that violate privacy rights? And immigration is a problem. We're trying to keep people out, not let them come in.

I don't travel much because I am still in school. It steals all the time I have. I know how my country is run and behaves. It's not the "super good country" you praise of.

cowboy

10-01-2006, 01:55 PM

The problem with your statements is that you don't live in America. I assume this because your location says Taipei,Taiwan.

Well, it is no secret I don't live in the USA...now. Hell, you can go to my website, located in my signature, and read about everything and even see some pictures if you'd like. There, is however, no problem with my statements. I was born and raised in Lincoln, Nebraska, USA. I spent 23 years of my life living in the US. How old are you agian? So much for that argument.

You may think America has the most successful example of democracy, but I object. Everything looks good on paper, but when set to motion, flaws appear. The basic constitutional rights are given to every reisdent in America, but those can be taken away. People don't vote in Congress, representatives do. They are supposed to represent the citizens but often don't care what we say.

Of course congress cares what "we" say. Without us on their side, they are out of a job. I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue here. That the US system and Constitution isn't perfect? Duh, you want to show me a nation with a perfect system? I'd also like to hear how my Constitutional rights can be taken away. Perhaps its because you haven't had civics yet in Middle School, but the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Do I need to define "supreme" or can you look that one up yourself? If the government even tries to take away one of your Constitutional rights you have the right to take it before the Supreme Court, which has the final say over any law in the US, even over the President and his administration. It does look great on paper, and it works quite well too. Which is why, in respects to the Constitution, there has only been 17 additions to the original document since it was ratified in 1789.

Also, a bit confused as to why you are against Congress representing the people. The US has, and has always had, a representative Democracy. Even Athens had a representative democracy. A true, direct, democratic system would be a logistical nightmare in a country the size of the US.

On the issue of freedom of religion, you are not guaranteed safety.
Uh, yes I am.

You can do and be whatever you want,
Uh, no I can't. Religious practices involving murder, torture, and drug use for example are outlawed in most cases in the US. There is a whole bunch of Supreme Court case law about this issue, and, trust me, it is quite liberal in allowing almost any and all spiritual practices and beliefs to be exercised freely in the US. Contrast that to nations like China, where merely meditating in a public park can get you beatened, jailed, tortured, raped, killed, and your organs harvested and sold to the highest bidder.

but there's always religious hate crimes. Call the cops, they might also hate you. To compare with the Communist Party, you can still die in America, just that the government is not invovled.

Just what on earth are you talking about here? If you call the cops, they'll hate you? People die everywhere, in every coultry, every hour of the day, for many different reasons which have nothing to do with the quality of the nation they live in. Are oyu trying to tell me that its ok for the CCP to kill Chinese citizens for voicing an opinion, or holding a spiritual belief because people die everywhere? time to rethink your moral philosophy kiddo.

People sue people for money. Rarely does it benefit anyone. Profit can result from lawsuits, and that's how the cycle works. You can sue for a faulty seatbelt and earn $1.5mil, but will you share that? Probably not. The company will take some time to change it's designs, and meanwhile, several hundred others would have died. That benefits no one, except the richer person.

If I sue for a faulty seatbelt and win $1.5 million, then anyone who drives that car that had an accident would be able to sue for the same reason. This knowledge then forces companies to recall models that have defective parts to avoid the astronomical cost of litigation and lawsuits. The end result is a better seatbelt in newer models, and owners of older models can take their car in to get better seatbelts installed. Want to tell me how no one benefits from this? Advances in gender and racial equality were made in this way. Desegregation was won through legal battles and lawsuits. Most of the saftey devices, freedoms, and protections that you take for granted were won through litigation. You ocmpare what you see in the US with how things are in other countries and you'll know why the US is a leader in more areas than your young mind can even comprehend at this point. Litigation serves a valuable purpose, but as I've already admitted, some do take advantage of it and some get hurt.

The NSA spies on its citizens, and doesn't that violate privacy rights? And immigration is a problem. We're trying to keep people out, not let them come in.

The fact that you enjoy privacy rights at all in the US is a treat you rarely encouter almost everywhere in the world. The very idea of the right to privacy is rather new, and isn't even in the Constitution but it evolved through Supreme Court caselaw. One of those funny unwritten laws we have in the States. The NSA wire tapping program that Bush authorized will be judged by the Supreme Court for its legality. There is a fine line between protecting the country and protecting rights. Think you can walk it any better?

As for immigration, it isn't that big of a problem. The mediajust hypes it up. Immigrants come in everyday, and they serve a vital purpose. The US needs them, we like them. The main problem with immigration is the legal channels for immigration. The US is so backed up that it takes years to get your case processed. It needs to be modernized, but that kind of change will be slow coming. I think you can compare how long it takes to immigrate to Canada with the US and understand for yourself how much people from all over the world want to live and work in the US. You don't see people clamoring like that to get into China or Mexico.

I don't travel much because I am still in school. It steals all the time I have. I know how my country is run and behaves. It's not the "super good country" you praise of.

You know, when I was a teenager I used to think I knew everything too. But, as I grew up, I learned I really knew nothing about how the world worked back then. I suggest you start reading a little more into the issues that you claim know so well and then come back here with an arguement I can work with. No one is claiming that the US is perfect, but it is, overall, the best there is. Which, after all, is the subject of this thread.

Cowboy, out. :cowboy:

orangeman

10-02-2006, 12:57 AM

Well, it is no secret I don't live in the USA...now. Hell, you can go to my website, located in my signature, and read about everything and even see some pictures if you'd like. There, is however, no problem with my statements. I was born and raised in Lincoln, Nebraska, USA. I spent 23 years of my life living in the US. How old are you agian? So much for that argument.

My age makes no difference in this argument, or any other argument. You may think you have more matured opinions than me just becuase you're older, but that's often untrue.

Of course congress cares what "we" say. Without us on their side, they are out of a job. I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue here. That the US system and Constitution isn't perfect? Duh, you want to show me a nation with a perfect system? I'd also like to hear how my Constitutional rights can be taken away. Perhaps its because you haven't had civics yet in Middle School, but the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Do I need to define "supreme" or can you look that one up yourself? If the government even tries to take away one of your Constitutional rights you have the right to take it before the Supreme Court, which has the final say over any law in the US, even over the President and his administration. It does look great on paper, and it works quite well too. Which is why, in respects to the Constitution, there has only been 17 additions to the original document since it was ratified in 1789.

We're so arrogant in the law. We think the Constitution protects us from anything, but it doesn't. The government has more laws, and they can enforce a lot of lesser-known laws.

Also, a bit confused as to why you are against Congress representing the people. The US has, and has always had, a representative Democracy. Even Athens had a representative democracy. A true, direct, democratic system would be a logistical nightmare in a country the size of the US.

Representatives don't listen to the people who voted them in.

Uh, no I can't. Religious practices involving murder, torture, and drug use for example are outlawed in most cases in the US. There is a whole bunch of Supreme Court case law about this issue, and, trust me, it is quite liberal in allowing almost any and all spiritual practices and beliefs to be exercised freely in the US. Contrast that to nations like China, where merely meditating in a public park can get you beatened, jailed, tortured, raped, killed, and your organs harvested and sold to the highest bidder. Just what on earth are you talking about here? If you call the cops, they'll hate you? People die everywhere, in every coultry, every hour of the day, for many different reasons which have nothing to do with the quality of the nation they live in. Are oyu trying to tell me that its ok for the CCP to kill Chinese citizens for voicing an opinion, or holding a spiritual belief because people die everywhere? time to rethink your moral philosophy kiddo.

I said you have the free will to do what you want. But if someone decides to kill you, it's not always the governments' fault. Because you can't blame the government for every problem.

I guess you haven't seen racist cops. The "black man drives a nice car, let's go check it out", meanwhile the white guy who might've stolen a car, drives past.
Well, I'm not telling you anything is ok. You can protest in China if you think it's wrong, but that's a bad idea.

If I sue for a faulty seatbelt and win $1.5 million, then anyone who drives that car that had an accident would be able to sue for the same reason. This knowledge then forces companies to recall models that have defective parts to avoid the astronomical cost of litigation and lawsuits. The end result is a better seatbelt in newer models, and owners of older models can take their car in to get better seatbelts installed. Want to tell me how no one benefits from this? Advances in gender and racial equality were made in this way. Desegregation was won through legal battles and lawsuits. Most of the saftey devices, freedoms, and protections that you take for granted were won through litigation. You ocmpare what you see in the US with how things are in other countries and you'll know why the US is a leader in more areas than your young mind can even comprehend at this point. Litigation serves a valuable purpose, but as I've already admitted, some do take advantage of it and some get hurt.

After many deaths, and many lawsuits, then the company will put the recall in effect. And then there will be antoher faulty product, and the process starts over.

The fact that you enjoy privacy rights at all in the US is a treat you rarely encouter almost everywhere in the world. The very idea of the right to privacy is rather new, and isn't even in the Constitution but it evolved through Supreme Court caselaw. One of those funny unwritten laws we have in the States. The NSA wire tapping program that Bush authorized will be judged by the Supreme Court for its legality. There is a fine line between protecting the country and protecting rights. Think you can walk it any better?

There is no fine line protecting the country and rights. Once you say some keywords like "terrorist", the NSA ecordings start. And when you're a suspected terrorist, all force can be taken to get you. The government has ways to gather intelligence on you. And the NSA has already heard what millions of Americans say.

See how advanced we are. A free service like Google Maps can find my house, I wonder what billions of dollars invested in security can do? You are told there's privacy rights, but if no one knows they're being spied on, who would react?

As for immigration, it isn't that big of a problem. The mediajust hypes it up. Immigrants come in everyday, and they serve a vital purpose. The US needs them, we like them. The main problem with immigration is the legal channels for immigration. The US is so backed up that it takes years to get your case processed. It needs to be modernized, but that kind of change will be slow coming. I think you can compare how long it takes to immigrate to Canada with the US and understand for yourself how much people from all over the world want to live and work in the US. You don't see people clamoring like that to get into China or Mexico.

The US needs immigrants, but not to a standard of inviting them in. Most immigrants are needed becuase they do the jobs others won't take, for the lowest pay. For them, there's no choice. Now, is that really a good opportunity to start a new life, in the lower ends of society, hated by others?

You know, when I was a teenager I used to think I knew everything too. But, as I grew up, I learned I really knew nothing about how the world worked back then. I suggest you start reading a little more into the issues that you claim know so well and then come back here with an arguement I can work with. No one is claiming that the US is perfect, but it is, overall, the best there is. Which, after all, is the subject of this thread.

Again, you assume I'm an immature teenager. If I know every claim that well, I'd be writing political papers. But I don't write political papers. I don't care how old someone is because even teens have valid opinions. We can't even vote for a president that's affecting our future. Call that fair? Adults think they make the best decisions, but in this age, they've failed to validate that.

The overall subject of this thread is how and why America is "considered" to be #1. I'm merely pointing out flaws in the government.

cowboy

10-02-2006, 05:09 PM

My age makes no difference in this argument, or any other argument. You may think you have more matured opinions than me just becuase you're older, but that's often untrue.
The first paragraph and already you made a reading comprehension error. My reference to your age here was to illustrate, contrary to your former affirmation, that I have lived in the US far longer than you've even been alive, therefore nullifying the opening statement of your last post.

We're so arrogant in the law. We think the Constitution protects us from anything, but it doesn't. The government has more laws, and they can enforce a lot of lesser-known laws.
Again, the Constitution is supreme law of the land. None of the "lesser-known lwas" that you speak of (all of which can be found easily on any government website) fall within the bounds of the protections and framework set forth in the Constitution, for if they didn't, they couldn't be a law. Perhaps you are angry at the Supreme Courts interpretations of the Constitution and therefore the constitutionality of some of the laws that you disagree with. That is your right, but hardly does much to make a case against the sheer brilliance and success of the document.

Representatives don't listen to the people who voted them in.
Well, this a pathetic response. Representatives have to listen to their constituents, otherwise they don't get reelected. They rarely listen to teenagers or anyone else who can't vote though, if that is your concern. They represent the majority, and try their best to appease the minority at the same time. That is what democracy is.

I said you have the free will to do what you want. But if someone decides to kill you, it's not always the governments' fault. Because you can't blame the government for every problem.

I guess you haven't seen racist cops. The "black man drives a nice car, let's go check it out", meanwhile the white guy who might've stolen a car, drives past.
Well, I'm not telling you anything is ok. You can protest in China if you think it's wrong, but that's a bad idea.

This doesn't even merit a reply.

After many deaths, and many lawsuits, then the company will put the recall in effect. And then there will be antoher faulty product, and the process starts over.
So...if people couldn't sue, then nothing would change, right? That is an argument FOR litigation. Which side are you on, I'm getting confused. Litigation is cumbersome, sometimes fivilous, and extremely taxing on the social coffers, but in a society that abides by rule of law, it is one of the main instruments of change. I beg of you, to compare the scenario I presented to you in my previous post to how it would be handled in other nations and the results.

Once you say some keywords like "terrorist", the NSA ecordings start. And when you're a suspected terrorist, all force can be taken to get you. The government has ways to gather intelligence on you. And the NSA has already heard what millions of Americans say.
Which movie did you get this informaiton from? Enemy of the State? I loved that movie, but it is, afterall, a movie. Any evidence gathered from wiretapping without a warrant cannot be used in a court of law against an American citizen. The NSA probably listens on thousands of phone numbers they are authorized (with a warrant) to do so. I'm sure they also monitor internaitonal calls for sevurity purposes. Keep your unsubstantiated conspiracy theories for your friends, I'd rather not waste my time reading them here.

The US needs immigrants, but not to a standard of inviting them in. Most immigrants are needed becuase they do the jobs others won't take, for the lowest pay. For them, there's no choice. Now, is that really a good opportunity to start a new life, in the lower ends of society, hated by others?
Now you are insulting the intellgences of the immigrants who come here. Most of them know what to expect when they get here. The same thing my ancestors knew when they came here. That is, if they want anything, they'll have to work hard for it. Immigrants, especially the illegals, know that being poor in the US is a hundred times easier than being poor where they're from. In the US there is free medical care, food, shelter, etc for the poor. Contrast that with Central and South American countries, most of which lack any social welfare programs. Why don't you let the immigrants themselves decide what is or isn't a better opportunity for them, rather than you, who knows nothing of their life or hardships, telling them how bad they have it.

Again, you assume I'm an immature teenager. If I know every claim that well, I'd be writing political papers. But I don't write political papers.

Teenagers, by deffinition, are immature. Sorry I have to burst your bubble, but you really are just too young to understand a lot about the world you live in. That's not your fault, so don't take it so personally. I also don't expect you to accept the fact that you are just a kid who doesn't even know half of what you think you know until you are out of school with a career and family.

But I don't write political papers. I don't care how old someone is because even teens have valid opinions. We can't even vote for a president that's affecting our future. Call that fair? Adults think they make the best decisions, but in this age, they've failed to validate that.

You don't care, but everyone else does. There is a perfectly legitiment reason why you can't vote until you are 18 (which used to be 21 until the 70's). As a teenager, you lack the life experience and a complete education to be trusted to make informed decisions about major policy issues. How can you vote on a tax levy when you don't even work and pay taxes? Would you care to explain your last sentence. How have the decisions of adults (which have created everything you see) proved inadaquate? This s a reaching accusation you give, yet you present no supporting arguments.

The overall subject of this thread is how and why America is "considered" to be #1. I'm merely pointing out flaws in the government.

So you wait till the end to get to the point. Well, if you are only pointing out flaws in the US system, how does this do anything constructive for the argument of whether the US is #1 or not? So the system isn't perfect, want to sho me one that is? Want to make a better one yourself? The US system is the best there is, which is also why it is one of the most copied forms of goverence on the planet. The US is the only remaining economic, political, cultural, and military superpower on earth. That, my dear lad, makes it #1.

KendoTiger

10-02-2006, 10:39 PM

Very nice responses cowboy.

Basically eliminates anything I need to respond to from orangeman, although I will write my own little statement.

Yes Orangeman, it is true that teenagers can have valid opinions on matters beyond the "normal scope" of their maturity level - their statements, when thought out, should not be ignored. After all, it is the youth who will eventually come to run the world - to discard their point of view would be stupid. Yet at the same time, when views are expressed in an incomplete, illogical, or otherwise immature manner, it makes it hard to give them any worth. Simply put, if a teenager writes like an adult, they'll be taken seriously; when they don't write as such, they are not. Although some youth might be intellectually capable of understanding complex social issues, the majority are not - or, in the best case, simply do not care. Hence things such as age restrictions on voting, drinking, smoking, legal sex (etc). You can not apply "maturity" to everyone who is a certain age, but you can make a thought out guess. It really isn't that bad to keep people from voting until they've either graduated high school, or have worked to support themselves. Until you are at a point where you have to support yourself, you are simply too immature to take life seriously.

Lawsuits are monitered by insurance agencies to prevent people from unjustly gaining money - well, it is for selfish reasons (the agencies don't want to pay out money), but it is efficient in keeping false lawsuits down.

Part of the legal system allows for the appeal of unconstitutional laws (which would include those "obscure laws" you mentioned earlier as "hat tricks" the government could use on you); one aspect which I continually find amazing, if not expensive :/ .

Constituency-wise, it is true that there is an increase on party-line voting, but this was covered between me, Judes, and Shui Mei (I believe). Please check the past posts for more understanding :).

There were other things I was planning on covering, but I think cowboy summed them up nicely. I'm really not adding anything here... so ... here you go [\/]<3 < is a present box. Yeah...

If morality is based on social opinion, tied into religion, and then draped over government - wouldn't you get two (or more) countries that could not possibly coexist? What about a "nonsecular country" like the US? Although there is undeniable influence of christianity within the government (republicans *cough*), are we not doing a good job of keeping things equitable? Are we hated by extremists because we allow for tolerance, or is it because we are christianity based? Then why isn't there more violence directed at all christian nations? It could be that we exert tolerance outside of our country's bounds, taking away their power (fear and hate lead to power - the dark side of the force XD). Then why are we blamed for violence they start?

Yeah, stupid little rant. Don't respond to it unless you want to horribly bash me. Then I can respond :D

orangeman

10-05-2006, 10:50 AM

To make a last stand for myself, I will oppose democracy as the best model for a government. True that there is no perfect government, but is democracy really the best model for the world?

If every nation applaudes the idea of democracy, then why aren't they adopting it? The United States forces democratic ideas onto countries like Iraq. Iraq doesn't have the best example of politics, but it has worked for them. But their style of government is not good enough for Americans. We have to apply democracy, even if it is forced upon.

People don't love democracy. It works for the US, but applying it to other countries does not guarantee success. Other democratic countries don't go waging wars and policies for the sake of "democracy". And what meaning does democracy mean now? Freedom? Everyone has freedom, but some people fear the consequences to get that freedom. Hiding in fear is not a good life for me.
How about rights? Oh right, I don't have many rights. I'm a teenager.

The system of democracy in America is corrupt. We should pick our own asses up before lending a hand to others.

KendoTiger

10-06-2006, 04:01 AM

To make a last stand for myself, I will oppose democracy as the best model for a government. True that there is no perfect government, but is democracy really the best model for the world?

Then which form of government guarentee's the voice of the people (in some form or another) and limits excessive corruption? The closest thing is probably a Limited Constitutional Monarchy ("Representative Democracy" such as Britain). The reason why Democracy is so wide spread today is that it works. Let's look at Communism - only four (out of more than 200) countries still practice it; even then, they are not "pure" communist states, but rather have had to succeed control to prevent collapse (such as the PRC).

---
If every nation applaudes the idea of democracy, then why aren't they adopting it? The United States forces democratic ideas onto countries like Iraq. Iraq doesn't have the best example of politics, but it has worked for them. But their style of government is not good enough for Americans. We have to apply democracy, even if it is forced upon.

Every nation which undergoes a political revolution chooses Democracy - look towards Africa and Central/South America for recent examples. This is of course in exception to a power vaccuum in which another Authoritarian seizes power (this is without consent of the people, and can therefore not be considered "chosen"). Have you seen any other countries choose something else within the last 50 years?

I suppose a dictator who commits genocide against his own countrymen is better than giving the Iraqi people the choice of their own government? I suppose you think it "works for them" to be poisened for no reason other than their ethnicity?

The biggest problem you don't grasp, is that democracy really is selfless: if the majority of Iraqi people want to change the government back to an authoritarian one, Democracy allows them to. Unlike Authoritarian Governments, which are self-supporting, Democracy does not try to maintain itself - that is for the will of the people. Therefore, once a Democracy is established, it is up to the people to decide who they want to rule them - they can choose either to continue their newly formed Democratic Government, or they can choose to elect an Authoritarian to power.

--
People don't love democracy.

Then why is it the most used form of government in the world today?

--
It works for the US, but applying it to other countries does not guarantee success. Other democratic countries don't go waging wars and policies for the sake of "democracy". And what meaning does democracy mean now? Freedom? Everyone has freedom, but some people fear the consequences to get that freedom.

A Democracy's "success" does not depend on if the people choose to carry on a democracy - it is based on giving the people the opportunity to have a say in their government. This is the fundamental principle behind democracy - to let the people form a government that represents their views. If a government does not represent and act on the will of the people, what good is it? *Note: if you argue about party-line voting, I'll have to get back to you on this: two midterms next week.*

I'll get to your "other countries don't impose democracy" thing later on. Suffice to say, that if you look at history, you'll see other countries having done worse in their "oh so long" past (Britain and the Opium Wars for instance).

Your "they have it, they're just scared" comment relating to freedom is just terrible. I'm sorry, I honestly listened to you until you said this. Then my reaction was like, "sigh, kids". Sorry about it - but look at it this way: your comment is the same as saying, "If you want to marry the girl you love - swim through this swimming pool of acid; don't blame me if you're too scared to reach her - she's there and I'm giving you the freedom to do it." Simply put, if people are unable to be free from fear of retribution, they cannot be considered free. No choice exists if it is unattainable from the beginning.

--
Hiding in fear is not a good life for me.
How about rights? Oh right, I don't have many rights. I'm a teenager.

The rights you claim to not have, are the rights that are keeping you safe. I don't know how immature you are, but please look to the outside world. See what social activists (who only want to better their government for their people) have to go through in the PRC. Watch journalists get arrested for trying to print stories, about the men within the PRC who were appalled by what happened at Tiannamen Square.

If nothing else - READ the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights - and then realize how they protect almost everything you do and say.

If you're too immature to realize why there are age limits to things like smoking, driving, drinking, owning guns, and voting - then you're too immature for me to respond to this statement. I'll do it regardless, even if immature and horribly uninformed, I do not think you're without the ability to learn (unless you give in to pride).

--
The system of democracy in America is corrupt. We should pick our own asses up before lending a hand to others.

This is interesting - please provide examples so we can all better understand your point of view. I love it when people can back up claims they make - I'll be waiting for your response :)

cowboy

10-08-2006, 03:00 AM

To make a last stand for myself, I will oppose democracy as the best model for a government. True that there is no perfect government, but is democracy really the best model for the world?

I would say "no", if there was another form of government that has so consistently protected the rights, freedom, and voice of the people in nearly all of its applications all over the globe thoughout history. Nonetheless, since Kendo and I are so stupid not to see how democracy is not the best model of government, would you care to enlighten us? Of course, you know, that would requie you to make an intellegent argument.

If every nation applaudes the idea of democracy, then why aren't they adopting it?
Most have, and those that haven't are generally totalitarian regimes that forcibly hold down the voice of the pople with the iron thumb of the military i.e. China and North Korea.
Iraq doesn't have the best example of politics, but it has worked for them. But their style of government is not good enough for Americans. We have to apply democracy, even if it is forced upon.
Yeah, Saddam was a peach wasn't he? Why didn't us Americans welcome him Stateside to run for president? Oh yeah, because like all authoritarian leaders he is guilty of supressing the basic human rights of his people and slaughtering select ethnic groups that he was charged with protecting. Who exactly is unhappy with the deomcracy in Iraq? Do you know? Do you have any evidence, numbers, polls, stats? Sure Al Queda and other extremist groups trying to destabilize Iraq don't like democracy, but do you really think that other Iraqis (all things equal) would rather have another dictator like Saddam? Give me a break.

People don't love democracy.
That's a bold claim, because I'm sure you know most of the "people", right? I think you meant to say, "I don't like democracy."

It works for the US, but applying it to other countries does not guarantee success.
It has worked for many countries, and aside from a few historical examples (Wiemar Republic to name one) it has worked beautifully. This is why it is the most practiced form of government on the planet.

Other democratic countries don't go waging wars and policies for the sake of "democracy".
No? Then what the Hell was that whole WWII thing about? The Allies didn't stop with pushing Hitler back within his own borders, they continued and invaded Germany to completely eliminate Fascism from the face of Europe. Read a history book for God's sake, you're wasting our time.

And what meaning does democracy mean now? Freedom? Everyone has freedom, but some people fear the consequences to get that freedom. Hiding in fear is not a good life for me.
How about rights? Oh right, I don't have many rights. I'm a teenager.
So....there's no difference between the sweeping freedoms of free speech, religious practice, press, assembly, due process, etc and the severly limited freedoms you experience under a totalitarian regime like the CCP? I'm sorry, but Kendo has already addressed this idiocy sufficiantly.

The system of democracy in America is corrupt. We should pick our own asses up before lending a hand to others.
Yep, there are proven cases of corruption in the US system...and the UK system...and the Taiwanese system....and the Indian system, but the difference between corruption in a democracy and corruption in a country like China, is that the corrupt government officials are not above the law under a democratic system. So, corrupt officials can be easily removed. In China, an official can't be removed unless the Central Committe says so. There is no rule of law in totalitarian regimes like China. Therefore, corruption is systemic and often symbiotic to the relationship under these systems. Pick up a nespaper and rad about the countless spouts of unrest and clashes with police in the Mainland due to allegations against a corrupt official. Compare that to Taiwan where thousands are peacibly protesting in the streets against the alleged corruption of the PRESIDENT. The last time thousands of people demonstrated for anything in China was 1989 and that ended in one of the worst government crackdowns in modern history.

The US has "Picked its ass" up quite well, and has, without your permission, acted as a beacon of freedom and democracy for the world since its inception in 1776.

I ask you again, if the US is not #1, who is and why? If you can't answer this question, then I suggest you start a new thread titled "Why I hate the US", then we can have an equally civilized discussion about the merits of the US system. Savy?

KendoTiger

10-08-2006, 06:04 AM

Pirates of the Carribean!

Sigh, I love that movie...

Anyways, back to topic:

Earlier it was pointed out (I forget by who) that America "lacks the thousands of years of history as other countries, and therefore is less amazing" (to paraphrase). I thought this was particularly interesting for a few reasons.

1. Just to cite a brief flaw in this statement (paraphrased), there were no "countries" with thousand's of years of history. A country is defined by geographic borders - something not conclusively defined until recently (last few hundred years). It would be more accurate to say "people" or "civilization", except with demographic, dynastic, and regional changes, civilizations and even ethnicities can change. Although it would be possible to claim that current Chinese are descendants from one of the first four* civilizations to be documented, to claim that China has been in existance for thousands of years is flawed. To even claim that Chinese civilization has been in existance is flawed, unless the speaker addresses various events in history (influx of cultural aspects).

2. Yet, I do believe that conservatism in relation to "the past" has influenced modern-day countries. One of the reasons why America was able to succeed was that it was not tied to past traditions which limited cultural and social (social-law) growth.

More on this later - time to sleep.

wil69

10-08-2006, 09:13 AM

you mean we aren't? haha jk

the reason for the american swagger is probably because in a relatively short period, america has become a superpower of the world in terms of economics, politics, and military strength. the culture itself prides itself on being the country of freedom and how great that freedom is. It is flamboyant and cocky, because basically, it can be.

I am by no means justifying why americans should act this way. I personally always try to downplay my strengths instead of boasting about them. but thats the way it is and the american culture will always be this way no matter how much the rest of the world hates it.

Sugar&Spice

10-09-2006, 06:41 AM

And yes I do have something to add. Representatives don't really help the people. They get into office and they do nothing. Yeah they have programs that are supposed to wrok for the peope. But it never dose, the waiting lists are always so long, and when its finally your turn to get help, there is always alot of red tape that you have to go through just to be helped. I have seen this done too many times before.

Also. The fact with the immigrants. It was mentioned before. I really think that if they are so suprior, then they should at least make sure that the border is secure, so that immigrants don't come over here and overcrowd the place. Not only that, but they are alowing them to come over, so that they can pay them less money then the people who have actuallt gone to school for it. And what dose that result in?! More an more peopl being without jobs.

That is what Orangeman meant when he said, that the U.S should take care of home before they try to handle other peoples affairs.(I put it in my own words, the meaning is the same.) I'm not against the us, I live here. But I don't think it is the best, out of all the faulty governmemts. I think it is in the same boat.

judes

10-09-2006, 07:22 AM

whoa okay.
i'm the mod stepping in here.
i thought the discussion was fine as long as you guys stayed away from the age thing, which you have, but i come back several hours later to see a big bitch fest.

cowboy is right, kendo, sugar&spice, both of you are off topic, so get back on topic. restrain yourselves please, he's right in stating that so don't tell him that if you don't like it don't read it because if you're going to do an one on one argument about something that's not related to the thread, take it to PMs, nobody wants to read your conversation.

the posts not related to the thread are deleted.
and from this point on, off topic posts will be deleted without warning.

edit: and if you guys really can't keep this debate going without it flying off into insults or arguments or whatever, the thread will be closed.

if any of you have a problem with what i did, PM me and i'll hear you out.

KendoTiger

10-10-2006, 04:07 AM

Um, Judes, could you send me those posts in an email? I actually liked my arguing ._."; besides, it show's Orangeman exactly what a bash looks like - so he won't get upset in the future by what stuff like cowboy said.

Anyways, on immigrants - they are actual essential to the economy. They are willing to take jobs that naturalized citizens won't take, and contribute greatly to the migrant population of farm workers (especially in the South West). Despite the billions spent on "non-citizens", the work they do brings triple* the amount back in the form of revenue.

*might be changed later - I need to verify with sources first.

I don't understand your argument that immigration limits citizen's job opportunities - I'm in Macro Economics, and it simply isn't true. Sources in a bit.

shinjay

10-11-2006, 12:45 PM

Hrm..America..first they got high technology.. most of the high tech things made by them..example: satelite, computer chip, and etc. Next how they can invend all these kind of things..of course they need human to create it. So American company buy genious employee from all the world!

Now..why all the employee willing to work there..of course they will have good salary and others benifit.

America is number one in military..why? They have high technology... well how would I know what machine they have haha.
Again why they can beat Russian and be the number 1 this is because they like to follow what Russia do! Russia put a satelite up and then America quickly put a satelite up..thus they have patient and improvement.

KendoTiger

10-17-2006, 09:03 AM

orangeman

10-17-2006, 09:58 AM

You know what I never got? Why everyone assumes people from America think they're "number 1". I mean - almost everyone favors their home country the best, so why make a distinction and say that only American people think this way?
Yes, I know everyone agreed this happens, but this is a thread specifically relating to America. Well, why the hell don't you call it as such? Please rename the thread "let's bash america - it sucks, and we've never lived there".
Pif.

People can generalize, and do genralize about America. They get information from the news, word of mouth, even history. Even Americans would think this way. I think the American society likes to brag and compete. I went to China, and rarely anyone said they like China or anything in that sorts. Americans consider everyone else #2 or below. America is #1, irregardless of any fact or opinion.

The topic title change doesn't make sense for the thread. No one said America sucked directly. A lot of people wrote reasons why America is/isn't #1. They're opinons, and it's cool to see what foreigners think of Americans. They don't need to live here to know how obese people are, or how stupid Bush is.

Blue_December

10-18-2006, 04:54 AM

oh wow this is a question worth talking about, well i will just say my little part and expect to be argued about it but here it goes.

Im from canada and am totally proud to be canadian, I would like to start by saying that I have no problems with america, I am actually thankful for america for the most part because of the security we get from them cause lets face it america is our really first line of defence from attack from any country that decides to attack us and for that im thankful, i mean canada has an army but not as powerful army as america we are more peacekeepers then a military power, more like reserves for america when needed.

Second lets look at america, they are the richest and most powerful at the moment that is very true, and in its own right america is the present "Roman Empire" of todays world. Sure every country has people who are cocky of being who they are and what makes them great in ways, i mean american people has economy and structure, canada has hockey and security, Japan for its fashion, same as France hahaha, and so on. But you know what I mean every country has qualities that differs them from other countries and make there citizens proud of there country, but as well we have things that dont make us all that great too.

I mean US is great in ways and so is other countries, I mean Canada is not sooo great it self for example I recommend to check out www.notcanada.com and it is here you see our flaws.

Lets face it america is number one right now and will be for awhile yet. And it is an Empire like i said before, buts keep in mind that historical fact show that at one point Empires fall and america will be no exception so that leaves to the question who will take the position that america holds now and be the most dominate superpower. well I will start by saying that my theory is that China will be the next superpower in the near future. I mean there economy is rising they have the man power and population for a huge army, they are constantly growing and will continue to grow and soon be the most powerful.

But I think america has the right to be concidered number 1 and has that power to show it and say it. I mean the world be a totally different place if america didnt get involved in WW2 it was basically one because the aid of america thats the total truth.

But hey everybody has its idea on this touchy subject and well keep bring your mind into this question

Thanks everyone and take care all:wave:

Ginuwine

11-11-2006, 01:03 AM

It is true that America is #1 at the moment, it's the richest country, but one thing for sure is that China is moving fowards aswell. America might have the high technology and high funding for their miltary but so does China. It's more on how you determine "#1 or Most Powerful". If you ask a American if their nation is #1 of course they will be bias, it's not a matter of bragging they are just have pride towards their nation. You cant hate people for that. I believe that America isn't the same as the mighty Roman Empire or the Ancient Egyptian Empire, the world's civilization is based on those foundations. Personally i don't see the reason for the War in Iraq , they still have not found any evidence of nuclear weapons. Did they start that war just to show how powerful? I'm not sure, but it still hasn't effected terrorism a bit.

Rekki

11-12-2006, 04:36 AM

I guess it is because America is the leading worldpower next to China. And before China, our economy had been the strongest (plus we saved everyone during WWII). Unfortunately, we are starting to see that we aren't going to be number one forever.

chaNK

12-18-2006, 11:29 AM

we are number one.. because we can get away with anything we want..
AMERICA is the world's legal bullies... we can do anything we want and get away with it.. simple as that.. and if anyone poses as a threat.. america will handle them with force.. it's simple.. US can get away with anything they want.. and if someone were to speak up against it.. they would be prosecuted.. i know its harsh.. but its the truth.. but hey.. dont take my word for it.. just look at all the actions we've handled.. why do you think our international relations arent doing so well..

CetniK

01-02-2007, 06:33 AM

I'm from Serbia, but I live in America now. I don't like the arrogance here. People are too full of themselves. Sometimes I think "American pride" means arrogance.

khmerchef

01-04-2007, 12:15 PM

Because we are! Just kidding.

I'm Asian, and my American friends consider me to be very Asian, and very un-American like...except my opinions on women's equality.

But, this question is a toughie!
I think it's because of all the accomplishments that America has done in history. I mean, we are the closest to what a true capitalist government is. And I think that the patriotism in this country is "hellbound". There is something known as the "American Dream" that brings people all over the world to make a fresh start here, and maybe this "Dream" has gotten many people arrogant to make them think that they are the best, that they are so worthy of others to want to be there.

As for having the best hi-tech equipment/technology. I don't think we have it. I think Japan's techwares makes American electronics seem like rinky dinky antiques.

I'm not bashing my own country. But, let's face it, the way this country approaches things is not the best. Before, We were the one to revolutionize technology, and a democratic government. But, nowadays, others countries are coming up. And like the old saying goes "You can't be the best at everything". If we were best, there's always someone better. Take the dollar value for example for currency exchange. The American dollar WAS the most valued. But now, it's the Euro....that just proves that you can't stay on top forever.

Which just proves how vital world peace is, no matter how cliche that sounds. Sure, competitions among countries are good. Because it pushes us to be better and stronger. But, if insults fly and wars breakout. It wouldn't matter who's #1 or #20. Everything will end in chaos. Everything is so intricately woven and intertwined in the world's economy. It would be pretty hard for one to survive without the other....unless, they're really really rich.

star_light

01-05-2007, 07:36 PM

They're arrogant. They think that what they do is the best and they are often so full of themselves that they're blinded by it, and they can't see their faults. They think that they can get away with anything they want with force. and that just ruins the world peace. which khmerchef had just said it is very important. American's are all about bringing world peace and all that but i think that's all crap. They're actually the troublemakers. This is only my opinion, you guys can think anything that you want. Have Fun debating! :-)

kliu117

01-11-2007, 01:52 AM

chineseguyjl

01-11-2007, 02:35 AM

Personally, I think America is getting way over their heads, they think they're like the leader of the planet earth or something. Screw them. Experts predict that China will surpass America in less than 50 years, So take you S.O.B country!
i dunno i doubt that will happen. do you have any evidence that might happen? and can u please show me these "experts"

i mean America is so far ahead of China. China even abandoned their communism roots to capitalism. Even then, China at the moment in parts of the country are still developing.

la0zxb0ixx

01-12-2007, 12:18 AM

chineseguyjl

01-12-2007, 05:11 AM

even though im a asian livin in america, i hate it here..people are too full of themselves and have that "america is the only country in the world" attitude,its so annoying because i think that all the other countries are better then us ,becuase america really has no history or anything unique about it..its just like, if you wanna get away from your country ..come here place..yea america is not all that
are you serious? that is absurd, theres no hard evidence that america isnt the best overall.

" i think that all the other countries are better then us"

ok americal dominates in almost every aspect against every country. Politically America's democracy and capitalism has proven to be the most successful. Probably the reason most countries switch away from socialism and communism to a better political form, ex. china. Economically the US dollar values more than any other currency, and america is still has the highest GDP. War, america is well able to fight two major wars at the same time. just by numbers without considering the geographical factor.

"america really has no history or anything unique about it"

thats what makes us unique, america is able to rise to the most powerful nation in the world in this short time. Americans are more selfish than self-interest, while other countries like russia depend on socialism and want everyone on equal levels. (not talking about rights). capitalism leads to competition. competition means quality and cheaper prices.

"america is not all that"

partially true. but still america is better than every other country. look at mexico and the california border, everywhere u look in socal u see illegal immigrants. america has the best government which provides the basic rights to all people (doesnt say citizen) that includes illegals. jobs waiting, cheap labor which means lower prices on everything. the american way, nothing is good enough.

orangeman

01-13-2007, 07:14 PM

" i think that all the other countries are better then us"
ok americal dominates in almost every aspect against every country. Politically America's democracy and capitalism has proven to be the most successful. Probably the reason most countries switch away from socialism and communism to a better political form, ex. china. Economically the US dollar values more than any other currency, and america is still has the highest GDP. War, america is well able to fight two major wars at the same time. just by numbers without considering the geographical factor.

Isn't the American dollar losing its value? The thing I hate about America is that "spreading peace through force". Somehow, we have to involve ourselves in every country and fight wars. Currently, we're in Iraq, making us in a very deep hole of debt. We can fight as many wars as we want, but that money has to be repaid somehow.

"america really has no history or anything unique about it"
thats what makes us unique, america is able to rise to the most powerful nation in the world in this short time. Americans are more selfish than self-interest, while other countries like russia depend on socialism and want everyone on equal levels. (not talking about rights). capitalism leads to competition. competition means quality and cheaper prices.
I can't argue much on this. America does offer freedom. But last year, two laws passed made me rethink what "freedom" is to this country.

"america is not all that"
partially true. but still america is better than every other country. look at mexico and the california border, everywhere u look in socal u see illegal immigrants. america has the best government which provides the basic rights to all people (doesnt say citizen) that includes illegals. jobs waiting, cheap labor which means lower prices on everything. the american way, nothing is good enough.
I don't think the US better than any other country, but I can't say it isn't. America provided that "opportunity for a better life", which many people want. If la0zxboixx thinks America sucks, it's his view then. You have to see a world view, because not many countries praise the US. But still, it's better than most countries. Opportunity, what immigrants look for.

chineseguyjl

01-13-2007, 07:43 PM

Isn't the American dollar losing its value? The thing I hate about America is that "spreading peace through force". Somehow, we have to involve ourselves in every country and fight wars. Currently, we're in Iraq, making us in a very deep hole of debt. We can fight as many wars as we want, but that money has to be repaid somehow.

I can't argue much on this. America does offer freedom. But last year, two laws passed made me rethink what "freedom" is to this country.

I don't think the US better than any other country, but I can't say it isn't. America provided that "opportunity for a better life", which many people want. If la0zxboixx thinks America sucks, it's his view then. You have to see a world view, because not many countries praise the US. But still, it's better than most countries. Opportunity, what immigrants look for.

Isn't the American dollar losing its value? The thing I hate about America is that "spreading peace through force". Somehow, we have to involve ourselves in every country and fight wars. Currently, we're in Iraq, making us in a very deep hole of debt. We can fight as many wars as we want, but that money has to be repaid somehow.

Very true. the american dollar is losing its value through war, but even with this stupid war the value of the dollar is still high. that is why everything is based on the dollar, the only thing close to the dollar is the euro. "spreading peace through force" isnt actually peace. its actually more for america, it needs other countries support to keep america running especially import/exports.

I can't argue much on this. America does offer freedom. But last year, two laws passed made me rethink what "freedom" is to this country.

how i see it is our rights get limited every year. the first 3 that i can think of is the banishment of every language except for English in the state of Arizona, that only includes government properties. The mexican border is right there and now schools, driving license tests, working forms all have to be in english. bad place for immigrants. and then theres the no abortion policy in south dakota supported by the conservatives. limits the rights every year. and last theres the gay marriage thing. i personally oppose gay marriage but it takes away the rights of those who are gay. i believe that two people of the same sex share an income, but i disagree with it in a religious aspect.

I don't think the US better than any other country, but I can't say it isn't. America provided that "opportunity for a better life", which many people want. If la0zxboixx thinks America sucks, it's his view then. You have to see a world view, because not many countries praise the US. But still, it's better than most countries. Opportunity, what immigrants look for.

yea... in a way i agree. but Sealand is a hell of a country. smallest country on earth, 10 people population. and u can buy titles online. bet they dont think america is the best

bawkbawkchicken

01-14-2007, 02:35 AM

chineseguyjl

01-14-2007, 02:26 PM

America is number one because it is an unique melting pot.
It is a unique land come upon by chance, and there is no other place like it left in the world world. People discovered it at the most opportune moment of need, and since its discovery the prophecy of greatness has been naturally etched into its roots.
While Europe and Asia bickered and haggled :rasp: and depleted their resources, America was an isolated outlet, rich with land and resources. She exemplified hope and rebirth. Thousands flocked to America, thousands with skills and cultures and languages unique to their own kind, bringing to the new land new knowledge and identity. Thousands from Russia, France, England, China, Japan, Germany, Italy, Spain.....all of the seekers of promise left their depleted and wasted homelands to contribute to one of most phenomenal empires of the world - America.
It was all like a race. Europe and Asia were the starting point, and America was the distant finishline. Thousands failed somewhere in the middle, whether it was the hardships of arriving to the New Land, or the disparaging days spent at Ellis or Angel Island. Thousands lost their hopes and dreams to failure and hardship, because they lacked skills and character that American seeked contributions for in return for accomodation. The myriad of successful racers succeeded to embark on a new journey glistening with hope and opportunity because they had the skill to be able to embark.
America is number one because it is not like any other country. America does not have a literal ethnicity. Americans are Chinese, Russian, French, German, Hungarian, Australian, Japanese, Korean, Mexican, or any mixture of any. American's are americans because they are united with diligence, skill, competence, and believe in the manifestation of the American Dream. Blood and cultural heritage, or lack there of, are not major components.
self contradictory. your extended metaphor is confusing. ok so europe and asia raced to gain america right? but u said they discovered it by chance. and most of the immigrants that moved to early america because they didnt want to be drafted, and plus traveling to america wasnt safe u risked ur life. america wasnt a great power until the the 1900s, the only reason we won the american revolution was because we had help from the french. if u are refering to the most phenomenal empires of the world - America, thats probably still not today. i doubt immigrants come to america for the purpose of bettering america, most likely it is for themselves (self-interest). even in the 1800s, the irish was used, the chinese were blown up after they were used. also, do you really think america is united?

p.s. i love your use of adjectives.

zhy378

01-15-2007, 09:18 PM

wow this thread is still going for almost two years now. i just thought i put in a little aspect i learned from my asian american class reading.

is it america so influential that it influence the african race and others? For example, there's some black africans in africa thinking that America is so free because we have very famous black celebrities like Halle Berry, Denzel Washington winning an oscar. Also, top 40 music artists like P. diddy, Snoop Dog, Mariah Carey, Destiny's Child etc showing people outside the world America is 'freedom' for diversity when in truth america is still struggling with its own discrimination. how some africans thinking "wow thats cool how music are sang-rapped by black people, teenagers *cough* white boys trying to be 'black' so they can be cool-meaning being black in america is really cool, a country ruled by "black-ghettoization" "

what im trying to say, this can apply to any other races, soon it will be Latinos-Mexicans-Chicanos, then Asians and Pacific Islanders. sure it is already happening now with all races, but it is only the beginning. When an asian become the first american idol or have the top song in america on its playlist, asians out of america will think "wow, maybe america isnt so racist as some people say." but really, those asians succeeding are only the rare ones. I would say black, latino or mexican , asian being president of america, but that is going to be a long shot and by then, maybe america wont be the same as it is. maybe by then, we can really be number #1 for diversity and land of equality.

while America can be consider as #1 right now but in truth American can be #-1 . America is just number one for making people to believe we're number one.

judes

01-25-2007, 02:41 AM

let's not use words like "american's are dicks" or anything along those lines.
this is a debate forum, not the free for all forum.

the topic at hand is the perception of americans and whether there is truth to the claim that "they are number one".

KendoTiger

02-01-2007, 07:51 PM

Well, due to economic and political policy, American (up to the mid/late 1970s) held a fairly ethnocentric view (ie - "the rest of the world should conform to us"). Unfortunately, this has contributed to the view of the "ugly American tourist", and general sentiment that Americans are "rude, selfish, and arrogant".

This, in tangent with our sizable economic clout (5% of the World's Population accounts for over a third of total GDP*1), has led to a majority of the world viewing America in a negative, if not hateful, way.

Economically, American-incorportated businesses have been altering their practices to more effectively include target audiences in other countries. Such examples include France, in which wine/beer is served at McDonald's (as alcohol is viewed as an essential/familiar part of any meal). I believe that in some countries, in-door smoking is also acceptible. This increases revenue, while at the same time, integrating the business towards a more multi-ethnic standpoint.

Although this does help to diminish anti-Americanism (at least in areas of high-trade or strong business-relationships), it still has a long way to go. Internationally-reaching political decisions (such as the Iraq War), further discourage pro-American sentiment, as it portrays the US as an "aggressor"(sp). By far, the worst possible contributor are the thousands of American tourists, many of them young-adults, fail to adapt to a new culture and insist on maintaining a "this is wrong, it should be like America" view (even worse if they express it by insulting the culture they are visiting).

As it has been said, America is currently one of the most influential nations; as well as one of the richest and most powerful (economic, military, etc), there will be those who fear it and therefore hate it (and the American People) by default. Unfortunately, there is little we can do other than offer aid and try to improve relations - time is the biggest discerning factor. Well, I guess we'd be viewed favorably if another Hitler came around, and we turn the tide of the war (I do not want to argue that Bush is the next Hitler... don't try it -o-").

It is natural to have a nationalistic feeling towards your home country, but it should never interfere with your view of other countries. In this world, people are people, and should be treated with respect, regardless of situation. It would help if more people could realize that.

*1. Might have to check if it was GDP or WMS.

Gelloy

04-10-2007, 04:41 AM

maybe it'z because :
1. They got NASA, the only one country that can cruise the space
2. They have the most smart, powerful also inteligent agency such as FBI, CSI and SWAT.
3. the biggest military power
4. High tech user

5uon

04-10-2007, 05:55 AM

america thinks its the most prosperous country on account of the freedom
we think our system entitles us to a perfect powerful country when really we arent
you can also tell that we often think we are the overseers of the other countries becuase we meddle with alot of other affairs (for example the Monroe Doctrine)
america overshadows other great countries and makes all the rest seem dirt poor

FSUTan

04-19-2007, 12:31 PM

ethnocentrism..is that the world? where you think you're country is the best? well i think america thinks that way because sometimes, a lot of other countires puts america on a pedistial. to me, i think america is great and all, but every country has it's good and bad...for example..we got bush...LOL.../end of my discussion =)

yayableu

04-22-2007, 12:59 AM

Economically, we're actually absolutely great. No matter how horrible our stock market is doing. We've been known to be number one since forever. We've got the longest standing constitution and other constitutions are modeled after ours.
They believe we are number one only because of how we run. We do extremely well in almost all categories. Even the weight category. We're way up there. LOL.
We're a country with a system that works. Our economics, government, teaching, states, break up, build up...it just works.
Or so we think. XD Who knows? With our president........ehehehehehehe...

^^ wow!
you know your history.

i agree. our consitution is the longest working one. you said what i wanted to say.

i mean... many foreigners think bad of america, but remember, not all americans are arrogant.

lazyazn5318

04-24-2007, 01:50 AM

dh144498

07-11-2007, 04:34 AM

politics... well America IS currently number UNO in terms of military. but if other nations boycott the U.S., then the U.S. is not going to survive for long. but China's catching up REALLY fast. I'm proud.

chineseguyjl

08-18-2007, 07:15 AM

Pride cometh before the fall....
You know, I think that at a certain point we don't necessarily have the right to think we're the best, but I guess I can see why people do have that point of view. I mean, we do have a outstanding economy and model of government. Our world influence is pretty much unmatched and the list can go on and on, but I think we've become complacent on our little pedastal. Other nations are quickly progressing. I predict the United States will not be number 1 for long. But, I do feel that we'll be a super power for a looooooong time.

ahhh cheezy philosophy. "pride before the fall" isnt the same today as it was in medieval times. u saying u support the game of chicken?

besides that.... you said " we dont necessarily have the right to think we're the best" why dont we have the right to think we're the best? the first amendment says we can say what ever we want. remember "freedom of speech" which entitles us to say whatever the f**k we want.

and what do you mean by "outstanding" economy? i mean the only outstanding part i see is that our living standards are higher and we make the most. but our economy is comprised of illegal activities such as drugs, and border hoppers that we take advantage of. if thats the case then we dont care how we get the money as long as we are the best? the growth rate isnt that high either, its constant but the prize to the biggest rise goes to hong kong open market.

and an outstanding model of government? I SO FRIGGIN AGREE. screw those commi bastards.

also what makes you think that the US wont be #1 for long? just because china is growing rapidly?

dh144498

09-23-2007, 04:17 AM

"seaweedpatchkid", i have to correct you in something. speaking from a non-biased point of view (even though im chinese), China has a better economy than the U.S. and it's getting better and better by the second.

economically speaking, the U.S. is behind China.
in terms of military, the U.S. might still be #1.

China's catching up to the U.S. very quickly. In less than 2 decades China's going to pop up as the superpower (assuming that the past trend doesnt change).

orangeman

09-27-2007, 11:36 AM

A few decades ago, America was #1 by a margin. Now, the US Dollar is weaker than the Canadian. My generation is pretty much spoiled, in a sense of thought that everything is supposed to be given to us. The "greatest generation" built that "America, the best damn place in the world", and now it's just collapsing.

America is slowly rotting away because my generation lets it. No more real protests like in the 1970s, now it's internet bulletins and forums. I really haven't met anyone willing to die for their rights. Nor defend the country in the "war for oil". The "greatest generation" fought the Nazis, Japan, Vietnam, and got out of the Great Depression. Baby boomers even contributed to something. My generation has everything handed down, and it's a chain that'll keep on going. What happened in my generation? 9/11, Iraq War, things that just harmed US citizens more than benefit.

China is rising fast, same as India, Dubai, etc. All these foreign lands were literally nothing a decade ago. Now look at them. China will be a superpower in a few decades, which would be retirement time for many users here. India is like the brother/sister to America, helping us fix computers and teach math even. Check out the photos of Dubai. It's amazing how much has been accomplished in a few years.

Compare our constitutional republic with the communist party, and of course America looks better. But is it that much better? I don't think so, because the US government is paranoid of its citizens, and vice versa. Is that better than communism? Maybe, because we have the bill of rights, but even those can be taken away.

I don't hate America, but in real standards, it's not #1 anymore. I faced the reality of current affairs. America is getting worse, day by day.

palehorsesailor

10-06-2007, 06:00 PM

Just my two cents.

One thing I've noticed about American culture is the (don't take this the wrong way) ingrained hypocrisy which I feel might be a logical progression of Puritan values. I saw a photograph in the news quite some time back which illustrates perfectly the American 'philosophy'. A group of coal miners were trapped in a mine somewhere and the photograph was of a bunch of people waving protest signs about... something about the coal mines, maybe about how unsafe they were or something like that. I can't really remember but it really tickled me that there was such a huge gulf between what was really happening - the miners trapped - and what people were doing - protesting against... something, instead of helping the miners. It's like how they blamed Marilyn Manson for the Columbine shootings. American media, in fact, possibly America as a whole, seem obsessed with creating a facade of 'purity' (good vs evil) and maintaining their innocence just to divert attention from the issue at hand. It's like hypocrisy is a kind of a national defense mechanism.

Bear in mind, I'm not referring to ALL Americans when I write this - there are, of course, plenty of exceptions and some of my friends are American.

tc9.jay

11-11-2007, 05:49 PM

I think it's ignorance on the part of the Americans.

They're too wrapped up in their ownselves and it's not surprising because while America may not be #1 but they are one of the most powerful and influential countries in the world. I mean, why do you think 911 had such a devastating effect on the country? Because the average citizen had absolutely no idea how much (a part of) the outside world hates them. Even though I am probably digressing here but the day after 911 happened, my Chinese teacher who's from Mainland China made a comment that was just O_O. He actually laughed and said that it served them right. While I don't and cannot agree with such a comment, thousands of people die in other horrible wars and acts of terror but 911 was such a big event in history. And after 911 happened, America went to Afganistan and then to Iraq. While I'm not sure about Afganistan, more than 3000 american soldiers have died in Iraq, surpassing the number of casualties during 911 but no one talks about that, much less the number of Iraqi civilians who died. Why is it that when an attack happens on American soil, there's a huge hooha and all but not when America is doing the attack elsewhere?

The average American on the street is filled with too much arrogance and is too self-absorbed to notice what's going on with the rest of the world, nor can he care less. But this is because they are a powerful state. And this is why in my opinion, Americans think that they are #1.

dh144498

11-14-2007, 01:32 AM

actually the number of deaths in Iraq is a HUGE deal here. that's part of why bush's popularity went down dramatically.

even though i restrain from saying that 9/11 served the U.S. right, it did act as a wake up call to the Americans that showed how ignorant they are.

ask4more_jay

11-14-2007, 01:57 AM

HAHAHAHA they think they're number one?
thats actually soo freakin true!
well too bad for them then
cuz they shouldn't be so self-centred.
LOOK AT THE WORLD.
and oh guess what else?
the canadian dollar is going up! yipee!

aznkukuboi

12-18-2007, 01:10 PM

chineseguyjl

12-30-2007, 05:39 PM

America is not number one by any standard. Politics is basically confined to who's got the most money or power. Why aren't our troops in Iraq getting the best equipment (Dragonskin)? Because of politics. And why are we still using M4 carbine, when it has been proven to be an outdated weapon compared to H&K? (Go Germans!) Politics. However, I believe the freedom to purchase and own a firearm should never have been allowed in the first place. Why are we in debt $9 trillion dollars? This accounts to about $30,000 in debt per person living in the United States. This I don't know. The British Pound is worth twice as much as the American dollar. I expect more tourist here in the next coming decade.
While I do consider myself American, I still think Americans are pretentious and prideful when it comes to world views. When you go to outside countries, you will hear a stereotype that Americans are fat and lazy. (We are fat and we tend to drive automatics.) I laugh when I hear this because I think it's quite true. We are the world's fattest nation. What's the statistic? 3 out of 5 Americans are overweight? I think this will result in a lowering of the "overweight" standard and make Americans feel better. (just kidding) One comedian made a joke about lowering standards to make kids seem smarter. I think this has been done before too.
When someone asks me if I think our population, as a whole, is getting smarter by the generation, I reply no. On the contrary, we are getting more polarized. The smart are getting smarter and the vice versa. Don't get me started on the ethnicities in American compared to other countries. I could go on forever. The American school system only requires you to know up to Algebra I to have high school efficiency. My friend failed this class actually and passed senior year. This is ridiculous. My father was taught this subject long before even hitting high school. I, in fact, took calculus in the 10th grade. The fact that Algebra I is the minimal just shows how much our school system needs revamping.
I don't think America is number one. I hate the fact that we cannot buy diesel cars in California. I hate the fact that most anyone has access to a gun. I hate the fact that a president can win without the majority vote. We have such a flawed system.
Sorry I ranted so long. I hate being an 'American.'

Alright i agree with everything you said besides the first paragraph. Dragonskin is actually being implemented into the military. Its just not going to approval and all that crap. It has made progress tho, just lazy asses and precautions are stopping it. like FDA with new medicines. I cant believe your putting down the M4 with a SMG MK5 9mm. thats a big difference in power bugh. i dont know much about the H&K but i'll choose the m4 or ak over that anyday.

You said people should not be allowed to own a firearm, why? Im just going to speak a little. If it was banned, its logical to think that people will somehow obtain firearms illegally. Having no self defense and the bad guy locked with a gun. No protection for some. Kinda screwed.

It is true we are in major debt, MAJOR debt., and Bill Gates or any rich bastard can pay for it all. BUT... debt is good according to economic research. you get better things when your in debt. think of it as a loan, you use it to invest in something really... better, like college or renovation to a building. good debt vs bad debt.

You said the Bristish Pound is worth more than the dollar. ok? and? Are you saying Americans are poorer? You do know that the standard of living is different in every state right? I dont know what your trying to prove with the statement.

The algebra thing is really depressing, but schools have to have a 90% pass rate in order to receive money. Stupid Bush. its part of his no body gets left behind plan, where he closes down schools taht dont pass the curve and send the kids to another school. great plan huh? it passed too because dumbasses didnt understand english.

I still think the US is #1, simply because we have california. we should be our own country.

orangeman

12-31-2007, 01:01 PM

EtherealFlash

02-23-2008, 05:27 AM

So it has already been agreed so far that in economy/military/influence fields america is #1 at the moment. It makes sense for america to be caught up in their position, as thats what happens when you dont have too much competition for a while (and thus as we are seeing now other nations/blocs such as the EU and China are gaining prominence relative to the US). It happens all the time in history, the dominant country gets arrogant. It's really nothing special to do with America.

applemac

04-23-2008, 07:46 AM

Well I think most americans are convinced that the US is the best place because that's what they have taught to believe in since they were little.
This topic reminds me of a video I saw on youtube, where a guy (american) discuss why is his country number one...(sarcastically)...it is entertaining because he is american and I think the message he gives is true. If you want to watch it click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh2Rbu3WeAI).

So basically, in the video, he mentions all the number ones big statistics (and he even cites his sources). He questions if America is truly number one.

To give up some of the facts he says (if you don't want to watch the video)
-US has more guns than any other country.
-US has more people in prison. (5 times the population of Luxembourg... haha I found that one funny)
-most citizens are pretty bad in geography. Some of them have never travel abroad. (this guy even put a video of how stupid are americans where they interview people in the US O_o and they some of them thought France was in Australia, triangles have 4 sides, there are 10 eiffel towers, and things like that).
-US is the number 1 arm seller of the world
-They got the world's strongest military
-Most productive (but also more working hours and less vacations than any other)
-Income inequality (difference between rich and poor)
-Personal savings less than zero (last time it was like that: depression, I believe 1929's?)
-US spend more money on health service and care than anyone else, but they are not the healthiest.(35 in the ranking)
-fattest and more surgeries.

As he said, America has everything in terms of quantity but no quality. (i.e. cars, houses).

Regarding why everyone still goes to the US? he says countries like Canada, New Zeland, Australia get much higher than the US immigrants income per capita.

So I think he pretty answers the question.
I think the only ones that think US is the number 1 is the ones [as he says] citizens, that refuse to examine their own country and their weaknesses. So they are just living in a bubble.

P.S: By no means I am saying US is the worst country, I'm not anti-US either (even I chose to study here...). I'm just saying maybe it is not number 1 anymore, but it is still on the top 10 ^^.

orangeman

04-23-2008, 12:03 PM

I dislike the Youtube video, because the poster states, “stupid us usa united states of america intelligent american george bush president dumb”. Yeah, I’m sure that is going to be an objective video. Lowered the credibility.

-US has more guns than any other country.
Second Amendment gives us the right to own guns. I am sure that contributes to high numbers of gun ownership.

-US has more people in prison. (5 times the population of Luxembourg... haha I found that one funny)
301 million people in the US. 500,000 in Luxembourg. About 170,000 in California, which is about 34% of Luxembourg’s population already. In one state. Total somewhere is 1.5 million inmates out of 301 million people. Not very shocking, if you do the percentage, .005%,

-most citizens are pretty bad in geography. Some of them have never travel abroad. (this guy even put a video of how stupid are americans where they interview people in the US O_o and they some of them thought France was in Australia, triangles have 4 sides, there are 10 eiffel towers, and things like that).
I can pick certain people, edit the video, and prove the same point. French, English, Irish, etc.

-US is the number 1 arm seller of the world
Reinforces the next point made.
-They got the world's strongest military
Spends the most. Almost more than the rest of the world combined.

-Most productive (but also more working hours and less vacations than any other)
I think before outsourcing and the demand for cheap labor, yes, workers were productive and happy. Now, it’s gone downhill.

-Income inequality (difference between rich and poor)
Compare the bottom and top of other countries and you’ll end up with similar figures. America has great social mobility. Be poor today, rich tomorrow. Change can occur that fast. Look at China. Super-rich next door, poverty a few blocks down the street. Basically set for life like that.

-Personal savings less than zero (last time it was like that: depression, I believe 1929's?)
Americans are consumers. Credit, debt, loans, etc. Is this commenting on consumerism/materialism?

-US spend more money on health service and care than anyone else, but they are not the healthiest.(35 in the ranking)
-fattest and more surgeries.
Well, it’s Americans. That’s given. I associated “Americans” with “McDonalds”, “diabetes”, and “overweight”. A personal view on life here in the States.

As he said, America has everything in terms of quantity but no quality. (i.e. cars, houses).
Quality of life is good. A good standard of living that’s affordable to every class. Americans drive BMWs, Ferraris, as well as Fords and Cadillacs. Live in trailers as well as mansions. Don’t understand what “quality” criticizes.

Regarding why everyone still goes to the US? he says countries like Canada, New Zeland, Australia get much higher than the US immigrants income per capita.
American immigrants are slightly different. Many come in illegally. You don’t expect an illegal immigrant to earn $40,000, do you? The money isn’t a big deal, but a chance to succeed is. To become rich or be better than they were. Start a new life that’s promising.

I think the only ones that think US is the number 1 is the ones [as he says] citizens, that refuse to examine their own country and their weaknesses. So they are just living in a bubble.
I don’t think America is #1. But if you asked me to live anywhere in the world, it’d be the US. There’s a reason why many people still want to come here over all the other countries. I personally believe the old phrase saying America is “the land of opportunity”. Are we really living in a bubble? Is there any other place filled with such diversity and culture? Sure, other countries have their culture and diversity, but it’s confined to their borders. America has always blended together whatever was thrown in the pot.

Number one? Depends on the person. But as I said before, there’s a reason people want to come to America. Maybe it’s because of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”?

Note: My usage of the word “you” isn’t directed at anyone. Rhetorical.

hobielover

04-23-2008, 01:14 PM

-most citizens are pretty bad in geography. Some of them have never travel abroad. (this guy even put a video of how stupid are americans where they interview people in the US O_o and they some of them thought France was in Australia, triangles have 4 sides, there are 10 eiffel towers, and things like that).
I can pick certain people, edit the video, and prove the same point. French, English, Irish, etc.
I disagree. My own mom thought that the Great Wall was to keep out the Japanese (and Japan is, of course, an island to the East, not part of the continent to the North, so that's useless). A lot of Americans are really bad at geography, and I only know from my foreign language studies and the fact that I keep a globe next to my bed.

I grew up here, and I've never been outside of the country, so I really can't compare it to any other country. I think, though, that a lot of people who say that America is number 1 haven't been outside of country either. Probably because they couldn't possibly learn a language other than English because they are too proud, and they can't find their way around another country because of their bad sense of direction.

applemac

04-23-2008, 03:53 PM

I think, though, that a lot of people who say that America is number 1 haven't been outside of country either.

Uhmm I think that's a good point now that you mentioned it, most americans have never travel abroad and most of their judgment is based on what they see/read on the media.

Regarding the citizens not knowing geography, uhmm they really don't know, I did it myself because I couldn't believe what I saw on the video :oops: and most of them where college students, and I asked them how could that be possible, and they told me they didn't teach that in high school :glug:

And orangeman I think I kinda agree and disagree with you: I personally believe the old phrase saying America is “the land of opportunity”. Are we really living in a bubble? Is there any other place filled with such diversity and culture? Sure, other countries have their culture and diversity, but it’s confined to their borders. America has always blended together whatever was thrown in the pot.

Yes there is another place filled with diversity and culture, and not by their borders. Take for example most countries in Europe. You don't need a "visa" for each country, you apply for (I forgot the name of the card) and you can travel between countries inexpensively without having to apply for a visa each time you want to go. And the fact that they all shared the same monetary makes it easier. But hey, that is how I think as an outsider that has come here...american people don't need a visa for most countries, you guys are so lucky u.u. Anyways, back to context, there are countries are as much diverse as America, people also immigrate there. However, I do agree that maybe the video is not objective, but I think his point was to make you think (im not pointing at you, orangeman :oops:) and get you out of the "bubble". And yes, America is a land of opportunities but it is not that great as they describe it or some people think it is. You have to work no matter country you are living, the reason why immigrants leave their countries (I believe) is because they are looking something better than their own country.

hobielover

04-23-2008, 04:14 PM

I didn't even watch the video, LOL, but I know from experience that most people here don't even know where Taiwan is, and they think that people speak Thai there. I guess they don't realize that there's an H in "Thai" but not in "Tai." Americans learn more European geography, I think, than South American, Asian, or African. They do teach this stuff in middle school, but not so much in high school, unless you take a course in geography. You don't have to learn it in college, either. High schools teach more history than geography, and they kind of expect you to know where everything is on your own, which most people don't. I don't think anyone took 7th grade social studies very seriously, which is the only class in which I remember learning Asian/African/Australian geography. College students won't remember that stuff. People with families definitely won't remember. You have to go out of your way to get this information, and most people don't want to.

Yeah, people here take the media way too seriously. We rely on it to know the weather, and we get mad at the meteorologists when they mess up.

People are also in debt up to their eyeballs. There are classes to prevent that, but only in community colleges. People are free economically, meaning they can get themselves into as much debt as they want. There isn't anyone telling them otherwise, so they use their credit cards constantly and don't try to keep their balances to 0. They have that much freedom. If that doesn't make the United States economy number one, I don't know what does.

orangeman

04-24-2008, 02:13 AM

I disagree. My own mom thought that the Great Wall was to keep out the Japanese (and Japan is, of course, an island to the East, not part of the continent to the North, so that's useless). A lot of Americans are really bad at geography, and I only know from my foreign language studies and the fact that I keep a globe next to my bed.

I grew up here, and I've never been outside of the country, so I really can't compare it to any other country. I think, though, that a lot of people who say that America is number 1 haven't been outside of country either. Probably because they couldn't possibly learn a language other than English because they are too proud, and they can't find their way around another country because of their bad sense of direction.

Americans don't learn anything else, because many believe America to be the center of the world. And I guess since English is fairly common worldwide, there's np reason to. But there's foreign languages offered and geography (not really offered in higher education unless studying for specific areas). These aren't very important things to know, and doesn't make a person or nation smarter or stupider. I back my country up.

Yes there is another place filled with diversity and culture, and not by their borders. Take for example most countries in Europe. You don't need a "visa" for each country, you apply for (I forgot the name of the card) and you can travel between countries inexpensively without having to apply for a visa each time you want to go. And the fact that they all shared the same monetary makes it easier. But hey, that is how I think as an outsider that has come here...american people don't need a visa for most countries, you guys are so lucky u.u. Anyways, back to context, there are countries are as much diverse as America, people also immigrate there. However, I do agree that maybe the video is not objective, but I think his point was to make you think (im not pointing at you, orangeman ) and get you out of the "bubble". And yes, America is a land of opportunities but it is not that great as they describe it or some people think it is. You have to work no matter country you are living, the reason why immigrants leave their countries (I believe) is because they are looking something better than their own country.

Being in the European Union, I wouldnt think you'd need a Visa to travel around. America is in a bubble, but same as the rest of the world.

There is diversity and culture in foreign countries, but it's still mainly the English/French/German/etc culture. You have to follow their ways of living or feel slightly isolated. Yes, I think their culture is still restricted by borders, on a deeper interpretation. America forged all these different cultures together to create something that isn't too foreign for anyone. There is a lot of personal freedom to choose to live one's own life or follow anothers. Choose to assimilate into American culture or not, it doesn't make much of an impact. In the end, one is still American. It applies to the foreign places too, but I suspect there's not much of a personal choice whether or not to be part of the culture.

This topic depends on how you percieve America to be. There's crime, poverty, prostitution, drugs, just like any other country. That's reality. But those things are a small risk for many immigrants who want to live in a better place. America provides opportunity, or at least some guaranteed support with the welfare system. Enough to get started. Why aren't immigrants flocking to France, with its better healthcare and welfare system? Or England or Spain?

I'd like to know why people still insist on coming here if it's so bad. And why Americans who hate living here continue to live here. There's free will, and the choice to easily leave. No one is forcing anyone to come or stay. There is a reason hidden from view.

Edit: I'm been too narrow-minded. Would any of you mind giving me an image of daily ____(insert country of origin) life? I think to fairly address the question, I need some personal first-hand experiences.

HangPHAMee

04-29-2008, 04:07 AM

So you're asking why Americans think they're the best? o_O Well, I don't really think it's just Americans, specifically, I think it depends on each individual's pride in their country and themselves.

applemac

04-29-2008, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Orangeman
Americans don't learn anything else, because many believe America to be the center of the world. And I guess since English is fairly common worldwide, there's np reason to. But there's foreign languages offered and geography (not really offered in higher education unless studying for specific areas). These aren't very important things to know, and doesn't make a person or nation smarter or stupider. I back my country up.

But isn't that what we are questioning in this thread? that maybe America is not the center of the world anymore? And if it still is...I don't think 'being the center of the world' means there is no reason to learn and be aware of other's countries and cultures. I do think geography is important because even if America is the "center of the world" it doesn't mean the REST of the world is less important or doesn't deserve to be acknowledge. Ignorance is the worst thing for me, and I would never support that. That is why I do think it is important. Furthermore, it is true that English is the common language worldwide, however languages such as chinese and spanish are expanding, and even in America, it is always better to be bilingual, specially if you want to get a job. I don't think I need to explain why. It is kinda obvious.

Being in the European Union, I wouldnt think you'd need a Visa to travel around. America is in a bubble, but same as the rest of the world. Again, not THE REST OF THE WORLD have the same benefits. And yes, as I said, America is in a bubble, and if the "rest of the world" is also in a bubble...well then WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING. Americans admit they are in a bubble, but they don't care because they are number 1 right? They don't do nothing about it, and yeah, maybe America is not the only country, but it definitely is one of them and a big one. I do think they should get out of the bubble because they have the power to do so and be better.

There is diversity and culture in foreign countries, but it's still mainly the English/French/German/etc culture. You have to follow their ways of living or feel slightly isolated. Yes, I think their culture is still restricted by borders, on a deeper interpretation. America forged all these different cultures together to create something that isn't too foreign for anyone. There is a lot of personal freedom to choose to live one's own life or follow anothers. Choose to assimilate into American culture or not, it doesn't make much of an impact. In the end, one is still American. It applies to the foreign places too, but I suspect there's not much of a personal choice whether or not to be part of the culture.
I'm not sure if I agree with that because nowadays the whole world is globalized. So many races, you never know where are people from anymore, you can't tell that easily and I'm pretty sure America is not the only country. And being from a foreign country, I can assure you that there is personal choice to be part of a culture.

America provides opportunity, or at least some guaranteed support with the welfare system. Enough to get started. Why aren't immigrants flocking to France, with its better healthcare and welfare system? Or England or Spain?

I'd like to know why people still insist on coming here if it's so bad. And why Americans who hate living here continue to live here. There's free will, and the choice to easily leave. No one is forcing anyone to come or stay. There is a reason hidden from view.
I agree that America provides opportunity. My entire family and myself, have proven me that. But let me tell you that there are immigrants that go to UK, Canada and Australia mainly too. Not only America.
I can't tell you why people "insist" on coming here, everyone have their own different reasons. It is not that there is a "hidden" reason, as I said, each person has his/her own reasons. There are so many things to consider when you are leaving your country and choose your next destination such as, how much can you afford because that affects how are you going to get there (plane, bus, train, etc), where are you going to live (relatives, friends, etc); and there are so many other reasons! I believe most people go to America because for the third world countries such as Latin America, Central America and Mexico, it is the closest one to get there, and because of all the propaganda of America being the number 1 country. Other people can afford a little more, so they have the option to choose maybe UK, Austrialia, US,...it doesn't depend on money anymore, but maybe relatives, education (the institution they choose to study) or work.

I'm been too narrow-minded. Would any of you mind giving me an image of daily ____(insert country of origin) life? I think to fairly address the question, I need some personal first-hand experiences.
Well, I can tell you mine. My parents came to Peru after they got married because my grandmother's brother had a company established already there so they both came here to work. A couple of years later, I was born, so I was raised within a chinese family (my grandma was there, and most of my dad's family). That is how, I ended up speaking both languages because I learned spanish from school and chinese from home and family events... I went to a chinese-peruvian school, but then I changed high school at the age of 15 to a british school. That's where I basically learned my english. At the age of 17 I graduated from high school and I decided to come here (US) to study Graphic Arts because Education in Peru unfortunately SUCKS, and having "asian parents", money is a big issue. So I came here to the US, and my first semester at college was a whole process of adaptation: weather, big city AND PEOPLE. I can't explained to you how different are some (I don't want to generalize of course) Americans from others. When I am in class, there are two big groups. Americans and International Students. It is not that we don't speak to each other, the thing is that we don't hang out or try to get to know each other out of class hours. On the other hand, all the international students hang out together, koreans, russians, french, peruvian, chinese, etc; and me, living in the dorms, where everyone (at least on my floor) ARE americans, let me tell you that GIRLS really don't know ANYTHING ELSE apart from ENTERTAINMENT AND GUYS. It is not that I "hate" them, I do get along with a couple of them, including my roommate (who is from Long Island), but the type of conversations I have w/ them are completely different from my other friends. And it is not just "difference of culture" because I'm not referring to my "Peruvian friends", I'm talking about all the french, russian, korean, chinese ppl I've met here.

Finally, I just want to make sure and make it clear that I'm not trying to attack or blame you, or I am not anti-Americans. I like being here, nobody is telling me that life is easy. What I'm trying to prove is that no country is perfect, not even AMERICA). I apologize if I offended somebody, I didn't mean it. And I also apologize for my bad english :$

orangeman

04-29-2008, 10:16 AM

But isn't that what we are questioning in this thread? that maybe America is not the center of the world anymore? And if it still is...I don't think 'being the center of the world' means there is no reason to learn and be aware of other's countries and cultures. I do think geography is important because even if America is the "center of the world" it doesn't mean the REST of the world is less important or doesn't deserve to be acknowledge. Ignorance is the worst thing for me, and I would never support that. That is why I do think it is important. Furthermore, it is true that English is the common language worldwide, however languages such as chinese and spanish are expanding, and even in America, it is always better to be bilingual, specially if you want to get a job. I don't think I need to explain why. It is kinda obvious.

There's some reason why America is still #1, which varies among people. We all value different things in life, so there's no universal answer. It may not be what people percieve it to be anymore.

"Being in the center of the world", people would just assume others come to them. Why would one need to know where Zimbabwe is? Or Israel? I'm trying to speak a general sense. It's not what I believe in, but realistically, knowing where Zanzibar is is useless. Americans do acknowledge the rest of the world, but fail to point out where exactly the Russians or Spanish live. That's just the way history/geography is taught here. A lot of American pride in those textbooks.

Many people around me are bilingual or trilingual. But for the rest of the country, there isn't always that option. English is like the staple language of Western civilization. It's arrogant to only learn English in America and expect the world to follow, but they do. For whatever reason, they do all learn and speak English. So generally speaking, why learn anything else?

Again, not THE REST OF THE WORLD have the same benefits. And yes, as I said, America is in a bubble, and if the "rest of the world" is also in a bubble...well then WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING. Americans admit they are in a bubble, but they don't care because they are number 1 right? They don't do nothing about it, and yeah, maybe America is not the only country, but it definitely is one of them and a big one. I do think they should get out of the bubble because they have the power to do so and be better.

I'd like to see the bubble burst. But I don't know what will happen. It's a barrier, but also a layer of protection. Many Americans don't watch foreign news, the media barely shows foreign news. Too obsessed over entertainment and tabloids. To not see the bubble is to not care to pop it.

I'm not sure if I agree with that because nowadays the whole world is globalized. So many races, you never know where are people from anymore, you can't tell that easily and I'm pretty sure America is not the only country. And being from a foreign country, I can assure you that there is personal choice to be part of a culture.

From what understand about globaization, it means you can eat sushi in America, bananas shipped from Paraguay in a day, and stuff like that. I think my explanation fail miserably, so let me try again. If you say in England, the main culture would be the English culture. Dates back hundreds of years, longer than American history. Same for a lot of countries. Now, America, there's no "root culture", to say. Everything is incorporated into what many call "American lifestyle". Very general ideas from all over. Nothing too specific from China or Italy or France. Blending together Depends on how you iinterpret culture. I may be wrong, but eh, that's how I see it.

I agree that America provides opportunity. My entire family and myself, have proven me that. But let me tell you that there are immigrants that go to UK, Canada and Australia mainly too. Not only America.
I can't tell you why people "insist" on coming here, everyone have their own different reasons. It is not that there is a "hidden" reason, as I said, each person has his/her own reasons. There are so many things to consider when you are leaving your country and choose your next destination such as, how much can you afford because that affects how are you going to get there (plane, bus, train, etc), where are you going to live (relatives, friends, etc); and there are so many other reasons! I believe most people go to America because for the third world countries such as Latin America, Central America and Mexico, it is the closest one to get there, and because of all the propaganda of America being the number 1 country. Other people can afford a little more, so they have the option to choose maybe UK, Austrialia, US,...it doesn't depend on money anymore, but maybe relatives, education (the institution they choose to study) or work.

I don't see as many immigrants from Europe nowadays, and the trend has shifted to Latin/South America. So my question comes up again, why America? Why not Canada, is it just because America blocks the passage? Why not someplace in the EU, where there's free healthcare and better welfare? These reasons I cannot answer for anyone. But I can conclude that more people still end up here than anywhere else. True that immigrants do end up in Canada, Australia, etc. but that's usually not a place where people start.

Well, I can tell you mine. My parents came to Peru after they got married because my grandmother's brother had a company established already there so they both came here to work. A couple of years later, I was born, so I was raised within a chinese family (my grandma was there, and most of my dad's family). That is how, I ended up speaking both languages because I learned spanish from school and chinese from home and family events... I went to a chinese-peruvian school, but then I changed high school at the age of 15 to a british school. That's where I basically learned my english. At the age of 17 I graduated from high school and I decided to come here (US) to study Graphic Arts because Education in Peru unfortunately SUCKS, and having "asian parents", money is a big issue. So I came here to the US, and my first semester at college was a whole process of adaptation: weather, big city AND PEOPLE. I can't explained to you how different are some (I don't want to generalize of course) Americans from others. When I am in class, there are two big groups. Americans and International Students. It is not that we don't speak to each other, the thing is that we don't hang out or try to get to know each other out of class hours. On the other hand, all the international students hang out together, koreans, russians, french, peruvian, chinese, etc; and me, living in the dorms, where everyone (at least on my floor) ARE americans, let me tell you that GIRLS really don't know ANYTHING ELSE apart from ENTERTAINMENT AND GUYS. It is not that I "hate" them, I do get along with a couple of them, including my roommate (who is from Long Island), but the type of conversations I have w/ them are completely different from my other friends. And it is not just "difference of culture" because I'm not referring to my "Peruvian friends", I'm talking about all the french, russian, korean, chinese ppl I've met here.

Well, welcome to the American lifestyle. That's generally what girls do here. I think the difference is that you're foreign, and trying to understand the US. The international students feel a sense of belonging when conversing, because they're all new. The Americans just go off into their own little pursuits. Whatever they do. I wouldn't expect many of them to converse to foreigners unless the foreigner speaks English well and looks like them.

Finally, I just want to make sure and make it clear that I'm not trying to attack or blame you, or I am not anti-Americans. I like being here, nobody is telling me that life is easy. What I'm trying to prove is that no country is perfect, not even AMERICA). I apologize if I offended somebody, I didn't mean it. And I also apologize for my bad english :$

I don't think America is perfect. It's far from it. I'm not a defender of America either, but I feel there's something more to this country than the negative image reflected upon us by foreign countries. I can't abandon the place I live.

applemac

04-29-2008, 06:16 PM

"Being in the center of the world", people would just assume others come to them. Why would one need to know where Zimbabwe is? Or Israel? I'm trying to speak a general sense. It's not what I believe in, but realistically, knowing where Zanzibar is is useless. Americans do acknowledge the rest of the world, but fail to point out where exactly the Russians or Spanish live. That's just the way history/geography is taught here. A lot of American pride in those textbooks. So you are saying you only have to learn the names, but where is it is not important? Huh... And why go to extremes countries such as Zanzibar or Israel, where some of them don't even know where is France.

Many people around me are bilingual or trilingual. But for the rest of the country, there isn't always that option. English is like the staple language of Western civilization. It's arrogant to only learn English in America and expect the world to follow, but they do. For whatever reason, they do all learn and speak English. So generally speaking, why learn anything else?
What do you mean by saying there isn't always that option for the rest of the world? :? Anyways I guess language is part of each personal culture...so I rather don't go into that...

Then, what I understand from globalization is that every one (not only the US) is in the process of mixing all together (economic, political, culturally, etc). That means that you can have people from all over the world in different countries and mix together.. nowadays you see a lot of mixtures between races, meaning that you can be from America but you mom is Puerto Rican and your dad Japanese. And yes, that is why you have mc donalds and sushi everywhere (not only in the US).

I don't see as many immigrants from Europe nowadays, and the trend has shifted to Latin/South America. So my question comes up again, why America? Why not Canada, is it just because America blocks the passage? Why not someplace in the EU, where there's free healthcare and better welfare? These reasons I cannot answer for anyone. But I can conclude that more people still end up here than anywhere else. True that immigrants do end up in Canada, Australia, etc. but that's usually not a place where people start.
Europeans don't go to America because they go to either Spain, Germany, England, New Zealand which is obviously more convenient rather to come to the US where is far and don't even use the same monetary system. Then you say, why America and not Canada? They do go to Canada.
Canada has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world,[9] driven by economic policy and family reunification. In 2001, 250,640 people immigrated to Canada. Newcomers settle mostly in the major urban areas of Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. By the 1990s and 2000s, a majority of Canada's immigrants came from Asia.[10] Canadian society is often depicted as being a very progressive, diverse, and multicultural. Accusing a person of racism in Canada is usually considered a serious slur.[ (Wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration#Global_statistics)
If you check there under "Global statistics", you'll see the top countries such as The European Union, Poland, Canada, etc and the US is also included, but not as the top one.

Finally, the reason why latin americans, specially Mexico goes to the US is because the US relies heavily on immigrants as the core of its domestic labor force. US's economy has increased thanks to immigration, let's face it, the immigrants do the job that americans would never do (such as agricultural and service sectors).
President Bush has proposed several new reforms to legitimize almost 3 million immigrants residing in the U.S. Perhaps the largest, and most controversial of all the reforms is a comprehensive regularization program aimed at allowing undocumented workers who meet certain criteria, eligibility to receive a "legal" status and potentially become U.S. citizens. A second track for immigration reform is the expansion of the temporary worker visa program. With an increase in temporary visas, immigrants will have the opportunity to migrate back and forth depending on labor demands, and do so legally. "Let me be clear about this," Mr. Fox said. "Regularization does not mean rewarding those who break the law. Regularization means that we give legal rights to people who are already contributing to this great nation."
Obviously there are no simple solutions to this delicate issue. Most leading authorities agree that the success of any immigration reforms will be determined on how well the U.S. and Mexico can put aside their own national interests and create a plan that is mutually beneficial. Repeatedly throughout their discussions, both Pres. Bush and Mr. Fox have emphasized the tremendous contributions Mexican immigrants have made to this country. Bush best summerized his confidence in future U.S.-Mexico cooperation when he said, "Mexico is an incredibly important part of U.S. foreign policy. It is our most important relationship, because we are neighbors, and neighbors must work together. And we do. So it is not only that every other country wants to go to the US. The US needs them too and looks for them.

Sukai

04-29-2008, 06:52 PM

It's simple.

History explains this question best.

If you look back, Americans were actually pitch-fork farmers fighting for their independence from the English who dominated nearly the entire world back then. I've always wonder how did the Americans get through all those problems like racial issues and oppression between the white and blacks.

Although they may have spoke words of wisdom and speak about interdependence but I've always been confused how does a messed up country like America can actually stay strong on the economic ends. I know for sure, the Americans who makes fun of the Latin Americans, Hispanic, Jews, Chinese, Blacks and etc, they just don't know how vital are those people being part of their population. If you talk about school, people have always been looking down or picking fights with Asians because there is always this "2nd-class" treatment for people who are not originally from America.

If that is so, the Native Americans are actually the Red Indians.. yes, the Native Indians you see running around with axes and bird feathers on their head. Then again, I believe some people would disagree since they are only Native people and they know nothing about running a country. Thus, these people are mostly excluded from the administrating the country.

After all that pre-explanation of how America came about, the main reason I should say is because America feels they owe a duty to the world since they own most of the deadliest war weaponry in the world. True, and there are so many speculations going on such as China is going to be more powerful than USA and that may just come true with the current flow of China's economic influence to the world.

So, at the moment, I think the world is still sparing USA for the limelight of being #1. However, in the near future when China finally overtakes USA as the most powerful economy on Earth, people will probably think otherwise when they name which country is most powerful in the world.

In my honest opinion, if you want to catch up and don't lose out in the future, go and pick up Chinese language. It is the 1# language spoken in the world in case you haven't notice.

:)

Akira

04-29-2008, 11:18 PM

In my honest opinion, if you want to catch up and don't lose out in the future, go and pick up Chinese language. It is the 1# language spoken in the world in case you haven't notice.
That is exactly what my parents say all the time! :excited: China is going to be the next great economic power. And everyone will look to them the way they look to the US now. Well it looks like US is heading into recession with too many transactions based on credit. Hopefully the US will catch on to whats been going on in other countries and not just focus on itself all the time.
My friend said. You know why US is not helping in tibet like they did in Iraq in the whole civil rights thing is that there is no oil in tibet. There is some certain truths in the statement. If you have seen documentarys on the bush administration they have had many secrets and cooperated with iraq leaders. Who have a huge share in the US economy. So its a matter of time before US will crumble

orangeman

04-30-2008, 01:45 AM

So you are saying you only have to learn the names, but where is it is not important? Huh... And why go to extremes countries such as Zanzibar or Israel, where some of them don't even know where is France.

I learn what I need in a good education, which includes geography. But I do not speak for those that don't. Zanzibar is just an example. I did refer to Russians and not knowing where Russia is.

What do you mean by saying there isn't always that option for the rest of the world? :? Anyways I guess language is part of each personal culture...so I rather don't go into that...

Country. I didn't say the world has to learn English, but as you can see, it is the main language taught and learned. For the average American living in suburbia and not expecting to leave America, why learn another language? What for? They do learn some simple phrases, but nothing in-depth.

Europeans don't go to America because they go to either Spain, Germany, England, New Zealand which is obviously more convenient rather to come to the US where is far and don't even use the same monetary system. Then you say, why America and not Canada? They do go to Canada.

I referred to Latin/South Americans, the new majority of immigrants. I do believe that moving to a place for monetary value has no merit. Up until the last year or so, the American economy has been good. Still is, because many people are still dining out, enjoying their time, living life normally. You can earn $40,000US, which converted to euros is less, but the standard of living would be the same in either country.

(Wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration#Global_statistics)
If you check there under "Global statistics", you'll see the top countries such as The European Union, Poland, Canada, etc and the US is also included, but not as the top one.

I don't think I said Americans were #1 in immigration. I just said that more people like to come here. For whatever reason, I don't know. But in that article, it does mention "push" and "pull" factors, which is relevant to the cause of immigration.

Finally, the reason why latin americans, specially Mexico goes to the US is because the US relies heavily on immigrants as the core of its domestic labor force. US's economy has increased thanks to immigration, let's face it, the immigrants do the job that americans would never do (such as agricultural and service sectors).

Americans want to keep many immigrants out, particularly those coming in illegally. The businesses like cheap labor, but for the citizen, it means low pay and bad benefits. Businesses like cheap labor, because profits are high and they can pay workers less. I would say that most Americans in cities don't do agricultural work obviously, but move to the Midwest or out of the city limits where all the grain/corn/foods is produced, you'll see good old American farmers/laborers. I don't think immigrant workers side well there. Service sectors are the sanitation workers, mailmen/women, maintenance workers correct? Immigrants don't do service sectors as much, because they probably need credentials for those jobs. Janitorial, custodian is more common.

I wouldn't say Americans rely on immigrants, but since it's already heavily used, we do need them. And from my observations, immigrants from Mexico come to America for opportunity. Anything here is more than what they can do back there. Family, education for their children, better jobs with better pay. That can be said for many immigrants that have come to the US.

So it is not only that every other country wants to go to the US. The US needs them too and looks for them.

The US needs immigrants, but we don't go recruiting. There's a lot of problems right now on immigration(illegal immigration), so more immigrants is the last thing we need, on top of other problems.

In my honest opinion, if you want to catch up and don't lose out in the future, go and pick up Chinese language. It is the 1# language spoken in the world in case you haven't notice.
By sheer number, there's already a billion people in China speaking Chinese. That's by the numbers. But out of that billion, whoever can afford to learn a second language, they learn English.